Aging Thailand takes toll on indebted households

[webfact]

Aging Thailand takes toll on indebted households
BY PAIRAT TEMPHAIROJANA

BANGKOK: -- Thai civil servant Supapan Pullbangyung spends just under half of her salary on caring for her 75-year-old father, who suffers from diabetes and dementia.

Hers is one of many Thai families looking after elderly relatives at a cost that countrywide adds up to just under a third of household income. The number of families facing similar problems will balloon as the population ages at a rate among the fastest in Southeast Asia.

Thailand's working-age population is expected to shrink by 11 percent by 2040. The rising cost of care is an additional burden to households struggling with record debt that is a drag on consumption and stunting the economy.

Full story: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-ageing-widerimage-idUSKCN0XV2QD


-- Reuters 2016-05-05

[Nicolas32]

Now its the old people fault what a day in Thailand it is today ..

[villagefarang]

The first step is to acknowledge that the problem exists.

[shirtless]

I wonder apart from talk how much action will be taken to solve the problem.

[Nicolas32]

I wonder apart from talk how much action will be taken to solve the problem. poni

Pointing fingers always does the trick in Thailand..

[noitom]

Thais culturally have this codependent financial philosophy. No generation is ever taught to be self sufficient. There is no financial planning for future. There is no financial responsibility In many Thai cases there is an insurancxe bet notr for security, but for personal gain on a family member;s death.

[Bluespunk]

"The rising cost of care is an additional burden to households struggling with record debt that is a drag on consumption and stunting the economy."

Old people, eh? What a bunch of selfish bastards. Why don't they just die or piss off to one of those nanny states.

[lovelomsak]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

[Confuscious]

"BANGKOK: -- Thai civil servant Supapan Pullbangyung spends just under half of her salary on caring for her 75-year-old father, who suffers from diabetes and dementia."

The solution is so easy.

Find a fahrang money tree who is more than willing to pay for the family and the extended family.
Many Thais have found happiness in their family by marrying a fahrang and go living on the fahrang expenses.

[dageurreotype]

"BANGKOK: -- Thai civil servant Supapan Pullbangyung spends just under half of her salary on caring for her 75-year-old father, who suffers from diabetes and dementia."

The solution is so easy.

Find a fahrang money tree who is more than willing to pay for the family and the extended family.

Many Thais have found happiness in their family by marrying a fahrang and go living on the fahrang expenses.

Orrrr, if she has any brothers, get them to chip in. The burden of responsibility of the welfare of aging parents falls solely on the daughters here.

[Jimbo2014]

Encourage immigration, create government policies to encourage children (day care centres, child feeding programs, good parental counseling, family values etc..)

[rkidlad]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

You can't really blame the younger generation for wanting this. It's a vicious cycle anyway. How can anyone save for the future if they have to pay for their parents?

Taking care of your parents is very commendable. I'd do the same if I had to. Fortunately, my parents saved for their futures and have a system that will take care of them also.

The rich and powerful have been pillaging the contry for too long. Thailand isn't a poor country. It's rich in resources. Change comes within. Thais have to fight for it and stop the 'Mai pen rai' attitude. If they don't mind taking care of the elderly then continue, that's fine also. It's up to them.

[Nasrullah]

Thailand's working-age population is expected to shrink by 11 percent by 2040. The rising cost of care is an additional burden to households struggling with record debt that is a

reason for growing tempers and violence....

@lovlomsak said........I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

Yes......internet and more awareness of the outside world fuels this need....

[jadee]

Following on from rkidlad's point about it being a vicious cycle, foreigners like us have to remember that the culture is completely different here. Thai parents seem fine with allowing their adult children to continue living with them. This saves a vast amount in term of rent or mortgage costs and all the ancillary costs that go along with that such as home insurance, property taxes, repairs, maintenance etc. In the west, people routinely spend a disproportionate amount of their income on rent or a mortgage whereas the person in the article 'Superpan' probably lives at her parent's home rent-free. Most young westerners in their 20's or 30's who live with their parents would contribute rent or other expenses, for example.

[scotchonrocks]

The generation dependency begins at conception. Actually prior to conception. The reason they marry and have kids is for their own social security. The more kids the more that milking them for support can go on. Have a few more wives and breed with them all, better for you - more income streams! Got it?

The kids are born and sleep with the parent(s) decreasing their tendency to be independent and over-bonding them into the family.

There is no accountability in modern Thailand. Perhaps in the agricultural times it worked ok. Not now.

There is a moral and cultural reason to support your parents but it does not make for better parents. The ageing population and indebtedness relationship is a growing one. Have now pay later (when you and your parents are old) is not a good idea.

Big problems ahead indeed.

[GAZZPA]

The first step is to acknowledge that the problem exists.

Second step in Thailand is to contradict it next week and do bugger all.

[smudger1951]

If the working age population is forecast to shrink 11% by 2040 this would imply the replacement birthrate is falling here like in Europe, Japan etc. In a society where daughters take care for mama & Papa I do wonder when a Thai lady can ever be free of the responsibility if they live into their 70's & 80's.

[cpofc]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion

Singapore was the first place where this problem reared its ugly head over 20 years ago.. This is a world problem, not just a Thai one. Humans are living longer. People have become materialistic.

Ancient cultures eroded and overtaken by modern Western style consumerism and the 'I want it all now' generation.

Australians are being warned almost daily that the Old Age Pension is unsustainable. The age of 'entitlment' is over. We are on the verge of a Dementia tsunami.

The Swedes, not so long ago, toyed with the idea of setting up nursing homes for their elderly in the LOS. They can't afford the ongoing and increasing costs anymore either.

China too, facing similar problems,

Maybe, for a start, instead of buying English football teams, Formula One Teams ad cars, Electoral Votes etc., some of the 'multis' in this country could start giving back some of their obscene wealth.

Makes you wonder where the world is headed.

A big (financial) Tip in China? Start investing in aged care nursing homes, it is the growth industry of the 21st Century.

The Maintenance of Parents Act (Cap 167B) states that any Singapore resident, 60 years old and above, who is unable to maintain himself adequately, is entitled to claim maintenance from their children, either in a lump-sum payment, or in the form of monthly allowances. Relatives or caregivers may apply for court action on a parent's behalf, with the parent’s consent.

In recognition that family disputes may not be handled effectively by the existing court structure, the Act put in place a Tribunal for the maintenance of parents (Tribunal). The Tribunal will comprise a minimum of three members, including a president with the qualifications of a district judge and is empowered to make and review maintenance orders. It will be administered by the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports, with conciliation officers reviewing every case and take on the role to mediate between the parties. If mediation fails, then the case will be heard at the Tribunal.

The amount of maintenance to be paid is decided by the Tribunal based on a set of criteria including: financial needs, earning capacity, expenses incurred as well as physical health of the parent and children. The maintenance claim may be dismissed if the children can prove that they were abused, neglected or abandoned by their parents when they were young.

Other provisions of the Act include:

-The child being sued has the right to make his siblings joint respondents even if they were not named in the parent's original claim.

- Any person who is found to be in contempt of the Tribunal will be liable on conviction to a fine not more than S$5000 or an imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months.

- Maintenance orders issued under the Act are to be enforced in the same manner that maintenance orders for wives and children are enforced under the Women’s Charter (Cap. 353).

- Only the basic amenities and physical needs of the applicant including shelter, food and clothing are provided for. The maintenance should not be linked to the applicant’s previous standard of living.

- Definition of children includes Illegitimate, adopted and step-children.

[lovelomsak]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

You can't really blame the younger generation for wanting this. It's a vicious cycle anyway. How can anyone save for the future if they have to pay for their parents?

Taking care of your parents is very commendable. I'd do the same if I had to. Fortunately, my parents saved for their futures and have a system that will take care of them also.

The rich and powerful have been pillaging the contry for too long. Thailand isn't a poor country. It's rich in resources. Change comes within. Thais have to fight for it and stop the 'Mai pen rai' attitude. If they don't mind taking care of the elderly then continue, that's fine also. It's up to them.

I feel your post shows how little you know about Thailand and its culture.And I can blame the young forgetting their roots and culture and sacfrifice their parents made.

The young for generations have taken care of the old. Traditionally the youngest daughter was given the main job. she would stay with the parents and take care of them,even after marriage. The elders you see today lived this culture and did take care of their parents. They expect the same from their children.The old have no safety net. All their income all their life after having children went to the children,nothing left to save. Poor parents did with out to give education and food and shelter to their children so when the parents got old the children could provide and take care of their parents with relative ease Instead the children now feel they are privileged and can leave that part of their culture behind them Shame on them.

My wife when I met her some days didnot eat so her children could eat. Now the children have everything because I am in the picture. Her son is at Rangsit university and when he graduates he will be set for life. He will have his own clinic,business,and other business,s we will help him with. I remind him about his mother,s sacrifices and tell him never,ever stop helping your mother.I tell him you had a full stomach well your mother went hungry.Do you never,ever forget what she did for you. And give back what was given to you.

Taking care of your parents is culture orientated not a one off commendable thing.

[elgordo38]

The first step is to acknowledge that the problem exists.

2nd step Soylent Green

[elgordo38]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

The whole world is transitioning. You have heard the term "odd man out" well in this case its "old man out" They will more than likely in the future have a designating who stays and who goes. Of course the rich will always have the winning number and no doubt access to miracle drugs that will keep them alive indefinitely. They might not be able to take it with them but with life extensions they sure may get to enjoy it more.

[Tomtomtom69]

Encourage immigration, create government policies to encourage children (day care centres, child feeding programs, good parental counseling, family values etc..)

Those would be good ideas in principle but unlikely to occur in practice for a while to come. For starters, immigration is politically sensitive, though a program aimed at attracting a small number of highly skilled foreigners that can create jobs and transfer technologies, thus allowing them to stay permanently and offering a streamlined path towards citizenship would be a good start, but it would be unlikely to attract a large number of applicants. Similarly, I reckon the government would impose rather strict criteria so overall it wouldn't be aimed so much at population stabilization but rather at contributing to GDP growth through foreign direct investment and propping up living standards. However, another approach could be something along the lines proposed by the governor of Shanghai a few years ago. He was considering a plan that would attract foreign professionals to live in Shanghai that would create an international city with a foreign population of around 5%. I don't think even he would have wanted it to be larger than this though, in order to keep social cohesion and allow immigrants to integrate into society. Therefore, a European style free-for-all is highly unlikely due to the massive problems it creates.

On the other hand, instilling good family values, the government providing "baby bonuses" for couples who have children and discouraging homosexuality, lesbianism and transgenderism would all help bring up Thailand's dangerously low birth rate of around 1.51 children per woman (according to the CIA world factbook) which is well below the 2.1 fertility rate needed for population stabilization in the long-term. Additionally, broken families due to drug and alcohol abuse, men having "kiks" (i.e. affairs with other girls) on the side, women marrying later or not at all to focus on their careers and those that do marry and have kids only having one or at most two children are all factors that contribute towards the low fertility rate seen in Thailand today. In fact, Thailand's fertility rate is lower than in many western countries and if something isn't done soon, it will become a rather old society long before it can ever hope to become rich. Similar to China.

[phoenixdoglover]

"BANGKOK: -- Thai civil servant Supapan Pullbangyung spends just under half of her salary on caring for her 75-year-old father, who suffers from diabetes and dementia."

The solution is so easy.

Find a fahrang money tree who is more than willing to pay for the family and the extended family.

Many Thais have found happiness in their family by marrying a fahrang and go living on the fahrang expenses.

Orrrr, if she has any brothers, get them to chip in. The burden of responsibility of the welfare of aging parents falls solely on the daughters here.

This.

My wife blew up at her sister the other day. Gave her a 10 minute emotional lecture.

When we were alone, I asked about it. My wife is youngest of 6 children. Her father is 83 years old, in poor health, gets 800 baht each month from the government. My wife sends 3,000 a month, and has been doing this for years. All the other siblings are hanging around waiting for him to expire, so they can grab the house or land.

Now that I am on the village scene occasionally, it was inferred that perhaps I could help one of the hangers-on with his self- imposed financial difficulties.

My wife exploded. I love her.

[Nicolas32]

"The rising cost of care is an additional burden to households struggling with record debt that is a drag on consumption and stunting the economy."

Old people, eh? What a bunch of selfish bastards. Why don't they just die or piss off to one of those nanny states.

or better yet hurry up and die so we can take over your saves you may of left ..

[Mook23]

Thais and money. I love it. Some of the best jokes I have ever heard involved Thais and money

[Ceruhe]

I want to say great news, "finally" Thailand has a real issue at hand that needs strong brains to come up with solutions, but since we all know how this country works....meep.

Now to my asshattery....

You know, I'm perfectly aware that parents rear their children and stuff and that it isn't always pretty, as for example the dude a couple posts up stating the mother didn't eat so her kids don't go hungry etc etc blabla....and how kids are to take care of their parents eventually. But...som nam na? Having children were your own selfish desires, it then becomes your responsibility to take care of them and still plan your live accordingly to get by on your own. Those kids will grow up and will have their own family to take care of and the cycle simply repeats. If you made it through life as long as you have, then decide to have kids and not having realised how humans work by then....by all means, life needs to teach you a lesson, as heartless as that sounds.

As humans we have different issues to work on due to our intelligence. Medicine has become a gift and a curse at the same time, living longer comes at expenses, nobody thought of how to cover for that? Get real. Societies are constantly changing, clinging to old traditions might not be a good choice anymore and needs to be revised, so there is no excuse for a culture to stick to the roots when it's not working anymore. Survival of the fittest has a distinctive purpose but as a collective we are fighting against that part of nature and start facing said consequences. Just like the crimes of the parents ought not to be the crimes of the children, likewise it ought not to be the childrens responsibility to take care of the parents descions. Life sucks for many, suck it up and work something out if you don't like it, it is "as simple as that".

I'm not even 30 yet but I'm already worrying about my future and I'm certainly not going to pop out some kids now with the intention that they will take care of me and make my worries go away. Fortunately I'm smarter than that and I can balance the cost benefits of having wife/kids with ~20 years of expenses and being locked down to some place because of the kids versus having a gf/wife but no kids versus staying single and having perfect mobility and opportunities, not to mention getting rid of yourself when nothing is working out is a lot easier then as well.

But well, what does it matter to me. I already know the world can be pretty amazing but at the same time humans are full of the deepest shit around making the world seem hideous to live in, when in reality, it could be so amazing to be a human and not be utterly ashamed of being one yourself. Just waiting for the majorities to get their head out of the ass and flip some damn tables and work stuff out "by priority" as slow as it may be, but seeing as we are still keeping religion and other detrimental things alive, I got no real hope to get out of my pessimisitc mindset for the rest of my life.

And to whoever is harping on those bloody pointless 2.1 birthrate numbers...it really doesn't matter. There are 7 billion of of maggost crawling around, there will be no shortage anytime soon. If a country actually "thins out and goes bye bye" then so be it, but immigration is a painfully easy solution to that, your "pure blood" whatever holds no value in that equation.

Not everybody needs to live, but everyone gets to die.

[GAZZPA]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

This is what the Thai government want them to do,, spend and increase domestic consumption. The American "dream" of greed has infected the whole world.

I think its a shame that Asia has not really developed its own style. Slowly it is just becoming the US day by day,,, big shopping malls, KFC, Macdonalds (junk food in general), sneakers, $300 sunglasses, iPhones, 4 wheel drives, etc,etc. It seems these things are considered a statement for a country to say "I have arrived" and like most Asian cultures rather then develop something themselves, something unique or something better, they just copy.

You just have to look at China and Thailand,, increasing household debt, wannabe attitude and a "hi so" hierarchy based upon what you own. Not a sniff of Buddhism really in how people really live,, sound familiar?

Shame because there are many interesting and beautiful cultures in this part of world, soon to be long forgotten. Instead just copy the USA,,, bizarre.

[stoneyboy]

If you neglect your citizens for decades what else can be expected.

Power and greed and corruptible seed I'm afraid.

You reap what you sow.

[GAZZPA]

I want to say great news, "finally" Thailand has a real issue at hand that needs strong brains to come up with solutions, but since we all know how this country works....meep.

Now to my asshattery....

You know, I'm perfectly aware that parents rear their children and stuff and that it isn't always pretty, as for example the dude a couple posts up stating the mother didn't eat so her kids don't go hungry etc etc blabla....and how kids are to take care of their parents eventually. But...som nam na? Having children were your own selfish desires, it then becomes your responsibility to take care of them and still plan your live accordingly to get by on your own. Those kids will grow up and will have their own family to take care of and the cycle simply repeats. If you made it through life as long as you have, then decide to have kids and not having realised how humans work by then....by all means, life needs to teach you a lesson, as heartless as that sounds.

As humans we have different issues to work on due to our intelligence. Medicine has become a gift and a curse at the same time, living longer comes at expenses, nobody thought of how to cover for that? Get real. Societies are constantly changing, clinging to old traditions might not be a good choice anymore and needs to be revised, so there is no excuse for a culture to stick to the roots when it's not working anymore. Survival of the fittest has a distinctive purpose but as a collective we are fighting against that part of nature and start facing said consequences. Just like the crimes of the parents ought not to be the crimes of the children, likewise it ought not to be the childrens responsibility to take care of the parents descions. Life sucks for many, suck it up and work something out if you don't like it, it is "as simple as that".

I'm not even 30 yet but I'm already worrying about my future and I'm certainly not going to pop out some kids now with the intention that they will take care of me and make my worries go away. Fortunately I'm smarter than that and I can balance the cost benefits of having wife/kids with ~20 years of expenses and being locked down to some place because of the kids versus having a gf/wife but no kids versus staying single and having perfect mobility and opportunities, not to mention getting rid of yourself when nothing is working out is a lot easier then as well.

But well, what does it matter to me. I already know the world can be pretty amazing but at the same time humans are full of the deepest shit around making the world seem hideous to live in, when in reality, it could be so amazing to be a human and not be utterly ashamed of being one yourself. Just waiting for the majorities to get their head out of the ass and flip some damn tables and work stuff out "by priority" as slow as it may be, but seeing as we are still keeping religion and other detrimental things alive, I got no real hope to get out of my pessimisitc mindset for the rest of my life.

And to whoever is harping on those bloody pointless 2.1 birthrate numbers...it really doesn't matter. There are 7 billion of of maggost crawling around, there will be no shortage anytime soon. If a country actually "thins out and goes bye bye" then so be it, but immigration is a painfully easy solution to that, your "pure blood" whatever holds no value in that equation.

Not everybody needs to live, but everyone gets to die.

Blimey, you need some help. (and i doubt I am going to give it)

Firstly, this is not the first generation of families who look after their elderly relatives, this is not a new thing for Thai culture (or many other cultures). The reason why its getting to become more of a problem is because people are living longer. Yes mostly due to science and our understanding of how to take care of ourselves, but what do you suggest? Do you suggest people get sick at 60 and say "Well its about time I died now to make it easier for everyone so I won't get any treatment", get real fella. If you want to be the first to volunteer please feel free, you will be alone in your crazy thinking mind you.

So, something positive for you. I have faith in human nature overall. We have a remarkable ability to overcome, innovate and thrive. Yes, we screw up a lot and we still lie to each other, steal from each other and even kill each other but overall the World is statistically becoming a safer place and most people are decent, kind and friendly.

People have the right to age, you included and we should respect and celebrate when someone lives to a ripe old age. They also have the right to be respected, they have lived a long time and are responsible for the freedom you enjoy today, so have some respect fella.

As for religion, well over 70% of the World believe in one form or another, so who are you to tell them not to? Don't get sucked into these idiots views who say that all people who believe in a religion are stupid, its clearly a pile of crap. There are millions of people smarter then the pair of us who believe there is a God. So, be open minded, let people decide for themselves. Unlike a lot of people I don't believe that religion holds the World back, in fact some religious teachings are actually how we, as humans SHOULD be behaving and treating one another.

You could apply your critical analysis in a more positive way and you might be surprised at how your view of the World and people change. Life is too short to suck it all up and depress yourself, this is a forum for debating but its all a bit of fun really, don't take it too seriously.

Below is a link to a load of old crap that was written in the 1960's, pretty much echoing some of your views today. It is considered nonsense now, so dont waste your time following that train of thought or you will be lost in history as someone who talked a load of crap.

In summary, elderly people need more care, attention and medical treatment then younger people. It is right that their family should support them in this, the same as it is right for a family to support a child, or a middle aged person. Just because someone is closer to the grave does not mean that they no longer matter...

Phew, there got it off my chest,,,

I hope you change your views and lose your "negative" view on the World sometime soon,, my advice, have a break from reading too much of this stuff, stop thinking too much and just enjoy your life for a while.

https://overpopulationisamyth.com/overpopulation-the-making-of-a-myth#Malthus_thought_doctors_shouldn-t_cure_diseases

[CGW]

I knew it would come to this. The young have changed the family traditions of Thailand. Their wanting all the trappings of western life,have placed them in the position where they will not take care of the old like generations before them. The old be neglected,uncared for,and sick.But the young people will drive a car,eat at KFC and wear the latest fashion.

This is what the Thai government want them to do,, spend and increase domestic consumption. The American "dream" of greed has infected the whole world.

I think its a shame that Asia has not really developed its own style. Slowly it is just becoming the US day by day,,, big shopping malls, KFC, Macdonalds (junk food in general), sneakers, $300 sunglasses, iPhones, 4 wheel drives, etc,etc. It seems these things are considered a statement for a country to say "I have arrived" and like most Asian cultures rather then develop something themselves, something unique or something better, they just copy.

You just have to look at China and Thailand,, increasing household debt, wannabe attitude and a "hi so" hierarchy based upon what you own. Not a sniff of Buddhism really in how people really live,, sound familiar?

Shame because there are many interesting and beautiful cultures in this part of world, soon to be long forgotten. Instead just copy the USA,,, bizarre.

It's called globalisation, its the New World order, great isn't it! Don't blame the Americans, Europe is just as guilty!