Thaksin Willing To Stand Trial

[VegasVic]

Taksin says he wants to come to stand trial, but does anybody really think the present military dictatorship ruling Thailand at the moment really want him to? I would think absolutely not. They do not want him to stand trial. They do not even want him back in Thailand. The reason is because they know they have no credible case against him and their own status is illegal anyway.

Outstanding post! Be careful though, lately it seems that stating the obvious on some of these threads will get an unruely mob after you. The very last thing that this current military regime wants is for Taksin to reenter the country, and they most certainly do not want to put him on trial as the international press would would have an absolute field day with the proverbial gang that couldn't shoot straight. A couple months back I felt that fall elections were a 80% likelyhood, now I think that it may be less than a 50% chance and as the summer wears on those odds are likely to diminish sadly enough. The ecomony is a key factor here, if the baht does not do an about face relativly soon and the economy continues to weaken then the possibility of another coup by years end may be more likely than elections.

[alexth]

If it is true, it might be a sign that Thaksin is still confident that he can buy the judiciary here, like he has done so many times previously.

And why wouldn't he? The competition is even much worser than he is and he's got more money than they do. Personally I would like to see him as a prime minister again, I'm getting tired of this new hungry junta with less brain than a drunken chicken

[ilyushin]

He should be standing in front of a firing squad.

[John K]

Although I would like this post to be a calculated prediction, this one is more of a gut feeling. A few things that I don’t know leave me without enough information to formulate. They would be knowing how much time it will take before this actually gets to trial. There is a seemingly endless list of prerequisites that the Thais must deal with. How many are caused by the TRT sympathizers or have been deliberately placed there by the previous administration I don’t know. One thing is certain is they do add a lot of time to the process.

However assuming all this will come to a head before the start of the elections I feel there will be a few assassination attempts, or should I say a few more. I suspect assassination targets would be judges, lawyers, and investigators who refused bribes.

On one side there is Thaksin who will do anything and I do mean anything to win. I am still amazed how low he went, as it was much lower than even my deepest imagination. I still am having a difficult time fathoming it.

On the other side Thailand’s judges have been “encouraged by you know who” to be fair and to do the right thing. So essentially the battle between good and evil will be more than superficial.

Thaksin will stand trial either in person or absentia. If he chooses not to come that will completely ruin the credibility of anyone associated with him. The fallout is if Thaksin is in Thailand he will need to be locked down so as not to tamper with the trial.

In the middle is the junta that for the most part wants to do what is right but is beginning to show a little wear and tear. Some of the censorship issues come from a military mentality. I am hopeful common sense on censorship will prevail when the new government is seated. Much of the censorship seems to be coming from the Minister of culture who has been increasingly showing she is out of touch with reality. It at least appear likely to me some of the censorship the junta may want is being funneled through the Ministry of culture. However internet censoring can be quickly nullified at least by signing up for email services that deposit what you want directly into you email inbox. Attempts to control email would result in a very severe self inflicted wound.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd like to see the debate return to the debate on the topic, rather than the debate on the debaters, even though I'm sure that some of them are master debaters.

"Steven"

[Pink Mist]

Lawyer: Thaksin willing to stand trial

Good.

Me thinks his lawyer speaks with forked tongue

modus opperandi for lawyer

[Ijustwannateach]

A fairly large amount of extraneous material has been removed. I would like to say that I appreciate various posters who attempted to help the thread get back on track, but who were thwarted along with me. As the topic is an important one, I have re-opened it. In regard to further commentary on the debaters rather than the topic, I will shoot first and ask questions later- you can certainly expect warnings and holidays.

"Steven"

[sriracha john]

Thank you for that, IJWT...

Returning to the topic...

This looks to be the test of Thaksin's sincerity rexpressed in the OP regarding his wllingness to stand trial as well as the CNS willingness to allow him to return:

Thaksin faces criminal charges

( The specifics of the charges are here:

Thaksin Linked To Wife's Suspect Land Deal Under Investigation )

Noppadon Pattama, the Shinawatra family's legal adviser, said once the court accepts the case, the deposed prime minister wants to return and fight the charges. Mr Noppadol called on the CNS to give Mr Thaksin the green light to return. ''Please give him a chance to fight this case. Thai law has no power to incarcerate Mr Thaksin and the CNS should consider this carefully,'' said Mr Noppadon.

- Bangkok Post

Edited May 14, 2007 by sriracha john

[John K]

I am confused, is Thaksin allowed to come back or not at the time of his choosing?

[John K]

Thaksin hits back at junta

Deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra claims he has been treated unfairly by the junta and that graft charges against his family were "launched illegally".

In a video clip posted on www.hi-thaksin.org on Sunday, Thaksin slammed the military for accusing him and family members of corruption - regardless of the legal process.

Although there was "no evidence", the junta and its military-installed agencies had tried every channel to make his family appear guilty of graft, he said.

"My family and I have suffered [from the unfair charges,] although I had dedicated myself to serve the whole nation and His Majesty the King," Thaksin said.

However, the good thing was that many people had sympathy for his family, which he accepted with gratitude, he said.

"I have done nothing wrong," Thaksin insisted.

As the country was "in despair and far from reconciliation" he would extend his stay abroad for some more time because he did not want to be another part of the problem, he said.

Thaksin said Thailand's credibility in the world had fallen due to the absence of a democratic government.

"Whenever I meet foreign investors, I tell them to be patient about the situation in Thailand," he said.

The Kingdom was highly competitive as its people were skilful and diligent, he said. "When the government returns to democratic rule, Thailand will rise again."

[ColPyat]

I am confused, is Thaksin allowed to come back or not at the time of his choosing?

After reading all these months the news such a question...

No, Thaksin is not allowed to come back presently. He has asked several times, but the government said that they don't want to see him back (at least until elections are over).

[Tony Clifton]

"My family and I have suffered [from the unfair charges,] although I had dedicated myself to serve the whole nation and His Majesty the King," Thaksin said.

Funny , he did not intervene did he?

treated unfairly by the junta and that graft charges against his family were "launched illegally".

By ''illegally'', surely he means a justice system that used to work HIS way, pre-April 2006.

"I have done nothing wrong," Thaksin insisted.

he would extend his stay abroad for some more time because he did not want to be another part of the problem, he said.

Excluding himself as usual

The Kingdom was highly competitive as its people were skilful and diligent

[John K]

I am confused, is Thaksin allowed to come back or not at the time of his choosing?

After reading all these months the news such a question...

No, Thaksin is not allowed to come back presently. He has asked several times, but the government said that they don't want to see him back (at least until elections are over).

It all depends on who you listen to. If you listen to Thaksin he makes it sound like it is his choice. If you listen to the PM he says he does not want him back but does not say he is banned. If he did say he was banned then I missed it. If you listen to the junta, they don’t want him back unless he is in jail. If you listen to Noppadon it can be off or on depending on who is paying him.

[sriracha john]

Charges could get Thaksin back to Thailand

BANGKOK: The Thai government's top anti-corruption body has recommended criminal charges against former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a move that could get him back to Thailand for the first time since his ouster.

Lawyers for Thaksin, in exile since September after he was pushed him from power in what it said was a drive to root out corruption, said the billionaire former leader would return to fight in court if the case goes ahead.

The Assets Examination Committee ruled that Thaksin and his wife Pojaman should face charges over what it said was an illegal land deal in 2003.

"We agreed to charge both of them," committee spokesman Sak Korseangruang said. It was not immediately clear if prosecutors would take action.

"If the Attoney General's Office files the case with court and the court orders the defendant to stand trial, then Thaksin will voluntarily return to Thailand," the former prime minister's lawyer Noppadon Pattama said.

"There would be no need to issue an arrest warrant," he told AFP. "We are fully prepared to fight this case."

The controversy concerns five hectares of land in central Bangkok that Thaksin's wife bought for 23 million dollars in 2003 from a Bank of Thailand-run fund.

Investigators on the committee ruled that the transaction was illegal because Thaksin, as head of government, technically oversaw the fund and its finances, making the sale a conflict of interest.

Noppadon insisted that Thaksin had done nothing illegal in the sale.

"The bidding was transparent, and prime minister Thaksin did not abuse his power or interfere," the lawyer said.

On Monday, his Thaksin's wife pleaded innocent to charges of tax evasion and perjury in a separate case stemming from an earlier sale of Shin Corp shares in 1997, which could land her and two others in prison.

Thaksin has remained in exile since the coup, travelling the world and sometimes attracting international headlines.

His most audacious move has been his surprise bid to buy English Premier League football club Manchester City in a deal reportedly worth 215 million dollars.

- AFP

[sriracha john]

Thaksin return for trial up to government, CNS

BANGKOK – Whether or not former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra can return to Thailand to face criminal charges in court will be decided by the Surayud government and the Council for National Security, according to the chairman of the asset examiners subcommittee.

Udom Fuengfung, chairman of the subcommittee under the Asset Examination Committee said that the matter simply is not the mandate of the AEC, which had probed the land purchase scandal surrounding Mr. Thaksin and his wife, Pojaman.

On Monday the subcommittee is scheduled to submit to the AEC an affidavit of the charges involving the Bt772 million sale of land in Bangkok's Ratchadaphisek area from the Office of the Financial Institutes Development Fund to the wife of the then prime minister.

The former prime minister has been accused of abusing his power by being party to buying the land at a favourable price.

The AEC is to forward the charges in writing to the Supreme Court which hears criminal lawsuits against persons attached to political posts.

Court trials could mean that Mr. Thaksin may be subpoenaed along with Pojaman to testify, Mr. Udom said.

- MCOT

[ColPyat]

Thaksin return for trial up to government, CNS

BANGKOK – Whether or not former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra can return to Thailand to face criminal charges in court will be decided by the Surayud government and the Council for National Security, according to the chairman of the asset examiners subcommittee.

Not allowing Thaksin back to defend himself in person at court is preparing a mistrial. No way that such a trial or a possible conviction is ever going to be acceptable for the rest of the world.

[Tony Clifton]

Thaksin return for trial up to government, CNS

BANGKOK – Whether or not former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra can return to Thailand to face criminal charges in court will be decided by the Surayud government and the Council for National Security, according to the chairman of the asset examiners subcommittee.

Not allowing Thaksin back to defend himself in person at court is preparing a mistrial. No way that such a trial or a possible conviction is ever going to be acceptable for the rest of the world.

He was no stranger to running a country of 60 some million by teleconference, I don't think he would see a problem with defending himself the same way. As for turning himself in IF convicted...

[ColPyat]

He was no stranger to running a country of 60 some million by teleconference, I don't think he would see a problem with defending himself the same way. As for turning himself in IF convicted...

Due process seems to be an alien concept for you.

If you want to have a water tight case, then you have to adhere to the letter of the law. And that states that a defendant is to be allowed to defend himself in person in he wishes to. If he is hindered in this, a fair trial is simply not possible, and any such trial is a waste of time.

[gummy]

Let us assume he does go on trial and, whether or not he attends, is convicted. For the powers that be this could well be very beneficial as a secondary irritant for Toxin, possibly more upsetting for him than the actual conviction, insofar as , most countries I understand including US, UK and Australia will refuse him a VISA on the grounds of having a recent criminal conviction. Thus he will be persona non grata in the UK where he/his wife have just bought a house and he is currently negotiating to purchase Man City. Now that really would be inconvienient for him.

There is always more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

[ColPyat]

Let us assume he does go on trial and, whether or not he attends, is convicted.

When he is not allowed to attend his trial by the government, this would be a clear case for granting Thaksin political asylum in any western country. A conviction from such a trial in absentia will never be accepted by any western country.

[blaze]

I can't see the junta wanting to wrap this trial up any time soon. As soon as the party issue and the trial is over - especially if Thaksin is found guilty- the attention of the public will drift- so far the media has done a very good job of keeping the public's attention off the shortcomings- including legitimacy- of the regime and focused on Thaksin.

And with no more Thaksin to entertain the public - then the focus will almost certainly shift to the current regime- the current problems facing Thailand. That could be a real problem for the junta.

[gummy]

Let us assume he does go on trial and, whether or not he attends, is convicted.

When he is not allowed to attend his trial by the government, this would be a clear case for granting Thaksin political asylum in any western country. A conviction from such a trial in absentia will never be accepted by any western country.

He would only be granted political asylum if he could show that by being returned to his own country he would be or possibly be physically harmed. However the point is no one has said yet that he can not return. Indeed he has not attempted to enter the country and been refused permission has he?. I suspect that he will indeed be suggested to return and if he is innocent of all charges he will only be to pleased to return to defend himself. However at this point in time he is innocent as he has not been proven guilty at any trial.

Further there has been many an example in the past of prominent people being convicted in abstentia.

[ColPyat]

He would only be granted political asylum if he could show that by being returned to his own country he would be or possibly be physically harmed. However the point is no one has said yet that he can not return. Indeed he has not attempted to enter the country and been refused permission has he?. I suspect that he will indeed be suggested to return and if he is innocent of all charges he will only be to pleased to return to defend himself. However at this point in time he is innocent as he has not been proven guilty at any trial.

Further there has been many an example in the past of prominent people being convicted in abstentia.

He has asked, as reported, several times to return, and has been told that he shouldn't.

If he is not allowed to attend his own trial, as the discussion here goes, then this does not fulfill what comprises a fair trial, and such a trial will not be acceptable according to western standards, hence a clear case for political asylum.

The Junta is in a fix. They know that a Thaksin trial with him attending will cause serious social disturbances, especially if they have not a clear case (and that means legally, and not what many people are convinced of), but by avoiding those disturbances and not allowing him to attend - they have no acceptable trial.

They may convict him in absentia, and at the same time create something that he definitely is not - a symbol for democracy.

They should have foreseen such eventualities before making a coup.

[gummy]

He would only be granted political asylum if he could show that by being returned to his own country he would be or possibly be physically harmed. However the point is no one has said yet that he can not return. Indeed he has not attempted to enter the country and been refused permission has he?. I suspect that he will indeed be suggested to return and if he is innocent of all charges he will only be to pleased to return to defend himself. However at this point in time he is innocent as he has not been proven guilty at any trial.

Further there has been many an example in the past of prominent people being convicted in abstentia.

He has asked, as reported, several times to return, and has been told that he shouldn't.

If he is not allowed to attend his own trial, as the discussion here goes, then this does not fulfill what comprises a fair trial, and such a trial will not be acceptable according to western standards, hence a clear case for political asylum.

The Junta is in a fix. They know that a Thaksin trial with him attending will cause serious social disturbances, especially if they have not a clear case (and that means legally, and not what many people are convinced of), but by avoiding those disturbances and not allowing him to attend - they have no acceptable trial.

They may convict him in absentia, and at the same time create something that he definitely is not - a symbol for democracy.

They should have foreseen such eventualities before making a coup.

Well time will tell, who knows perhaps Thaksin will have a heart attack and be gone, that will alleviate many problems for some people.

His current suspected ploy is that by becoming a large investor in a football club this may provide some sort of leverage for him being granted ILR and perhaps future citizenship. He should speak to his good friend Mr Al Fayad who has still not acheived that goal irrespective of his millions, owning Harrods and clear and continuing support he has shown for the UK over many many years, which in my opinion and in his case, seems most unfair.

On the other hand to proclaim that he may not have a fair trial by Western standards is somewhat incorrect and tends to cloud the issue, as currently there are trials currently ongoing that in the eyes of nearly all of the world, except US and the UK they are unfair, so perhaps not all Western governments will be as symphathetic to Thaksins plight as you appear to suggest and hence as I said previously, prove to be a secondary irritant.

[ColPyat]

On the other hand to proclaim that he may not have a fair trial by Western standards is somewhat incorrect and tends to cloud the issue, as currently there are trials currently ongoing that in the eyes of nearly all of the world, except US and the UK they are unfair, so perhaps not all Western governments will be as symphathetic to Thaksins plight as you appear to suggest and hence as I said previously, prove to be a secondary irritant.

True, but as long as there cannot be proof of a connection between Thaksin and Islamic terrorism, there will be no danger that an unfair trial of Thaksin will not be seen as such.

[Plus]

Whatever trials might commence, it will be likely be after the new Constitution is adopted and possibly even after the elections.

What is he personally going to be charged so far? Helping his wife to buy Ratchada land? All the tax cases do not involve him personally at all.

[ColPyat]

What is he personally going to be charged so far? Helping his wife to buy Ratchada land? All the tax cases do not involve him personally at all.

Nothing, so far.

Why then the coup?

[Old Man River]

What is he personally going to be charged so far? Helping his wife to buy Ratchada land? All the tax cases do not involve him personally at all.

Nothing, so far.

Why then the coup?

Why ask a question when you already know the answer and you know it can't be discussed here?

[ilyushin]

Thaksin had 5 yrs to place all his prime people into slots to cover his ass. To make a quick case and charge(s)against him would only be to his benefit. First remove the Thaksin supporters and people on the payroll and get a solid charge(s) against him. He covered his tracks very well. You shoot and miss , he gets off. Fire the right shot at the right time and you score. Wonder what Gen. Sonthi is considering to protect himself after retirement? He will not be commander or CNS leader after Sept 07. He must build a solid defense if Thaksin returns along with a country that celebrated the removeal of Doc Tox with flowers and food for the troops. Slow with small bites is a better way to take Thaksin down for good. Removed was the biggest task, now keeping him at bay is politics.

[ColPyat]

Why ask a question when you already know the answer and you know it can't be discussed here?

To show the futility of these ridiculous debates here. Some here should ask themselves those questions before taking sides.