Teak Logs Available

[JungleBiker]

How much is the stuff, or what does the cost work out per tree ?

How long does it take to produce, how long after the 5 years do you cut the tree and harvest it ?

I think I read your website about this, it mentioned the rainforest project anyhow.

What is the difference between the 2 tree types mentioned as being best or only types to use.

Hi Nawtilus,

About the price of the CA kits and application service - you had better ask Touchwood because their prices (in Thailand) may not be the same as my prices (in Laos).

The 5-year age is an estimate - it really depends on tree size - the smallest size suitable for treatment being DBH 10cm or about 32cm circumference at 137 cm above ground level. A well grown 3 year old tree could reach this size, but usually you are looking at 5 - 6 years to reach this size. The trees can be harvested 2 years after treatment.

You didn't read it at my web site because its still under construction! You can read something at www.cultivatedagarwood.com and also follow the links from there.

I am not sure what two tree types are you talking about... Perhaps you mean Aquilaria species and Gyrinops species? Mostly here in Laos people are groing the species Aquilaria crassna, perhaps the same is true in Thailand, I am not sure, but Touchwood may be able to tell you. Many people do not know what species they are growing. They just refer to them as "mai kritsana" (in Thai) and they can all be induced to produce resin.

Cheers,

JungleBiker.

[JungleBiker]

How much is the stuff, or what does the cost work out per tree ?

Hi Nawtilus,

Just for your information, total cost here in Laos for treating a small sized tree would be about US$20 including the booster treatment one year after the first treatment. Two years after the first treatment is applied you could expect to harvest at least 200 grams of agarwood suitable for selling as chips currently worth US$1/gram, though at retail level the price can be much higher than this - see: www.scentedmountain.com where agarwood chips using the CA Kit treatment are being sold. In addition you could also harvest an amount of wood suitable for extracting oil and the residue from that could be then used to make incense - the value of this additional wood (besides the chips) would be about US$50, so you could expect to get at least US$250 from your tree. Also FYI, (you didn't ask, but just in case you don't already know) trees are normally planted 3m x 3m.

Cheers,

Eddie.

[Nawtilus]

Thanks JB, this is the site I got some info from...

http://forestpathology.coafes.umn.edu/agarwood.htm

Do you know much about the costs of production overall and income side of things for various sized plantations, not per kilo or whatever. But say for how many trees per rai and the post from SaibeyMai above, does what he has done make sense in that the agarwood can grow as well without problem under the teak canopy and the teak trees will not be affected in their growth and quality wood production in any way ??

Thanks for the input by the way.

[sibeymai]

The English version of the Thai name is "kritsana" or "krissana". Thanks LINGLING for the Thai script.

Inoculation can be done on trees which have reached 10cm DBH, regardless of age, but normally 4-5 year old trees will be around this size. Inoculation of younger trees can be done at any age but less than 10cm DBH may result in the trunk being weakened due to the inoculation process and besides that, the volume of timber in the trunk which can be converted into agarwood is smaller.

Harvest is best no more tha 2 years after inoculation. Any longer and the tree starts to convert the affected timber back into ordinary wood. This accounts for why some processes appear to be ineffective as a tree which is not repeatedly inoculated will eventually reverse the effects of the inoculation. About 2 years is optimum while an inoculated tree after 5 years may have no agarwood content at all.

To answer NAWTILUS, yes, it is "hit and miss" in nature with around 7% of natives producing agarwood and this in old growth forest trees which may be 50 years old or more. The inloculation technice produces agarwood in upwards of 99% of trees. I've seem the Minessota professor's research first hand and even they were impressed with the results achieved here in Thailand.

LOOM, as for buying agarwood, you can find any amount in nurseries around Khao Yai national park. Depending on size, about 10Bt for 50cm up to 20/25Bt for 1m or more. A good price fpr around 1m would be 15Bt. Seems plentiful in Prachin Buri province. It's not too difficult to grow. Likes plenty of water so be prepared to do some watering December-April. Outside that time it shoudl be ok from rainfall. Any nursery stock needs to be given gradual direct sunlight over 1 month prior to being planted otherwise the full sun on planting is too much shock. They don't like being flooded during the first 3 months either, but generally after that will stand being in sodden soil for up to a week.

Regarding harvest, agarwood is covered by the same CITES restrictions as teak...you can not export the log without CITES documents. This is a way off for me now but I understand the process is when the trees are about 5 years old go to the Royal Forest Dept and they will survey your trees as being plantation grown. Then you are able to harvest how ever many trees your were surveyed for. At harvest time you'll also need permits from the relevant local authorities to transport the logs. If whoever buys your logs wants to export them, the documents you have from the Thai authorities should permit the shipper to obtain the necessary CITES documents for export.

To FRANCIS MAUBE, no problems with creepers, but should this happen it's simple enough to cut them off at ground level. Once dead they pose no problem for a growing tree. Worse case scenario if persistent..a carefully applied narrow spectrum herbicide should have the desired effect without posing a risk to the trees. Fo bi-culture as I have done, by the time the agarwood is harvested at 8 years I think the teak canopy will prevent another crop of agarwood. I'll be looking for something which will grow well under the teak. Someone mentioned to me ginseng would be good, but I have not researched.

[Francis Maube]

Thanks for the advice. We eventually resorted to the manual method. It is actually quite manageable if the weeds are cut on a regular basis. For herbicide, I'll try to use use only as an absolute last resort.

[sibeymai]

good to hear Francis. I too resort to the manual method. Last month had to bring the wife's family from upcountry for a week to cut the grass and weeds. They grew like crazy after initial planting with bare soil, higher than the trees in most places. But now having been cut the dead material seems to be doing a good job of preventing regrowth, along with the fact of the dry season arriving early. Rather pay the wife's family than some chemical company, not to mention the environmental aspects. Unfortunately it doesn't stop my neighbour from using herbicide on his undergrowth....then his missus complains to my missus about burning off the tall grass....because burning is bad for the environment. Two faced bloody liars...they we're just worrying she'd set fire to their eucalyptus trees.

Edited November 20, 2006 by sibeymai

[JungleBiker]

Thanks JB, this is the site I got some info from...

http://forestpathology.coafes.umn.edu/agarwood.htm

Do you know much about the costs of production overall and income side of things for various sized plantations, not per kilo or whatever. But say for how many trees per rai and the post from SaibeyMai above, does what he has done make sense in that the agarwood can grow as well without problem under the teak canopy and the teak trees will not be affected in their growth and quality wood production in any way ??

Thanks for the input by the way.

Hi Nawtilus, Sorry I don't have any costings for a plantation, but as I mentioned you can plant 3 x 3m = nearly 1,000 trees/ha (6.25 rai = 1 ha) and Sibeymai gives you seedling costs below. Then you have soil preparation, planting, weeding, fertilzers, etc.

I understand agarwood enjoys some shade when small, but i thought it required sun after that. It would largely depend on the distance between the teak tree rows. I don't think Sibeymai has mentioned the planting distances for his teak and agarwood trees..?

[sibeymai]

I've planted alternating rows with each species row spaced at 4 metres (teak -> 2m agarwood -> 2m teak etc.). Patterned so that in the middle of 4 teak trees there is an agarwood tree, or in the middle of 4 agarwood trees is a teak tree, whichever way you want to look at it. As I mentioned before, the agarwood only needs enough roon to get to 8 years max. then it's harvested. I thought 4 metre spacing was minimum for the remaining teak to get to 20 years.

Edited November 20, 2006 by sibeymai

[JungleBiker]

good to hear Francis. I too resort to the manual method. Last month had to bring the wife's family from upcountry for a week to cut the grass and weeds. They grew like crazy after initial planting with bare soil, higher than the trees in most places. But now having been cut the dead material seems to be doing a good job of preventing regrowth, along with the fact of the dry season arriving early. Rather pay the wife's family than some chemical company, not to mention the environmental aspects. Unfortunately it doesn't stop my neighbour from using herbicide on his undergrowth....then his missus complains to my missus about burning off the tall grass....because burning is bad for the environment. Two faced bloody liars...they we're just worrying she'd set fire to their eucalyptus trees.

Hi Sibeymai,

I don't think your climate is suited to ginseng. It's not really a tropical plant - I think it likes cold winters.

For weed control, next time I'd suggest planting a legume cover crop before planting your trees - it will also fix nitrogen to help improve soil fertility. A forage legume like Stylo might be good. It will not tolerate much shade, but then you will not have much shade to start with and then when you do have shade you won't have so much of a problem with weeds anyway.

I think you are being a little hard on your neighbour... if the herbicide is Round-up (glyphosate) that's not really going to do much harm to the environment. Other herbicides may be a different story.

Burning can be a nuisance for other people depending on which way the wind is blowing and it does seem a pity to destroy all that organic matter that could help improve the soil (assuming the weeds have been cut down).

Can I ask where did you see the results of the Minnesota University's trials? Also what is the plant spacing of your teak and agarwood trees? Many thanks.

[JungleBiker]

I've planted alternating rows with each species row spaced at 4 metres (teak -> 2m agarwood -> 2m teak etc.). Patterned so that in the middle of 4 teak trees there is an agarwood tree, or in the middle of 4 agarwood trees is a teak tree, whichever way you want to look at it. As I mentioned before, the agarwood only needs enough roon to get to 8 years max. then it's harvested. I thought 4 metre spacing was minimum for the remaining teak to get to 20 years.

Ah sorry... you provided the planting distances while I was writing my message off line. Sorry about that! Thanks.

[JungleBiker]

I've planted alternating rows with each species row spaced at 4 metres (teak -> 2m agarwood -> 2m teak etc.). Patterned so that in the middle of 4 teak trees there is an agarwood tree, or in the middle of 4 agarwood trees is a teak tree, whichever way you want to look at it. As I mentioned before, the agarwood only needs enough roon to get to 8 years max. then it's harvested. I thought 4 metre spacing was minimum for the remaining teak to get to 20 years.

Here is some info from a project in Laos about agarwood..

Quote: Mai Ked Sa Na prefers shady conditions in the first years of

establishment with up to 60% shade required for good

growth. If there is too much sunlight, the leaves of young

seedlings will turn yellow and the growth will decrease and/

or the seedlings die. At later stages, trees of Ked Sa Na

prefer more light.

Ked Sa Na should be planted in sloping lands with good

drainage and no water logging under shade from a nurse

crop, for example Acacia mangium (Mai Ka Thin The Pha)

planted on 6 x 3 m (6 meters between the planting rows and

3 m in the row between seedlings). At a height of 2 to 3 m

of the Mai Ka Thin The Pha trees, Ked Sa Na seedlings are

planted under Mai Ka Thin The Pha trees with a distance

of 2 m. It is often necessary to cut some of the bigger Mai

Ka Thin The Pha trees.

Plantations can also be established under remaining trees in

open, secondary forests. Lines need to be prepared and

cleared of remaining vegetation with a width of 2-3 m, and

10 to 15 m between the lines. The Ked Sa Na seedlings are

then planted with 2 m distance in the line.

Single tree planting around houses or in home-gardens is

also possible.

Soil preparation can be done by strip ploughing in March or

April and followed by harrowing. Another method is digging

of planting holes in May or June just before planting.

During transportation to the planting site the seedlings should

be covered by a shade-net to prevent overheating and drying

out.

In areas with heavy growth of weeds, intensive manual

weeding is required before planting and several times during

the first 2-3 years to promote the growth of seedlings.

Fertiliser should be applied first time during planting and

second time during the rainy season, 3 months after planting.

In the second year another application is given.

A firebreak is necessary to make if planting in secondary

forests is done and often has much and tall weed, which can

catch fire.

Ked Sa Na seedlings require good protection against cattle

and buffaloes. The leaves are eaten by them. Replacement

planting is done after 1 year of planting. It also necessary to

protect plantations against theft of seedlings and trees, and

planting close to human settlements is recommended. End Quote

I'd be a bit concerned that your teak trees might provide too much shade later on. But there is only one way to find out...!

[sibeymai]

Hi JB, when you say "fix nitrogen" do you mean raise or lower it ? Some one once made a comment that the agarwood leaves were looking a little pale and this was due to lack of nitrogen. If this were true would a legume cover crop help this ?

I was at Thai site when the professors did their 1 year field trial assessment in September.

[JungleBiker]

Hi JB, when you say "fix nitrogen" do you mean raise or lower it ? Some one once made a comment that the agarwood leaves were looking a little pale and this was due to lack of nitrogen. If this were true would a legume cover crop help this ?

I was at Thai site when the professors did their 1 year field trial assessment in September.

Hi Sibeymai,

Re: "Fix nitrogen" - Legumes host Rhizobium bacteria inside nodules on their roots. These bacteria can convert nitrogen from the air in the soil into nitrogen compounds that can be utilised by plants. So yes, growing a legume could provide your trees with more nitrogen. About 80% of the Earth's atmosphere is Nitrogen (N). It is estimated that legumes can fix the equivalent of 100 - 300 kg of N per hectare per year. Current price of N is about US$1 per kg, so that's a significant contribution to your land. In the meantime you might consider applying Urea fertilizer (46% N) to your trees, but it's best done during the rainy season, unless you have irrigation in which case it's best mixed with the water appply (it dissolves in water) - you could use a simple venturi system available from Global. This would suck the urea solution from a barrel or tank into your irrigation pipe. (Don't mix the urea into your pond!).

Some more questions for you..

How old are your trees now?

Where exactly did you see the trials in Thailand - I would like to go and see them myself one day.

Are you by any chance linked with Touchwood or Equitech?

[sibeymai]

Hello JB,

thanks for the information about nitrogen. Will certainly look into establishing a ground cover.

As this isn't a strictly commercial plantation I accept that growing conditions are not going to be optimum for either the teak or the agarwood, a compromise at best. They'll just have to do as well as they can within the limitations of the site. As you say, time will tell. Given the inherant nature of trees to strive for maximum sunlight it's arguable that the teak canopy may actually accelerate the height of the agarwood. Mind you, with the teak growing at 2m plus a year the agarwood will have a hard time keeping up.

I recall trials in Australia where opaque tubing was placed around saplings which caused significant increase in height as the tree attempted to clear the top of the tube and reach clear sunlight.

The agarwood trial is at Prachantakam in Pratchin Buri province. If you come to Thailand a visit should be no problem.

I have connections with both Touchwood and Equitech.

[Loom]

Thanks for the input Francis and Sibeymai. We're still considering options for "landscaping" on a small homestead and I'm thinking in terms of growing a small forest surrounding living area. Land was formerly used for growing rice and soybeans but infilled with topsoil for a small development by previous owner. Pretty much a clean slate currently. Irrigation streams run adjacent to the plot and water table is about 2-3m down. We're still working out a plan for the final grade and house siting but want to start growing as soon as that's done.

[Francis Maube]

Loom, just a though, if growing a small forest to surround a house I would have as many species as possible to increase biodiversity. That should attract more birds and small animals.

Cheers,

[Loom]

Thanks Francis,

That would have more aesthetic appeal, but there's probably enough land to dedicate for a specific growing project. I'm still gathering as much info as possible and ideally would like to combine the two goals of having a nice living envronment while creating value. Extended family manages other purely ag properties (rice) and I'm looking for ideas to improve the yields. Just gathering as much info as possible at this stage. Best rgds,