US activates controversial missile shield in Romania

[webfact]

US activates controversial missile shield in Romania



"It was never, ever about Russia. It was always about ballistic missiles coming out of the Middle Eastern region towards NATO allies and US forces in Europe"

BRUSSELS: -- America has switched on a controversial missile shield in Romania, incensing Moscow.

The aim, it says, is to protect NATO countries from short and medium-range missiles.

It is part of a wider defensive umbrella, which will stretch from Greenland to the Azores.

But Russia claims the shield is aimed at blunting its nuclear arsenal.

“It was never, ever about Russia. It was always about ballistic missiles coming out of the Middle Eastern region towards NATO allies and US forces in Europe,” said Robert Work, US Deputy Secretary of Defence.

“And I’d just like to echo what the Secretary General has said – we have offered to the Russians to show them the technical specs.”

Moscow says the system, at the southern Deveselu air base, is a “direct threat” to security.

It’s accusing the US of violating the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.

“We consider the deployment of such launching platforms on land as contradicting one of the key provisions of the INF Treaty,” said Maria Zakharova, a Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman.

“Thereby, the United States have violated the INF Treaty, which has to be declared openly and without any additional diplomatic expressions.”

While US and NATO officials are adamant that the shield is designed to counter threats from the Middle East, they’re vague on whether the technology could be reconfigured to defend against Russia – if there’s a conflict.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-05-13

[Mosha]

So instead of whinging, why doesn't Russia install its own shield?

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[Class C]

This is a big news story but as usual it doesn't appear on the front pages of most newspapers which somewhat exposes the stealthy intentions.

[Tatsujin]

So instead of whinging, why doesn't Russia install its own shield?

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Both the USA and Russia are in breach of the Treaty so they might as well just rip it up.

[craigt3365]

This is a big news story but as usual it doesn't appear on the front pages of most newspapers which somewhat exposes the stealthy intentions.

This has been widely reported on many media sites lately.

But talk about stealth. Wow:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-f-22-raptors-historic-201500030.html

Whilst in Europe, the 95^th FS conducted air training with varied European-based assets. The F-22s forward deployed from the UK to Romania, who’s MiG-21 LanceRs provided quite the technological contrast to the ultra high-tech F-22s. A small contingent of F-22s also deployed to Lithuania. The Raptors also participated in the commemoration of the 100th Anniversary of the Lafayette Escadrille in Paris, France, providing a dramatic four-ship flyover.

Impressive.

[Tatsujin]

This is a big news story but as usual it doesn't appear on the front pages of most newspapers which somewhat exposes the stealthy intentions.

Hardly stealthy considering George W Bush informed them in 2001 they would be withdrawing from the ABM Treaty so that they could build exactly what has now been installed.

[craigt3365]

This is a big news story but as usual it doesn't appear on the front pages of most newspapers which somewhat exposes the stealthy intentions.

Hardly stealthy considering George W Bush informed them in 2001 they would be withdrawing from the ABM Treaty so that they could build exactly what has now been installed.

Wouldn't be Russia's invasion of Ukraine that had anything to do with this?

[Grouse]

Yet another example of poor strategic planning by our American cousins

Just reinforces the Russian idea of maintaining buffer zones.

Strategic deterrence together with rapid deployment capability would have been much preferred.

As you will probably be aware, positioning radars and listening stations in the East of Turkey was one of the key triggers of the Cuban missile crisis.

We need smarter people at the helm

[Grouse]

Defensive umbrella from Greenland to the Azores?

Straight down the Atlantic then?

Who writes this stuff? Sarah Palin?

[craigt3365]

Yet another example of poor strategic planning by our American cousins

Just reinforces the Russian idea of maintaining buffer zones.

Strategic deterrence together with rapid deployment capability would have been much preferred.

As you will probably be aware, positioning radars and listening stations in the East of Turkey was one of the key triggers of the Cuban missile crisis.

We need smarter people at the helm

We do need smarter people at the helm. Ones who don't invade countries and annex their sovereign territory. Ones who don't support maniac dictators and bomb innocent civilians. Ones who don't threaten their former states with legal action to reclaim them.

This is just tit for tat.

[craigt3365]

Defensive umbrella from Greenland to the Azores?

Straight down the Atlantic then?

Who writes this stuff? Sarah Palin?

You are aware Sarah Palin is not a government official? Or is that just a troll post.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[craigt3365]

Great article on this, with a timeline of events:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-timeline-idUSKCN0Y217P

[Tatsujin]

This is a big news story but as usual it doesn't appear on the front pages of most newspapers which somewhat exposes the stealthy intentions.

Hardly stealthy considering George W Bush informed them in 2001 they would be withdrawing from the ABM Treaty so that they could build exactly what has now been installed.

Wouldn't be Russia's invasion of Ukraine that had anything to do with this?

Quite possibly, although that was in 2014 and this ABM shield had been in the planning stages for decades before that.

http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/boots-ground-only-places-world-united-states-hasnt-sent-troops-map-1698521

The interactive map along with dates and reasons is quite interesting to look over. It's easier to count the countries that haven't had US boots on the ground than those that have.

You can imagine the response if Russia did the same thing and put boots on the ground in countries nearer the "peaceloving" USA. Cuba for one. That went down well.

[Grouse]

Defensive umbrella from Greenland to the Azores?

Straight down the Atlantic then?

Who writes this stuff? Sarah Palin?

You are aware Sarah Palin is not a government official? Or is that just a troll post.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just a facetious comment. A defence line from Greenland to the Azores? What?

I was reminded of Palin's comment about Alaska being so close to Russia she could keep an eye on them. Or words to that effect

If a humorous comment is trolling, this is not the forum for me....

[Mosha]

Bye bye

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[craigt3365]

I do believe the original impetus for this was to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions. And their threats to use them against Israel. Not Europe. So probably yes, this is going overboard. But don't see the NATO countries backing off their deployment. Which they are entirely within their rights to do.

As far as comparing it to Cuba, that's misplaced. This is a missile shield. Not a nuclear missile. Apples and oranges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

In response to the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, and the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev decided to agree to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter future harassment of Cuba. An agreement was reached during a secret meeting between Khrushchev and Fidel Castro in July and construction on a number of missile launch facilities started later that summer.

[Tatsujin]

I do believe the original impetus for this was to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions. And their threats to use them against Israel. Not Europe. So probably yes, this is going overboard. But don't see the NATO countries backing off their deployment. Which they are entirely within their rights to do.

As far as comparing it to Cuba, that's misplaced. This is a missile shield. Not a nuclear missile. Apples and oranges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

In response to the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, and the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev decided to agree to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter future harassment of Cuba. An agreement was reached during a secret meeting between Khrushchev and Fidel Castro in July and construction on a number of missile launch facilities started later that summer.

So, the USSR placed nuclear missiles in Cuba because the USA had first placed them in Turkey and Italy (and other locations throughout Europe). Got it.

It's tit for tat as always, but neither the USA or Russia/USSR are innocents in any of this, both have pushed things to the limits (and beyond) and helped their "allies" to do the same.

And let's not forget, it's a missile system ... what's at the tip can be changed easily.

[craigt3365]

Understood. But I rarely see Western nations making these kinds of threats:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-Poland-over-US-missile-shield-deal.html

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting "the allies of countries having nuclear weapons".

He told Russia's Interfax news agency: "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

[SgtRock]

Defensive umbrella from Greenland to the Azores?

Straight down the Atlantic then?

Who writes this stuff? Sarah Palin?

You are aware Sarah Palin is not a government official? Or is that just a troll post.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

You nailed it.

[Rancid]

So the shield was to prevent missile attacks from the middle east? Right. Well the only nuclear armed power there is Israel. Or are we supposed to believe Iran who doesn't have missiles wants to declare a suicidal war on NATO for some unknown reason?

The missile shield as I've commented before is about giving the US first strike nuclear capability. Now if Russia had a missile shield wouldn't NATO be panicking for exactly the same reason, namely being able to nuke someone without fear of retaliation?

That aside both Chinese and Russians have developed new missiles that will go straight through it any way, so another colossal waste of money. Still good way to help instill fear into the ignorant and ramp up the war machine profits.

[Tatsujin]

Understood. But I rarely see Western nations making these kinds of threats:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-Poland-over-US-missile-shield-deal.html

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting "the allies of countries having nuclear weapons".

He told Russia's Interfax news agency: "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

That's simply down to selective/biased news reporting by western media outlets.

If you think that NATO/Europe/USA are NOT doing exactly the same things, you're sadly mistaken.

[Tatsujin]

So the shield was to prevent missile attacks from the middle east? Right. Well the only nuclear armed power there is Israel. Or are we supposed to believe Iran who doesn't have missiles wants to declare a suicidal war on NATO for some unknown reason?

The missile shield as I've commented before is about giving the US first strike nuclear capability. Now if Russia had a missile shield wouldn't NATO be panicking for exactly the same reason, namely being able to nuke someone without fear of retaliation?

That aside both Chinese and Russians have developed new missiles that will go straight through it any way, so another colossal waste of money. Still good way to help instill fear into the ignorant and ramp up the war machine profits.

United States, Russia, United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, North Korea (and allegedly) Saudi Arabia have them too.

That doesn't of course count the numerous countries where the US has "placed" their own nuclear missiles.

[SgtRock]

In the short term it will bring much needed money to the local community in Romania.

In the long term, people above my pay grade will have worked out the potential radiation hazard

[Publicus]

This missile defense system is the land version of the Aegis radar and anti-missile system the US Navy has. The Russian claims pumped up by the Putin fanboyz that an Su-24 fighter-bomber flying boxcar knocked out the Aegis on the USS Donald Cook destroyer in the Black Sea continues to be a good laugh.

The system in Romania, which consists of an Aegis radar and two dozen SM-3 missiles, is the first onshore installation of a larger system that has been deployed on U.S. Navy ships in the Mediterranean for several years now.

U.S. officials have said the entire project -- known as the European Phased Adaptive Approach -- is aimed at intercepting ballistic missiles launched from Iran at European targets. Construction on a similar system in Poland, slated for completion in 2018, will be launched on May 13.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2016/space-160511-rferl01.htm?_m=3n%2e002a%2e1715%2etq0ao005re%2e1krb

Nato is not going to invade or attack anyone. Russia is another story however.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Publicus

[craigt3365]

So the shield was to prevent missile attacks from the middle east? Right. Well the only nuclear armed power there is Israel. Or are we supposed to believe Iran who doesn't have missiles wants to declare a suicidal war on NATO for some unknown reason?

The missile shield as I've commented before is about giving the US first strike nuclear capability. Now if Russia had a missile shield wouldn't NATO be panicking for exactly the same reason, namely being able to nuke someone without fear of retaliation?

That aside both Chinese and Russians have developed new missiles that will go straight through it any way, so another colossal waste of money. Still good way to help instill fear into the ignorant and ramp up the war machine profits.

Agreed. Iran would never attack NATO. But this shield is for incoming attacks. Yes, could be modified, but NATO doesn't need more first strike capabilities. There's enough of that already. On both sides.

You comment about instilling fear into the ignorant isn't welcomed.

[craigt3365]

Understood. But I rarely see Western nations making these kinds of threats:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2566005/Russia-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-Poland-over-US-missile-shield-deal.html

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting "the allies of countries having nuclear weapons".

He told Russia's Interfax news agency: "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

That's simply down to selective/biased news reporting by western media outlets.

If you think that NATO/Europe/USA are NOT doing exactly the same things, you're sadly mistaken.

Please show me a post by one of the NATO commanders who've said they'll nuke Russia if it does something like this. That wasn't even said after they invaded Ukraine! A bit more dangerous than just placing some missile shield!

[Grouse]

The Greenland to Azores shield still intrigues me!

Who is this to protect

I am concerned about upsetting the strategic balance

Be careful Russia doesn't get its revenge in first!

[craigt3365]

The Greenland to Azores shield still intrigues me!

Who is this to protect

I am concerned about upsetting the strategic balance

Be careful Russia doesn't get its revenge in first!

That's kinda what this is all about. Trying to keep Russia from going after neighboring countries. Ukraine and Georgia have already experienced this first hand.

[IMA_FARANG]

So instead of whinging, why doesn't Russia install its own shield?

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--------------------------THEY DID.

Part of the agreement signed by Ronnie Raegen and Gorbachov in the 1980's was a limit on ONE defensive anti-missle sysytem per country....which both countries signed.

The u.S. was allowed one defensive anti-missle system. but it was never completed due to political reasons.

It was started in North Dakota, but never finished

The then Soviet Union was allowed to built one anti-missle system to protect Moscow.

When the Soviet Union disintergrated and Soviet troops left Germany and Eastern Europe.the Soviets never completed their Moscow anti-missle defense ring....probably becausee of budget reasons.

Russian troops left Rumania with the rest of Eastern Eueope and never returned.

i was alive at the time....not sure if you were yet born then.

The current Rmanian government wants a closer parnership with NATO.....which Moscow considers an agressive move.

Edited May 13, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[Mosha]

So instead of whinging, why doesn't Russia install its own shield?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

--------------------------THEY DID.

Part of the agreement signed by Ronnie Raegen and Gorbachov in the 1980's was a limit on ONE defensive anti-missle sysytem per country....which both countries signed.

The u.S. was allowed one defensive anti-missle system. but it was never completed due to political reasons.

It was started in North Dakota, but never finished

The then Soviet Union was allowed to built one anti-missle system to protect Moscow.

When the Soviet Union disintergrated and Soviet troops left Germany and Eastern Europe.the Soviets never completed their Moscow anti-missle defense ring....probably becausee of budget reasons.

Russian troops left Rumania with the rest of Eastern Eueope and never returned.

i was alive at the time....not sure if you were yet born then.

The current Rmanian government wants a closer parnership with NATO.....which Moscow considers an agressive move.

B 1956 so I was around.

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