Lack Of Family Affecftion

[TAWP]

I honestly think the culture of not showing emotions is damaging to the kids.

My wife saw the way my family is, and how my mother hugs us grown up lads and our respective girlfriends/wifes and later in tears said (after we moved back to Thailand) she loved my mom. And that she didn't know if her own mom really loved her at all.

I'm sure her parents love her, they just seem incapable of showing it in clear emotions, instead of money. And her mom and aunts only has a spectrum of emotions out that goes between neutral and upset. Against everyone.

[Thaddeus]

yeah a real shames, whenever my wife sees her Brothers and father there is only waying..no affection at all

They known what bums each are so why would they show affection. This is the same with any family of bums anywhere in the world, wake up. Did you ever see poor white trash in America. Well you love them too.

It's ok Henry, I'm sure you will end up buying a house for some white trash eventually, start slow.... buy them a trailer.

Mark H and TAWP (what does that mean btw)

Don't expect a friendly gathering at the gatepost when you leave, it isn't going to happen.

I may be wrong in this assumption, assumptions usually are, but, how far are you going to go, and for how long...... family members around here are still stuck with the notion of 'we'll see them tomorrow' ... when we get thrown into the mix, that rule doesn't always apply anymore.

[scubaaussie]

I've lived down south of thailand and I have seen alot of affection between thai people and certainly families I know there, especially between older relations and the children. I know it can also be the thai way not to show affection but you do see it nonetheless.

[PeaceBlondie]

My stepmother came from a very emotional, expresive family and was surprised that my father was so unexpressive. He told her, "My children know what is expected of them." I knew then that my father loved us, and that he wouldn't hug us.

I almost went bonkers at the funeral of my best student, when the only one allowed to wail was the mother. Then I remembered that I wasn't allowed to cry (at my father's example) when my mother died.

I'm not here to tell Thais how to do culture. Maybe it works for them; who are we to say? They have their ways of showing appreciation without hugging and kissing.

[sbk]

I wouldn't mistake a lack of physical contact for a lack of affection.

I agree, Thai people show their affection in ways different from those in western society. Don't be so quick to judge because they don't stand up to your cultural norms.

Not only is it prevalent among Thais but throughout Asia. The hugging when meeting that I saw in my own home-country happens only among those who are more exposed to western culture.

In many ways, Asians are not taught to be affectionate in public. If any, they have already adopt the western way.

Not in South Korea, they all hug and kiss there children like mad

I think most people agree that Thai people also show alot of physical affection for children.

I think the confusion comes from assuming that physical contact is the only form of showing affection. My husband never shows PDA's (public displays of affection) with me but it is still obvious to all that he is my husband and that he loves me. I don't push him into something he is not comfortable with, but he doesn't have a problem with physical affection behind closed doors.

And what those are are none of your business

[TAWP]

Mark H and TAWP (what does that mean btw)

Team America: World Police

Don't expect a friendly gathering at the gatepost when you leave, it isn't going to happen.

I'm not going anywhere or expecting a good bye-hug. I don't really care for my sake. I do however care about my wifes feeling regarding lack of love from her parents. "It's just how they are" is something I have heard several hundred times. But it still doesn't change anything and it's not a valid excuse.

Edited November 7, 2006 by TAWP

[roguegirl]

I wouldn't mistake a lack of physical contact for a lack of affection.

I agree, Thai people show their affection in ways different from those in western society. Don't be so quick to judge because they don't stand up to your cultural norms.

Not only is it prevalent among Thais but throughout Asia. The hugging when meeting that I saw in my own home-country happens only among those who are more exposed to western culture.

In many ways, Asians are not taught to be affectionate in public. If any, they have already adopt the western way.

not true...in my homeland they hug and kiss all the time. Just as long as its not PDA and among family only.

Sorry for being rather vague in my explanation... Affection is not reserved when it is for kids, up to the pre-puberty age. And normally, among those who have tried to adopt Western ways, affection is still reserved mainly for family members only. Some would include very close friends.

Among traditional Asian, affections are hard to see in public even among two people who love each other.

Whether such culture is better or otherwise... I would say that each to their own.

[Donz]

I wouldn't mistake a lack of physical contact for a lack of affection.

I agree, Thai people show their affection in ways different from those in western society. Don't be so quick to judge because they don't stand up to your cultural norms.

Not only is it prevalent among Thais but throughout Asia. The hugging when meeting that I saw in my own home-country happens only among those who are more exposed to western culture.

In many ways, Asians are not taught to be affectionate in public. If any, they have already adopt the western way.

not true...in my homeland they hug and kiss all the time. Just as long as its not PDA and among family only.

Sorry for being rather vague in my explanation... Affection is not reserved when it is for kids, up to the pre-puberty age. And normally, among those who have tried to adopt Western ways, affection is still reserved mainly for family members only. Some would include very close friends.

Among traditional Asian, affections are hard to see in public even among two people who love each other.

Whether such culture is better or otherwise... I would say that each to their own.

Yea thats true, usually affection is not expressed in with couples in public as they see it as being rude, holding hands is usually ok but kissing etc is not but some still do it.

The affection is shown more with family and with friends.

You see many in korea with arms around each other, even the men do it which sort of took me by surprise when i first seen it.

[roguegirl]

There is an oddity that different community express affection differently. Certainly a westerner cannot expect that other communities express it their way. I think that is rather a disrespect to the diversity of communities of the world.

For people in my home country, it was rather a shock to see Bangladeshi men holding hands among themselves when a lot came to work as labourers. But we strive to understand and it has, so far, nothing odd for us anymore.

Edited November 8, 2006 by roguegirl

[TAWP]

I disagree. Thinking about the welbeing of a child, before automatically accepting 'culture' or 'tradition', must always be the primary aim.

If you disagree I know of several 'nice' traditions that are practised throughout the world...

[Berty]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

[Donz]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

Different culture, just like they dont like to shake peoples hands

[dgoz]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

I'm not sure about Thailand, but in Vietnam saying thanks to a friend or family member is considered sarcastic. They think it's natural to help out and do favours for loved ones and you don't need gratification for it.

Maybe it's the same in Thailand.

[meadish_sweetball]

I disagree. Thinking about the welbeing of a child, before automatically accepting 'culture' or 'tradition', must always be the primary aim.

If you disagree I know of several 'nice' traditions that are practised throughout the world...

But you always start out with preconceptions of "nice" and "not nice" based on your own culture and upbringing.

I don't think all Thai children doubt whether they are loved by their parents, such as in your wife's case. Along the same lines, surely there are quite a few dysfunctional families in our home country too. I know there were a few where I grew up.

All I can say is that I will continue to show my children affection in the same way it was shown to me by my parents, but I am not going to make wifey's family behave the same as me - as long as there is no hitting or scare-mongering I'll accept their way of doing things and ask them to do the same of me.

[roguegirl]

I disagree. Thinking about the welbeing of a child, before automatically accepting 'culture' or 'tradition', must always be the primary aim.

If you disagree I know of several 'nice' traditions that are practised throughout the world...

The same as you are not well verse and exposed to their culture, so is vice versa!

Your comment makes me think thet you think that your culture is the best and the only one everyone should prescribe to. That, IMHO, is imposing and condescending.

Just as you may roll your eyes seeing our unaffection, we roll our eyes to see all the affections among you and your kind.

Get it?

Edited November 8, 2006 by roguegirl

[Berty]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

Different culture, just like they dont like to shake peoples hands

Yes! There's nothing worse than that cold wet fish Thai blokes offer when they shake your hand.

[TAWP]

I disagree. Thinking about the welbeing of a child, before automatically accepting 'culture' or 'tradition', must always be the primary aim.

If you disagree I know of several 'nice' traditions that are practised throughout the world...

The same as you are not well verse and exposed to their culture, so is vice versa!

Your comment makes me think thet you think that your culture is the best and the only one everyone should prescribe to. That, IMHO, is imposing and condescending.

Just as you may roll your eyes seeing our unaffection, we roll our eyes to see all the affections among you and your kind.

Get it?

Read what I typed again.

You can argue that doing/not doing something to a child isn't affecting them at all, but you cannot wave away any objections with explanations as 'culture' or 'tradition'. That is pure ignorance.

Meadish>> Not to worrie, I know very well that there is dysfunctionell families in our homecountry, and that wasn't the argument. It's that I think not showing a wide range of emotions (only neutral to upset) and not showing enough affection to a child, is bad for it.

Anyone disagree?

(Dr Mengele did some tests in this area btw if anyone would like to read up on it.)

[sbk]

I disagree. Thinking about the welbeing of a child, before automatically accepting 'culture' or 'tradition', must always be the primary aim.

If you disagree I know of several 'nice' traditions that are practised throughout the world...

Most of the posters, as far as I have noticed, have stated that they see quite a bit of affection (physical or otherwise) generally demonstrated towards children but that once the child reaches puberty that changes. How is that harmful towards the well being of children?

Also, I might add that both of my nephews (my 12 year old Thai nephew and my 11 year old American nephew) consider hugs and kisses from their relatives in public to be embarrassing. Pretty standard behavior among boys of that age I believe.

As meadish states, dysfunctional families can be in any country and any culture.

[TAWP]

sbk>> I haven't said that thai families don't show affection to their kids.

[roguegirl]

The same as you are not well verse and exposed to their culture, so is vice versa!

Your comment makes me think that you think that your culture is the best and the only one everyone should prescribe to. That, IMHO, is imposing and condescending.

Just as you may roll your eyes seeing our unaffection, we roll our eyes to see all the affections among you and your kind.

Get it?

Kindly read the bold part, please.

Btw, what with the kind of unaffectionate culture that we live in, we still fair just as well... Don't look like we become sadistic in droves, do we?

Edited November 8, 2006 by roguegirl

[TAWP]

Stop making a fool of yourself by repeating a strawman-argument.

No-one has said that 'their' western culture is the best.

[popshirt]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

Different culture, just like they dont like to shake peoples hands

Yes! There's nothing worse than that cold wet fish Thai blokes offer when they shake your hand.

I'm a westerner and one of the things I like best about living in Thailand is NOT having to shake hands! The promiscuity of hand shaking among westerners is extremely unsanitary.

[terradon]

I am happily surprised at the amount or replies to this .... expected 1 or 2 only. Just goes to show

I do believe that most parents do have feelings for their children and that we do show it in different ways.

Just because us Farrangs do things differently does not mean we are right, though I would rather give my child a hug to show him he is loved and also for that physical sense of security. That way I also feel he can show love and affection in the future and not be embarrassed about doing so both to a future wife and children in private and in public.

My Thai g/f seems happy to show affection to me in public but noit to her own family / children and that DOES seem strange.

[roguegirl]

Stop making a fool of yourself by repeating a strawman-argument.

No-one has said that 'their' western culture is the best.

Yes, yes, yes... your doctor will agree with you...

[TAWP]

*sigh*

That's rich, female trolls too now.

[roguegirl]

I am happily surprised at the amount or replies to this .... expected 1 or 2 only. Just goes to show

I do believe that most parents do have feelings for their children and that we do show it in different ways.

Just because us Farrangs do things differently does not mean we are right, though I would rather give my child a hug to show him he is loved and also for that physical sense of security. That way I also feel he can show love and affection in the future and not be embarrassed about doing so both to a future wife and children in private and in public.

My Thai g/f seems happy to show affection to me in public but noit to her own family / children and that DOES seem strange.

So, which one is this.

The one who has been separated for 5 years?

[GuestHouse]

Why do they rarely say thankyou either??

I think the reason for this can be found in the Thai Graeng Jai thing - Giving someone an unsolicited gift or doing someone an unsolicited favour throws many Thai recipients of such largese into turmoil.

I've actually had Thais come and ask me what the Farang they are working for meant by giving them a small gift, when I replied 'perhaps she thought you would like it', the response was an even more puzzled look.

Yes! There's nothing worse than that cold wet fish Thai blokes offer when they shake your hand.

I made a point of giving all my Thai staff 'Handshaking lessons', to teach them the ettiquette and method of shaking hands (just like many Farang like to know the ettiquette and correct method of Wai-ing).

Which brings me to an observation we ought not to miss.

Departing from PeaceBlondie's contention that she is not here to tell the Thais how to do culture - I take the view that because we live in and with a culture, it will effect us, we will effect it.

When we accept that, we also see the enormous responsibility that comes with our actions and interactions.

[PREM-R]

General rule when shaking hands with a Thai..... Count your fingers after.....One or more may be missing

[Maigo6]

General rule when shaking hands with a Thai..... Count your fingers after.....One or more may be missing

Only people to ever steal anything from me in Thailand has been other Farangs.

I would rather trust a Thai than another Farang in most cases.

I'm afraid that many of the Farang living in Thailand leave a lot to be desired, many are not that solvent when it comes to money, and would not hesitate to rip off a fellow farang for a few bucks.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Maigo6

[markwhite]

<quote>

Meadish>> Not to worrie, I know very well that there is dysfunctionell families in our homecountry, and that wasn't the argument. It's that I think not showing a wide range of emotions (only neutral to upset) and not showing enough affection to a child, is bad for it.

Anyone disagree?

</quote>

Not really, but...

In this case it seems to depends on the requirements of the society in which it will need to survive.

In a society that is mostly devoid of public displays of affection, someone who is trained not to exhibit public displays of affection will not have had an upbringing which is necessarily bad for them.

But from an individualistic point of view, it's just one example of the many forms of conditioning that we all have thrust upon us by our parents, peers and society. The person who is brought up to conform in any way whatsoever will find it difficult to behave in a way that it outside that conformation should the need arise. They will have been emotionally crippled in some way. Maybe a strong term, but it fits.

Conditioning is one thing. Supporting the growing individual to have the wherewithall to decide at a later point in their live if the constraints of the conditioning still need to apply to their lives is another. Where the individual truly decides that it is in their interests, for whatever reason, to live within those constraints of their own free will, who has any right to disagree.

But most of the time people are not only unaware that they can choose to change their behaviour, but they are unaware that there is a choice. A subtle difference. I might see two sides of the street, but believe I *should* only walk on this side - I reject the possibility that a different mode of behaviour will have any advantage for me. Or I might only see one side of the street and completely ignore the existence of the other - I cannot conceive of another mode of behaviour.

Overcoming conditioning requires that the individual experiments with different modes of behaviour and judges for themselves based on their own feelings whether the experience is a desirable one. While personal feelings come secondary to 'what will society/my friends/my parents' think, this is impossible to achieve. The person is more in touch with the expectations and mores of others than they are their own feelings (in some respects, not all). A part of them is closed off and replaced by the introjection of an other, or group of others.

To me, this is somewhat inherent in Buddhism, based on the way that is has been taught to me. As there is no real 'me', I do not have to consider me first. Primarily I am only part of something which is greater than me - initially the family, then the community, then society, etc...

The ego appears to be not so important in Thailand compared to the west. I do not believe that being ego-centric is in itself a good thing and maybe society in the west suffers in certain ways because of this compared to society in the east.

But as with all things, neither one extreme or the other seems to provide the most suitable solution. A healthy balance between meeting ego-needs and societal needs, between eastern and western ideals, may be an answer.

And so Thai people (gross generalisation accepted) may not feel that certain behaviour is appropriate because of how it might look to others, but we like it because of the personal pleasure it brings us, so we do it no matter what others think.

(It gets very murky around the issue of bargirls where the girl's personal feelings often come way down the scale compared to the family's needs, but that's another issue entirely)

I'm going off on one here... :-)