What are people doing with all the bandwidth?

[gandalf12]

Bandwidth vs Speed.

http://etherealmind.com/basics-difference-bandwidth-speed/

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2227224/data-center/bandwidth-is-not-speed.html

But yea, usually when talking bandwidth and download speed at the layman's level they are mistakenly used interchangeably although there is a difference between the two.

Speed and Bandwidth are dictated by the Shannon-Hartley theorem. Increased bandwidth results in higher data rates and is also dependent on the bandwidth required. Voice is 4kHz so data speed is high.

The formulae is:

For all possible modulation and encoding techniques, the Shannon–Hartley theorem states the channel capacity C, meaning the theoretical tightest upper bound on the information rate of data that can be communicated at an arbitrarily low error rate using an average received signal power S through an analog communication channel subject to additive white Gaussian noise of power N:

C = B \log_2 \left( 1+\(S/N))

where

C is the channel capacity in bits per second;

B is the bandwidth of the channel in hertz (passband bandwidth in case of a bandpass signal);

S is the average received signal power over the bandwidth (in case of a modulated signal, often denoted C, i.e. modulated carrier), measured in watts (or volts squared);

N is the average power of the interfering Gaussian noise over the bandwidth, measured in watts (or volts squared); and

S/N is the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) or the carrier-to-noise ratio (CNR) of the communication signal to the Gaussian noise interference at the receiver (expressed as a linear power ratio, not as logarithmic decibels).

Edited May 15, 2016 by gandalf12

[Red13]

With a 20 Mbps connection, Google Play can update apps at 2.5 MB/s on a mobile device.

If I only had a 5 Mbps connection, the data transmission rate would be slowed to around 500 kbps.

Why would I not want a 'faster' connection?

Having Sinet 70/30 installed tomorrow which means HD Netflix, HD Youtube and Spotify at Extreme quality coupled with random downloading and web browsing at the same time shouldn't be an issue.

Providing I get what I'm paying for clearly.

[smccolley]

Just to be clear, there are two ways to measure bandwidth.

PIR - permitted information rate

CIR - committed information rate

So with all these high bandwidth residential services, they are telling you that they will restrict your maximum rate to X Mbps. They will not promise that you will get it based on the numerous other customers attached to your DSLAM.

Committed information rate is part of a business package that costs a lot more (I paid 2800 baht/month for my business line and 500 baht for my residential line at the same speed). They will guarantee you a certain amount of bandwidth which is less than the PIR but more than nothing.

So - if you purchase a residential 50Mbps service you can at least hope to get 10% of that during peak times. If you don't, you have no way to complain about it as there is no guarantee of any level of service.

So - buy the most bandwidth (based on PIR) that you can so when the system is choked up at least you know you have something. For me - a work at home telecom specialist - I chose two business lines with lower PIR and higher CIR and don't have any issues.

PS: I usually download around 100Gb per month and find that slow and steady wins the race. I know I will always get my CIR regardless of how many people are on my DSLAM or head end...

Edited May 15, 2016 by smccolley

[attrayant]

Ahh frame relay and leased lines... that takes me back. Although we called PIR = peak info rate or just "burst".

But both of those parameters specify how many bits will be allowed into the switch port each second, not necessarily how quickly they'll reach their destination. Private/leased lines are off topic.

[attrayant]

Having Sinet 70/30 installed tomorrow which means HD Netflix, HD Youtube and Spotify at Extreme quality coupled with random downloading and web browsing at the same time shouldn't be an issue.

How often will you realistically be doing all of those things at the same time? Telcos love subscribers like you, who purchase premium service but use it barely 1% of the time.

Yes there are extreme users out there, but they are few and far between.

[Chicog]

The terms are normally interchangeable. When I've used up my allocation, I phone the ISP and if I say "I've used up my downloads and I want to buy some more" I get a blank silence. If I say "I've used up all my bandwidth and I want to buy some more", away they go.

I have 50Mb (fast enough for me as I download Blurays and stuff) and 350Gb before it throttles to 10Mb (passable for IPTV).

[attrayant]

The terms are normally interchangeable.

Thank the marketing department for that. Call up any ISP and complain about how lousy your facetime call is with your mom back home and the moment they see you're on a "measly" 15 Mbps access line, they'll offer you an upgrade to 30, knowing full well that if the first 15 megs can't get you a clear video call, another 15 on top of that sure isn't going to help. It's the latency that matters the most for real time bidirectional traffic.

[richard10365]

I cancelled Truevision and now have the same service with ilikehd+. Same service at a third of the cost. My internet is 30/3 MB.GREAT SERVICE!

[gandalf12]

You claim 1.5 Mbit is enough for HD video, but it's not.

That's Skype's claim, not mine.

I've been on lines as small as T1 but those had committed bit rates and very low delay. That was a sweet ride while it lasted. Long-haul Internet is best-effort, aka 'it'll get there when it gets there'.

I don't think I can expect interexchange routes to improve their latency anytime soon, but it would be nice if people understood that a choppy skype call isn't going to get better by upgrading their local access from 15 to 30 Mbps.

If you are streaming a video of CIF4 @ 25fps then 1.8Mbps is the minimum required

[smccolley]

Having Sinet 70/30 installed tomorrow which means HD Netflix, HD Youtube and Spotify at Extreme quality coupled with random downloading and web browsing at the same time shouldn't be an issue.

How often will you realistically be doing all of those things at the same time? Telcos love subscribers like you, who purchase premium service but use it barely 1% of the time.

Yes there are extreme users out there, but they are few and far between.

I usually have 4 machines running all the time, everyone of them streaming or downloading (kids gotta have their youtube and steam...)

[attrayant]

I usually have 4 machines running all the time, everyone of them streaming or downloading (kids gotta have their youtube and steam...)

Sounds similar to my usage back home (mentioned in the OP) with Netflix running in two rooms while Youtubing on various PCs/mobile devices, all happening on a measly 700 Kbps DSL. I still don't see where 30 Mbps is justified except some very unusual/demanding situations. Most of the extreme examples given in this thread will be saved by client-side buffering.

One thing I notice now when I pull down a Youtube video is how quickly the buffer fills on a 30 Mb connection. Great, but how does that help me? I'm paying more than I need to just to keep the buffers happy. On basic DSL I remember the actual download stream staying just ahead of the playback demand. As an end user I don't really care how much gets buffered as long as my experience is the same.

[smccolley]

I usually have 4 machines running all the time, everyone of them streaming or downloading (kids gotta have their youtube and steam...)

Sounds similar to my usage back home (mentioned in the OP) with Netflix running in two rooms while Youtubing on various PCs/mobile devices, all happening on a measly 700 Kbps DSL. I still don't see where 30 Mbps is justified except some very unusual/demanding situations. Most of the extreme examples given in this thread will be saved by client-side buffering.

One thing I notice now when I pull down a Youtube video is how quickly the buffer fills on a 30 Mb connection. Great, but how does that help me? I'm paying more than I need to just to keep the buffers happy. On basic DSL I remember the actual download stream staying just ahead of the playback demand. As an end user I don't really care how much gets buffered as long as my experience is the same.

What I have seen is that if I am downloading using bittorrent and my son is playing Team Fortress and my daughter is watching youtube, the voice quality of my work VoIP is terrible on a 16Mbps connection and I have to switch my work machine to my backup 5Mbps connection. I am now trying to get the True FTTH at 50Mbps to fix that issue. Unfortunately True doesn't have fibre up my street yet, so I am trying to pull some strings to get that done.

You are correct though, it is 10% of the people that use 90% of the network bandwidth. I am in telecom and my product identifies those subs that don't need tons of bandwidth and design services with less bandwidth and less monthly data and sell it at a reduced price. Unfortunately no provider in Thailand has purchased my product yet, so they are not able to correctly identify those subs and therefore cannot sell reduced price services...

[jonw8uk]

Seen the size of games these days?

GTA5 was 65GB

You're talking about a one-time file download that isn't delay-sensitive. My whole point is that people are buying bandwidth when what they really NEED is speed.

Are you saying a 3Gb file would download quicker on a 5Mbps low latency line than a 30Mbps thailand latency line?

This was a genuine question, as in my (non IT) mind, the higher data volume per second would win.

So for downloads, opening webpages, streaming video - i.e most peoples primary activities online, the higher bandwith number equates to greater speed.

Is that wrong?!

[BrainLife]

I have a stable 6Mb down and 1Mb up with Pattaya Sophon Cable Internet.

I download daily my torrents and other stuff and I always pull 100% my allowed speed which comes to about 750KB/s

I stream youtube, Netflix, Hulu and many others in HD if available.

Yes, I could upgrade, but it works fine for my needs. 1GB, 720p TV show, I have in about 30-40 minutes.

Cost me 8000baht per year and hardly ever any problems.

Edited May 16, 2016 by BrainLife

[jacko45k]

Kidding themselves, they only get that to a nearby sever. Anyhow it isn't bandwidth, it is maximum data/bit rate.

Edited May 16, 2016 by jacko45k

[facthailand]

I torrent a lot, both up and down. No streaming at all. But my major need for bandwidth is to avoid stuttering on Skype calls and YouTube. Even on YT, I tend to download so I can watch on my own time.

[Gregory Morozov]

Apart from the obvious waiting time minimization before you can watch a movie from a torrent, cloud backups, file syncing can easily saturate our 50/10 connection from 3BB. Latency to Singapore, where many of our servers are, is excellent.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Gregory Morozov

[Oxx]

I have to ask: what are people doing with all this bandwidth?

Watching porn, and watching at an ever higher resolution.

https://youtu.be/LTJvdGcb7Fs

[smccolley]

I usually have 4 machines running all the time, everyone of them streaming or downloading (kids gotta have their youtube and steam...)

Sounds similar to my usage back home (mentioned in the OP) with Netflix running in two rooms while Youtubing on various PCs/mobile devices, all happening on a measly 700 Kbps DSL. I still don't see where 30 Mbps is justified except some very unusual/demanding situations. Most of the extreme examples given in this thread will be saved by client-side buffering.

One thing I notice now when I pull down a Youtube video is how quickly the buffer fills on a 30 Mb connection. Great, but how does that help me? I'm paying more than I need to just to keep the buffers happy. On basic DSL I remember the actual download stream staying just ahead of the playback demand. As an end user I don't really care how much gets buffered as long as my experience is the same.

What I have seen is that if I am downloading using bittorrent and my son is playing Team Fortress and my daughter is watching youtube, the voice quality of my work VoIP is terrible on a 16Mbps connection and I have to switch my work machine to my backup 5Mbps connection. I am now trying to get the True FTTH at 50Mbps to fix that issue. Unfortunately True doesn't have fibre up my street yet, so I am trying to pull some strings to get that done.

You are correct though, it is 10% of the people that use 90% of the network bandwidth. I am in telecom and my product identifies those subs that don't need tons of bandwidth and design services with less bandwidth and less monthly data and sell it at a reduced price. Unfortunately no provider in Thailand has purchased my product yet, so they are not able to correctly identify those subs and therefore cannot sell reduced price services...

So because of the telcom's inability to detect user traffic - YOU are paying for me to download 100GB per month! Sorry man...

Just a note, my product is pretty cheap as Cisco products go, a few million bucks. Let all the telcoms know you want them to buy Cisco CPS and you can get cheap internet too.

Edited May 16, 2016 by smccolley

[attrayant]

This was a genuine question, as in my (non IT) mind, the higher data volume per second would win.

So for downloads, opening webpages, streaming video - i.e most peoples primary activities online, the higher bandwidth number equates to greater speed.

I think nobody answered because there are too many variables involved. The answer is probably yes if all or most of your destinations are within Thailand and you have multiple simultaneous users. But the more hops you have to go through, the more delay is introduced and the slower your connection will feel no matter how wide it is.

While one size doesn't fit all, it will probably fit most.

[AlQaholic]

If you speed check your connection with a server anywhere inside Thailand you get 30MBps or more most of the time, but doing the same with a server abroad like in the US or Europe or even Singapore you get sometimes up to 3-4 MBps and sometimes less than 1 MBps, so why anyone would need anything faster than 10 MBps is beyond my comprehension.

On the other hand if you complain with the ISP they will probably upgrade you international speed a bit (at least for a while until the next power outage erases their servers and they forgot all about you, then you have to call and complain again....). I read somewhere on TV a while ago about someone who complained about the international speed and they readily increased the speed just for him. But now I don't know with the one gateway.....

[lopburi3]

Actually this is my current speed test to Singapore using True 30/3 service.

And to San Fran

[Jdiddy]

If you speed check your connection with a server anywhere inside Thailand you get 30MBps or more most of the time, but doing the same with a server abroad like in the US or Europe or even Singapore you get sometimes up to 3-4 MBps and sometimes less than 1 MBps, so why anyone would need anything faster than 10 MBps is beyond my comprehension.

Because some people have more then 1 connection going at a time, bittorrent can use multiple connections for each file

When you add multiples users in the same house you get multiple connections all the time

Even on True's lte-a network i can get speeds up to 65mbit/sec to a hong kong server with testmy if i test inside a shopping mall (high capacity short range cell)

[csabo]

Umm ...ripping videos from piratebay. It can take days to pull a whole show series down on a slow connection.

[Somtamnication]

Donkey porn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smccolley]

If you speed check your connection with a server anywhere inside Thailand you get 30MBps or more most of the time, but doing the same with a server abroad like in the US or Europe or even Singapore you get sometimes up to 3-4 MBps and sometimes less than 1 MBps, so why anyone would need anything faster than 10 MBps is beyond my comprehension.

On the other hand if you complain with the ISP they will probably upgrade you international speed a bit (at least for a while until the next power outage erases their servers and they forgot all about you, then you have to call and complain again....). I read somewhere on TV a while ago about someone who complained about the international speed and they readily increased the speed just for him. But now I don't know with the one gateway.....

I am not sure that is necessarily a true statement. Below are two speedtest results to Dallas from here, one is my 16Mbps 3BB and the second is my 5Mbps ToT connection:

[attrayant]

I think it's more interesting that you seem to be getting 7.3 megs on a 5 Mb TOT connection but only 11 on a 16 Mb 3BB connection. Here's mine to the same server, via True 30 Mbps. Nearly twice the advertised bandwidth but just a few Mbps more in reality.

[lopburi3]

My current Dallas is about the same

Better to San Fran

Edited May 17, 2016 by lopburi3

[wpcoe]

I'm a little suspicious about the speedtest.net result I just got to Dallas for my True 30/3 DOCSIS plan:



especially when compared to the testmy.net to Dallas run a minute later:

[lopburi3]

What is that test size? Normal test will start at zero and slowly work up to full speed - appears that other site may not give it time to do so.

Edited May 18, 2016 by lopburi3