Why are teaching salaries in Chiang Mai so low?

[Mousehound]

Yes - the question is a good one. The rider is the problem.

[cgphuket]

Partly it is low cost of living (compared to other big cities). Partly is because there are many people living off money from home (savings, trust fund, disability check, etc) who need a visa, so teaching is just a hobby job. This keeps wages low as many people are willing to take a job more for the visa than the salary.

[Lung Jon]

This is LONG...sorry, but I'm trying to explain the model top down.

Salaries in public schools may vary depending on if you are hired directly by the school or through an agency, I know here in the deep south that public schools receive a gross budget of B45,000 x 12 or B540,000 per year. Now, please rememberer that a school has to sort out a work permit (wp) for you as well, and say allocate 20,000 (by hook or by crook) for that.

The agents typically may receive B40,000-B35,000 per month for employment, and of course there are great variations on that, if you receive 10,11, or 12 months salary can be a bone of contention, but if you need a job, you need a job...right. So from 540k-20k wp = 520k (k=1,000) school pays agent 10*45k=450k (school keeps 70k for "the kids :.))) Agency takes 450k if agent does wp, that depends sometimes, the schools do this even with an agent in place.

Now, what you receive as a teacher, will be what's left 25k-35k for 10/11/12 months.

As far as regional markets go, some of these are turning into "agent" monopolies, which may occur during the bidding process to get the contract for a school, as the agents need to place a physical deposit of cash with the school board, until the final decision is made, this immediately acts as a constriction for new "agencies" to enter the market, and is almost a perpetual circle, where only the "big" agents can continue and dominate. (yes its envelopes with cash...but an open process in that sense, at least officially).

Although, I don't know Chang Mai, but if its not over competitive, it maybe down to a couple of agents "running" the show and no real price competitiveness, and maybe an oversupply of farang teachers compared to the number of "teaching jobs available". In that case you may be better looking at Private schools. Or come down to Surat Thani province, where there is a shortage of native English speaking teachers and 30-35k * 10 months, is OK even with agencies.

My experience NOT a definitive template for Thailand, BUT local models will be close to this.

Jon

[tagalong]

Simon 43.... Good on you... Well said..

[Scouse Twoccer]

There is an expression, "you get what you pay for". Maybe the CM schools know what they will get so they pay accordingly.

[Jeremy50]

Because there are thousands of foreigners in Chiang Mai engaged in this fool's trade.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jeremy50

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Chiang Mai is a hub for TEFL factories,,,so that adds to the oversupply. Many are taking the course here, because they want to work here (in CM), to begin with. Lots of non-NES (mostly Europeans) have helped to saturate this market. They will take less, but not as little as the Filipinos. CM is also rife with pay to work "programs," with plenty of takers. Pay 1500 USD for a course, and get guaranteed employment.....it's a big pile of shiite. As mentioned, many would do anything to avoid returning home, where their prospects are pretty dim. Those with wife and kid(s) are desperate, and it is about their only option.

[Loaded]

This is LONG...sorry, but I'm trying to explain the model top down.

Salaries in public schools may vary depending on if you are hired directly by the school or through an agency, I know here in the deep south that public schools receive a gross budget of B45,000 x 12 or B540,000 per year. Now, please rememberer that a school has to sort out a work permit (wp) for you as well, and say allocate 20,000 (by hook or by crook) for that.

The agents typically may receive B40,000-B35,000 per month for employment, and of course there are great variations on that, if you receive 10,11, or 12 months salary can be a bone of contention, but if you need a job, you need a job...right. So from 540k-20k wp = 520k (k=1,000) school pays agent 10*45k=450k (school keeps 70k for "the kids :.))) Agency takes 450k if agent does wp, that depends sometimes, the schools do this even with an agent in place.

Now, what you receive as a teacher, will be what's left 25k-35k for 10/11/12 months.

As far as regional markets go, some of these are turning into "agent" monopolies, which may occur during the bidding process to get the contract for a school, as the agents need to place a physical deposit of cash with the school board, until the final decision is made, this immediately acts as a constriction for new "agencies" to enter the market, and is almost a perpetual circle, where only the "big" agents can continue and dominate. (yes its envelopes with cash...but an open process in that sense, at least officially).

Although, I don't know Chang Mai, but if its not over competitive, it maybe down to a couple of agents "running" the show and no real price competitiveness, and maybe an oversupply of farang teachers compared to the number of "teaching jobs available". In that case you may be better looking at Private schools. Or come down to Surat Thani province, where there is a shortage of native English speaking teachers and 30-35k * 10 months, is OK even with agencies.

My experience NOT a definitive template for Thailand, BUT local models will be close to this.

Jon

A big problem for foreign teachers in Thailand is the farang 'expert' who knows more than the school and agency combined. They don't actually know anything but that doesn't stop fantasy becoming fact.

There are many agencies in Thailand but only a limited number of schools, jobs and teachers. Competition is fierce and margins are often small. A lot smaller than the fantasies of staff-room experts.

From above:

"Although, I don't know Chang Mai,..." I'm about to tell you more fantasy

Salaries are low in Chiang Mai and this is, as many people have already mentioned, because of a willing and enthusiastic pool of foreign teachers who want to work here. Turn Chiang Mai into Nakhon Nowhere and salaries will rise.

[Loaded]

Chiang Mai is a hub for TEFL factories,,,so that adds to the oversupply. Many are taking the course here, because they want to work here (in CM), to begin with. Lots of non-NES (mostly Europeans) have helped to saturate this market. They will take less, but not as little as the Filipinos. CM is also rife with pay to work "programs," with plenty of takers. Pay 1500 USD for a course, and get guaranteed employment.....it's a big pile of shiite. As mentioned, many would do anything to avoid returning home, where their prospects are pretty dim. Those with wife and kid(s) are desperate, and it is about their only option.

Khon Kaen is the centre of failed Westerners with girls they found in cesspits in Pattaya.

Chiang Mai, by and large, doesn't attract the 'desperate with kids' type.

[simon43]

Khon Kaen is the centre of failed Westerners with girls they found in cesspits in Pattaya.

On that basis, teaching salaries in KK should be even lower than CM. But I don't think that is the case.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

CM attracts quite a few, who obviously aren't interested in making kids...lol. Wages are higher in KKN, make no mistake about it. White face, real degree, NES is worth 5-12K more per month in KKN, with much less competition for jobs.

[cmsally]

CM attracts quite a few, who obviously aren't interested in making kids...lol. Wages are higher in KKN, make no mistake about it. White face, real degree, NES is worth 5-12K more per month in KKN, with much less competition for jobs.

Actually now I come to think about it, twice in the last few months I have got into conversation with some Brits who teach in Khon Kaen. All of these used to teach in Chiang Mai but found better pay/schools in Khon Kaen. One I talked to in some detail said she tried 2 schools in Chiang Mai. but preferred the teaching in Khon Kaen. Don't remember what they were getting paid but it wasn't less in KK. It was either the same or more. The big thing for them was that they preferred the school management/owners.

[Loaded]

Khon Kaen is the centre of failed Westerners with girls they found in cesspits in Pattaya.

On that basis, teaching salaries in KK should be even lower than CM. But I don't think that is the case.

You haven't quite grasped the point I made about supply and demand of teachers, and teachers' salaries.

[SABloke]

more like trolling.

Is it trolling to initiate a discussion about the apparent low salary levels in CM? You have got a weird idea of what trolling is

I also find it interesting that the salaries are so low...I'd wager that Phuket, Chonburi and Bangkok have much bigger foreign populations yet the salaries there now start at 35 - 40 for a stock standard government school. I also believe that each government school has an allocated budget for a foreign teacher of X Baht and the rate is the same for ALL government schools so if they're paying 25k in Chiang Mai then the director is taking a huge cut. Maybe the other poster was right...the CM crowd don't like to be told that they're getting shafted (and lung cancer

I should add that I love Chiang Mai and wanted to move there a few years ago....it was the low salaries that kept me away (50k for international school ), because the cost of living was not much lower than Bangkok.

Edited May 20, 2016 by SABloke

[NanLaew]

It appears that they have a lot of prickly pears in CM... or at least a couple.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

You have too much time on your hands.

Yes you're right. I have plenty of time on my hands to think and discuss a HUGE range of topics.

Why does Mars look red? (I'm not going to live there, but I'm still interested).

Why are there so few short ladyboys? (I'm not interested in banging one, but I'm still interested...)

Why did the country of Upper Volta change its name?? etc etc etc

It is called gaining knowledge, rather than living in a bubble

Simon, My brother wants to know why homeless guys always seem to have a full head of hair....if you find out; let me know.

[PocoLoco]

Would you like to put money on your 95% guarantee. People are not here because of the cheap rent, people are here because they like the place and they don't want to live in a huge metropolis like Bangkok.

People live in CHiang Mai because it's a much cheaper place than Bangkok. Look at the thousands of so called "digital nomads" (who are just like dirty backpackers to me), they all stay in Chiang Mai because it's cheap.

[SoiBiker]

You get what you pay for.

[Rob13]

I'm just here for the smokey air and 40+ temperatures. I'll probably leave next week.

[PocoLoco]

The reason you live there...?

Bangkok for me, nothing else. Now go back to working on your "digital nomad blog" in your 300 baht per night room.

[losworld]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Edited May 22, 2016 by losworld

[KhonKaenKowboy]

This guy, who recruits on some of the Facebook teacher pages, won't even show his "face." It's that dodgy. I've also wondered about the legality of a US citizen recruiting workers for jobs that pay less than minimum wage.

[johnatong]

This guy, who recruits on some of the Facebook teacher pages, won't even show his "face." It's that dodgy. I've also wondered about the legality of a US citizen recruiting workers for jobs that pay less than minimum wage.

It would seem there are many who, at whatever price, are "desperate" to remain in Thailand, legally or not.

These fools are easily exploited!

No sympathy ---------eventually most will be caught, fined, jailed, deported and Banned.

[amykat]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Hey, I was going to say that!! Thanks for your post !!

[KhonKaenKowboy]

12 years ago, they were making jokes about teachers willing to work upcountry for Changs.....they should probably change it to small Archas, now. I really enjoyed my teaching jobs in the US, which were mostly substitute. It was a challenge, and it paid the bills; nothing else. Doing 6 or 7 real estate deals on the side totally made the difference in me having money or not having money. I don't think I was ever at school after 16:00 in twenty years....and the only Saturday I worked was driving the students to the swim meet, and getting 24 per hour for 12 hours, to sit on my rump and wait for them. There was lots of turnover and lots of despair, and those people were starting at 40K USD per year. It's not for the faint hearted, at any price. But to be a clown, for 5 usd per hour? You have got to be kidding me.

[johnatong]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Agencies are not the problem it is the foreigners who USE "agencies" who are the problem ...............

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Agencies are not the problem it is the foreigners who USE "agencies" who are the problem ...............

How about the people paying 1500 for a two week course and getting guaranteed employment? Reports were that good ole Bruce had them out there teaching on the third day.

[amykat]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Agencies are not the problem it is the foreigners who USE "agencies" who are the problem ...............

No it isn't the foreigners who USE agencies ...it is because schools won't hire directly because it goes against the mafia program of creaming off part of the wages for the agent and kicking some of it back to certain individuals who control the hiring at the schools.

[SABloke]

Don't believe some of the bs posts. Lung Jon hit the nail on the head. A few guys here are agents. Agencies are the problem and why wages have not gone up for teachers in 10 or 20 years. The agenices keep the money... so if a school has 45k these lazy greedy sleazdballs give a kickback to the school then offer a teacher 25 or 30k often not even paying for the off months. These guys should be tarred, feathered and run out of town. They are the problem.!

Agencies are not the problem it is the foreigners who USE "agencies" who are the problem ...............

No it isn't the foreigners who USE agencies ...it is because schools won't hire directly because it goes against the mafia program of creaming off part of the wages for the agent and kicking some of it back to certain individuals who control the hiring at the schools.

Also, agencies are classified as ''informal schools'' which allows them to get work permits for ''informal teachers'' who do not need a degree and then the governmenr schools can get legal teachers without the drag of the usual legal requirement of a degree to teach in a OBEC school

So MAYBE the poster that used ''supply and demand'' as a reason was correct: there's a large supply of uneducated foreigners who are willing to work for peanuts

[puukao]

a supply of people and nobody seems to care if the kids really lean English, just look the role and that is 80% of getting the job. It's simple exploitation of humans, done all over the world. if there wasn't 100 people begging to work a bad job, the salary would be higher.

i think they should drop the salary to 10,000 baht a year with work permit. get the college kids on gap year or vegans who use youtube and make they work as long as possible. have them sign stuff and control these slaves!!!!

i want money, i need a teacher, i hire kids and then i make more money!!!!!!!!!