Taiwan installs 1st woman president amid tension with China

[webfact]

Taiwan installs 1st woman president amid tension with China
RALPH JENNINGS, Associated Press
JOHNSON LAI, Associated Press

TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — Taiwan inaugurated Tsai Ing-wen as its first female president on Friday, returning the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party to power amid new concerns over increasingly fractious relations with Beijing and a flagging economy.

Tsai took the oath of office at the Presidential Office Building in the capital Taipei before a national flag and portrait of Sun Yat-sen, the founder of the Republic of China that relocated to Taiwan in 1949 as the communists swept to power on the Chinese mainland.

China claims Taiwan as its own territory and has responded to Tsai's election by intensifying pressure on the island with military exercises, diplomatic moves and cross-border deportations.

At home, Tsai faces an economy that has fallen into a recession as exports have dropped due to sluggish demand.

Tsai's swearing in was followed by a presentation in front of the office building featuring performers tracing the island's history from the era of its original aboriginal descendants to colonization by the Netherlands and Japan to the arrival of Chiang Kai-shek's Chinese Nationalist forces at the end of World War II.

Tsai's election in January served as a resounding rejection by voters of the China-friendly party that has led Taiwan for eight years. The polls, which also gave the DPP its first parliamentary majority, were also seen as an expression of concern that the island's economy is under threat from the Chinese mainland's economic juggernaut.

Beijing has warned that delicate relations between the sides will suffer unless Tsai explicitly endorses Beijing's stance that the island and the mainland are part of a single Chinese nation, which it calls the "'92 Consensus." Tsai has avoided doing so, but has promised not to pursue changes to the current status of de facto independence.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-05-20

[Publicus]

The 1992 agreement of "one country, two systems" was signed by the Nationalist party in government but it hasn't ever been accepted by the party of President Tsai, the Democratic Progressive Party. DPP constitution says Taiwan is an independent nation.

This is the first time voters have given DPP the presidency and the parliament. Tsai's first legislative proposal is the Supervisory Act which will require thorough public hearings by the parliament of any trade or economic agreement between the island and the mainland.

Beijing hasn't ever been big on openness. Or the DPP.

[tonbridgebrit]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-taiwan-china-tourism-idUKKCN0Y305Q

Quote from the above Reuters article : ["China and Taiwan have added tourism to their bones of contention since the pro-independence opposition swept to power in January elections, trading accusations about who is to blame for a decline in Chinese visitors to the self-ruled island".]

And [Now the Chinese tourists who visit Taiwan - 4.2 million last year - have become the focus of discord.

The number fell 10 percent on month to 363,878 in March, according to Taiwan's Tourism Bureau.

That is still up on a year ago, but those who service the visitors, including the bus companies that shuttle tour groups around, say they are feeling the pinch.

"Chinese tourists took about 4,000 tour buses a month this time around last year, but now it's only 2,800," said Lu Shiao-ya, chief of the National Joint Association of Tourist Buses.]



Taiwan, please get real. It's not just Pattaya that is getting a mass of Chinese tourists. You, Taiwan, you're also receiving a whole load. You also trade more with China than any other place on planet earth. It's the economy that counts, not your political ideology.

Don't antagonize Beijing, and your economy should be okay. Go and antagonize Beijing, well, your economy will contract, there will be problems.

[LawrenceChee]

It's a reality that hospitality business from the Chinese groups are taking a beating and will see their business slide

This is a volume market driven by Low margins and while many have jumped into the bandwagon worldwide thinking the stream of cap wearing Chinese from tier 3/4 cities will be endless ....it was a wrong calculation.

Hong Kong and Taiwan will slide further on the scale of popularity

It started as a novelty factor to head to Taiwan but as the drive for domestic tourism grows by the CCP , much of what is offered in Taiwan can be found in various parts of China

For the Chinese , the glam factor is still Japan, Korea , Singapore in that order for Asia destinations

She will do well to heed the economic signals and let's see if Uncle Sam has any spare change to bail them out ...seeing USA are distracted in SCS and realising ASEAN is a difficult and expensive one to buy off when you are not exactly rich

[Publicus]

Trolling again Lawrence.

US is not bailing out Taiwan as if Taiwan needed or wanted a bailout now or at anytime forward. Pres Tsai was elected on the platform of weaning the country off the CCP failing economy to connect instead with new and richer markets in East Asia, North America, Europe.

Your troll point number two concerning Asean needs to be corrected by saying Asean has been profoundly concerned about CCP in the SCS and elsewhere since the 1970s. US isn't buying either Taiwan or Asean or anyone else in the region. CCP has scared Asean and others throughout the region since it attacked the Paracels and killed Vietnamese there (then unsuccessfully invaded VN in a disastrous adventure).

Hence the 2002 Code of Conduct Asean spent several years negotiating with CCP and which CCP demolished in 2012 at the Asean annual meeting, along with an Asean proposed Declaration of the Parties on the South China Sea. Most people haven't any clue how Asean fears and is resisting CCP Dictators on almost all fronts during the past 20 years and presently in the SCS especially.

President Tsai's Democratic Progressive Party never has agreed to or recognised the 1992 "one country, two swindles systems" policy pulled out of a hat by Beijing to entrap Taiwan. The agreement was signed by the Nationalist government which has observed it since. DPP has been clear in ignoring the agreement, and DPP has had nothing to do with it.

Taiwan is moving away from the past eight years of the Nationalist government selling out to the mainland at unprecedented rates and volumes in economics, trade, politics....the works. This is the first time DPP has won the presidency and the parliament. The Sunflower Revolution of 2014 constituted the radical change in this respect and the Sunflower movement continues to drive the public policies of the voters and the new government.

Taiwan knows what it is doing and why, which is more than anyone can say of the CCP Dictators in Beijing who have no contact with reality. CCP in Beijing anyway considers DPP as the enemy no matter what the present government of Taiwan does or doesn't do. The one thing most everyone expects US to do in 2017 is to make a "Big Bang" defense sale to Taiwan given there hasn't been anything significant in this respect for the past ten years.

The times they're a-changin on Taiwan, on the mainland as its economy continues to fail, and in the USA with Asean, Japan, Australia, India, as the CCP Dictators crank up domestic nationalism due to the population seeing their (empty) advances of the past 25 years recede and evaporate. The latter was anyway inevitable.

[keemapoot]

I agree on the surface this news looks portentous, I would't read too much into it now. I agree with Lawrence that the downward trend in tourism is predictable for the reasons he stated, though there will also obviously be some further reduction in this area now. I think Pub overstates the DPP and current government situation (as usual with anything China ) and that this may signal return to some state, but certainly not an open conflict on the "one country, two systems" policy between the two countries. Sure, there may be increased arms sales and other bellicose language coming out of the two camps, but I think Beijing will continue to wait this out. Meanwhile, Taiwan continues to enjoy the mainland as its workshop and backyard playground.

Every Taiwan partner I have is deeply invested in the mainland, and the mainland serves as the workshop to Taiwan, without which, it would be uncompetitive and fail. Similarly, there are too many US and global companies that rely on Taiwan suppliers (who source and make in China) to let a conflict arise. Not only that, Chinese companies are deeply vested in Taiwan companies now as well. It's a right mess of nepotism and interwebs. Finally, private equity firms worldwide are now invested in a complex number of funds that are interconnected in this matter as well.

There are too many interconnected and vested interests in Taiwan & China and worldwide to allow relations to return to conflict and the cold, as much as Pub would like to see it.

[sanukjim]

There a couple of days a month that China does not want to screw with her.(no pun intended).She is very tough and headstrong.

[tonbridgebrit]

"The polls, which also gave the DPP its first parliamentary majority, were also seen as an expression of concern that the island's economy is under threat from the Chinese mainland's economic juggernaut."


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tw.html

Okay, the above is from the CIA World Factbook. Taiwan's exports are to "China 27.1%, Hong Kong 13.2%, US 10.3%, Japan 6.4%, Singapore 4.4%". And Taiwan's imports are from "Japan 17.6%, China 16.1%, US 9.5%".


Okay, Ms Tsai, what are you going to do ? Them Chinese tourists. Do you want to advertise Taiwan to Japan and America, and hope that Japanese and American tourists will replace them Chinese tourists ? Do you want to see Taiwan export LESS to China ? Do you want to see Taiwan import LESS from China ?

Come on Taiwan, you're just as addicted to the cheap Chinese goods as everybody else is. And you're just as addicted to the Chinese tourists as everybody else.

[LawrenceChee]

Keemapoot is right on 2 accounts

China will go through ebbs and flow with Taiwan in its relationship , it's frankly useless to mainland China to retake it forcefully , that's not much on Taiwan that is not replicated in many mainland cities

The whole point of keeping this tension up and down is political pride on both sides

Both sides are fully integrated and every Taiwanese president knows any complete departure from mainland China is impossible.

Everyone who needs an example of rhetoric political and trading with China.

[Publicus]

I agree on the surface this news looks portentous, I would't read too much into it now. I agree with Lawrence that the downward trend in tourism is predictable for the reasons he stated, though there will also obviously be some further reduction in this area now. I think Pub overstates the DPP and current government situation (as usual with anything China ) and that this may signal return to some state, but certainly not an open conflict on the "one country, two systems" policy between the two countries. Sure, there may be increased arms sales and other bellicose language coming out of the two camps, but I think Beijing will continue to wait this out. Meanwhile, Taiwan continues to enjoy the mainland as its workshop and backyard playground.

Every Taiwan partner I have is deeply invested in the mainland, and the mainland serves as the workshop to Taiwan, without which, it would be uncompetitive and fail. Similarly, there are too many US and global companies that rely on Taiwan suppliers (who source and make in China) to let a conflict arise. Not only that, Chinese companies are deeply vested in Taiwan companies now as well. It's a right mess of nepotism and interwebs. Finally, private equity firms worldwide are now invested in a complex number of funds that are interconnected in this matter as well.

There are too many interconnected and vested interests in Taiwan & China and worldwide to allow relations to return to conflict and the cold, as much as Pub would like to see it.

Misrepresenting this poster is neither good form nor is it welcome. So it looks like the green team over there and the blue team over here are going to have to resume play.

1) President Tsai Ing-wei campaigned on the status quo in respect of the "one country, two systems" agreement initiated in 1992 between the Kuomintang government and the CCP Boyz of Beijing. Beijing is well aware Pres. Tsai and the Democratic Progressive Party have never accepted the deal, and that DPP won't ever accept it. Yet CCP is now insisting Pres. Tsai accept it openly and formally. CCP Dictators in Beijing will soon be demanding Pres. Hsai accept it. Given also that in Hong Kong the "one country, two systems" scheme is being used by Beijing to try to stop universal suffrage, people on Taiwan have taken notice, led by the Sunflower Revolution of 2014 that seized parliament to stop cold a one too many trade sellout.

Taiwan Sunflower Revolt during spring 2014 seized the parliament and held it for 31 days before

police took action.

2) Pres Tsai has a strong background in trade so she is reasonably diversifying and expanding Taiwan's markets to Japan, North America, the EU. The previous KMT government had spent eight years focused almost solely on the mainland CCP. The only direct consequence for Taiwan has been record high housing prices and a stagnant GDP as the mainland has sucked up almost all the benefits of the 19 secret and one-sided agreements handed over by the KMT government.

3) The political-economic centerpiece of Tsai's campaign is the Supervisory Law that is now her first legislative priority, to right the one-sided secretive agreements between Beijing and their boy who is now former President, Ma Ying-jeou. Under the proposal, all new trade and economic deals with the mainland will need specific parliamentary examination and approval in each of their three stages, i.e., before negotiations begin, during negotiations and before anything is signed. This is a pivot away from the mainland without trying to reverse anything significant or substantial between 'em. The hope is in this respect that existing one-sided swindles can be amended more properly toward Taiwan and its population.

4) Since the election CCP Dictators in Beijing have been conducting war maneuvers on its side of the Taiwan Strait. CCP got Taiwan observers evicted from OECD and a few other global organisations. For what? Diversifying its economy?? If CCP is going to obstruct President Tsai and her DPP majority in the parliament, then CCP Dictators will be forcing all issues on Taiwan which wants instead a political status quo and economic growth independent of the CCP's state owned corporations and their CCP party hacks.

And for Taiwan to develop further without menacing maneuvers by PLA. Indeed, citizens of Taiwan and Hong Kong have connected themselves strongly during recent years especially, to include personal visits among 'em. Taiwan continues to watch the Dictators behaviors in HKG as citizens in HKG continue to watch CCP's mistreatment of Taiwanese. The onus here is on CCP Dictators in Beijing to accept the political status quo on Taiwan while simultaneously recognising Taiwan's need to expand and diversify its economy to get the growth its connections to the mainland have notoriously failed to provide.

[LawrenceChee]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

[Publicus]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

[keemapoot]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

Hehe, the first time I went to Taipei, as a young man, my hosts gave me the royal treatment, and I'm sure you know all that entails. One of the things I didn't plan on was a visit to Huaxi Snake Alley, where, after being treated to the show of the mongoose killing it, I had to eat cobra & drink its blood & bile to prove I was tough enough. Yuck!

Today, Taiwanese don't have to prove they're tough or think about one-sided trade agreements and other such things. They just get down and do business with China, any old which way but loose. And, what continues to make the Taiwanese reliable business partners, and always has, is that they really perform up to western standards and always have. They have dealt with the payment and quality and technical IP problems in China and insulted the west from that. They still remain a good gateway to China and China does not want to disturb that.

So, concern for the people of Taiwan is misplaced. They are taking care of biz fine thanks.

[LawrenceChee]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

[Publicus]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

The statement has a context that is more than obvious which accounts for this poster's specific statement in reply to an endless trolling.

No comment I see on the unaware and blathering reference by you to the "Chinese race." This poster reiterates that where the Old World notions of race continue to exist as the basis of national identity there is racism. Guaranteed. Pervasively. With an absolute absence of any negatives involved and with a great deal of cultural self-comfort.

[Publicus]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

Lenovo.

It is of course infested so that the interruptions and obstructions occur 24/7. Which is why I have to edit almost all my posts.

My Saturday wuz good thx to include the Saturday CCP had in their own place. It wuz a hard day for 'em as they well know. Another hard day on 'em. Can't think of anyone more deserving of it than the CCP Boyz themselves are.

Blue team here is in fact running up the score.

[LawrenceChee]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

Lenovo.

It is of course infested so that the interruptions and obstructions occur 24/7. Which is why I have to edit almost all my posts.

My Saturday wuz good thx to include the Saturday CCP had in their own place. It wuz a hard day for 'em as they well know. Another hard day on 'em. Can't think of anyone more deserving of it than the CCP Boyz themselves are.

Blue team here is in fact running up the score.

Use a macbook and join the cool gang mate enjoy the weekend ...on the way to London to see what the Queen has to sell

[ilostmypassword]

It's a reality that hospitality business from the Chinese groups are taking a beating and will see their business slide

This is a volume market driven by Low margins and while many have jumped into the bandwagon worldwide thinking the stream of cap wearing Chinese from tier 3/4 cities will be endless ....it was a wrong calculation.

Hong Kong and Taiwan will slide further on the scale of popularity

It started as a novelty factor to head to Taiwan but as the drive for domestic tourism grows by the CCP , much of what is offered in Taiwan can be found in various parts of China

For the Chinese , the glam factor is still Japan, Korea , Singapore in that order for Asia destinations

She will do well to heed the economic signals and let's see if Uncle Sam has any spare change to bail them out ...seeing USA are distracted in SCS and realising ASEAN is a difficult and expensive one to buy off when you are not exactly rich

I believe what can be still be found in Taiwan but is lacking in China are certain Confucian values like honesty in business and politeness. The cultural revolution pretty much destroyed that in China. At one time Chinese business people had an extraordinarily high reputation for honesty in business. Now the rule is watch your back when doing business in China.

[ilostmypassword]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

So, do you maintain that the Chinese are a separate race?

[LawrenceChee]

It's a reality that hospitality business from the Chinese groups are taking a beating and will see their business slide

This is a volume market driven by Low margins and while many have jumped into the bandwagon worldwide thinking the stream of cap wearing Chinese from tier 3/4 cities will be endless ....it was a wrong calculation.

Hong Kong and Taiwan will slide further on the scale of popularity

It started as a novelty factor to head to Taiwan but as the drive for domestic tourism grows by the CCP , much of what is offered in Taiwan can be found in various parts of China

For the Chinese , the glam factor is still Japan, Korea , Singapore in that order for Asia destinations

She will do well to heed the economic signals and let's see if Uncle Sam has any spare change to bail them out ...seeing USA are distracted in SCS and realising ASEAN is a difficult and expensive one to buy off when you are not exactly rich

I believe what can be still be found in Taiwan but is lacking in China are certain Confucian values like honesty in business and politeness. The cultural revolution pretty much destroyed that in China. At one time Chinese business people had an extraordinarily high reputation for honesty in business. Now the rule is watch your back when doing business in China.

There are lots of polite people in China ...you just have to be invited to the right circles as not all westerners are polite as well and you can well understand the aversion of them meeting everyone else

Remember 1% of Chinese being nice is 13 million , hard to find in the normal circles but I assure you they are there , decent worried about the environment and has business ethics in managing their P/L

[LawrenceChee]

Any Taiwan president elected who believes they can ebb a living without trading in some form with China is like some posters here driving war rhetorics or believing in unicorn & fairies.

In the meantime the pragmatic Chinese race ( which included HK , Taiwan & mainland Chinese ) continue to trade , do business , conclude business deals while this political show is going on for the sake of the world media and those who think this is the most important

The key message as I and a few other posters have mentioned here is China is patient and will wait out, they won't seize the island as in their previous plans seeing there is little or real benefit to it besides giving the warmongers another " Tiananmen incident " to talk about for the next 100 years

Instead they will continue to engage Taiwan in trade and ties and remind them over time we are all Chinese whether you eat dumpings , wantons, Jiaozi ....

My post pointed out Taiwan will continue to interact economically and in trade with the CCP mainland, and that Taipei will try to amend the many one-sided trade arrangements of the past eight years that benefit the mainland far more than they provide any benefit to the people of Taiwan. The constant misrepresentation of this poster at these threads is becoming chronic to include more than one OTT poster.

the pragmatic Chinese race

How many races are there on the planet. The question is posed here because where there is the Old World mindset of race there is racism. Chinese incessantly continue to think in terms of race, same as they always have thought in terms of race for 7000 years. Unchanging and, worse, unaffected by the modern world and its lessons of the direct consequences of having racial attitudes and ethnic nativism.

Continuing to think in terms of race is divisive rather than unifying. It separates peoples rather than tries to find the common ground. Worst of all and as noted, where people still think of race there is necessarily a concomitant and horrendous racism.

Was not quoting you mate this is an open forum and not only your opinion counts mate

Have a happy Saturday Comrade P ! Are you using an Acer today ?

So, do you maintain that the Chinese are a separate race?

Last time I checked my ID card ...it says Chinese so yes proud to be Chinese !

It's not a separate race ...if you take some time learn how to speak Cantonese , Mandarin or Hokkien like I took the time to learn English we can speak in a different language and appreciate the linguistics

Small perk of learning mandarin - You can understand most signs in Japan

[tonbridgebrit]

We're now talking about racism.

Are ethnic Chinese more racist towards Europeans, or, are Europeans more racist towards Chinese people ?

See, in Europe, you see a Chinese man walking along a road. And what happens ? European people walk up to him, and put their fingers to the sides of their eyes and pull the skin backwards, to make their eyes more slitty. After doing that, they start doing karate chops in mid-air, and they might put their hands together and do a 'wai' in front of the Chinese person. The 'wai' is done in a mocking way, bearing in mind that most people in Europe simply don't know about the Thai 'wai'. Most people in Europe have never been to Thailand, and hence, never seen a 'wai'.


This is done to ALL Chinese people, people of the Chinese race. They are from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, it's the same thing. Actually, Chinese-Thais get the same treatment.

And when I say European people, well, I include Americans with European ancestry.

[GinBoy2]

Lawrence I actually do speak Mandarin after living many years in Taiwan, apartment almost directly above Guting station in Taipei actually.

The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,

The Peoples army army could have rolled across the border into Hong Kong anytime they wanted, but the 1997 settlement wasn't ever designed to satisfy the British, it was to lure Taiwan, a vision of what might be possible. Beijing never cared about HK, it wanted Taiwan.

As time has gone by since 1997, I think even the patient Mandarins in Beijing have tired of the waiting game, hence the tightening of the screws in Hong Kong, which in turn has seen the re-emergence of the independence movement in Taiwan.

[ilostmypassword]

We're now talking about racism.

Are ethnic Chinese more racist towards Europeans, or, are Europeans more racist towards Chinese people ?

See, in Europe, you see a Chinese man walking along a road. And what happens ? European people walk up to him, and put their fingers to the sides of their eyes and pull the skin backwards, to make their eyes more slitty. After doing that, they start doing karate chops in mid-air, and they might put their hands together and do a 'wai' in front of the Chinese person. The 'wai' is done in a mocking way, bearing in mind that most people in Europe simply don't know about the Thai 'wai'. Most people in Europe have never been to Thailand, and hence, never seen a 'wai'.

This is done to ALL Chinese people, people of the Chinese race. They are from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, it's the same thing. Actually, Chinese-Thais get the same treatment.

And when I say European people, well, I include Americans with European ancestry.

article-0-0256B58100000578-909_468x286.jpg

This is just plain nuts.

[LawrenceChee]

Lawrence I actually do speak Mandarin after living many years in Taiwan, apartment almost directly above Guting station in Taipei actually.

The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,

The Peoples army army could have rolled across the border into Hong Kong anytime they wanted, but the 1997 settlement wasn't ever designed to satisfy the British, it was to lure Taiwan, a vision of what might be possible. Beijing never cared about HK, it wanted Taiwan.

As time has gone by since 1997, I think even the patient Mandarins in Beijing have tired of the waiting game, hence the tightening of the screws in Hong Kong, which in turn has seen the re-emergence of the independence movement in Taiwan.

That's great to learn you speak the language and hopefully one of these days we will meet and exchange ideas and opinion

I honestly believe both are wanted. HK is a little spoiled Cousin after some earl grey on the side but Taiwan has all the nice treasures that belong to the imperial palace ...I hope one day it will return there to its full glory inside the forbidden city

[tonbridgebrit]

We're now talking about racism.

Are ethnic Chinese more racist towards Europeans, or, are Europeans more racist towards Chinese people ?

See, in Europe, you see a Chinese man walking along a road. And what happens ? European people walk up to him, and put their fingers to the sides of their eyes and pull the skin backwards, to make their eyes more slitty. After doing that, they start doing karate chops in mid-air, and they might put their hands together and do a 'wai' in front of the Chinese person. The 'wai' is done in a mocking way, bearing in mind that most people in Europe simply don't know about the Thai 'wai'. Most people in Europe have never been to Thailand, and hence, never seen a 'wai'.

This is done to ALL Chinese people, people of the Chinese race. They are from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, it's the same thing. Actually, Chinese-Thais get the same treatment.

And when I say European people, well, I include Americans with European ancestry.

article-0-0256B58100000578-909_468x286.jpg

This is just plain nuts.

Yes, but it does happen, right ?

And for any Thai Visa readers who can see this, if you don't think it happens, well, get yourself a Thai girlfriend or wife who is an ehnic Chinese. Try and take her back to Britain/Europe/Canada/Australia.

Your family and friends will have no problems with her regarding her race, off-course not. It's when your Thai bird turns up at public places, yes, only a small percentage of people will laugh at her face, but it does happen. Turning up at the local nightclub, and local women (they might be 'white' or 'black' women) start giving your Thai bird some grief. Racism does exist.

Actually, even if your bird is South Korean or Japanese, it still happens.

[tonbridgebrit]

Lawrence I actually do speak Mandarin after living many years in Taiwan, apartment almost directly above Guting station in Taipei actually.

The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,

The Peoples army army could have rolled across the border into Hong Kong anytime they wanted, but the 1997 settlement wasn't ever designed to satisfy the British, it was to lure Taiwan, a vision of what might be possible. Beijing never cared about HK, it wanted Taiwan.

As time has gone by since 1997, I think even the patient Mandarins in Beijing have tired of the waiting game, hence the tightening of the screws in Hong Kong, which in turn has seen the re-emergence of the independence movement in Taiwan.

"The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,".

But, Sir, surely, you accept that Taiwan has received massive benefits from main-land China ?

I mean, Taiwan is allowed to export it's goods to China with minimal taxes and tariffs. Notice how American and European Union goods are taxed when they enter China. And notice how Taiwan receives a load of tourists from main-land China. Also, Taiwan men go to China, marry a lady, and then take the lady to Taiwan.

Taiwan has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. How many Taiwan babies are actually from mainland-Chinese women ??

[tonbridgebrit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10364381


And here is a BBC article about the low birth rate in Taiwan. Yes, one of the lowest in the world.

People who know about Taiwan, they know that Taiwan's biggest problem is not China, it's not pollution by coal, it's not economic stagnation. Taiwan's biggest problem is, is NOT enough babies are being born in Taiwan. Yes, Taiwan has to import main-land Chinese women to give birth to the next generation of Taiwan's people. This is the real issue regarding Taiwan.

[tonbridgebrit]

Tsai Ing Wen.

You are a reasonably beautiful Chinese lady. But you have not given birth to any Taiwanese babies. Are you a good example to Taiwan's women ??

Your Taiwan needs more babies. Oh, you need some main-land Chinese women to make some Taiwanese babies for you ? Why don't you go and tell your own Taiwanese women to make more Taiwanese babies ? Got to stop relying on China to give you more babies.


How are YOU going to increase Taiwan's very low birth-rate ? That's the real issue.

[GinBoy2]

Lawrence I actually do speak Mandarin after living many years in Taiwan, apartment almost directly above Guting station in Taipei actually.

The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,

The Peoples army army could have rolled across the border into Hong Kong anytime they wanted, but the 1997 settlement wasn't ever designed to satisfy the British, it was to lure Taiwan, a vision of what might be possible. Beijing never cared about HK, it wanted Taiwan.

As time has gone by since 1997, I think even the patient Mandarins in Beijing have tired of the waiting game, hence the tightening of the screws in Hong Kong, which in turn has seen the re-emergence of the independence movement in Taiwan.

"The problem that Beijing is dealing with is that the Taiwanese have woken up to the fact that the one country two system myth is unraveling fast,".

But, Sir, surely, you accept that Taiwan has received massive benefits from main-land China ?

I mean, Taiwan is allowed to export it's goods to China with minimal taxes and tariffs. Notice how American and European Union goods are taxed when they enter China. And notice how Taiwan receives a load of tourists from main-land China. Also, Taiwan men go to China, marry a lady, and then take the lady to Taiwan.

Taiwan has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. How many Taiwan babies are actually from mainland-Chinese women ??

Actually I don't accept that at all.

I lived there through the whole time of the KMT rapprochement with Beijing and if anything it did nothing but bad things to the Taiwan economy.

OK Taiwanese men working having second wives in the mainland, well that's sex not really significant to the economic well being of a nation.

Taiwan has suffered a very similar trade imbalance with China to the US, but Taiwan's economy is so much smaller it's hurt much more than the US