NE people unhappy with life after military take-over

[MZurf]

"Well, it's save to assume you came with reasoning to blame the junta again. IMHO."

You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

[JimGant]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Touche. That statement should go without saying in a reality based, vice idealist based, scenario. And even reality, unfortunately, can get lost in a 'cause and effect' scenario. So, yeah, interviewing the NE farmer whose economics have gone south since the coup -- he'll say things would be better of with a red tinted government -- 'cause they *were* better off when such a government was in office.

But would economics in Thailand be better off with a freely elected government? I don't know, but I doubt it. I think the junta is trying its best to get the country as a whole moving forward -- even hiring the best a brightest from former red regimes. The drought, however, certainly casts a pall on the junta -- as if they control the weather.

No, the NE farmer is human, and thus yearns for the better times under the reds -- and thus misperceives the current 'cause and effect' of his unhappiness. Of course, he's helped into this misperception by the red seditio....., er politicians, whose knowledge of economics, if any, probably comes from Das Kapital.

No, if the economy were headed north -- or even if the junta was perceived as trying to do its best -- I don't believe much, if any, sleep would be lost by the man in the street (or field). It certainly isn't in China or Vietnam. Only when the rabble rousers -- and ivory tower types -- stir the pot with idealism, will the man in the soi wake up unhappy.

As an aside, too bad Obama didn't pull a "Vietnam" with a visit to Thailand -- granting all the aid and assistance Thailand wanted, with only a slight nod towards human rights issues. Realpolitik in action. So why does the US Ambassador continue to beat up on Thailand, while going soft on its new best buddy Vietnam? Sickening. Oh well, the US has the same "the grass is always greener" mentality that Thailand has when it comes to politics. So when Trump gets sworn in, can we all then agree that Democracy ain't all it's cracked up to be?

[heybruce]

Do an internet search on the words "regions thailand". You'll find that every source puts Bangkok in the central region, and the junta serves Bangkok and its elite.

I'm a country boy, just like I don't see Amsterdam as part of Holland, or London as part of the Home Counties I don't see Bangkok as part of the Central Region. Certainly like in London most people in Bangkok seem to come from elsewhere.

Anyway, the reasoning gKid gave seems valid for the last six years and the main difference is now no flooding, but drought and now no RPPS.

From your prior post:

"Anyway, the article mentions 'central region' which is the bit above Bangkok upto about Kamphanphet or so."

Since everybody but you puts Bangkok in the central region, it is safe to assume the people conducting the poll did so as well.

Bangkok has always received almost all government investment, 90% in 2000, 72% in 2012. Investment outside of Bangkok, where the majority of Thai people live, was increased under Thaksin, which is why he won every election he entered since 2000. That's also why the Bangkok elite couldn't tolerate him, and welcome a military junta that will make Bangkok the center of all power and wealth, at the expense of the rest of the country.

Hence the pol results--the central region, including Bangkok, is happy, the northeast not so much. Not that I put much faith in Thai polls, but this one at least arrived a conclusions that seem credible.

'it is save to assume'?

Well, it's save to assume you came with reasoning to blame the junta again. IMHO.

Interesting is eight pages of foreign opinions based on an article with almost no content.

I wrote "it is safe to assume". As in "It is safe to assume that you need new glasses."

Regarding my blaming the junta for the poll results, duhhh... My "blaming" came with justification.

[Winniedapu]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Touche. That statement should go without saying in a reality based, vice idealist based, scenario. And even reality, unfortunately, can get lost in a 'cause and effect' scenario. So, yeah, interviewing the NE farmer whose economics have gone south since the coup -- he'll say things would be better of with a red tinted government -- 'cause they *were* better off when such a government was in office.

But would economics in Thailand be better off with a freely elected government? I don't know, but I doubt it. I think the junta is trying its best to get the country as a whole moving forward -- even hiring the best a brightest from former red regimes. The drought, however, certainly casts a pall on the junta -- as if they control the weather.

No, the NE farmer is human, and thus yearns for the better times under the reds -- and thus misperceives the current 'cause and effect' of his unhappiness. Of course, he's helped into this misperception by the red seditio....., er politicians, whose knowledge of economics, if any, probably comes from Das Kapital.

No, if the economy were headed north -- or even if the junta was perceived as trying to do its best -- I don't believe much, if any, sleep would be lost by the man in the street (or field). It certainly isn't in China or Vietnam. Only when the rabble rousers -- and ivory tower types -- stir the pot with idealism, will the man in the soi wake up unhappy.

As an aside, too bad Obama didn't pull a "Vietnam" with a visit to Thailand -- granting all the aid and assistance Thailand wanted, with only a slight nod towards human rights issues. Realpolitik in action. So why does the US Ambassador continue to beat up on Thailand, while going soft on its new best buddy Vietnam? Sickening. Oh well, the US has the same "the grass is always greener" mentality that Thailand has when it comes to politics. So when Trump gets sworn in, can we all then agree that Democracy ain't all it's cracked up to be?

Fully agree with everything here. Obviously. Why think people in the redshirt stronghold are unhappy because they have an illegal government composed of people who conspired to unseat the elected redshirt government, and than make a coup d'etat?

It just doesn't make any sense, there just has to be another reason. Mars being close to the earth - that'll be it. Or the red moon last month, it might be that... No wait! Too many pythons in toilets...

Or Thaksin...

W

Edited May 27, 2016 by Winniedapu

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Central region = Bangkok

[MZurf]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Touche. That statement should go without saying in a reality based, vice idealist based, scenario. And even reality, unfortunately, can get lost in a 'cause and effect' scenario. So, yeah, interviewing the NE farmer whose economics have gone south since the coup -- he'll say things would be better of with a red tinted government -- 'cause they *were* better off when such a government was in office.

But would economics in Thailand be better off with a freely elected government? I don't know, but I doubt it. I think the junta is trying its best to get the country as a whole moving forward -- even hiring the best a brightest from former red regimes. The drought, however, certainly casts a pall on the junta -- as if they control the weather.

No, the NE farmer is human, and thus yearns for the better times under the reds -- and thus misperceives the current 'cause and effect' of his unhappiness. Of course, he's helped into this misperception by the red seditio....., er politicians, whose knowledge of economics, if any, probably comes from Das Kapital.

No, if the economy were headed north -- or even if the junta was perceived as trying to do its best -- I don't believe much, if any, sleep would be lost by the man in the street (or field). It certainly isn't in China or Vietnam. Only when the rabble rousers -- and ivory tower types -- stir the pot with idealism, will the man in the soi wake up unhappy.

As an aside, too bad Obama didn't pull a "Vietnam" with a visit to Thailand -- granting all the aid and assistance Thailand wanted, with only a slight nod towards human rights issues. Realpolitik in action. So why does the US Ambassador continue to beat up on Thailand, while going soft on its new best buddy Vietnam? Sickening. Oh well, the US has the same "the grass is always greener" mentality that Thailand has when it comes to politics. So when Trump gets sworn in, can we all then agree that Democracy ain't all it's cracked up to be?

" I think the junta is trying its best to get the country as a whole moving forward...."

All I have seen indicates that the junta wants to turn the clock back so I'm curious as to what exactly the junta has done that has made you come to that conclusion?

"No, the NE farmer is human, and thus yearns for the better times under the reds -- and thus misperceives the current 'cause and effect' of his unhappiness. Of course, he's helped into this misperception by the red seditio....., er politicians, whose knowledge of economics, if any, probably comes from Das Kapital."

Here you manage to insult the intelligence of all the farmers (in typical elitist fashion) as well as coming up with things that are patently untrue. Are you saying that the movement led by the bogeyman i Dubai is Marxist? If so then please elaborate. Is it the 20 Baht health care scheme that convinced you they're just a bunch of commies?

"No, if the economy were headed north -- or even if the junta was perceived as trying to do its best -- I don't believe much, if any, sleep would be lost by the man in the street (or field). It certainly isn't in China or Vietnam. Only when the rabble rousers -- and ivory tower types -- stir the pot with idealism, will the man in the soi wake up unhappy."

Again, elitist insults.

"As an aside, too bad Obama didn't pull a "Vietnam" with a visit to Thailand -- granting all the aid and assistance Thailand wanted, with only a slight nod towards human rights issues. Realpolitik in action. So why does the US Ambassador continue to beat up on Thailand, while going soft on its new best buddy Vietnam? Sickening. Oh well, the US has the same "the grass is always greener" mentality that Thailand has when it comes to politics. So when Trump gets sworn in, can we all then agree that Democracy ain't all it's cracked up to be?"

No, we can't. Not unless you explain what it's cranked up to be and (since you obviously prefer another system of governance) come up with an alternative.

[seajae]

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

having their red shirt leaders nullified, no more red shirt favouratism for them and their red brothers from the ptp, having to comply with the laws like everyone else, just a guess of course.......

[halloween]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

The majority of the posts on this thread point the blame for unhappiness at the junta. The drought has certainly affected incomes, it might have has less effect if Yingluk hadn't emptied the storage dams. Those that can grow rice complain about the low price as they compete against the scam stockpile. Inflation has pushed up prices, after the huge hike in minimum wage made everybody rich, for about 6 minutes, or out of work, or struggling to pay employees.

I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. Basics like income, food and shelter, health and relaxation come miles ahead of an election where one self-serving A-hole or another will be chosen. . My views seem to be supported by others from the area. So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?

Edited May 27, 2016 by halloween

[CantSpell]

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

Maybe because they closed too many massage shops

[JimGant]

Actually, I liked Thaksin, and most of his policies, which really were no brainers that the Democrats could have adopted -- if they had had any interest in the little guy. Which they didn't. Populist policies, some of them anyway, can be uplifting without being detrimental. It's when they skate too close to Communism (a la Venezuela) that they become harmful. Not sure where Yingluck's rice scheme falls in this.....

.....and I think Prayuth has learned the lesson, that the Democrats never did, about adopting more, not less, populist policies. To me, that's a plus for the junta crowd.

As for the junta "turning the clock back," I've seen no evidence of that re economics. The appointment of learned folks, like former Thaksin man Somkid, show the junta is trying to move forward, using known entities, regardless of politics. But, would Yingluck's government have surpassed that of the junta ? I guess we can only speculate. But I think not.

As far as my "insulting the intelligence of the farmers," you're the one saying they're unhappy 'cause Yingluck was overthrown by Prayuth. I (and other elitists) are saying that they are unhappy because they have no rice crop -- but they're smart enough to know Prayuth doesn't control the rain. But would they like the reds back in office..... Of course, and they'll show such political leanings whenever they can.

So, Trump getting elected would show that democracy works -- is that what you're implying? Actually, the Founding Fathers tried to limit the electorate to the educated (white, male, land owners, i.e., those most likely to have an education). That later got bastardized so that now every dimwit has the vote. I'd like to see Thailand get a managed democracy like Singapore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy

An illiberal democracy, also called a partial democracy, low intensity democracy, empty democracy, or hybrid regime, is a governing system in which, although elections take place, citizens are cut off from knowledge about the activities of those who exercise real power because of the lack of civil liberties. It is not an "open society". There are many countries "that are categorized as neither 'free' nor 'not free', but as 'probably free', falling somewhere between democratic and nondemocratic regimes".^[2] This may be because a constitution limiting government powers exists, but its liberties are ignored, or because an adequate legal constitutional framework of liberties does not exist. A classic example of an illiberal democracy is the Republic of Singapore.

Obviously, the above is anathema to you. But, sounds good to us elitists....

[MZurf]

Actually, I liked Thaksin, and most of his policies, which really were no brainers that the Democrats could have adopted -- if they had had any interest in the little guy. Which they didn't. Populist policies, some of them anyway, can be uplifting without being detrimental. It's when they skate too close to Communism (a la Venezuela) that they become harmful. Not sure where Yingluck's rice scheme falls in this.....

.....and I think Prayuth has learned the lesson, that the Democrats never did, about adopting more, not less, populist policies. To me, that's a plus for the junta crowd.

As for the junta "turning the clock back," I've seen no evidence of that re economics. The appointment of learned folks, like former Thaksin man Somkid, show the junta is trying to move forward, using known entities, regardless of politics. But, would Yingluck's government have surpassed that of the junta ? I guess we can only speculate. But I think not.

As far as my "insulting the intelligence of the farmers," you're the one saying they're unhappy 'cause Yingluck was overthrown by Prayuth. I (and other elitists) are saying that they are unhappy because they have no rice crop -- but they're smart enough to know Prayuth doesn't control the rain. But would they like the reds back in office..... Of course, and they'll show such political leanings whenever they can.

So, Trump getting elected would show that democracy works -- is that what you're implying? Actually, the Founding Fathers tried to limit the electorate to the educated (white, male, land owners, i.e., those most likely to have an education). That later got bastardized so that now every dimwit has the vote. I'd like to see Thailand get a managed democracy like Singapore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy

An illiberal democracy, also called a partial democracy, low intensity democracy, empty democracy, or hybrid regime, is a governing system in which, although elections take place, citizens are cut off from knowledge about the activities of those who exercise real power because of the lack of civil liberties. It is not an "open society". There are many countries "that are categorized as neither 'free' nor 'not free', but as 'probably free', falling somewhere between democratic and nondemocratic regimes".^[2] This may be because a constitution limiting government powers exists, but its liberties are ignored, or because an adequate legal constitutional framework of liberties does not exist. A classic example of an illiberal democracy is the Republic of Singapore.

Obviously, the above is anathema to you. But, sounds good to us elitists....

" I'd like to see Thailand get a managed democracy like Singapore."

Well, there we have it. Would you like a "managed" democracy in the US as well?

[phoenixdoglover]

Actually, I liked Thaksin, and most of his policies, which really were no brainers that the Democrats could have adopted -- if they had had any interest in the little guy. Which they didn't. Populist policies, some of them anyway, can be uplifting without being detrimental. It's when they skate too close to Communism (a la Venezuela) that they become harmful. Not sure where Yingluck's rice scheme falls in this.....

.....and I think Prayuth has learned the lesson, that the Democrats never did, about adopting more, not less, populist policies. To me, that's a plus for the junta crowd.

As for the junta "turning the clock back," I've seen no evidence of that re economics. The appointment of learned folks, like former Thaksin man Somkid, show the junta is trying to move forward, using known entities, regardless of politics. But, would Yingluck's government have surpassed that of the junta ? I guess we can only speculate. But I think not.

As far as my "insulting the intelligence of the farmers," you're the one saying they're unhappy 'cause Yingluck was overthrown by Prayuth. I (and other elitists) are saying that they are unhappy because they have no rice crop -- but they're smart enough to know Prayuth doesn't control the rain. But would they like the reds back in office..... Of course, and they'll show such political leanings whenever they can.

So, Trump getting elected would show that democracy works -- is that what you're implying? Actually, the Founding Fathers tried to limit the electorate to the educated (white, male, land owners, i.e., those most likely to have an education). That later got bastardized so that now every dimwit has the vote. I'd like to see Thailand get a managed democracy like Singapore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy

An illiberal democracy, also called a partial democracy, low intensity democracy, empty democracy, or hybrid regime, is a governing system in which, although elections take place, citizens are cut off from knowledge about the activities of those who exercise real power because of the lack of civil liberties. It is not an "open society". There are many countries "that are categorized as neither 'free' nor 'not free', but as 'probably free', falling somewhere between democratic and nondemocratic regimes".^[2] This may be because a constitution limiting government powers exists, but its liberties are ignored, or because an adequate legal constitutional framework of liberties does not exist. A classic example of an illiberal democracy is the Republic of Singapore.

Obviously, the above is anathema to you. But, sounds good to us elitists....

Singapore has what in the US we would call a "Strong Mayor" form of government. This is appropriate, considering Singapore is basically a city.

I think Singapore is not a model for many other countries. It is an exception.

[MZurf]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

The majority of the posts on this thread point the blame for unhappiness at the junta. The drought has certainly affected incomes, it might have has less effect if Yingluk hadn't emptied the storage dams. Those that can grow rice complain about the low price as they compete against the scam stockpile. Inflation has pushed up prices, after the huge hike in minimum wage made everybody rich, for about 6 minutes, or out of work, or struggling to pay employees.

I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. Basics like income, food and shelter, health and relaxation come miles ahead of an election where one self-serving A-hole or another will be chosen. . My views seem to be supported by others from the area. So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?

"So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?"

1. I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips.

2. Fixation? Yes, I guess thinking all Thais should be allowed a vote rates as a fixation in your book.

[halloween]

The majority of the posts on this thread point the blame for unhappiness at the junta. The drought has certainly affected incomes, it might have has less effect if Yingluk hadn't emptied the storage dams. Those that can grow rice complain about the low price as they compete against the scam stockpile. Inflation has pushed up prices, after the huge hike in minimum wage made everybody rich, for about 6 minutes, or out of work, or struggling to pay employees.

I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. Basics like income, food and shelter, health and relaxation come miles ahead of an election where one self-serving A-hole or another will be chosen. . My views seem to be supported by others from the area. So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?

"So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?"

1. I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips.

2. Fixation? Yes, I guess thinking all Thais should be allowed a vote rates as a fixation in your book.

Ah, you don't presume.

"You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???"

Again, yes it is unreasonable, without supporting evidence.

Edited May 27, 2016 by halloween

[JimGant]

Well, there we have it. Would you like a "managed" democracy in the US as well?

Only if Trump gets elected.

[MZurf]

The majority of the posts on this thread point the blame for unhappiness at the junta. The drought has certainly affected incomes, it might have has less effect if Yingluk hadn't emptied the storage dams. Those that can grow rice complain about the low price as they compete against the scam stockpile. Inflation has pushed up prices, after the huge hike in minimum wage made everybody rich, for about 6 minutes, or out of work, or struggling to pay employees.

I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. Basics like income, food and shelter, health and relaxation come miles ahead of an election where one self-serving A-hole or another will be chosen. . My views seem to be supported by others from the area. So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?

"So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?"

1. I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips.

2. Fixation? Yes, I guess thinking all Thais should be allowed a vote rates as a fixation in your book.

Ah, you don't presume.

"You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???"

Again, yes it is unreasonable, without supporting evidence.

"I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. "

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

[halloween]

The majority of the posts on this thread point the blame for unhappiness at the junta. The drought has certainly affected incomes, it might have has less effect if Yingluk hadn't emptied the storage dams. Those that can grow rice complain about the low price as they compete against the scam stockpile. Inflation has pushed up prices, after the huge hike in minimum wage made everybody rich, for about 6 minutes, or out of work, or struggling to pay employees.

I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. Basics like income, food and shelter, health and relaxation come miles ahead of an election where one self-serving A-hole or another will be chosen. . My views seem to be supported by others from the area. So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?

"So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?"

1. I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips.

2. Fixation? Yes, I guess thinking all Thais should be allowed a vote rates as a fixation in your book.

Ah, you don't presume.

"You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???"

Again, yes it is unreasonable, without supporting evidence.

"I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. "

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

So NOW you do presume?

[MZurf]

"So where do you get the idea that elections rank as highly as in your fixation?"

1. I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips.

2. Fixation? Yes, I guess thinking all Thais should be allowed a vote rates as a fixation in your book.

Ah, you don't presume.

"You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???"

Again, yes it is unreasonable, without supporting evidence.

"I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. "

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

So NOW you do presume?

I was asking you a question, and since you appear to have a particularly slow day I will repeat it:

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

[halloween]

Ah, you don't presume.

"You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???"

Again, yes it is unreasonable, without supporting evidence.

"I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. "

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

So NOW you do presume?

I was asking you a question, and since you appear to have a particularly slow day I will repeat it:

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

You will forgive me, on my slow days I sometimes forget the imperative of answering all you questions. Contradictory statements add to the difficulty of comprehension.

"I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips."

Given your prior statement, I had no idea you were talking about yourself. So the answer is yes. But what has that to do with you and your presumption or lack of it? Which is it?

[MZurf]

"I gain my information from travelling to the NE to visit family, and talking to the locals here on Samui, most from parts north of BKK,and a lifetime experience of human nature. "

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

So NOW you do presume?

I was asking you a question, and since you appear to have a particularly slow day I will repeat it:

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

You will forgive me, on my slow days I sometimes forget the imperative of answering all you questions. Contradictory statements add to the difficulty of comprehension.

"I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips."

Given your prior statement, I had no idea you were talking about yourself. So the answer is yes. But what has that to do with you and your presumption or lack of it? Which is it?

"So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?"

That was the question, and your answer:

"So the answer is yes."

And you still expect people to take you seriously?

[halloween]

So NOW you do presume?

I was asking you a question, and since you appear to have a particularly slow day I will repeat it:

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

You will forgive me, on my slow days I sometimes forget the imperative of answering all you questions. Contradictory statements add to the difficulty of comprehension.

"I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips."

Given your prior statement, I had no idea you were talking about yourself. So the answer is yes. But what has that to do with you and your presumption or lack of it? Which is it?

"So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?"

That was the question, and your answer:

"So the answer is yes."

And you still expect people to take you seriously?

As the answer wasn't meant to be taken seriously, no I don't. But don't feel any urgency or even imperative to answer my questions regarding your conflicting statements.

Do you actually speak to NE and northern Thais about the current situation? Do you presume to speak for them, that ny unhappiness is down to the current government? Are you even in this country?

[MZurf]

I was asking you a question, and since you appear to have a particularly slow day I will repeat it:

So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?

You will forgive me, on my slow days I sometimes forget the imperative of answering all you questions. Contradictory statements add to the difficulty of comprehension.

"I don't presume to know how this ranks for the unwashed masses. Unlike you I haven't done extensive field research trips."

Given your prior statement, I had no idea you were talking about yourself. So the answer is yes. But what has that to do with you and your presumption or lack of it? Which is it?

"So when others gain information the same way as you do it's unreasonable?"

That was the question, and your answer:

"So the answer is yes."

And you still expect people to take you seriously?

As the answer wasn't meant to be taken seriously, no I don't. But don't feel any urgency or even imperative to answer my questions regarding your conflicting statements.

Do you actually speak to NE and northern Thais about the current situation? Do you presume to speak for them, that ny unhappiness is down to the current government? Are you even in this country?

"But don't feel any urgency or even imperative to answer my questions regarding your conflicting statements."

It would help if you highlighted what you find confusing. Anything I can do to help you in that regard I'm more than willing to do.

"Do you actually speak to NE and northern Thais about the current situation?"

I rarely venture North or North East. There are, however, tons of them where I live in Pattaya, and I do speak to them on an almost daily basis. Infrequently about politics, but on occasions I do get some interesting tidbits. Those who are not afraid to discuss politics are by and large against the junta.

My wife is Thai and from Eastern Thailand. Where she comes from (not in any way a red stronghold) there is growing resentment towards the junta. Is that clear enough?

"Do you presume to speak for them, that ny unhappiness is down to the current government?"

Not at all. Where have I claimed that??

"Are you even in this country?"

I am indeed. PM me your phone number and I'll call you from my Thai phone.

[rubl]

"Well, it's save to assume you came with reasoning to blame the junta again. IMHO."

You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter, nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc., etc. Just someone with a different opinion.

Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on. Blaming the junta is easy, but possibly a drying up of the 870 billion Baht Pheu Thai paid directly to rice farmers is more of a reason.

[MZurf]

"Well, it's save to assume you came with reasoning to blame the junta again. IMHO."

You mean while discussing an article about the unhappiness of the people of the NE after the junta overthrew the elected government it's unreasonable to blame the junta???

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter, nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc., etc. Just someone with a different opinion.

Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on. Blaming the junta is easy, but possibly a drying up of the 870 billion Baht Pheu Thai paid directly to rice farmers is more of a reason.

"Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter..."

Well, you could have fooled me (and, I guess, a number of other posters). I don't think I've ever read serious criticism of the junta by you.

"...nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself..."

Never claimed you were or should. Touchy, are we?

" Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on."

Totally agree. That's why I'm advocating holding an election so that we can find out once and for all. I mean, according to the government polls any elections should be a formality for the ruling junta, right?

[johnatong]

Doubt these people will be "happy" until the per diem payments for rioting, shooting, bombing and arson are resumed.

Life must be so boring !

[baboon]

Doubt these people will be "happy" until the per diem payments for rioting, shooting, bombing and arson are resumed.

Life must be so boring !

Who do you mean by "These people"?

[Winniedapu]

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter, nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc., etc. Just someone with a different opinion.

Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on. Blaming the junta is easy, but possibly a drying up of the 870 billion Baht Pheu Thai paid directly to rice farmers is more of a reason.

Totally agree. That's why I'm advocating holding an election so that we can find out once and for all. I mean, according to the government polls any elections should be a formality for the ruling junta, right?

The nature of change is that it happens gradually. I recall hating Thaksin when I first came to TL, but someone from the NE pointed out new perspectives. I still think he's a sh|t, but put into perspective of all Thais, he is far from standing out from the crowd.

My shift in perspective happened slowly, as is Rubi's, that's abundantly clear.

Perhaps something is gradually causing the wheel to turn?

W

Edited May 28, 2016 by Winniedapu

[rubl]

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter, nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc., etc. Just someone with a different opinion.

Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on. Blaming the junta is easy, but possibly a drying up of the 870 billion Baht Pheu Thai paid directly to rice farmers is more of a reason.

"Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter..."

Well, you could have fooled me (and, I guess, a number of other posters). I don't think I've ever read serious criticism of the junta by you.

"...nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself..."

Never claimed you were or should. Touchy, are we?

" Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on."

Totally agree. That's why I'm advocating holding an election so that we can find out once and for all. I mean, according to the government polls any elections should be a formality for the ruling junta, right?

The 'fascist' comes from some of the other 'nice' posters.

If you label anyone who doesn't critisise the junta as you do as 'junta supporters" 98% of the Thai population may carry the same label. Furthermore apart from some MEPs in Brussels the European population doesn't seem to discuss and critisise the junta. All junta supporters, or just afraid they can't go to Thailand on holiday if they critisise?

As for "let's have an election", reasoned from a Western background as usual.

[baboon]

^^

How do you know what the European population discusses?

If you label those who would like to criticise the junta the way others do, 98% of the Thai population may be seen to be passionately against the current.

Edited May 28, 2016 by baboon

[johnatong]

^^

How do you know what the European population discusses?

Europeans are more likely to be discussing the effects of mass, uncontrolled migration by 'refugees' than they are the situation in some SE Asian country !