Lawyers appeal against death sentences over murder of British tourists in Thailand

[Khun Han]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

Well Theo this is the person who is now trying to claim the french diver who died in Surat thani is in someway involved.

He believes that instead of the mafia killing him on the island they let him have a holiday in Indonesia first then waited for him to get off the ferry a few minutes before it departed for KT to by some smokes.

With all the deaths on Koh Tao, it makes perfect sense to sort further problems out off Koh Tao, but still in 'friendly' territory.

By the way, that matter you brought up about the nutty American woman. You didn't answer my question about Christy Sweet. Surely you know the answer?

[NCFC]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

You mean that by remaining silent Chris Ware is prepared to see two innocent people executed. Really, is that what youu are saying? Because that is what his silence will bring if your interpretation is correct.

[Moonsterk]

Jaysus, just had a look at Andrew Drummond's FB page, the freaks are out today. Why on earth would a journalist allow such drivel to be posted such as

" Hannah was on her period..... David was alive and Mon drowned him.."

[Aj Mick]

As I have said before Laura has a right to say what she has if she says she or her parents witnessed any of these remarks the judges made I will believe her.

Just as I trust what the Millers said because they sat through the trial.

I don't doubt for one second she has had threatening phone and I don't doubt she has been followed in her car the question is by who ?

But I know the women that refer to 2 possible killers as Cute, adorable etc will do anything to have these 2 men found innocent even if it means damaging a family that has already been through an awful experience.

The Millers' speak Thai do they? And how come they had a written statement ready before the verdict was announced?

No have you never heard of translators ? do the Witheridge's speak Thai ?

Maybe if you paid a bit more attention to the case you would know the verdict was delivered long after the trial ended they could of had two statements one if found guilty and one if not found guilty.

As some people think that thai courts should have a jury lets look at it this way.

3 votes from the Miller family guilty

1 vote from Laura (will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as she has not come straight out and said she believes they are innocent.

2 votes Witheridge parents abstained as they have not said either way.

So I make that 3-1 and thats not including Davids friend who also think the verdict is just.

Strange logic; there has been no poll of the the Miller and Witheridge families as far as I am aware.

Yes, Luke Miller did express his family's satisfaction with the investigation, trial and the outcome.

The Witheridge family have been more circumspect. Laura slamming the proceedings is probably is a reflection of their doubt. They have not found closure in the outcome.

There has been a survey conducted here on Thai Visa in which 571 respondents (92.1%) reckoned that the Burmese lads were not guilty……. And 49 (7.9%) voted that they felt that B2 are guilty.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881609-survey-do-you-believe-the-2-burmese-found-guilty-of-the-koh-tao-murders-are-guilty/

One has to suspect that some of the latter active here are somewhat disingenuous, if not being downright deceitful. They know the truth, but it behoves them to toe and promulgate the party line for reasons best known to themselves…… Probably vested interests for some, and the desire for a bit of notoriety for others.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Aj Mick

[Moonsterk]

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?

We've had the straw man arguments, this is the grasping at straw argument. Wisps, really. Dust.

You are right

You just throw out whatever and maybe someone will be convinced- it that your strategy?

You asked a question that made no sense, I asked for clarification you haven't answered..

Here it is again; Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?

[Moonsterk]

As I have said before Laura has a right to say what she has if she says she or her parents witnessed any of these remarks the judges made I will believe her.

Just as I trust what the Millers said because they sat through the trial.

I don't doubt for one second she has had threatening phone and I don't doubt she has been followed in her car the question is by who ?

But I know the women that refer to 2 possible killers as Cute, adorable etc will do anything to have these 2 men found innocent even if it means damaging a family that has already been through an awful experience.

The Millers' speak Thai do they? And how come they had a written statement ready before the verdict was announced?

No have you never heard of translators ? do the Witheridge's speak Thai ?

Maybe if you paid a bit more attention to the case you would know the verdict was delivered long after the trial ended they could of had two statements one if found guilty and one if not found guilty.

As some people think that thai courts should have a jury lets look at it this way.

3 votes from the Miller family guilty

1 vote from Laura (will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as she has not come straight out and said she believes they are innocent.

2 votes Witheridge parents abstained as they have not said either way.

So I make that 3-1 and thats not including Davids friend who also think the verdict is just.

Strange logic; there has been no poll of the the Miller and Witheridge families as far as I am aware.

Yes, Luke Miller did express his family's satisfaction with the investigation, trial and the outcome.

The Witheridge family have been more circumspect. Laura slamming the proceedings is probably is a reflection of their doubt. They have not found closure in the outcome.

There has been a survey conducted here on Thai Visa in which 571 respondents (92.1%) reckoned that the Burmese lads were not guilty……. And 49 (7.9%) voted that they felt that B2 are guilty.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881609-survey-do-you-believe-the-2-burmese-found-guilty-of-the-koh-tao-murders-are-guilty/

One has to suspect that some of the latter are somewhat disingenuous, if not being downright deceitful. They know the truth, but it behoves them to toe and promulgate the party line for reasons best known to themselves…… Probably vested interests.

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

[rockingrobin]

Moonsterk

' You just throw out whatever and maybe someone will be convinced- it that your strategy?

You asked a question that made no sense, I asked for clarification you haven't answered..

Here it is again; Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?'

In an earlier post you called it a strawman argument. If that is what you believe fair enough I am more than happy for you to continue thinking that.

In reference to the dna the information is out in the public domain.

[Moonsterk]

Well Theo this is the person who is now trying to claim the french diver who died in Surat thani is in someway involved.

He believes that instead of the mafia killing him on the island they let him have a holiday in Indonesia first then waited for him to get off the ferry a few minutes before it departed for KT to by some smokes.

You mean the one who was about 40 lbs overweight, a smoker, a hard liquor imbiber, had an infection in his leg, was on medication either for it or a chronic circulatory disease that effected his right arm, and went diving to 60 meter depth before his gf reported he was not well and disoriented after he went wandering off and was found dead two weeks later? That Frenchman was murdered?

With all the deaths on Koh Tao, it makes perfect sense to sort further problems out off Koh Tao, but still in 'friendly' territory.

By the way, that matter you brought up about the nutty American woman. You didn't answer my question about Christy Sweet. Surely you know the answer?

You really think this man, who was about 40 lbs overweight, a smoker, a hard liquor imbiber, had an infection in his leg, was on medication either for it or a chronic circulatory disease that effected his right arm, and went diving to 60 meter depth before his gf reported he was not well and disoriented after he went wandering off and was found dead two weeks later was murdered by Koh Tao Mafia?

Are you posting on FB pages that Jean-Francois Louet found David and pulled him out of the water because that's the lie baking on AD right now..

[Aj Mick]

No have you never heard of translators ? do the Witheridge's speak Thai ?

Maybe if you paid a bit more attention to the case you would know the verdict was delivered long after the trial ended they could of had two statements one if found guilty and one if not found guilty.

As some people think that thai courts should have a jury lets look at it this way.

3 votes from the Miller family guilty

1 vote from Laura (will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as she has not come straight out and said she believes they are innocent.

2 votes Witheridge parents abstained as they have not said either way.

So I make that 3-1 and thats not including Davids friend who also think the verdict is just.

Strange logic; there has been no poll of the the Miller and Witheridge families as far as I am aware.

Yes, Luke Miller did express his family's satisfaction with the investigation, trial and the outcome.

The Witheridge family have been more circumspect. Laura slamming the proceedings is probably is a reflection of their doubt. They have not found closure in the outcome.

There has been a survey conducted here on Thai Visa in which 571 respondents (92.1%) reckoned that the Burmese lads were not guilty……. And 49 (7.9%) voted that they felt that B2 are guilty.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881609-survey-do-you-believe-the-2-burmese-found-guilty-of-the-koh-tao-murders-are-guilty/

One has to suspect that some of the latter are somewhat disingenuous, if not being downright deceitful. They know the truth, but it behoves them to toe and promulgate the party line for reasons best known to themselves…… Probably vested interests.

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

Did I suggest you have a vested interest? Nope…… more an inclination to dead horse flogging.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest the the Burmese lads conviction was unsafe. There plenty of leads that could be followed to nail well connected others. One suspects some who post here are among their acquaintances..

Edited May 26, 2016 by Aj Mick

[jimmybkk]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

You mean that by remaining silent Chris Ware is prepared to see two innocent people executed. Really, is that what youu are saying? Because that is what his silence will bring if your interpretation is correct.

What I mean is that by remaining silent Chris Ware is clearly refraining from throwing any support behind the convictions of the B2, as are the rest of David & Hannah's friends, and under the circumstances I am not so sure that any more can be expected of them.

Please tell me what you think would be the outcome of Chris speaking out in the event that he had strong beliefs about who the real murderers were...?

[JLCrab]

<snip>

With all the deaths on Koh Tao, it makes perfect sense to sort further problems out off Koh Tao, but still in 'friendly' territory.

<snip2>

So if a Koh Tao resident is murdered in Surat Thani as he is about to board a ferry to return to Koh Tao, no one would ever suspect that such murder has anything to do with anything that may have transpired on Koh Tao but is solely related to circumstances that occurred in Surat Thani while the victim was awaiting his return on the ferry to Koh Tao. OK.

Edited May 26, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk

' You just throw out whatever and maybe someone will be convinced- it that your strategy?

You asked a question that made no sense, I asked for clarification you haven't answered..

Here it is again; Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?'

In an earlier post you called it a strawman argument. If that is what you believe fair enough I am more than happy for you to continue thinking that.

In reference to the dna the information is out in the public domain.

So you cannot clarify your question.

Isn't it fair to say you likely have no idea yourself what your question meant.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

Answering my question to clarify with a " is out in public domain " is no answer,

To clarify my statement- I was saying you use straw man arguments, so can you clarify your original question that made no sense to me, here is is

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

( and which you deleted from the quotes )

....and it was in response to this statement by me ;

"Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle."

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

So again; please here is my request for you to clarify your question- if you can...

Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?

[DM07]

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

Let's see!

Part of a cult or a religion would be defined by taking things on faith, without any evidence!

Who does that remind me off?

[Moonsterk]

With all the deaths on Koh Tao, it makes perfect sense to sort further problems out off Koh Tao, but still in 'friendly' territory.

<snip2>

So if a Koh Tao resident is murdered in Surat Thani as he is about to board a ferry to return to Koh Tao, no one would ever suspect that such murder has anything to do with anything that may have transpired on Koh Tao but is solely related to circumstances that occurred in Surat Thani while the victim was awaiting his return on the ferry to Koh Tao. OK.

You mean the one who was about 40 lbs overweight, a smoker, a hard liquor imbiber, had an infection in his leg, was on medication either for it or a chronic circulatory disease that effected his right arm, and went diving to 60 meter depth before his gf reported he was not well and disoriented after he went wandering off and was found dead two weeks later? He was murdered?

[Moonsterk]

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

Let's see!

Part of a cult or a religion would be defined by taking things on faith, without any evidence!

Who does that remind me off?

Yourself. ( Talk about a comedic set-up!!)

[DM07]

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

Let's see!

Part of a cult or a religion would be defined by taking things on faith, without any evidence!

Who does that remind me off?

Yourself. ( Talk about a comedic set-up!!)

Aha!

Laughing myself silly here!

[Moonsterk]

Yes same with the defense

The labs were not ISO accredited (now not appealing this) turns out they are

They were on the beach till 1 then went back to sleep, no actually they went back down to the beach at 4am

The hoe was never tested for dna, they did actually test it

They only had 1 beer each no they also had a bottle of wine that was found at the crime scene

WP said he found the phone in a bar, then admitted he found it on the beach

WP & ZL did not see anyone on the beach MM yes there was a western couple.

DNA was impossible to test in 24hrs, lab has kits that can do tests in under 24 hours

Dna tested in under 24 hrs was mixed sample no it was Dna taken after there arrest.

Great summation of the flip -flopping whoppers used as "evidence" to exonerate the convicted.

[JLCrab]

<snip>

Aha!

Laughing myself silly here!

Good -- according to the assessment by lead defense attorney Nakhon as linked in Post #1, you may have a minimum of 7 months to do so.

[Moonsterk]

Sure, my "vested interests" are in justice and truth. Sorry, I'm not impressed with the vast majority of the defenders ability to think for themselves. In fact I'd say they are completely inculcated in a cult that has a fantasy as basis.

Sort of a religion, even. Lots believe in those, doesn't make it true.

Let's see!

Part of a cult or a religion would be defined by taking things on faith, without any evidence!

Who does that remind me off?

Yourself. ( Talk about a comedic set-up!!)

Aha!

Laughing myself silly here!

“Fools make feasts and wise men eat them.” Ben Franklin

[DiscoDan]

Care to read this?

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

This is -in fact- an official statement by the Witheridge- family.

Not a facebook post!

And it is way less "triumphant" than the Miller's statement!

Yes I have read it, I doubt they would say their trip to Thailand was enjoyable do you ?

Still no mention there of the court convicting the wrong people though is there ?

[Moonsterk]

Aha!

Laughing myself silly here!

Good -- according to the assessment by lead defense attorney Nakhon as linked in Post #1, you may have a minimum of 7 months to do so.

Then what, 3- 4 years to get another 200 pages typed up for a SCoT appeal? And after that, 10- 20 years of death sentence appeals..The lads would be doing less time had they simply admitted their crime.

Makes me wonder...

Who really gains from giving them poor legal advice. Who gets oodles of publicity and gets to finger funding.

Mmmmm

Edited May 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[willieaames]

The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law.

[Moonsterk]

Care to read this?

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

This is -in fact- an official statement by the Witheridge- family.

Not a facebook post!

And it is way less "triumphant" than the Miller's statement!

Yes I have read it, I doubt they would say their trip to Thailand was enjoyable do you ?

Still no mention there of the court convicting the wrong people though is there ?

Thw Witheridges deserve all manner of sympathy from their horrid experiences with that photo stunt but they were not as involved in the trial, and Laura has been in contact with the kool aid dispenser.

[JLCrab]

The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law.

After the Samui Court judgment 24 December 2015, it was said said that nobody goes swimming at 3 AM when they are so drunk that they can hardly walk. Then persons on ThaiVisa chimed in with personal anecdotes of having done just that.

Then in the recent TV4 documentary the family of Nick Pearson claimed that he had to be the victim of foul play because nobody goes swimming at around 3 AM when they are so drunk that they hardly walk. You can fly from Bangkok to Hong Kong going east one time zone or you can fly from Bangkok to Hong Kong going west 23 time zones but you end up in the same place.

Edited May 26, 2016 by JLCrab

[DM07]

Care to read this?

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

This is -in fact- an official statement by the Witheridge- family.

Not a facebook post!

And it is way less "triumphant" than the Miller's statement!

Yes I have read it, I doubt they would say their trip to Thailand was enjoyable do you ?

Still no mention there of the court convicting the wrong people though is there ?

Okay, look Disco...

I said, I'd rather stick to the not overly jubilant statement of the Witheridges!

You said, there was no statement, just a facebook- post!

I showed you the (not so jubilant) statement!

Got it?

Where did I say. the Witheridges stated, that the wrong people were convicted?

You posted (as so often) questionable BS and you got corrected!

Again!

Live with it!

[stander]

Jaysus, just had a look at Andrew Drummond's FB page, the freaks are out today. Why on earth would a journalist allow such drivel to be posted such as

" Hannah was on her period..... David was alive and Mon drowned him.."

Drummond lost credibility as a journalist a long time, which is a shame as at one time he was a top bloke

[DM07]

Care to read this?

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

This is -in fact- an official statement by the Witheridge- family.

Not a facebook post!

And it is way less "triumphant" than the Miller's statement!

Yes I have read it, I doubt they would say their trip to Thailand was enjoyable do you ?

Still no mention there of the court convicting the wrong people though is there ?

Thw Witheridges deserve all manner of sympathy from their horrid experiences with that photo stunt but they were not as involved in the trial, and Laura has been in contact with the kool aid dispenser.

Stay classy!

Mocking the sister of a rape and murder- victim, because she doesn't agree with your @#$%&^ up version of reality!

[DM07]

“Fools make feasts and wise men eat them.” Ben Franklin

Franklin! Impressive!

Judging on the claptrap you post here, I would have expected an Elmer Fudge- quote!

[rockingrobin]

The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law.

After the Samui Court judgment 24 December 2015, it was said said that nobody goes swimming at 3 AM when they are so drunk that they can hardly walk. Then persons on ThaiVisa chimed in with personal anecdotes of having done just that.

Then in the recent TV4 documentary the family of Nick Pearson claimed that he had to be the victim of foul play because nobody goes swimming at around 3 AM when they are so drunk that they hardly walk. You can fly from Bangkok to Hong Kong going east one time zone or you can fly from Bangkok to Hong Kong going west 23 time zones but you end up in the same place.

JLCrab

Nick Pearson was not so drunk he hardly could walk, the TV documentary makes it clear the reason why he had to be helped into bed.

[rockingrobin]

The dna being forwarded to Songkla 20 days after the B2 arrest for race determination, to me raises 2 issues

What precipitated the RTP to forward the dna, they already have identified the B2 , what could they possibly ascertain from the test.

How did they determine the earlier result where it was announced the sperm was asian