If you see an accident what do you do?

[johnatong]

Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner.

I used to live next door to an american paramedic who went to see the ambulance guys on the soi to have a chat and check out their work situation. Apparently they dont even know first aid.

Did this American speak fluent Thai ?

[kannot]

http://www.survivetheride.org/riders/first-aid/

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

[kannot]

Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner.

Source?

As I thought the poster got his assertion from ""Thailand Myths and Urban Legend Book" by Dick H. Farang "

Below is the answer from a lawyer...

Capture.PNG

https://www.firstaidtrainingbangkok.com/about/good-samaritan-laws.html

Not sure if Somsak lawyer is also a member of the Thailand Myths book.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794455-liability-of-helping-someone-that-is-injured/?hl=accident

Having said that, it's not unknown for an innocent member of the public to be subsequently 'involved' with the accident.

ive met Somsak the lawyer, all i can say is he has a snazzy suit

[Kaalle]

Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner.

I used to live next door to an american paramedic who went to see the ambulance guys on the soi to have a chat and check out their work situation. Apparently they dont even know first aid.

Did this American speak fluent Thai ?

Nope, but do you honestly believe emergency personnel have adequate training here? Maybe the ones in the expensive hospitals but I wouldn't take it for granted.

[stevenl]

http://www.survivetheride.org/riders/first-aid/

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

And you're incorrect and giving bad advice.

[chiang mai]

For the avoidance of doubt: a supposed legal quote from a web site that sells First Responder Courses in Thailand has been posted, that however is not necessarily the full extent of the law on this subject, almost certainly it is not, neither is what was posted entirely accurate either. It's also worth reminding here that whilst my earlier quote was never intended to directly reflect Thai law on this subject, the associated legal pitfalls of helping are outlined in post 28 above.

You're as slippery as a wet bar of soap.

First you give us chapter and verse from the bar stool book of Thai law, then when confronted with the actual law you resort to claims it's not the whole collection of Thai law and/or the law might say one thing buy the sneaky people involved might rig the application of the law.

It would be far simpler, and you might at least retain some credibility, if you admitted your extract from the bar stool book of law was the hogwash it clearly is.

If, for whatever reason, you personally would not stop to assist someone injured in an accident at least have the honesty to admit it, rather than dreaming up reasons why you or anyone else should not give assistance.

It was ME who posted that link in the first place in post 10, at YOUR REQUEST (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/919765-if-you-see-an-accident-what-do-you-do/#entry10781638) and I did caution when I posted that it probably wasn't the most reliable, ( "(not necessarily 100% reliable source") what more do you want, somebody to hold your hand whilst you read it and explain the big words to you!

And I also explained that what I wrote in that initial post was my interpretation of the law on this subject and did not reflect what I personally would or would not do, ("This is not a question of what I personally may or may not do in such a scenario, it's simply a statement about the legal implications, big difference - Post 27).

It would be far simpler, if YOU wanted to retain some credibility, to just read what has been written more precisely.

Edited May 25, 2016 by chiang mai

[chrisinth]

Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner.

I used to live next door to an american paramedic who went to see the ambulance guys on the soi to have a chat and check out their work situation. Apparently they dont even know first aid.

Apparently is a big word.

[chrisinth]

http://www.survivetheride.org/riders/first-aid/

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

Or the car or bike on fire or in an imminant threat of igniting.

Agree whole heartedly kannot, too many variables against the arguement of not moving the casualty.

I also understand the risks of moving them, decisions would need to be made.

[chiang mai]

For the avoidance of doubt: a supposed legal quote from a web site that sells First Responder Courses in Thailand has been posted, that however is not necessarily the full extent of the law on this subject, almost certainly it is not, neither is what was posted entirely accurate either. It's also worth reminding here that whilst my earlier quote was never intended to directly reflect Thai law on this subject, the associated legal pitfalls of helping are outlined in post 28 above.

Show me the paragraph from the law which states "a first responder certificate is required" and if a person dies under the care of someone who doesn't have a first responders certificate, the person providing the first aid or assistance will be held liable...you exact quote is below for reference

if you cant please and stop flim flamming...you made a statement of fact and you cant prove said statement of fact...

your not a lawyer so you cannot comment on any possible legal pitfalls as your not qualified to do so.

Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner.

Troll, Mods!

In what way is that a troll post??

You started by saying that "Unless you hold a First Responder certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and that person dies, you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or foreigner".

When asked for proof of that you provide reference to something that says almost the exact opposite.

The 'proof' you provided suggests that if you hold a a First Responder Certificate (or are other wise qualified) to help with medical assistance and you do NOT assist then you would be liable to prosecution. It also states that regardless of whether or not you hold a certificate you would not normally be held responsible for any outcome.

You are contradicting yourself with your own 'proof', and when asked to actually provide proof that does substantiate your original claim your response is to go crybaby and call Troll.....

The poster was trolling. He repeatedly asked for the same impossible to have data, an all encompassing quote from Thai law and that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

The poster also chose to interpret my opinion as being an extract from Thai law which it clearly wasn't and it was apparent to most people that it was not, otherwise a link would have been supplied to confirm the source, as per TVF rules.

The same poster also chose to believe that a web site that sells first responder courses was the definitive legal authority on this topic which clearly it is not, more likely it is biased would be my guess.

Also ignored were the use of words such as normal, normally and maybe when stating there is no liability - overlooked also is the fact that Thailand is notorious for applying laws differently in different location and differently based on whether a Thai or a foreigner is involved.

If indeed the poster was not trolling then he has never been to Thailand and does not understand the way things here work, if that is not the case them he is incredibly naive and gullible.

[stevenl]

For the avoidance of doubt: a supposed legal quote from a web site that sells First Responder Courses in Thailand has been posted, that however is not necessarily the full extent of the law on this subject, almost certainly it is not, neither is what was posted entirely accurate either. It's also worth reminding here that whilst my earlier quote was never intended to directly reflect Thai law on this subject, the associated legal pitfalls of helping are outlined in post 28 above.

You're as slippery as a wet bar of soap.

First you give us chapter and verse from the bar stool book of Thai law, then when confronted with the actual law you resort to claims it's not the whole collection of Thai law and/or the law might say one thing buy the sneaky people involved might rig the application of the law.

It would be far simpler, and you might at least retain some credibility, if you admitted your extract from the bar stool book of law was the hogwash it clearly is.

If, for whatever reason, you personally would not stop to assist someone injured in an accident at least have the honesty to admit it, rather than dreaming up reasons why you or anyone else should not give assistance.

It was ME who posted that link in the first place in post 10, at YOUR REQUEST (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/919765-if-you-see-an-accident-what-do-you-do/#entry10781638) and I did caution when I posted that it probably wasn't the most reliable, ( "(not necessarily 100% reliable source") what more do you want, somebody to hold your hand whilst you read it and explain the big words to you!

And I also explained that what I wrote in that initial post was my interpretation of the law on this subject and did not reflect what I personally would or would not do, ("This is not a question of what I personally may or may not do in such a scenario, it's simply a statement about the legal implications, big difference - Post 27).

It would be far simpler, if YOU wanted to retain some credibility, to just read what has been written more precisely.

Why don't you just admit your claim and the link you listed to support your claim are saying something different?

[chiang mai]

For the avoidance of doubt: a supposed legal quote from a web site that sells First Responder Courses in Thailand has been posted, that however is not necessarily the full extent of the law on this subject, almost certainly it is not, neither is what was posted entirely accurate either. It's also worth reminding here that whilst my earlier quote was never intended to directly reflect Thai law on this subject, the associated legal pitfalls of helping are outlined in post 28 above.

You're as slippery as a wet bar of soap.

First you give us chapter and verse from the bar stool book of Thai law, then when confronted with the actual law you resort to claims it's not the whole collection of Thai law and/or the law might say one thing buy the sneaky people involved might rig the application of the law.

It would be far simpler, and you might at least retain some credibility, if you admitted your extract from the bar stool book of law was the hogwash it clearly is.

If, for whatever reason, you personally would not stop to assist someone injured in an accident at least have the honesty to admit it, rather than dreaming up reasons why you or anyone else should not give assistance.

It was ME who posted that link in the first place in post 10, at YOUR REQUEST (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/919765-if-you-see-an-accident-what-do-you-do/#entry10781638) and I did caution when I posted that it probably wasn't the most reliable, ( "(not necessarily 100% reliable source") what more do you want, somebody to hold your hand whilst you read it and explain the big words to you!

And I also explained that what I wrote in that initial post was my interpretation of the law on this subject and did not reflect what I personally would or would not do, ("This is not a question of what I personally may or may not do in such a scenario, it's simply a statement about the legal implications, big difference - Post 27).

It would be far simpler, if YOU wanted to retain some credibility, to just read what has been written more precisely.

Why don't you just admit your claim and the link you listed to support your claim are saying something different?

Of course they are different but as pointed out, one is self serving in that it is a quote from a first responder course supplier, it does however shed some light on the subject albeit it is not a reliable source in any way, in that respect it is a potentially useful link to post. It also, by virtue of the "lawyers" use of the words "normally" and "not normally" imply that people who try to help in an accident, CAN be prosecuted, not will be but can be, in that respect the link is supportive of my view that such people "can be liable".

[stevenl]

http://www.survivetheride.org/riders/first-aid/

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

Or the car or bike on fire or in an imminant threat of igniting.

Agree whole heartedly kannot, too many variables against the arguement of not moving the casualty.

I also understand the risks of moving them, decisions would need to be made.

Out of context. Kannot claimed it would be good to put accident victims in the recovery position, which it is not. So if in case of a fire threat you want to put the victim in recovery position, your comment is not applicable.

[Blackheart]

Seen two Aussies help during an accident, girl come off her bike and was messed up.

Everyone very much appreciated the help and all onlookers and police, everybody thanked them.

Thais are not evil, they usually rush in to help from my experience when someone is hurt.

I once stopped a woman dragging another onto a highway, she was beating her badly, I stopped her, she was in a rage, police pulled over and said thankyou and told me to go.

[Koosdedooes]

The poster was trolling. He repeatedly asked for the same impossible to have data, an all encompassing quote from Thai law and that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

The poster also chose to interpret my opinion as being an extract from Thai law which it clearly wasn't and it was apparent to most people that it was not, otherwise a link would have been supplied to confirm the source, as per TVF rules.

The same poster also chose to believe that a web site that sells first responder courses was the definitive legal authority on this topic which clearly it is not, more likely it is biased would be my guess.

Also ignored were the use of words such as normal, normally and maybe when stating there is no liability - overlooked also is the fact that Thailand is notorious for applying laws differently in different location and differently based on whether a Thai or a foreigner is involved.

If indeed the poster was not trolling then he has never been to Thailand and does not understand the way things here work, if that is not the case them he is incredibly naive and gullible.

....flim flamery again

that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

But yet you present a statement of fact from "Thai law" which states "unless you hold a first responders certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and the person dies you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or Foreigner"

And your not even a skilled lawyer

As regards you last nugget of wisdom and your rather childish remarks, some facts which will illustrate for far detached you are from reality:

15 years working for an MNC in Thailand in a managerial position, hold advanced first aid certification, Emergency response management trained including legal aspects pertinent to Thai legislation, and serve as the sites on scene incident commander, responsible for amongst other things co-coordinating both internally and externally with Thai agencies and government structures if so required in times of emergency.

I will confess I am not familiar with all Thai HSE legislation in the Thai language, but I am pretty familiar with English language versions especially mandatory training requirements for personnel serving in various roles etc and I am certain "First Responder certificates" are not mentioned anywhere, let alone any references to liability's or consequences for individuals...

But once again nice to see your making up categorical statements of fact about things you don't have clue and making up conspiracy theories about people, may I humbly request you get back on your bar stool in that rather nice city of Chang Mai and read the next engrossing chapter of " Myths and Urban Legends " by Dick H. Farang

[chiang mai]

The poster was trolling. He repeatedly asked for the same impossible to have data, an all encompassing quote from Thai law and that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

The poster also chose to interpret my opinion as being an extract from Thai law which it clearly wasn't and it was apparent to most people that it was not, otherwise a link would have been supplied to confirm the source, as per TVF rules.

The same poster also chose to believe that a web site that sells first responder courses was the definitive legal authority on this topic which clearly it is not, more likely it is biased would be my guess.

Also ignored were the use of words such as normal, normally and maybe when stating there is no liability - overlooked also is the fact that Thailand is notorious for applying laws differently in different location and differently based on whether a Thai or a foreigner is involved.

If indeed the poster was not trolling then he has never been to Thailand and does not understand the way things here work, if that is not the case them he is incredibly naive and gullible.

....flim flamery again

that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

But yet you present a statement of fact from "Thai law" which states "unless you hold a first responders certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and the person dies you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or Foreigner"

And your not even a skilled lawyer

As regards you last nugget of wisdom and your rather childish remarks, some facts which will illustrate for far detached you are from reality:

15 years working for an MNC in Thailand in a managerial position, hold advanced first aid certification, Emergency response management trained including legal aspects pertinent to Thai legislation, and serve as the sites on scene incident commander, responsible for amongst other things co-coordinating both internally and externally with Thai agencies and government structures if so required in times of emergency.

I will confess I am not familiar with all Thai HSE legislation in the Thai language, but I am pretty familiar with English language versions especially mandatory training requirements for personnel serving in various roles etc and I am certain "First Responder certificates" are not mentioned anywhere, let alone any references to liability's or consequences for individuals...

But once again nice to see your making up categorical statements of fact about things you don't have clue and making up conspiracy theories about people, may I humbly request you get back on your bar stool in that rather nice city of Chang Mai and read the next engrossing chapter of " Myths and Urban Legends " by Dick H. Farang

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you keep repeating sentences such as, "you present a statement of fact from "Thai law" which states, "unless you hold a first responders....", when only you think it's from Thai law and you've been told repeatedly that it isn't! That fact notwithstanding my statement stands as 100% true, you CAN be held liable.

If your MNC offers reading and comprehension lessons in English, enrol at first opportunity.

[kannot]

http://www.survivetheride.org/riders/first-aid/

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

And you're incorrect and giving bad advice.

so you would only move them if choking on vomit?

[Koosdedooes]

The poster was trolling. He repeatedly asked for the same impossible to have data, an all encompassing quote from Thai law and that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

The poster also chose to interpret my opinion as being an extract from Thai law which it clearly wasn't and it was apparent to most people that it was not, otherwise a link would have been supplied to confirm the source, as per TVF rules.

The same poster also chose to believe that a web site that sells first responder courses was the definitive legal authority on this topic which clearly it is not, more likely it is biased would be my guess.

Also ignored were the use of words such as normal, normally and maybe when stating there is no liability - overlooked also is the fact that Thailand is notorious for applying laws differently in different location and differently based on whether a Thai or a foreigner is involved.

If indeed the poster was not trolling then he has never been to Thailand and does not understand the way things here work, if that is not the case them he is incredibly naive and gullible.

....flim flamery again

that is virtually impossible to obtain, even knowledgable and skilled lawyers would likely have difficulty obtaining all the related laws on this subject and presenting it succinctly.

But yet you present a statement of fact from "Thai law" which states "unless you hold a first responders certificate and you intervene in a medical emergency and the person dies you can be held liable, regardless of whether Thai or Foreigner"

And your not even a skilled lawyer

As regards you last nugget of wisdom and your rather childish remarks, some facts which will illustrate for far detached you are from reality:

15 years working for an MNC in Thailand in a managerial position, hold advanced first aid certification, Emergency response management trained including legal aspects pertinent to Thai legislation, and serve as the sites on scene incident commander, responsible for amongst other things co-coordinating both internally and externally with Thai agencies and government structures if so required in times of emergency.

I will confess I am not familiar with all Thai HSE legislation in the Thai language, but I am pretty familiar with English language versions especially mandatory training requirements for personnel serving in various roles etc and I am certain "First Responder certificates" are not mentioned anywhere, let alone any references to liability's or consequences for individuals...

But once again nice to see your making up categorical statements of fact about things you don't have clue and making up conspiracy theories about people, may I humbly request you get back on your bar stool in that rather nice city of Chang Mai and read the next engrossing chapter of " Myths and Urban Legends " by Dick H. Farang

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you keep repeating sentences such as, "you present a statement of fact from "Thai law" which states, "unless you hold a first responders....", when only you think it's from Thai law and you've been told repeatedly that it isn't! That fact notwithstanding my statement stands as 100% true, you CAN be held liable.

If your MNC offers reading and comprehension lessons in English, enrol at first opportunity.

oh dear no constructive response or debate so hurl insults ...back to the bar stool for your...if you knew any thing about the English language, you would have noted I put "Thai law" in inverted commas and understand what that actually means

[stevenl]

Unless there is a risk of the victim suffocating in his own vomit, leave him as he is.

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

And you're incorrect and giving bad advice.

so you would only move them if choking on vomit?

Leave them as it is, unless life threatening. And as we were talking about changing to recovery position, there are not many cases where moving an accident victim on the same spot but to a recovery position makes sense.

[kannot]

so you would only move them if choking on vomit?

or choking on blood, or not breathing well,i did say many variables

And you're incorrect and giving bad advice.

Leave them as it is, unless life threatening. And as we were talking about changing to recovery position, there are not many cases where moving an accident victim on the same spot but to a recovery position makes sense.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said, if they are ok no need to do anything I dont mean every accident victim needs to go into the recovery position

I said "if not conscious youll need the recovery position depending on the injury of course". IE as u mention life threatening not breathing etc maybe badly worded by me.

[chiang mai]

You all may wish to read the following:

"Thailand does not have a Good Samaritan law on the books".

From here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/241146-illegal-to-use-heart-defibrillator-in-thailand/

Edited May 25, 2016 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

oh dear no constructive response or debate so hurl insults ...back to the bar stool for your...if you knew any thing about the English language, you would have noted I put "Thai law" in inverted commas and understand what that actually means

It was pretty clear from the outset that you were never interested in constructive response or debate on this subject, thankfully there is now no longer a need. Byeee!

[CharlieH]

This has run its course.Bickerfest over.

CLOSED.