Difficulty obtaining O non-immigrant visa

[Evilbaz]

For all the nitpickers out there.

Visas issued by Thai Embassies or Consulates outside the Kingdom are all issued based on a purpose for entering and staying in the Kingdom.

You select that purpose on the application form and then have to satisfy the Conditions imposed by the Thais to that purpose.

The Purpose is paramount - not what is "stamped on the Visa".

To my knowledge OA Visas are only issued on the basis of satisfying the Conditions for Retirement only.

The same applies to Extensions within the Kingdom - satisfying the Conditions for the Purpose of the Extension.

If the Thais themselves, both outside the Kingdom and at Immigration within both refer to these as Retirement Visas and Retirement Extensions They are Correct!

Q.E.D.

[johnatong]

For all the nitpickers out there.

Visas issued by Thai Embassies or Consulates outside the Kingdom are all issued based on a purpose for entering and staying in the Kingdom.

You select that purpose on the application form and then have to satisfy the Conditions imposed by the Thais to that purpose.

The Purpose is paramount - not what is "stamped on the Visa".

To my knowledge OA Visas are only issued on the basis of satisfying the Conditions for Retirement only.

The same applies to Extensions within the Kingdom - satisfying the Conditions for the Purpose of the Extension.

If the Thais themselves, both outside the Kingdom and at Immigration within both refer to these as Retirement Visas and Retirement Extensions They are Correct!

Q.E.D.

O/A visas are issued to those who are 1) 50 or over and 2) able to meet the financial requirements. There is no need to be "retired" to get the visa.

Edited May 27, 2016 by johnatong

[Suradit69]

You are over complicating this.

All you need is a letter from the U.S Embassy in Bangkok.

You tell them your income and they provide the document.

Proof is not needed as they believe you.

"All you need is a letter from the U.S Embassy in Bangkok."

If he's going to be in Chiang Mai, no need to travel to the embassy in Bangkok since there's a consulate in CM.

It isn't a question of believing you, you are taking an oath, and many of us who use this process still supply documentary evidence to support the income declaration when applying for an extension. Immigrations can, and sometimes do, ask for some evidence supporting the claim.

[Suradit69]

For all the nitpickers out there.

Visas issued by Thai Embassies or Consulates outside the Kingdom are all issued based on a purpose for entering and staying in the Kingdom.

You select that purpose on the application form and then have to satisfy the Conditions imposed by the Thais to that purpose.

The Purpose is paramount - not what is "stamped on the Visa".

To my knowledge OA Visas are only issued on the basis of satisfying the Conditions for Retirement only.

The same applies to Extensions within the Kingdom - satisfying the Conditions for the Purpose of the Extension.

If the Thais themselves, both outside the Kingdom and at Immigration within both refer to these as Retirement Visas and Retirement Extensions They are Correct!

Q.E.D.

"To my knowledge OA Visas are only issued on the basis of satisfying the Conditions for Retirement only."

The application for an O-A visa does not mention the word "retirement" nor is that a requirement for the visa. In most cases those applying for it may indeed be retired and it is often (incorrectly) called a "retirement visa," but those who meet the age, financial and other requirements can get the visa even if they are still employed back in Farangland.

If the Thais themselves, both outside the Kingdom and at Immigration within both refer to these as Retirement Visas and Retirement Extensions They are Correct!

The Thais themselves speak Thai and rules regarding visas or extensions are written in Thai, not English. The use of the English word "retirement" is a convenience for non-Thai speakers, but does not impose a restriction on the purpose or requirements for either.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Suradit69

[Eclipse]

You are over complicating this.

All you need is a letter from the U.S Embassy in Bangkok.

You tell them your income and they provide the document.

Proof is not needed as they believe you.

"All you need is a letter from the U.S Embassy in Bangkok."

If he's going to be in Chiang Mai, no need to travel to the embassy in Bangkok since there's a consulate in CM.

It isn't a question of believing you, you are taking an oath, and many of us who use this process still supply documentary evidence to support the income declaration when applying for an extension. Immigrations can, and sometimes do, ask for some evidence supporting the claim.

Yep. I forgot that Americans actually get help from their Embassy / Consulate.

Being a Brit I am used to getting nothing.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Eclipse

[moe666]

If you cannot get your non-o before you leave and want to avoid the conversion process you can do as many and just go to Laos with all of you proof of income from US Embassy and get a non-o there I know several people who have done this and they were happy to have went this route

[kokopelli]

I'll make it a simple question.

Has anyone arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa, converted it to a non-immigrant visa and then a retirement visa without leaving Thailand?

That is all the info i require right now. Due to my rather complicated situation obtaining a non Immi visa before I arrive will be difficult.

Yes, I did exactly that. Arrived on Tourist Visa and got non-immigrant O visa.Had to be done in Immigration in Bangkok. Then as US citizen simply got a letter of retirement income from US Embassy in Bangkok which required no proof on my part which I then used to get extension of stay. That was done in Jomtien/Pattaya.

[NancyL]

I'll make it a simple question.

Has anyone arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa, converted it to a non-immigrant visa and then a retirement visa without leaving Thailand?

That is all the info i require right now. Due to my rather complicated situation obtaining a non Immi visa before I arrive will be difficult.

Yes. I arrived on as a tourist on a 30 day Visa exempt permission to stay. I had B800K in a Thai Bank, went to immigration Bangkok and they issued me with a Non-O Visa stamped "Non O - for the Retirement (written in Thai). I then went to another desk and it was stamped "USED" and they gave me a 90 days permission to stay on the basis of Retirement whist the B800K was further aging in the bank and told me to come back in 30 days when the money had aged 60 days. I then returned and the gave me 12months permission to stay back dated from my original application. Whatever some clowns say in this forum, a Non-O Visa on the basis of retirement is issued in country by Thai Immigration. I have posted photos of this Visa several times before, it clearly says VISA and Type "O" is entered on the line which says type of visa.

Yes, that's how it's suppose to work, but they'll put a newly arrived retiree thru the wringer in Chiang Mai in an effort to get them to use a visa agent. First, a new arrival will hear about how retirement visas are handled out at the Immigration office at Promenada mall, which like the OP's current situation is about 20 km out of city center, and you have to arrive at 4 am to be sure to get a queue number for a retirement extension. So, after paying a premium taxi/tuk-tuk fare at 3:30 am to get out to the mall, the OP will finally get to see an Imm officer at 8:45 am, only to be told "go to Immigration office near the airport" If the OP attempts to ask questions, the answer will be "go to airport". (some hapless souls actually go to the airport)

Once at the Imm. office at near the airport, the OP will learn that s/he should have queued up at 4 am there, too, to talk with an Imm officer because the college interns at the Info desk are hopeless. So, s'he'll return the next day at the crack of dawn only to discover that a conversion to an O visa isn't possible because less than 15 days remain on the 30 day visa exempt entry and guess where 30-day visa exempt entries are done? Yup at the Promenada office -- 25 km away. Another day lost.

After getting the 30 day extension, the hopeful OP will return to the Imm. office near the airport at 4 am for yet another attempt to obtain an O visa only to be told an Income Letter from the U.S. Consulate is needed. Gee, why couldn't that have been disclosed at the same time it was pointed out that more than 15 days validity was needed on the permission stay? So, off to a computer to schedule an appointment at the U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai. At least you can schedule appointments on-line with them and not have to arrive at 4 am to queue.

Do you see what I mean? This is how retirees are treated by Immigration in Chiang Mai. It's disgraceful and it's not like this anywhere else in Thailand. And as president of the Chiang Mai Expats Club, we've simply given up trying to affect change and decided all we can do is warn potential retirees to obtain the proper visa before they come to Chiang Mai. Ideally an O-A visa in their home country and if that isn't possible, then an O visa.

[Catoni]

I want the retirement visa. There is such a thing.

Your "research" has led you to a mistaken conclusion !

There really is NO Thai "retirement" visa that you can obtain in Thailand or anywhere else

You can get a one year extension of stay (it is not a visa) based on retirement providing you can meet the requirements.

I googled "Thai retirement visa" and it gave 466,000 responses.

You can google anything and get lots of responses. That doesn't make it a fact.

I googled Flying Spaghetti Monster and got "about 4,300,000 results (0.34 seconds)".

That doesn't mean there is such a thing.

[Hedghog]

I'll make it a simple question.

Has anyone arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa, converted it to a non-immigrant visa and then a retirement visa without leaving Thailand?

That is all the info i require right now. Due to my rather complicated situation obtaining a non Immi visa before I arrive will be difficult.

Simple answer.

Yes I have.

[aslimversgwm]

I'll make it a simple question.

Has anyone arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa, converted it to a non-immigrant visa and then a retirement visa without leaving Thailand?

That is all the info i require right now. Due to my rather complicated situation obtaining a non Immi visa before I arrive will be difficult.

Simple answer.

Yes I have.

Not in Chiang Mai I bet! Or you used an agent perhaps?

[ubonjoe]

I'll make it a simple question.

Has anyone arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa, converted it to a non-immigrant visa and then a retirement visa without leaving Thailand?

That is all the info i require right now. Due to my rather complicated situation obtaining a non Immi visa before I arrive will be difficult.

Simple answer.

Yes I have.

Not in Chiang Mai I bet! Or you used an agent perhaps?

Chiang Mai immigration does the conversion or change of visa status to obtain a non immigrant visa entry now. There was a period of time they didn't.

[sawadeeken]

You can always do as I just did...........in Pattaya/Jomtien Immigrations..........

After 3 visits to Pattaya and one visit to Chang Wattana to try to obtain retirement visa with just having a 30 day 'Entry' stamp and each time offers of special assistance for a fee of 20,000 baht, I finally, this time, gave in and Paid the 'special service' fee of 20,000 Baht to the immigration officer

The Army hasn't gotten around to cleaning up the graft in Immigrations yet (I think the 2 Departments could be related and not want to clean it up)

[elgordo38]

Thanks ubonjoe and everyone who replied.

Can conversions be done in Chiang Mai?

I will need income affidavits from Canada and the US. I might be able to obtain them from the Ecuador based consuls offices before I leave. Do they need to be notarized?

If so will Ecuadorean notaries be valid?

If you have bank statements from Canada showing your pension deposit the honorary Canadian

consulate will give you a letter here in Chiang Mai with proof of said statement. Also with proof of said bank statement the Canadian embassy in Bangkok with give you a general letter stating they have seen your proof of income. With 3 pensions you might have to have do proof from the USA and Canada to reach the 65,000 baht a month figure. The US also has a consulate here in CM. Ubon Joe here gives the best advice he knows his onions.

Edited May 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

I'm in Chiang Mai and up-to-date on what's going on with retirement visa extensions and visa conversions here. Yes, it's possible to come into Chiang Mai with a 30-day visa exempt entry stamp, but it's a PITA to do the conversion in Chiang Mai -- by design. There are two Immigration offices and if you go to one with questions they'll just tell you to go to the other office. They want you to use a visa agent for the process and not bother them.

As suggested, do anything you can to get that 90 day O visa from the Honorary Consul in Quito before you come. Then you can go to the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai and obtain an "Income Letter". It doesn't matter if some of your income if from an non-U.S. source, you are attesting to your TOTAL monthly income. Then you can use that Income Letter to apply for a "12 month extension due to retirement" at CM Immigration's office at Promenada Mall during the last 30 days of your permission to enter stamp.

You'll totally avoid all the hassle of trying to do a "conversion" in-country.

Once you have that "retirement extension", you'll have what most people call a "retirement visa". It really isn't a "visa", but rather a 1-year extension due to retirement, but oh well, even the Immigration people call it a "retirement visa". There is no need for you to leave the country every 90 days. All you have to do is file a "90 day report" if you don't leave. The 90 day report isn't much of a hassle. It's free and can by done by mail, on-line (most of the time; the Imm. computer system isn't very user-friendly) or in person but they don't hassle people much when they report in person.

Chiang Mai has the worst Immigration office in all of Thailand when it comes to long queues and wait times and lack of anyone available to explain the rules to customers. Do everything you can to avoid any contact with them.

I think Nancy L edges out Ubon Joe when it comes to he ground game here in Chiang Mai. She knows the "system" inside and out. She is a good friend to have once you arrive. All the information she has accumulated would definitely give me a system overload warning Edited May 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[ubonjoe]

Thanks ubonjoe and everyone who replied.

Can conversions be done in Chiang Mai?

I will need income affidavits from Canada and the US. I might be able to obtain them from the Ecuador based consuls offices before I leave. Do they need to be notarized?

If so will Ecuadorean notaries be valid?

If you have bank statements from Canada showing your pension deposit the honorary Canadian

consulate will give you a letter here in Chiang Mai with proof of said statement. Also with proof of said bank statement the Canadian embassy in Bangkok with give you a general letter stating they have seen your proof of income. With 3 pensions you might have to have do proof from the USA and Canada to reach the 65,000 baht a month figure. The US also has a consulate here in CM. Ubon Joe here gives the best advice he knows his onions.

As I stated in a earlier post he only needs the affidavit from the US consulate in Chiang Mai. All he needs to do is put his total income on it.

[jacksam]

Thanks ubonjoe and everyone who replied.

Can conversions be done in Chiang Mai?

I will need income affidavits from Canada and the US. I might be able to obtain them from the Ecuador based consuls offices before I leave. Do they need to be notarized?

If so will Ecuadorean notaries be valid?

If you have bank statements from Canada showing your pension deposit the honorary Canadian

consulate will give you a letter here in Chiang Mai with proof of said statement. Also with proof of said bank statement the Canadian embassy in Bangkok with give you a general letter stating they have seen your proof of income. With 3 pensions you might have to have do proof from the USA and Canada to reach the 65,000 baht a month figure. The US also has a consulate here in CM. Ubon Joe here gives the best advice he knows his onions.

He does not need to take any statements to prove income. He has USA pp. He can go to USA embassy and make affirmation that he has said income. When he takes that statement to Thai imm he could take along some bank statements but will not be required. As stated earlier if he enters visa exempt he could obtain non O at somewhere like Vientiane.

[elgordo38]

Again Nancy L is showing you the ropes and hoops you must jump here. Feel free to PM with any questions. My condo is a great place to live great people live here friendly and very diverse. We have a large pool and are close to everything very central. The visa agent solves all your problems but I still prefer to show them that I will not give in to their (immigration. They have skin in this game) obvious preference that I use them. I will stand in line and jump through their hoops that one day of the year in defiance. Besides with everyone switching to agents the morning lines should be getting shorter. I will find out in September. Welcome to the Land of Oz.

Edited May 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[Guest]

First. the ground rules:

(1) I am trying to help and do not want BS from the TV peanut gallery.

(2) As far as i am concerned, the ONLY person on TV whose opinion is worth FOLLOWING is UbonJoe. The rest are.. at best .. "educated guesses."

(3) You are an American Passport holder over the retirement age.

Why are you jumping through hoops to do this in Thailand?

There are several Thai Consulate in the USA that will issue this before you leave .. and all this can be done with a telephone and knowing how to use FedEx.

Try calling the one in Portland for fast service and nice people. They will explain it to you and in short order, you should have a beautiful stamp in your passport.

By the way, when you go forward years later to for a new Non Immigrant O , the fact that the original originated in the USA is a "gold standard"

Royal Thai Honorary Consulate General
The Maytag Building
1136 NW Hoyt Street, Suite 210
Portland, Oregon 97209 U.S.A.

Phone: 503-221-0440
Fax: 503-221-0550

Email: [email protected]

[Eclipse]

(2) As far as i am concerned, the ONLY person on TV whose opinion is worth FOLLOWING is UbonJoe. The rest are.. at best .. "educated guesses."

You know that for a fact do you?

I for one never guess, and that goes for many of our valued members.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Eclipse

[eliotness]

I too may have a problem with my non O visa based on marriage. For various reasons, my fault, I went to Savannakhet early this month and forgot some documents. So I intend to go again tomorrow, this time with all the documents. Trouble is I've been told because I have only 5 and a half months left on my passport (expires 16th Nov) that I may be refused re-entry and not get my visa. Please has anyone got experience of such matters, or maybe some good advice. Please guys help appreciated .

[ubonjoe]

I too may have a problem with my non O visa based on marriage. For various reasons, my fault, I went to Savannakhet early this month and forgot some documents. So I intend to go again tomorrow, this time with all the documents. Trouble is I've been told because I have only 5 and a half months left on my passport (expires 16th Nov) that I may be refused re-entry and not get my visa. Please has anyone got experience of such matters, or maybe some good advice. Please guys help appreciated .

Laos requires 6 months of validity to enter and there have been reports of people being turned away because of it. Also 6 months validity is required to apply for the non-o visa.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife to give you time to get a new passport.

[eliotness]

I too may have a problem with my non O visa based on marriage. For various reasons, my fault, I went to Savannakhet early this month and forgot some documents. So I intend to go again tomorrow, this time with all the documents. Trouble is I've been told because I have only 5 and a half months left on my passport (expires 16th Nov) that I may be refused re-entry and not get my visa. Please has anyone got experience of such matters, or maybe some good advice. Please guys help appreciated .

Laos requires 6 months of validity to enter and there have been reports of people being turned away because of it. Also 6 months validity is required to apply for the non-o visa.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife to give you time to get a new passport.

Joe I live near Nang Rong, where do you think I can apply for a 60 day extention ? Another problem, ooops I had two 30 days extentions, so it looks like I'm in deep pooh. What can I do ? Serious panic mode setting in now !

[ubonjoe]

I too may have a problem with my non O visa based on marriage. For various reasons, my fault, I went to Savannakhet early this month and forgot some documents. So I intend to go again tomorrow, this time with all the documents. Trouble is I've been told because I have only 5 and a half months left on my passport (expires 16th Nov) that I may be refused re-entry and not get my visa. Please has anyone got experience of such matters, or maybe some good advice. Please guys help appreciated .

Laos requires 6 months of validity to enter and there have been reports of people being turned away because of it. Also 6 months validity is required to apply for the non-o visa.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife to give you time to get a new passport.

Joe I live near Nang Rong, where do you think I can apply for a 60 day extention ? Another problem, ooops I had two 30 days extentions, so it looks like I'm in deep pooh. What can I do ? Serious panic mode setting in now !

You will use the Kap Choeng immigration office that is located in Surin near the border. It can be found on this map. Address and Google Map location of immigration offices

Your previous extensions will not effect getting the 60 day extension.

Your wife will need to be with you when you apply. You will need your marriage certificate plus a copy, copies of your wife's house book registry and ID card. You will need proof of residence unless you living where your wife's house book is for.

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post has been removed.

[IMA_FARANG]

"OP you don't obtain a "retirement visa". After you have your non imm O then in last 30 days you obtain 12 month extension of permission of stay."

jacksam, my research indicates that a 1 year non-immigration visa requires re-entry every 90 days.

There is such a thing as a retirement visa and it does not require leaving every 90 days as it appears to be with a 1 year non-immigrant visa.

I want the retirement visa. There is such a thing.

----------------------

Yes there is a thing often referred to as a ":retirement visa"

What it is actually called is an O-A retirement visa and many Thai embassies refer to it as a "retirement visa"

Your problem is that for U.S. citizens it is:

• Only issued in the U,S. (Used to be only at the Thai embassy in Washington D,C, but that may have been changed now).
• Requires a police records check to be done in your U.S. residence address usually by the local police where you reside
• Requires a Doctor's certification /check
• Costs a $200 fee for approval
• Takes some time for approval,
• The Advantage for you, if you can get one, is that your first entry to Thailand with this visa would get you a one year stay with multi entries possible.
• During the first year, exiting Thailand and re-entering would get you another one year entry, so using this O-A retirement visa wisely could get you a basic 2 year stay in Thailand.

I am not sure you would be able to get this type of visa or not. I am not an expert on this visa, but it certainly does exist.

[eliotness]

I too may have a problem with my non O visa based on marriage. For various reasons, my fault, I went to Savannakhet early this month and forgot some documents. So I intend to go again tomorrow, this time with all the documents. Trouble is I've been told because I have only 5 and a half months left on my passport (expires 16th Nov) that I may be refused re-entry and not get my visa. Please has anyone got experience of such matters, or maybe some good advice. Please guys help appreciated .

Laos requires 6 months of validity to enter and there have been reports of people being turned away because of it. Also 6 months validity is required to apply for the non-o visa.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife to give you time to get a new passport.

Joe I live near Nang Rong, where do you think I can apply for a 60 day extention ? Another problem, ooops I had two 30 days extentions, so it looks like I'm in deep pooh. What can I do ? Serious panic mode setting in now !

You will use the Kap Choeng immigration office that is located in Surin near the border. It can be found on this map. Address and Google Map location of immigration offices

Your previous extensions will not effect getting the 60 day extension.

Your wife will need to be with you when you apply. You will need your marriage certificate plus a copy, copies of your wife's house book registry and ID card. You will need proof of residence unless you living where your wife's house book is for.

So Joe, you really think (sorry maybe that should be a "you know") that with only 5 and a half months (16th Nov) I will have serious problems. As I was planning to leave early tomorrow, I'd have to cancel my hotel in Savannakhet and go instead to Kap Choeng on Monday. I was planning to go to Bangkok for a new passport in August, but from what you say I'd have to go maybe the end of June - I've no idea, but how long does it take for a new UK passport to come back do you have to go again to Bangkok or is it delivered to your door ?? Finally, what do they charge for a 60 day extension ? - sorry Joe, so many questions, I'm still learning the tricks of the expat trade, so your advice is most warmly welcomed.

And finally finally - will Immigration at Kap Cheong require proof of income > 40,000 Baht a month ? if so then I'm really really in the pooh.

Cheers Joe

Edited May 28, 2016 by eliotness

[johnatong]

1900 Bht for the 60 day extension and no proof of income is required

UK passports are reported to be taking 3-4 weeks to process and when available have to be collect from the office in Bangkok.

It is extremely unlikely you will be allowed entry to Laos with less than 6 months validity remaining on the passport.

[eliotness]

1900 Bht for the 60 day extension and no proof of income is required

UK passports are reported to be taking 3-4 weeks to process and when available have to be collect from the office in Bangkok.

It is extremely unlikely you will be allowed entry to Laos with less than 6 months validity remaining on the passport.

Cheers john, I've cancelled my hotel in Savannakhet and will go to Kap Cheong Monday morning. So if I go Bangkok at the end of June I might be a bit pushed to get my new passport by the end of July from Bangkok and then go up to Savannakhet again before the end of July. I rely on my works pension which is paid at the end of the month. Guess I might have to make some arrangements to fund the trips !

Edited May 28, 2016 by eliotness

[ubonjoe]

1900 Bht for the 60 day extension and no proof of income is required

UK passports are reported to be taking 3-4 weeks to process and when available have to be collect from the office in Bangkok.

It is extremely unlikely you will be allowed entry to Laos with less than 6 months validity remaining on the passport.

More like 2 to 3 weeks in recent reports.