In-patient only cover with high excess?

[Craig krup]

It's proving mighty difficult to identify what I would have thought would have been the preferred policy for a lot of people. Health cover, like all insurance, depends on the risk you pose. You can buy six weeks health cover for a holiday in Thailand for £35 if you 1) pay the first £500, and 2) don't have coverage for STDs or motorbike accidents. If you don't smoke, don't drink, don't knock about with hookers and generally have good health your real worry is something cataclysmic happening, like a stroke or a life-threatening assault. I'd happily pay the first (say) £3,000 of emergency cover, and pay for routine appointments and the like, if I could have cheap coverage against a catastrophe. But it looks as if there isn't a sufficiently sophisticated system in place that allows you to put yourself in that "pool". In the UK if you "drive like a girl" - and have a device in the car that measures changes in velocity - you can get cheap car insurance. You'd think that some company would have worked out that there's a cohort of farangs who don't want to pay premiums that are inflated by the behaviour of others, and who are prepared to pay for their own routine health cover. The teacher in the link below paid 8,000 baht a year for catastrophe cover, but it seems to be a policy for teachers. Anyone know of something similar - pay a high excess, pay for your own routine and (essentially) only get cover for real disasters?

http://www.ajarn.com/ajarn-street/articles/when-illness-strikes/

[johnatong]

It depends on what you are looking for. I doubt the low cost, high cover policy exists.

If you are from the UK and are looking for short term holiday insurance check Saga who depending on age, need and any pre-existing conditions offer good value with cover extending to £10 million.

Otherwise you will have to explore what is offered by the major companies. An insurance broker can be of assistance.

[Sheryl]

Are you looking for ongoing health insurance or travel insurance?

Locally (Thai) issued policies seldom include these options but internationally issued policies usually do, with choices for excess, initial copay etc and the level of cover in internationally issued policies is always well above what you would need for care in Thailand.

Google "expat insurance". Cigna Global and AXA are two but there are more. Most let you calculate premiums online. Be forewarned that giving your true phone number will lead to sales calls so you may want to just enter a string of 1's for that.

[Craig krup]

Are you looking for ongoing health insurance or travel insurance?

Locally (Thai) issued policies seldom include these options but internationally issued policies usually do, with choices for excess, initial copay etc and the level of cover in internationally issued policies is always well above what you would need for care in Thailand.

Google "expat insurance". Cigna Global and AXA are two but there are more. Most let you calculate premiums online. Be forewarned that giving your true phone number will lead to sales calls so you may want to just enter a string of 1's for that.

I know exactly what you mean. Give them your details and you're (ironically) a dead man. If you're flying in and out you can use cheap travel insurance with exactly the characteristics that I like, but that couldn't be a long-term solution.

The rational part of me says that if I had a heart attack or a stroke - given the care I take - the last thing I'd be worried about would be losing £10,000: my self-obsession would mean that my health would be a much bigger concern. The irrational part of me, however, would like a policy.

[Craig krup]

It depends on what you are looking for. I doubt the low cost, high cover policy exists.

If you are from the UK and are looking for short term holiday insurance check Saga who depending on age, need and any pre-existing conditions offer good value with cover extending to £10 million.

Otherwise you will have to explore what is offered by the major companies. An insurance broker can be of assistance.

Insurance is dirt cheap compared to long-term cover, and it's because the group of people who stay have different characteristics: they go to wrack and ruin, and they don't have the care and maintenance work done in the developed world which would prevent (or at least identify) later problems. I'm health obsessed and know my real risks. I'd like to find a way to monetise that.

[chakatee]

Google BDAE

[Craig krup]

Google BDAE

Thanks. Interesting.

https://www.bdae.com/en/

[wooloomooloo]

Craig, your posts are extremely, ahem, extreme. Can you please elaborate in more balanced and measured response.

Health insurance or travel insurance? And without all the unnecessary nonsense.

Personally, my Bupa travel insurance is excess-free as I pay the premium for the privilege.

You'll receive a wealth of knowledgeable replies once you learn to calm down and answer the questions sensibly.

[Craig krup]

Craig, your posts are extremely, ahem, extreme. Can you please elaborate in more balanced and measured response.

Health insurance or travel insurance? And without all the unnecessary nonsense.

Personally, my Bupa travel insurance is excess-free as I pay the premium for the privilege.

You'll receive a wealth of knowledgeable replies once you learn to calm down and answer the questions sensibly.

Somebody once asked what a poem meant. The poet replied that if what he'd wanted to say could have been said in prose he'd have used prose.

1) Health insurance, like all insurance, is priced according the risk to the insurer posed by the pool of people like you. I could use a simpler sentence here, but it would say something different.

2) In Thailand a 51 year old male will be assumed to be a whoremongering heart attack on legs. I'm not.

3) The average westerner interacts with health care professionals on multiple occasions every year. I don't.

4) I'm not alone. There's a market for a policy that would suit people like me.

5) That responsiveness results in travel policies for people like me.

6) You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment unless you're royally f******d up by something major, because that can happen to anyone and you're the kind of person who knows that all the other stuff happens to whingeing half-wits who are the authors of their own misfortune. You don't want to pay for them, and we recognise that".

Or - in colloquial Glaswegian - "Gonny gies burst hert, stroke, chibbed cover fur aboot £250 a year, an' al shell oot fur the first three grand, which probly means you'll no need tae pony up a washer".

Edited June 3, 2016 by Craig krup

[wooloomooloo]

Good luck in whatever you do, Craig.

[johnatong]

Craig, your posts are extremely, ahem, extreme. Can you please elaborate in more balanced and measured response.

Health insurance or travel insurance? And without all the unnecessary nonsense.

Personally, my Bupa travel insurance is excess-free as I pay the premium for the privilege.

You'll receive a wealth of knowledgeable replies once you learn to calm down and answer the questions sensibly.

Somebody once asked what a poem meant. The poet replied that if what he'd wanted to say could have been said in prose he'd have used prose.

1) Health insurance, like all insurance, is priced according the risk to the insurer posed by the pool of people like you. I could use a simpler sentence here, but it would say something different.

2) In Thailand a 51 year old male will be assumed to be a whoremongering heart attack on legs. I'm not.

3) The average westerner interacts with health care professionals on multiple occasions every year. I don't.

4) I'm not alone. There's a market for a poli

cy that would suit people like me.

5) That responsiveness results in travel policies for people like me.

6) You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment unless you're royally f******d up by something major, because that can happen to anyone and you're the kind of person who knows that all the other stuff happens to whingeing half-wits who are the authors of their own misfortune. You don't want to pay for them, and we recognise that".

Or - in colloquial Glaswegian - "Gonny gies burst hert, stroke, chibbed cover fur aboot £250 a year, an' al shell oot fur the first three grand, which probly means you'll no need tae pony up a washer".

"You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment""

If you want a policy which excludes GP visits, Outpatient & In-patient care you do not need health insurance.

[impulse]

6) You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment unless you're royally f******d up by something major, because that can happen to anyone and you're the kind of person who knows that all the other stuff happens to whingeing half-wits who are the authors of their own misfortune. You don't want to pay for them, and we recognise that".

I know exactly what you're looking for. It's available back home. It's what I buy when I need to buy insurance on my own.

But perhaps the reason it's not easy to find here is because they know that people who never get preventive care suffer higher catastrophic claims?

I get what I refer to as catastrophic care insurance back home with a ridiculously high deductible and huge maximum annual out of pocket, and real big limit. But I go to the doctor regularly anyway. I just pay out of pocket, reserving the coverage for those cases that would have bankrupted me. Lot of people I know do the same.

But expats living in Thailand are a very different demographic, living a very different lifestyle. I suspect that skews the odds greatly.

[Sheryl]

No, as stated, such expat insurance is readily available. But not from Thai insurers, from international ones.

The local insurance market is quite small and limited in range of products - because there just isn't much of a market, Thais already having cover through the national systems. Local policies also tend, for some reason, to have ridiculously and unrealistically low coverage caps.

In-patient only coverage with large deductible specifically for expats easily obtained from European insurers.

[ricklev]

Saw this the other day - lower prices with 10000 baht deductible inpatient only.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bkexpats.kc/permalink/1386709748022943/?sale_post_id=1386709748022943

Health Insurance

฿13,870

Bangkok, Thailand

Hello fellow Expats,

My company (Dhipaya Insurance PCL), has just put together a healthcare package specifically for Expats in Thailand that's up to 50% cheaper than Bupa.

It gives you....

- 5 million baht annual coverage at all major hospitals.

- 10,000 baht a night room allowance(90 days)

- A card which is accepted at 90% of hospitals so no need to pay cash.

- Worldwide coverage (including America)

All this for as little as 13,870thb (Yearly)

P.M. Me your email for more information

NB. Eligible people

-Worker permit holders
-Education visa
-Spouse visa
-Retiree visa (Age below 60)
-Thai elite visa

Thai people are also eligible to apply

Thanks!

Ben

Edited June 3, 2016 by ricklev

[Craig krup]

Craig, your posts are extremely, ahem, extreme. Can you please elaborate in more balanced and measured response.

Health insurance or travel insurance? And without all the unnecessary nonsense.

Personally, my Bupa travel insurance is excess-free as I pay the premium for the privilege.

You'll receive a wealth of knowledgeable replies once you learn to calm down and answer the questions sensibly.

Somebody once asked what a poem meant. The poet replied that if what he'd wanted to say could have been said in prose he'd have used prose.

1) Health insurance, like all insurance, is priced according the risk to the insurer posed by the pool of people like you. I could use a simpler sentence here, but it would say something different.

2) In Thailand a 51 year old male will be assumed to be a whoremongering heart attack on legs. I'm not.

3) The average westerner interacts with health care professionals on multiple occasions every year. I don't.

4) I'm not alone. There's a market for a poli

cy that would suit people like me.

5) That responsiveness results in travel policies for people like me.

6) You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment unless you're royally f******d up by something major, because that can happen to anyone and you're the kind of person who knows that all the other stuff happens to whingeing half-wits who are the authors of their own misfortune. You don't want to pay for them, and we recognise that".

Or - in colloquial Glaswegian - "Gonny gies burst hert, stroke, chibbed cover fur aboot £250 a year, an' al shell oot fur the first three grand, which probly means you'll no need tae pony up a washer".

"You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment""

If you want a policy which excludes GP visits, Outpatient & In-patient care you do not need health insurance.

A nice quip, but unfortunately you haven't managed to read what I wrote - "...unless you're royally f******d up by something major..."

And that's exactly my point. I can read "Powerful oxidising agent" and act on the sign, so I'd like to place myself in the insurance group called "People who can read and act on what they've read", and maybe thereby save myself a few quid.

[Craig krup]

Saw this the other day - lower prices with 10000 baht deductible inpatient only.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bkexpats.kc/permalink/1386709748022943/?sale_post_id=1386709748022943

Health Insurance

฿13,870

Bangkok, Thailand

Hello fellow Expats,

My company (Dhipaya Insurance PCL), has just put together a healthcare package specifically for Expats in Thailand that's up to 50% cheaper than Bupa.

It gives you....

- 5 million baht annual coverage at all major hospitals.

- 10,000 baht a night room allowance(90 days)

- A card which is accepted at 90% of hospitals so no need to pay cash.

- Worldwide coverage (including America)

All this for as little as 13,870thb (Yearly)

P.M. Me your email for more information

NB. Eligible people

-Worker permit holders

-Education visa

-Spouse visa

-Retiree visa (Age below 60)

-Thai elite visa

Thai people are also eligible to apply

Thanks!

Ben

Brilliant. It'll be interesting to see what an actual quote looks like.

[wooloomooloo]

I'm losing the will to live. Maybe I'll be covered for such an event.

Stone the crows.

[Craig krup]

I'm losing the will to live. Maybe I'll be covered for such an event.

Stone the crows.

Stop reading it!

"I hate this restaurant. They've disappointed me every day for the last fourteen years".

Don't like long paragraphs of interconnected sentences? Don't go to the place that serves them.

[wooloomooloo]

Yes, well, whatever you say, Craig.

I'm forlornly waiting for a coherent post so that your OP is lucid enough for us to understand.

Still waiting.

[Craig krup]

Yes, well, whatever you say, Craig.

I'm forlornly waiting for a coherent post so that your OP is lucid enough for us to understand.

Still waiting.

Why "us"? Look - a considerable number of replies all of which demonstrate understanding. I don't understand chemistry, but I don't conclude that chemists don't understand each other.

[wooloomooloo]

Is it health insurance or travel insurance, Craig? Are you a short-term visitor or long-term resident? We'll go from there.

[Craig krup]

Is it health insurance or travel insurance, Craig? Are you a short-term visitor or long-term resident? We'll go from there.

"Health cover, " - first two words, second sentence.

At the moment I visit for six weeks at a time - arrive 30th this month - and six weeks cover for everything only costs £35, with a £500 excess and I'm not covered for motorbikes or STDs. Fair enough. My employer's offering money - or they have been for the last six years - for people to sod off, and I'm pretty much at the point of taking it. If and when I do it's somewhere hot in the EU or SE Asia. Staying long-term, though, means getting some kind of cover, and I just can't see where they get their prices from. I'd take a medical if it meant not having to pay the ludicrous premiums asked for. If £35 covers me for health and everything else for a month and a half where the **** do they get their ideas for long-term expat cover?! And the answer to that rhetorical question? They get it from looking at what long-term residents cost them, which is why you have to find a way to separate yourself from that pool of high-risk individuals. Hence my question about high excesses and catastrophe only cover.

[johnatong]

Is it health insurance or travel insurance, Craig? Are you a short-term visitor or long-term resident? We'll go from there.

"Health cover, " - first two words, second sentence.

At the moment I visit for six weeks at a time - arrive 30th this month - and six weeks cover for everything only costs £35, with a £500 excess and I'm not covered for motorbikes or STDs. Fair enough. My employer's offering money - or they have been for the last six years - for people to sod off, and I'm pretty much at the point of taking it. If and when I do it's somewhere hot in the EU or SE Asia. Staying long-term, though, means getting some kind of cover, and I just can't see where they get their prices from. I'd take a medical if it meant not having to pay the ludicrous premiums asked for. If £35 covers me for health and everything else for a month and a half where the **** do they get their ideas for long-term expat cover?! And the answer to that rhetorical question? They get it from looking at what long-term residents cost them, which is why you have to find a way to separate yourself from that pool of high-risk individuals. Hence my question about high excesses and catastrophe only cover.

If you read the small print of the £35 travel insurance you will discover all the other limitations !

Decent health insurance does not come cheap ---As said before look around and use a broker to find something which suites your need.

If you do not like the cost of health insurance you have a choice of self insuring or returning to the "cheap" safety net offered by your own countries health care scheme.

[Craig krup]

I've been playing with the online calculator (below) and what's really interesting is just how quickly the premiums fall if you increase the excess by a modest amount - some of the companies allow this. So the algorithm obviously shows that the willingness to take a big excess means the company faces a low risk, so a (say) 200,000 Baht excess has to mean coverage for peanuts, if a broker can find the right firm.

http://www.pacificprime.com/compare-quotes/

[johnatong]

I've been playing with the online calculator (below) and what's really interesting is just how quickly the premiums fall if you increase the excess by a modest amount - some of the companies allow this. So the algorithm obviously shows that the willingness to take a big excess means the company faces a low risk, so a (say) 200,000 Baht excess has to mean coverage for peanuts, if a broker can find the right firm.

http://www.pacificprime.com/compare-quotes/

Are you a 30 year old male ?

Try playing the game with more realistic age.

Figure health care costs in Bht millions if you want realistic cover in Thailand.

If you can afford Bht millions in deductibles why bother with insurance ?

Edited June 4, 2016 by johnatong

[Sheryl]

There are noonsurance policies eith "millions of baht" deductible (excess) options. Obviously makes no sense. Usually the maximum is USD 5000 or about 175000 baht.

There are also copay options, for example you could take a 2000 deductible with 20-% copay not to exceed total out of pocket of 5000 per year for abput the dame premium as 5000 deductible/no copay but the latter would bring more benefit dince hodpital bills of less than 5000 are not unusual.

Deductibles and copays do significantly reduce premiums but never so low as to be "peanuts".

Note that international policy limits are usually per year not per event.

[Craig krup]

You begin to wonder what the odds are of anything exceeding 800,000 baht. If something happened to me that serious I don't think I'd give a **** about the loss of a load of baht. I'd be in the UK crying and sucking the corner of my comfort blanket, gutted that all those years of hard exercise and self-denial hadn't paid off.

As I've said before, I think a lot of what's said is intended to apply equally to all farangs, but the actual fall-back position varies by nationality: Americans, Brits, Canadians and Argentines face very different situations. Would the British state ever deny me cancer treatment if I'm paying a bucketload of tax on dividends, maintain an address and bank accounts and am media-savvy? I think not.

[Sheryl]

Bills well in excess of 1 million baht are quite common here, even in government hospitals - and in private, think 3-5 million for a catastrophic illness or accident.

If you are in a major accident or suffer a massive stroke/heart attack, or develop a massive GI bleed - or any number of other scenariors - you would nto be in a condition to fly back to the UK so so not a good fall back plan.

I have seen a lot of foreigners get into real difficulties with massive hospital expenses here because they did not insure. Often becomes a serious burden to their families back home as well. Most of the situations that would wrack up tabs of a million or more baht are not ones where you would be able to postpone treatment and return home.

[Craig krup]

Bills well in excess of 1 million baht are quite common here, even in government hospitals - and in private, think 3-5 million for a catastrophic illness or accident.

If you are in a major accident or suffer a massive stroke/heart attack, or develop a massive GI bleed - or any number of other scenariors - you would nto be in a condition to fly back to the UK so so not a good fall back plan.

I have seen a lot of foreigners get into real difficulties with massive hospital expenses here because they did not insure. Often becomes a serious burden to their families back home as well. Most of the situations that would wrack up tabs of a million or more baht are not ones where you would be able to postpone treatment and return home.

I concede most of the above, although I'm inclined to think that much of the time a guaranteed 800,000 is better than a promise of 3 million that might be unenforceable. How many people have paid 10,000 baht a month for years and then found that the company wouldn't pay out? You aren't in a strong position to defend your interests when you've been poleaxed.

[Swiss1960]

Craig, your posts are extremely, ahem, extreme. Can you please elaborate in more balanced and measured response.

Health insurance or travel insurance? And without all the unnecessary nonsense.

Personally, my Bupa travel insurance is excess-free as I pay the premium for the privilege.

You'll receive a wealth of knowledgeable replies once you learn to calm down and answer the questions sensibly.

Somebody once asked what a poem meant. The poet replied that if what he'd wanted to say could have been said in prose he'd have used prose.

1) Health insurance, like all insurance, is priced according the risk to the insurer posed by the pool of people like you. I could use a simpler sentence here, but it would say something different.

2) In Thailand a 51 year old male will be assumed to be a whoremongering heart attack on legs. I'm not.

3) The average westerner interacts with health care professionals on multiple occasions every year. I don't.

4) I'm not alone. There's a market for a policy that would suit people like me.

5) That responsiveness results in travel policies for people like me.

6) You'd think that somewhere there's a health insurance policy for a long-term resident which says, "We ain't paying for GP visits, outpatient treatment or in-patient treatment unless you're royally f******d up by something major, because that can happen to anyone and you're the kind of person who knows that all the other stuff happens to whingeing half-wits who are the authors of their own misfortune. You don't want to pay for them, and we recognise that".

Or - in colloquial Glaswegian - "Gonny gies burst hert, stroke, chibbed cover fur aboot £250 a year, an' al shell oot fur the first three grand, which probly means you'll no need tae pony up a washer".

Craig krup: You are mixing travel based health insurances with expat health insurances.

For travel based, you should talk with your home health insurer and ask them for such coverage, only for the major events. In Switzerland, mandatory health insurance is based on your age and the risks in your age group and even the risks of your age group in the district where you live. Add-on coverage for travel is then also based on that price. I had such a travel coverage while I was not yet living in Thailand and it included repatriation costs. Used it once when I had an accicent and broke my arm, covered all my expenses here and covered the costs for re-booking my flights. That is what you should do for travel.

I do not see a market here in Thailand for such travel insurances for TOURISTS, the reason is mainly that the Thai government - so far - does not care whether a tourist has health insurance or not. One of the main reasons why tourists are asked to pay first before they get any larger treatment. Remember that European countris REQUIRE a health insurance coverage for (Thai) tourists before they issue a VISA and - at least for the Swiss government - they have a list of accepted insurance companies on their website. That is the advantage and disadvantage of living in a nanny state.

For expats, you can find all you wrote above. Insurances like the international ones mentioned or then Thai based like Pacific Cross (which I have) give you the option to choose

- include or exclude out-patient treatment

- set the maximum amount covered per case / per life (as Sheryl mentioned, 3 Mio Baht should be your minimum)

- set the amount (percentage) you want to cover yourself

- annual deductible

depending on your chosen options, you can definitely reduce your monthly payments by massive amounts AND my policy even has a kick-back scheme when I do not use it.

For my wife and me (together, she in her 40's, me over 55), we pay LESS than 10'000 Baht per month and we are covered for any major issues. Yes, unlike mandatory health insurance in Europe with covers everything you have from one (or with a very short waiting period), private health insurance does require a pre-med and then excludes certain things for a period of 2-3 years (i.e. prostate disease) and requires retesting after the waiting period. For car and motorbike accidents, I do not really rely on my health insurance, that is covered by the insurances for my bike and car.

So to wrap up:

1. There is no market for Thailand based (health) travel insurances as - unlike Europe - there is no mandate (yet) for incoming tourists to have such coverage
2. There are a number of international and Thai based health insurance companies which offer you the possibility to strip down the coverage to your needs and save massive on the annual fees, if you are willing to cover some of the possible costs yourself.