Elite Card Project "under Review"

[PREM-R]

(Bangkok Post) The future of Thailand Privilege Card Co and Thai Longstay Management Co hangs in the balance now that their cost-effectiveness and management efficiency will be reviewed.

Tourism and Sports Minister Suvit Yodmani said yesterday that the evaluation of the effectiveness of the two companies set up by the previous government would be completed in one or two months.

Full Story

[The Coder]

Reading between the lines seems to confirm the elite program loses money, but they claim they will be able to start paying back 100m baht a year. However, their track record for forecasts is one of disappointment so I would take even that small number with a grain of salt as it may depend on unrealistic enrollment numbers again. The real amazing revelation to me was this: the committee would re-evaluate the performance of Thai Longstay Management Co (TLM). It has no members so far.

[naka]

Looks like the elite card executives are just trying to hold on to their jobs for as long as possible.

Now that Thaksin no longer has to be appeased, I guess it will be binned !

Naka.

[Noel]

Reading between the lines seems to confirm the elite program loses money, but they claim they will be able to start paying back 100m baht a year. However, their track record for forecasts is one of disappointment so I would take even that small number with a grain of salt as it may depend on unrealistic enrollment numbers again. The real amazing revelation to me was this: the committee would re-evaluate the performance of Thai Longstay Management Co (TLM). It has no members so far.

Hmmm, not too dissimilar to the scheme itself...

[Scott]

So do people get a refund check! Maybe they will just give them their refund in lottery tickets!

[johnnyk]

...or postage stamps.

[suiging]

T Shirts with Thaksin on the front and "kick me I'm a Donkey" on the back.

[sriracha john]

It was told to attract one million subscribers by 2008. But so far only 1,734 memberships have been sold.

WHOOPS!!!!!!!!!

....perhaps this 53rd thread on the elite card will be its last.

[Insight]

It was told to attract one million subscribers by 2008. But so far only 1,734 memberships have been sold.

WHOOPS!!!!!!!!!

....perhaps this 53rd thread on the elite card will be its last.

Shame. It's been a perfect source to describe the concept of face.

[basjke]

(Bangkok Post) The future of Thailand Privilege Card Co and Thai Longstay Management Co hangs in the balance now that their cost-effectiveness and management efficiency will be reviewed.

Tourism and Sports Minister Suvit Yodmani said yesterday that the evaluation of the effectiveness of the two companies set up by the previous government would be completed in one or two months.

Full Story

Should one read?Thank you for your financial support but due to certain circumstances we have to discontinue sevice.We''l be back soon.

Edited November 10, 2006 by basjke

[midas]

Amazing Thailand

[dave111223]

How do you predict 1 million and get 2 thousand members.... that is a big whoops.

I wonder what kind of analysis they did to come with a million?

[ratcatcher]

How do you predict 1 million and get 2 thousand members.... that is a big whoops.

I wonder what kind of analysis they did to come with a million?

A few bottles of Chivas and half a dozen king size bongs and there you are. Instant accurate business predictions. Voila.

[Noel]

How do you predict 1 million and get 2 thousand members.... that is a big whoops.

I wonder what kind of analysis they did to come with a million?

Perhaps they homed in on a number plucked from the sky by their leader and worked backwards.

They then successfully reached their target of zero and went determinedly downhill from there, having missed a rather vital point.

How strange that previous defenders of the elite cause are now conspicuous by their absence.

Oh well, they probably have a million reasons...

[ovenman]

How do you predict 1 million and get 2 thousand members.... that is a big whoops.

I wonder what kind of analysis they did to come with a million?

By all accounts, none. There was no analysis of anything whatsoever, other than a proclamation made one day by My Big. And thus it was decreed...

How strange that previous defenders of the elite cause are now conspicuous by their absence.

Oh well, they probably have a million reasons...

I can virtually guarantee that one of the resident card holders will chime in shortly with an "Even if this goes belly-up, I got my money's worth out of my Elite Card the first time I saved fifteen minutes in the immigrations queue at the airport". So that said, I've saved somebody else the bother of having to do so.

[Meerkat]

How strange that previous defenders of the elite cause are now conspicuous by their absence.

Oh well, they probably have a million reasons...

Apologies - didn't realise I had permanently to keep an eye on TV in case of such episodes. Was out playing golf and off now to have dinner. Can we pick this up a wee bit later?

Cheers.

[sriracha john]

How do you predict 1 million and get 2 thousand members.... that is a big whoops.

I wonder what kind of analysis they did to come with a million?

By all accounts, none. There was no analysis of anything whatsoever, other than a proclamation made one day by My Big. And thus it was decreed...

It was Thaksin's plan that with the one TRILLION baht windfall generated from the sale of one million Elite Cards, he could finance all his wonderful populist policies and still have enough left over to skim off billions from the program.

1,000,000,000,000 baht... yep, that was Thaksin's stated and anticipated goal... and yep, that's a whole bunch of zeros... which is what they ended up with... but without the 1 in front.

oh well, the best laid plans of mice and .. uhmm... errrr, I guess it's more accurate to just leave it off there at that point in the cliche.

How strange that previous defenders of the elite cause are now conspicuous by their absence.

Oh well, they probably have a million reasons...

I can virtually guarantee that one of the resident card holders will chime in shortly with an "Even if this goes belly-up, I got my money's worth out of my Elite Card the first time I saved fifteen minutes in the immigrations queue at the airport". So that said, I've saved somebody else the bother of having to do so.

How gallant and noble of you.

Perhaps the Elite Card staff should have been tasked with that job earlier and produced a CD for their cardholders with ready-made, standard-reply answers, exactly like yours as an example, to the myriad of probing legitimate questions that others might raise about the program to the cardholder. It could have been done in multimedia with MP3 audio files to be played in response to verbal questions and text files that could be cut and pasted in response to internet forum questions.

They wouldn't have to speak or type at all to defend their decision to buy into the program. My God, just think of all the precious time they could have saved their cardholders, what with their busy and important schedules.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

T Shirts with Thaksin on the front and "kick me I'm a Donkey" on the back.

Love it LOL

[Meerkat]

Perhaps the Elite Card staff should have been tasked with that job earlier and produced a CD for their cardholders with ready-made, standard-reply answers, exactly like yours as an example, to the myriad of probing legitimate questions that others might raise about the program to the cardholder. It could have been done in multimedia with MP3 audio files to be played in response to verbal questions and text files that could be cut and pasted in response to internet forum questions.

They wouldn't have to speak or type at all to defend their decision to buy into the program. My God, just think of all the precious time they could have saved their cardholders, what with their busy and important schedules.

Sigh...it's all getting a bit childish now, isn't it?

Anyway, what do we have? The scheme have told the government they think they can make money out of it, and it's a question of a month or two to see whether it carries on. That's all we know from the article.

If it can make money, do you have any other objection to it?

Quite amusing that they've started advertising on the Visa forum though, isn't it?

Edited November 11, 2006 by Meerkat

[backflip]

I don't understand your unmitigated joy with the failure of the program. Is it because of yuor personal emnity for Thaksin, and is it racist desire to prevent Thailand from developing?

[sriracha john]

If it can make money, do you have any other objection to it?

That would be a tremendous leap forward in the right direction IF it can. Other objections have been the misleading advertisements, eg. ability to purchase land... and making promises it can deliver on, eg. promising there won't be any changes to the program. The OP itself is rather indicative of the that.

[xbusman]

I would agree with Sriracha John, the card has been fraudulent on all fronts since inception. Unfortunately when the scam goes from not turning the meter on or selling property someone else owns to being touted by the Prime Minister and operated by the national government it becomes a national shame. I never did hear what happened with the huge bill run up on CNN but just another example of the type of action that keeps Thailand third world by destroying public credibility and hampering legitimate government projects with the fall out.

Let me be the first one though to support those lucky enough to use the program. I am confident that the vast majority of purchasers were smart enough not to dump more money into the venture than they could comfortably smoke before breakfast. During the past three years they got great service and I bet that visa hangs around for another five years or so.

Honestly, when I look at the life cycle of this thing, I think it was all in all quite successful. If we call it the Prime Ministers club, make the entry fee 1M baht, hire a gaggle of pretty girls that all speak a second language such as English or Japanese, I would have been very satisfied with 1500 to 2000 members. Remember the lifetime fee is less than many golf courses with a lot more benefits. The derailment came in the hubris of thinking millions of people would get in line. Those grand intentions blew through massive quantities of baht which is of course made up by increasing the tax load on rice farmers in the north. In the end, everyone gets scammed and skimmed, its the way governments do business. At least in this case we got to enjoy the hilarity factor.

The management skills and planning here are simply abysmal, why would we think its any different for Thailand elite than trying to get a meal delivered right to a table. In the end though, doesn't mean that the food is not tasty. The good news is that the death throes of the Elite Scam should be quite long and agonizing and when the curtain finally drops there will be another program right behind.

[astral]

If the programme is canned it will impact the whole area of investment in Thailand...............

[xbusman]

If the project is canned I doubt anyone would even notice other than those of us in the peanut gallery. This whole issue is entirely irrelevant to real money. Real money is far more focused on the Temesak decision and the pressure brought to bear on major retailers to stop expanding.

I would venture to guess that this issue is also pretty irrelevant to about 90% of the current members of the Elite, particularly considering how many were handed out for free. There might be a hundred or so who will have learned the Thai lesson the hard way but they should be glad to having only paid 1M for the education. I have met a few with sick buffaloes that cost far more and the buyer got far less.

[Meerkat]

The land idea should have never been floated. At least it was withdrawn when it became clear that it would have to circumvent the law – I'm not sure how long it's been out of the programme, but it was certainly never dangled in front of me by the reps when I enquired about joining. The longstay programme sounds a bit iffy to me on that front too.

The whole 1m members was typical Thaksin hubris – indeed I think the number that was recently quoted as a target was 7,000; much more realistic, assuming the scheme continues.

As far as costs go, the last number I read that the scheme has cost is THB 550m – about US$15m. Divide that by the reported 1,734 members who bought (rather than were given) membership and you get about $8,600 per member. Do I think that I have injected more than that amount directly into the Thai economy on the back of the card that otherwise would have gone elsewhere? Many, many times more. That was, of course, the whole point of the programme in the first place; to encourage FDI at a personal level (rather than the large corporate-style FDI which is a different matter altogether). I don't think the scheme should necessarily have to make money itself, so long as it brings more foreign income in. With the recent cancellation of the 3m investment visa for new entrants, that need is all the more apparent. All this talk about a “sufficiency economy”, however, almost makes me believe that perhaps Thailand isn't all that interested anymore. And of course it was one of Thaksin's projects, and a certain amount of “ideological cleansing” is bound to happen.

Of course if the scheme is dropped, I will adjust my investment in the country, probably according to how I am treated – no money back and the 5 year visa revoked will understandably produce the most extreme pull-out. As I've always said in these threads, it was never a programme for those for whom the loss of a mio would be more than an inconvenience. And, as is oft said about Thailand (although it pertains to investment in all developing countries), don't put more in than you can afford to walk away from.

[xbusman]

DATS WHAT IM TALKING BOUT!

Nice post Meerkat!

[Meerkat]

DATS WHAT IM TALKING BOUT!

Nice post Meerkat!

Many thanks.

Does that now get me a free pass from the usual abuse from the usual suspects? Darn...didn't think so...

[suiging]

Good post indeed. I have said on threads about the card before that If I could have afforded one, I would have got one. There is the chance some good will come out of all of this if the administration who clearly are gunning for any Toxin's left overs accept any of the Kat's erudite observations, a settled set of benefits and a professionally run company may emerge. I know the flames will rise, but there is so much negativity about LOS at present that some hope is called for.

[xbusman]

Many years ago as a young lad, I learned a valuable lesson about money. It is the differance between those that have it and those that want it.

A great customer of ours used to buy a new coach every year. Every May he and his wife would sweep into town and spend a day or two picking fabrics, colors, faucets, marbles, and it was so painful. She was sooooo particular, took lots of time, but after a few days of tough work she was happy. The coach built they would swoop back in and pick it up in July and drive together to their home in Jackson Hole WY. Next March their coach would be traded in and the process start all over, this went on for DECADES. Every trade of a year old vehicle with less than 10,000 miles would run this guy about $250,000 in costs, every year. Obviously they were not travelling much in the coach, they came back brand new, often with the lavatory and microwave never used.

One year he came in with only about 3000 miles on the coach, about time for the first oil change. He was extremely busy, short on time, and we were booked solid so I asked him "Perhaps skipping just a year might be in order".

I will never forget the response. He was about 7 foot tall, always wore a 10 gallon hat. He put his arm around my shoulders and said to me...

Son, Every year in July I pick up my coach and drive to Jackson Hole where I park it and take the helicopter up to my ranch which is 28,000 square feet under the main roof and inaccessable by paved road. I work there until September when we drive the coach to New York City where we have a little 9,000 square foot condo perched on top of a building in Manhatten. I work in New York until it gets really miserable and about November we retire to our place in the south of France which is about 130,000 sq foot. We stay put until May when we fly here to buy our new coach. Its off to New York for some serious work, and then pick up our coach on the way to the Jackson Hole ranch in July.

Now son, what you need to know is that the little lady thinks she is Coco Chanel and the greatest decorator since appliances came in Harvest Gold. If she were to ever get an itching to redecorate the ranch, the penthouse or the chateau, God help me it would be bankruptcy in about a month. This here bus just lets her scratch that itch to her little hearts content and all for only $250,000. So you just give me that goddam contract and show her to the fabric room pronto.

I thought about what he told me and that perspective and slid the contract over to him in about a New York second.

Two great lessons learned that day. First, never question a buyers motive. We seldom have real or complete vision into the actual decision process and probably could not relate anyway.

Second, money is truly a relative and arbitrary thing. It has always been a means to end, not an end in and of itself. I was stuck in the thought that money was an end because I was limited in my earnings and potential. The people that buy airplanes, coaches, buildings, Elite cards, even countries see money as a means with unlimited potential. Unfortunately, I will always consider money to be an end, thereby limiting my potential because for us 99.9999 percenters, its safe and managable.

I would venture to say that the 1M baht card for Meerkat was a means to an end, as such it was a great investment and able to walk away without stress makes it a worthwhile tool of capital. Far far far smarter investment than dumping ones life savings into a bogus company buying a house illegally in a third world country. So lighten up everybody! Wait for that poor schmuck that scraped together every last penny to get that golf cart ride at Don Muang and we can have some real fun.....

[sriracha john]

Some historical perspective... which indicates that the projection numbers are continually "off" anywhere from astronomically "off" to significantly "off". Also included are references to questionable accounting methods, the mismanagement rampant during the history of the card, and lastly address even the possibility, or lack therof, of a buy-back when talk of cancelling it were considered earlier.

My comments have never been to personally attack any card buyer... repeatedly I've said what someone choses to spend their money on is up to them. I've been more concerned that the truth surrounding the card is published and allow for a more informed public.

The Nation

Published on Oct 11, 2005

Executives of Thailand Privilege Card Co Ltd, the issuer of prestigious Thailand Elite cards, flew to Moscow last week and are later to make a trip to London, trips deemed essential in boosting the number of membership cards to 2,000 by the end of the year [2005].

More overseas trips and events are planned for next year [2006], when card numbers are expected to rise by 4,000, thanks to road shows and the assistance of overseas partners.

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At the end of April 2005, Elite Card had lost Bt250 million. Chansak Chooprasit, assistant vice president, said the loss resulted from the accepted accounting system used by membership businesses. Only 10 per cent of the revenue from membership fees can be reported every year, which means that it will take 10 years for each membership to fully show up on the company’s income statement. The company expects to break even in its 10th year.

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Published on Dec 2, 2004

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday flatly denied any buy-back of Elite cards, vowing to continue the card project. News reports had Thailand Privilege Card planning to buy back all the 600-odd cards sold to foreigners at a price of Bt1 million.

Thailand Privilege Card Co Ltd, the card issuer, will soon settle the controversial advertising bills with foreign media, which have been outstanding for months, Thaksin said.

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ELITE CARD FIASCO: ‘Minister ordered CNN ads’

Published on Oct 15, 2004

The investigation over who at the Thailand Privilege Card Co should be held responsible for the Bt300 million in advertising bills from CNN, Fortune and President magazines has stalled – after it was discovered a Cabinet member issued the order to place the ads.

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