Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

[Jingthing]

A number of small foreign owned businesses have told me such owners all over town are CRYING about slow business and also more severe treatment from the Thai authorities, making it harder for them to even continue existing in business.

I can't get into detail about the latter for obvious reasons ... but do you think this is anything more than typical low season shakeouts?

Obviously, some such businesses are still thriving and you can usually see why ... they deliver superior goods and services to customers.

But on the other hand, I have a feeling that conditions really are especially HARDER in recent times.

Any feedback?

[moonseeker]

Certainly right Jingthing. Friend, who supplies mostly foreign run restaurants & pubs etc. in BKK area tells me more than 40% of his clients have shut down last 18 months and he expects worse to come. Just check out the hundreds & hundreds of shop-houses along main roads closed down in Pattaya. Seems that many of the businesses in prime area like Bouakao keep rotating owners. Plenty of suckers around... Guess, only few really make a living, but might be wrong. Glad I never got sucked into starting something here, must be very! difficult. MS>

[ExpatOilWorker]

In recent years I have been amazed how many business rely ONLY on foreigners as customers. From Italian/French restaurants, premium coffee shops, Irish pubs, new fancy clubs, certain shopping centers, hotels and many many more.

I am sure they have done very well with tourist numbers more than doubling the last 10 years, but it is a risky strategy and with social networking the bad ones don't stay around for long.

[CHRISTIANa9]

Certainly right Jingthing. Friend, who supplies mostly foreign run restaurants & pubs etc. in BKK area tells me more than 40% of his clients have shut down last 18 months and he expects worse to come. Just check out the hundreds & hundreds of shop-houses along main roads closed down in Pattaya. Seems that many of the businesses in prime area like Bouakao keep rotating owners. Plenty of suckers around... Guess, only few really make a living, but might be wrong. Glad I never got sucked into starting something here, must be very! difficult. MS>

40% down and still surviving?

[andre47]

The future for business in Thailand speaks Chinese

[Jingthing]

The future for business in Thailand speaks Chinese

OK. I will add I've heard comments, can't say that they're true, that non-Chinese foreign owned business owners feel that Chinese owned businesses are not feeling the same pain (can't say more).

I've always felt it's brave (often foolish) for a foreigner to start a business here and I have great admiration for those who succeed.

But I feel a change.

It used to be I often felt shock/surprise when a foreign owned business that I liked closed on me.

NOW, it's more like I feel surprise when such businesses STAY OPEN. It's like I'm expecting almost all of them to fail and it's only a matter of timing.

More than ever, if you like a local business, go there soon, and don't assume it'll be there next week ...

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[Seizetheday]

In recent years I have been amazed how many business rely ONLY on foreigners as customers. From Italian/French restaurants, premium coffee shops, Irish pubs, new fancy clubs, certain shopping centers, hotels and many many more.

I am sure they have done very well with tourist numbers more than doubling the last 10 years, but it is a risky strategy and with social networking the bad ones don't stay around for long.

Yes, I don't think English pub food has quite caught on with the Thais!!

I go to different restaraunts nearly every day, very rarely do I see Thais eating there, unless a falang is paying for it.

More visitors to Thailand, but spending less money.

Tough times ahead for the Thai economy.

[Asiantravel]

The future for business in Thailand speaks Chinese

one Chinese person who was formerly the Chief Economist at Morgan Stanley isn't so optimistic

http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1919092/dont-listen-ruling-elite-world-economy-real-trouble

[KittenKong]

The future for business in Thailand speaks Chinese

And a couple of years ago it spoke Russian. And before that it was English or Arabian or Japanese or God-knows-what.

In a couple of years time it may be Indian or Spanish or Korean or Martian. But whatever it is it wont last.

[Jingthing]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The complaints I have heard is that as far as the powers that be are concerned, Chinese foreigners are in a higher class than all other foreign owners.

They feel Chinese were being spared certain things that they weren't.

I can't verify any of that, but have heard it more than once. It could just be sour grapes.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[KittenKong]

In recent years I have been amazed how many business rely ONLY on foreigners as customers. From Italian/French restaurants, premium coffee shops, Irish pubs, new fancy clubs, certain shopping centers, hotels and many many more.

I am sure they have done very well with tourist numbers more than doubling the last 10 years, .....

I'm not so sure. The "new" tourists come in large groups. They dont stay long and they dont spend much money outside of the places their group is taken too. The "old" tourists stayed a long time, and spent their money where they fancied.

Tourist arrivals are irrelevant. Tourist spending is the only meaningful figure.

[Jingthing]

As far as businesses catering to Chinese tourists, that's a different subject. As many know, most of that business now is tour buses so that doesn't impact that many SMALL business owners. They go where the buses tell them to go. Sometimes those places are small Chinese owned businesses. But opening a business focusing on INDEPENDENT Chinese travelers is obviously tough.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The complaints I have heard is that as far as the powers that be are concerned, Chinese foreigners are in a higher class than all other foreign owners.

They feel Chinese were being spared certain things that they weren't.

I can't verify any of that, but have heard it more than once. It could just be sour grapes.

JT,

How can they know exactly what the Chinese were spared that they were not. Did they confirm this with the Chinese or is it just a feeling.

To me it sounds like sour grapes and a good explanation to make their own failure less their own fault.

Foreign owned business is crashing because there are less Europeans / Americans here than before. Their business model was just wrong. Now that would imply own fault.. but who likes to admit own fault.. we all say Thais don't like it.. but truth is nobody (me included) likes admitting own faults and any excuse ia a good one.

[Jingthing]

I can't actually explicitly talk about what I have implied. You'll have to read between the lines and so far it seems, nobody has. Which is OK considering it's a topic that would be off limits to go into detail about anyway!

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[shirtless]

The government of today dont want westerners making money here, I wish western governments would reciprocate the juntas approach to Thais in western countries and that goes for land ownership and residency.

[robblok]

I can't actually explicitly talk about what I have implied. You'll have to read between the lines and so far it seems, nobody has.

If you can't why post it at an open forum and let people speculate

[Jingthing]

I can't actually explicitly talk about what I have implied. You'll have to read between the lines and so far it seems, nobody has.

If you can't why post it at an open forum and let people speculate

You are very welcome to ignore my posts. I'm not going further and I won't be BAITED to by the likes of you either. You live here. Are you really that NAIVE?

Cheers.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[robblok]

I can't actually explicitly talk about what I have implied. You'll have to read between the lines and so far it seems, nobody has.

If you can't why post it at an open forum and let people speculate

You are very welcome to ignore my posts. I'm not going further and I won't be BAITED to by the likes of you either. You live here. Are you really that NAIVE?

Cheers.

I am just not stupid enough to put something on a forum and then say I can't discuss it.

[Jingthing]

So rob thinks I'm stupid. I won't say what I think about rob. Read between the lines.

[donnybay]

Its not just the Thai authorities, some owners are fools to themselves, i walked into a newish but empty bar in the Rompho market Jomtien the other night , beer that was served felt like it had been in the fridge about 15 minutes, farang owner offered me another beer, which was the same temp, i offered to pay, but he told me to F off

Considering the rents there and the investment he has put into a double shop house, i would class the guy as a complete idiot

[Don Mega]

Certainly right Jingthing. Friend, who supplies mostly foreign run restaurants & pubs etc. in BKK area tells me more than 40% of his clients have shut down last 18 months and he expects worse to come. Just check out the hundreds & hundreds of shop-houses along main roads closed down in Pattaya. Seems that many of the businesses in prime area like Bouakao keep rotating owners. Plenty of suckers around... Guess, only few really make a living, but might be wrong. Glad I never got sucked into starting something here, must be very! difficult. MS>

40% down and still surviving?

Obviously has a very healthy mark up on the goods he sells, I wonder if he was not so greedy with profit would 40% of the customers have closed up shop ?

[robblok]

Its not just the Thai authorities, some owners are fools to themselves, i walked into a newish but empty bar in the Rompho market Jomtien the other night , beer that was served felt like it had been in the fridge about 15 minutes, farang owner offered me another beer, which was the same temp, i offered to pay, but he told me to F off

Considering the rents there and the investment he has put into a double shop house, i would class the guy as a complete idiot

fact is many owners of businesses here have never owned a similar business (or business at all) in their home country and expect to make it here. Back home a lot of people fail and here you have even more going against you. To start a business with no experience in the chosen business in a strange country is madness.

[Jingthing]

As I said there have always been closings here for all the normal reasons such as bad management, under capitalized, no market research, etc.

This seems different. Something not normal.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[lovelomsak]

I think before a large number of tourists were single guys either alone for with a group of friends.They would come an spend where ever they wished and spent heavy they were on a holiday. they could party all night,bars would stay open just to serve them all night.They could find restaurants that served their home country foods. They were rich for 2 weeks in their lives. Women,booze,fast lane fun.They stopped coming.

Why did they stop? Bars close early,foreigners treated poorly,maybe one too many coups.All the raunch is gone. Boring place now for heavy partyers. Heavy partyers are the big spenders. Got a business catering to these guys the boss must be connected and know who to hand envelopes to.

Now with these guys are gone small business's have no patrons. The new tourists are sheep taken around in buses eat where they are taken,,sleep where they are taken, spend the day doing what is planned for them. Get the picture.

America and Europe tourist and trade is exiting and Chinese and Russian are entering.It is a changing world.

[jeca22]

In the soi Buakow area, I see 2 restaurants that are always busy. One is known as the hole in the wall. It is a long running bare basics Thai restaurant that is open 24 hours and has customers seemingly around the clock. Food is more expensive than outdoors despite it being crammed and hot.

Retox is a 24 hour air conditioned sports bar best known for their 99 baht breakfast although they are constantly busy and have opened another branch recently nearby.

All to say, why can't other restaurants (Thai or foreign) just copy these 2 business models as closely as possible? Seems a no brainer.

[Jingthing]

Of course there are still some winners though of course you'd have to see their books to be certain. Just suggesting the business environment has become harsh and that there are some external factors way beyond the control of owners.

[JSixpack]

It's been a few months now since we've had a DYING PATTAYA thread Time to pile on! I assume, from past indicators, this means that Pattaya will continue its remarkable development.

We love to fearmonger and appeal to our vast number of paranoids and deathwatchers here. But no evidence whatsoever has yet been offered in this case. Remember, 6 years ago it was already observed that everything was closing down. Nothing new, eh?

In fact a farang business owner I know well is doing better than ever. His business appeals to an international clientele, however, and strongly to Thais as well. He's never had the slightest problem w/ the authorities and has always felt quite welcome.

But if you depend narrowly and critically on traditional mongers, a group most sensitive to economic vicissitudes, then you're obviously in a riskier situation, though all business has its risks.

Farang small business owners are the most notorious poor-mouths. And here we are in low season: every low season is THE WORST EVER.

I wouldn't worry too much.

[Jingthing]

I didn't say Pattaya was dying or that Pattaya business was dying.

Referring specifically to foreign owned (non-Chinese) SMALL businesses and "stuff" that has happened to them being NOT NORMAL and contributing (ARGUABLY) to a higher rate of closures than normal.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[oxo1947]

I could tell you the real secret reason robblok.............but then I would have to kill you................

[JSixpack]

I didn't say Pattaya was dying or that Pattaya business was dying.

Referring specifically to foreign owned (non-Chinese) SMALL businesses and "stuff" that has happened to them being NOT NORMAL and contributing (ARGUABLY) to a higher rate of closures than normal.

For most of our members, foreign owned (non-Chinese) SMALL businesses are Pattaya--notably the beer bars, cheap hotels, and cheap restos. The rest is wallpaper. 'Course Thais own most of the go-gos, and we're constantly hearing how they're all dying, so hard to see discrimination against farangs there.

And if you ARGUE, then you need some concrete basis for doing so. You think you have some, but we've yet to hear what it is or confirmation. Confirmation here is suspect, however, given so much lying. I'm open to hearing more, however.