Koh Tao murders appeal reveals shocking new evidence suggesting unfair trial and wrongful conviction

[Khun Han]

It's just standard police procedure Crab. We'd all like to see the evidence, but we only get to do that if the police deem it to be in the interests of the case.

Of course, if corruption steps in on behalf of the accused, that evidence never sees the light of day. As has happened here.

Bul*lshit.

Nope. Fact.

[JLCrab]

It's just standard police procedure Crab. We'd all like to see the evidence, but we only get to do that if the police deem it to be in the interests of the case.

Of course, if corruption steps in on behalf of the accused, that evidence never sees the light of day. As has happened here.

Bul*lshit.

Nope. Fact.

No Bul=lshit because you have no idea what that evidence was or that it even existed in the first place. You said earlier that I am 'desperate' to discredit Panya. I don't have to. If he really had the evidence that the two big shots were guilty and went in front of the cameras without saying in any way what that evidence was and not anticipating the world would collapse around him, then he was an idiot. No safeguards for the evidence that you now say has disappeared.

I am not desperate about anything -- the B2 are now sitting on jail and hopefully, if they really know anything about who actually committed these crimes, they will say so before one of them has a fall in the shower and the other one accidentally sticks his finger in a light socket when changing a bulb.

[Khun Han]

The bul=lshit is on your part in your desperation to discredit Pol Gen Panya. He annouced that he had evidence that the two named suspects were definitely involved in the murders. It's standard procedure to retain such evidence unless it's in the interests of the case to release some or all of it. Panya was at the time the regional boss - a very senior policeman. As he is known to be from the 'red' side of the police, he would not be a party to the shenanigans of his 'yellow' boss, and would have expected to have been able to run the investigation as he saw fit. But his boss stepped in all changed all that. And all the evidence that linked the two suspects named by Panya was done away with and 'lost'.

In your desperation to discredit Panya, you paint a picture of a regional commander who is a loose cannon, and who just makes up serious allegations for the hell of it to state to the press. How absurd! Panya was highly respected as a police officer (in a force where that is a rarity), and has no 'previous' for the type of behaviour of which you so desperately accuse him.

Posters give away their real agenda when they try the type of nonsense Crab is trying.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. There are two guys sitting in jail right now whether they actually committed these crimes or not. If you think the kind of nonsense you post above is in any way going help them, I just hope they can find someone else to do so.

I know nothing of Panya other than that 23 SEP 2014 PBS interview which was a disaster as things turned out, as you say, the very next day. I didn't say he makes things up: I just said that the way he chose to go about things there is no way to prove that there ever was any evidence or not and I believe those that took over would say that there never was any evidence so how could evidence disappear.

As per that PBS interview: "(Panya) said that he also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation."

... which is what you say happened the very next day and that he was caught flat footed as he never anticipated such a thing happening because he was straight arrow cop.

You're the one who thinks things should be different -- I just try to figure out why things happened as they did.

[Khun Han]

The nonsense is from JLCrab, such as this that he posted earlier today and denied saying in his above post:

"Another explanation is that maybe he was bluffing and there really was no evidence or CCTV and he was taken off the case for being a loose cannon with a penchant for the cameras and publicity."

He will now try to wriggle out by saying he was posting the opinion of others or some such. But there are no quotes or links attached to the "loose cannon" post.

[TheLobster]

Let's not quote the clown: Of course things should be different, there is no credible evidence to justify the charges/sentence.

Swimming is a clear indication that you are guilty and have committed murder....? etc. Really !

Also there is a clear desire by the authorities to drag this case out as long as possible, is there a reason for that ? Of course there is and we all know it.

[JLCrab]

Bluffing is not lying -- maybe he wanted to get persons to say or do something if they believe he had evidence or more evidence than what he really had. And if the guy really did have damaging evidence, he should have made sure that that evidence was somehow secured before standing before the cameras and proffering murder charges against 2 of the most powerful persons on the island without in any way saying what that evidence was and not suspecting that such evidence could be somehow compromised or "twisted" which it turned out it was THE VERY NEXT DAY.

That to me is a loose cannon who doesn't tie down his cannon before shooting it off -- or in this case shooting off his mouth.

And you folks are getting real good at the ad hominem games and I'm not about to reply to them. But maybe this will help in your pointing out the debacle of injustice that has gone down. If you say it often enough maybe everything will change. Hit it 'Retha:

Chain chain chain

Chain of custody

Chain chain chay yay yay yay yay yay chain of custody

Ev'ry Custody chain has a weak link

And one of these mornings that

Cus-toe-dee chain is gonna break

But up until the day

I'm gonna take all I can take, oh hey

Chain chain chain

Chain of custody

Chain chain chay yay yay yay yay yay chain of custody

[seedy]

Flaming post and Quoted Replies Removed. Keep the Personal Attacks off this Forum

[Khun Han]

Once corruption had entered the case from above Panya, it didn't matter what evidence he had or where he had it. He was unexpectedly undermined, and the evidence he had was unuseable because his boss wanted the suspects Panya had nailed off the hook.

Panya, as the senior officer on the case, got things right until he was unexpectedly undermined by corruption.

[JLCrab]

... and he apparently never saw it coming.

[Khun Han]

Good cops don't. It's the bad cops who are prepared for such shizzle.

[JLCrab]

Once corruption had entered the case from above Panya, it didn't matter what evidence he had or where he had it.

<snip>

Ever hear of a back-up copy -- maybe mail it to your cousin in Milwaukee before you announce to the world that you've got evidence.

[JLCrab]

Good cops don't. It's the bad cops who are prepared for such shizzle.

Unexpectedly? From the 23 SEP 2014 PBS interview with\ Kuhn Panya:

(Panya) also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

That was the order of the day for maybe less than one day.

[Khun Han]

Which proves my point, in my post that you buchered to change it's meaning when quoting, that Panya was caught unawares. As the regional commander, he wasn't expecting the local mafia to be able to outflank him. An honest mistake on his part, but one easily made by honest cops. And in no way a reflection of the great job he'd done in nailing two of the island mafia murderers.

There is no shame in an honest cop being undermined by his corrupt boss.

[JLCrab]

Which proves my point, in my post that you buchered to change it's meaning when quoting, that Panya was caught unawares. As the regional commander, he wasn't expecting the local mafia to be able to outflank him. An honest mistake on his part, but one easily made by honest cops. And in no way a reflection of the great job he'd done in nailing two of the island mafia murderers.

There is no shame in an honest cop being undermined by his corrupt boss.

You wrote earlier in this topic -- in response to another poster's saying that the Supreme Court Justices who might hear the B2's Appeal case might be afraid of losing their careers if they vote the wrong way should they hear the B2's case -- that maybe the Justice's should be afraid of possibly losing more than that.

So if the Koh Tao family can instill fear in Supreme Court Justices sitting in Bangkok, why wouldn't Kuhn Panya anticipate that they might try to pull strings right on the island or Surat Thani Province once they are publicly charged with murder whether complicit in those murders or not and at least make some reasonable preparation in case such were to occur?

[Khun Han]

No, because he didn't realise the extent of their connections back then. He found out that extent within a few hours of nailing them though: they are untouchable.

Like I said, honest cops (especially ones as senior as Panya) don't expect to have rank pulled on them by criminals.

[JLCrab]

No, because he didn't realise the extent of their connections back then. He found out that extent within a few hours of nailing them though: they are untouchable.

Like I said, honest cops (especially ones as senior as Panya) don't expect to have rank pulled on them by criminals.

All he would've had to do was read ThaiVisa because everybody on here seemed to know the extent of their connections from day 1.

So honest cop though he may be, you are painting a picture of someone being totally incompetent in handling an investigation involving some of the most powerful members of the community in the murder of two British young persons right adjacent to the suspects own property.

I mean it sounds like the guy didn't do anything as simple as even backing up evidence from a hard drive and putting it is a safe place.

[Khun Han]

Panya would not have feared powerful members of a local criminal organisation. And, being an honest cop, he would not have expected that organisation to get away with such heinous murders. There is no shame or incompetence in having your invesigation being ruined by a corrupt boss.

If he has kept some unused evidences, they will be for a rainy day. I expect he has no interest in being a dead hero. And who can blame him?

[JLCrab]

Panya would not have feared powerful members of a local criminal organisation. And, being an honest cop, he would not have expected that organisation to get away with such heinous murders. There is no shame or incompetence in having your invesigation being ruined by a corrupt boss.

If he has kept some unused evidences, they will be for a rainy day. I expect he has no interest in being a dead hero. And who can blame him?

So he realizes now that, were he to release evidence that he could've kept in a safe place, that he could be a dead hero but didn't realize, when he announced back on SEP 23 2014 that he had evidence proving the guilt of members of a family known well before then as the local mafia, that he might have also been a dead hero if his corrupt bosses did not then step in to save his a--ss?

[Khun Han]

You're starting to get up to speed Crab (I wish!). Panya clearly didn't expect the murderous mafia family to receive the high-level support they received when he nailed them.

[JLCrab]

You're starting to get up to speed Crab (I wish!). Panya clearly didn't expect the murderous mafia family to receive the high-level support they received when he nailed them.

So now you're saying the corrupt higher officials maybe saved his life back then by booting him off the case because, if he could be a dead hero now just for releasing his back up hard drive if he had one, he certainly could've been a dead hero back then if he stayed on the case.

But the more that gets written about this guy, the worse he looks -- why not give him a break

[Khun Han]

No Crab, I'm not saying that. Re-read what I wrote (it's in plain enough English) and get back to me when you've comprehended it.

[Khun Han]

And the edit Crab's added is an ever more desperate attempt to discredit Panya because he named the killers Crab is doing his little internet bit to shield from justice.

[JLCrab]

Your very words paint a picture of a guy in way over his head. And every time you post that "how was he supposed to know?" you just make him look worse. The only reason you can say at this point that he had evidence is that he said that he had evidence. What evidence? With even a modicum of reasonable investigative procedure and a bit of savvy he could have changed that.

If he truly had the evidence, as you say, he totally blew it -- big time.

[Khun Han]

Panya did a good job until his work was sabotaged. You can say that he was incompetent as much as you want, but you're just really desperate to discredit him because he named the real murderers before his work has sabotaged.

You said that he made the allegations up, then denied you said it, then prevaricated about why you said it. So that one didn't work. And now you are trying to spin the fact that his boss sabotaged his work as incompetence on Panya's part. It's strange logic, but doesn't appear to be a barrier to your posts. Oh well! Takes all sorts.

[JLCrab]

He named two mafia figures without conveying the slightest implication as to what evidence he had. All I ever said was that the manner in which he presented the case would be the same as if he had no evidence and that one could believe that there never was any evidence and that is still the case. You are the one who said he could now be a dead hero if he released any heretofore unknown evidence -- I said, if that is the case, he could have been a dead hero just as likely back then -- just like the Supreme Court justices you have said might be in fear of more than their careers if they crossed the wrong persons.

But it's really all moot point. If there really was evidence it is now gone and if the evidence could so easily disappear then it wasn't properly handled with the anticipation that mafia figures MIGHT try to compromise any evidence. If that ain't incompetence, I don't know what is.

[Khun Han]

The leader of a police investigation uses his evidence in the ways that he deems appropriate. And Panya behaved absolutely correctly in retaining his evidence whilst naming two of the murderers. He doesn't use his evidence in the expectation that his investigation will be derailed by unexpected corruption from above. That's not logical, nor is suggesting that he should have done so.

Panya did a good job until he was stitched up by his boss.

[JLCrab]

Every time you write on here you just make this guy look worse as to how he blew the investigation and the prosecution -- give him a break. We're talking about the MAFIA here in a gruesome murder case -- not 2 high school kids caught shoplifting.

[Khun Han]

You're clutching at straws to discredit Panya because he named the murderers you want to do your little bit to help shield.

Your arguments to try to make him look incompetent are illogical and desperate. But I expect you have nothing else to work with. A worker and his tools and all that .

Every time you post about this you inadvertently highlight a major issue: Panya's good work being sabotaged by high-up corruption. Thank you for your co-operation.

[JLCrab]

Panya screwed up -- even if the police bosses hadn't turned on him, the MAFIA could have found ways to infiltrate the police and compromise the evidence. Nothing was done to secure the evidence or there would still be evidence. So now it is just that Panya said that they are guilty that you want to hang your hat on. Good for you

Since the B2 have been in jail there have been no more psychopathic bludgeoning murders on Koh Tao. Maybe that is because the real killers are on sabbatical. Maybe that is because the real killers are in jail. I'm sure the forensic criminal psychologists that populate this website have multiple explanations for that and good for them, too.