New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[nontabury]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

Amsterdam, The Crown Plaza having breakfast.

Ah! I was just wondering when I could expect to hear of your lynching in All Saints Square,Rotherham.

I take that as a direct threat. Moderator?

Now your being more childish than usual. Or is't the Gin + Tonics mixed with the Heinekin?

[Grouse]

For What ?

I have already voted to leave and I think the bookies odds are wrong ...

They follow the money not the majority .. Big money in the city has placed bets to stay whilst the majority have placed bets to leave ..

I hope and reckon that will be reflected in the result tomorrow .

What you think is just a made up guess. 'I think...I hope....I reckon...' Hopeless.

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

BTW using Churchill as a username is fine, but then using a picture of the great man is, IMHO, unreasonable. No doubt moderators will consider this?

[Grouse]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

Idiotic and nasty

When you made this post at 1500 hrs, where exactly were you?

Amsterdam, The Crown Plaza having breakfast.

Ah! I was just wondering when I could expect to hear of your lynching in All Saints Square,Rotherham.

I take that as a direct threat. Moderator?

Now your being more childish than usual. Or is't the Gin + Tonics mixed with the Heinekin?

I'm serious.

This sort of thing is unacceptable.

You may think it's funny, I don't.

[allanos]

The EU version does not specifically state a requirement for the UK to join the euro or identify a treaty that covers it. It also runs to 2025 and not 2020.

I am sorry but using the excuse of 'too little time' to back up what is a major claim is not a reasonable response particularly since you have made it clear this information that you allude to is on the ECB website.

I meant that you would not have enough time to research considering the referendum is tomorrow. I have been watching and reading this for years.

Correct, the EU one runs to 2025. Phase 4 of the ECB starts in 2020.

I am only providing points of reference, what you do with them is up 2 you.

The U.K. Will NOT lose its rebate in 2020

The U.K. Will NOT be compelled to join the Euro in 2020

Just Brexit BS

Not as a direct comment levelled at you, but one of the things I have noticed with the Remainian contingent is that they have been too focused and

analytical with what pertains to the EU as it is, and do not seem to want to open their eyes to what the future possibilities (probabilities?) may be with

regard to closer political and socio-economic integration.

After all, when Britain joined the EEC in 1973, the European Union was hardly on the radar. In the intervening years, look what has happened.

The President of the EU and certain leading lights of other nations, have made clear their desire for greater integration along a variety of fronts, including

an expanded Eurozone and Euro currency, yet the Remainians don't acknowledge it, possibly because Mr Cameron has returned with his supposed

set of "reforms", which include certain "opt-outs" such as "ever-closer union", and the warm, fuzzy feeling that the pound sterling is forever sacrosanct and

inviolable.

It brings to mind Neville Chamberlain's return from his meeting with Mr Hitler, waving a piece of paper and proclaiming "peace in our time".

Very little is written in stone. It does not need much foresight to know that the United Kingdom will very much become part and parcel of the EU/

Eurozone in the not-too-distant future. But, again, bafflingly for me, the Remainians, ordinarily extremely sensible people, cannot come to terms with it.

[Grouse]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

No-one knows.

But I would rather take my chances in a big wide world of potentially 7.5 Billion customers than be hog tied to a Union with potentially 500 Million customers, purely on the basis of trade.

We wont mention the hidden costs of EU membership, they must be kept under the carpet at all costs.

Remember, too, that the EU "market" of (oft-quoted) 508 million souls, includes the United Kingdom with, say, 62 million people.

Consequently, the net EU population (excluding Turkey's 75 million still to come) is closer to 450 million.

Still pedalling lies?

[SheungWan]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

You seem to be living in the past! Old Masters, and a battle which took place in 1815, are a long way from the Brave New World we live in, today.

You would say the events of 1914-18, and 1939 - 45, proved that we Europeans are all in it together? It's an interesting take on history!

It is only geography which keeps us close to Europe. The world we live in today bears no resemblance to what has gone before. The comments

in your post do not support any argument for the United Kingdom to remain tied to the European Union.

Vermeer is a favourite of mine.

If you add the number of EU states to the number of candidate members its almost equal to the number of Vermeer paintings in circulation.

[Grouse]

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)!

What has happened in the UK?

Immigration !!

The Netherlands and most of Europe have dealt with the same problem. Why can't we? I think our education system has much to answer for. Heard an interesting thing here: in Dutch schools, you can not move up unless you have accumulated enough hours. That would sort out UK skivers!

[allanos]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

You seem to be living in the past! Old Masters, and a battle which took place in 1815, are a long way from the Brave New World we live in, today.

You would say the events of 1914-18, and 1939 - 45, proved that we Europeans are all in it together? It's an interesting take on history!

It is only geography which keeps us close to Europe. The world we live in today bears no resemblance to what has gone before. The comments

in your post do not support any argument for the United Kingdom to remain tied to the European Union.

Vermeer is a favourite of mine.

If you add the number of EU states to the number of candidate members its almost equal to the number of Vermeer paintings in circulation.

Is this synchronicity at work?

Is this also a reason to vote to Remain in the EU? (Probably one of the more valid reasons I can think of)!

[Grouse]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

You seem to be living in the past! Old Masters, and a battle which took place in 1815, are a long way from the Brave New World we live in, today.

You would say the events of 1914-18, and 1939 - 45, proved that we Europeans are all in it together? It's an interesting take on history!

It is only geography which keeps us close to Europe. The world we live in today bears no resemblance to what has gone before. The comments

in your post do not support any argument for the United Kingdom to remain tied to the European Union.

Vermeer is a favourite of mine.

Glad you like Vermeer!

The lessons to be learned from 1914 and 1938 ( not an error) is that we need to understand history and work together

I celebrate the peace we have had for the last 65 years ?

[nontabury]

For What ?

I have already voted to leave and I think the bookies odds are wrong ...

They follow the money not the majority .. Big money in the city has placed bets to stay whilst the majority have placed bets to leave ..

I hope and reckon that will be reflected in the result tomorrow .

What you think is just a made up guess. 'I think...I hope....I reckon...' Hopeless.

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

BTW using Churchill as a username is fine, but then using a picture of the great man is, IMHO, unreasonable. No doubt moderators will consider this?

:::::::;:;;;:::: :::::::;;;;;

The moderators need to be working full time on your behalf. But to make you happy, here is a quote from that great man, whom I assume must now be turning in his grave.

Edited June 22, 2016 by nontabury

[allanos]

Enjoying a layover in Amsterdam prior to returning to UK tomorrow to vote

Went to the Rijks Museum to soak up some culture (Rembrandt and Vermeer of course!)

A couple of points occurred while looking at grand masters

1) While looking at Waterloo, it came home to me that Wellington would never have defeated Napoleon without help from the Dutch army and crucially the Prussians (Germans for the poorly educated)

2) The treaty ending the 80 year war between the Dutch and the Spanish was signed at Munster (Germany)

In short, its obvious that we Europeans are in this together!

Incidentally, I had forgotten what a civilised place The Netherlands is! Clean, no litter and no chavs (as far as I could see)! What has happened in the UK? The Dutch seem to be handling things much better.......

I noted that at Schipol, immigration is automated. Again, our poor "border force" suffer poor investment! We should be automatically monitoring ALL departures and arrivals. How hard can it be? Its not an EU problem, its a British Government problem!

You seem to be living in the past! Old Masters, and a battle which took place in 1815, are a long way from the Brave New World we live in, today.

You would say the events of 1914-18, and 1939 - 45, proved that we Europeans are all in it together? It's an interesting take on history!

It is only geography which keeps us close to Europe. The world we live in today bears no resemblance to what has gone before. The comments

in your post do not support any argument for the United Kingdom to remain tied to the European Union.

Vermeer is a favourite of mine.

Glad you like Vermeer!

The lessons to be learned from 1914 and 1938 ( not an error) is that we need to understand history and work together

I celebrate the peace we have had for the last 65 years ?

Absolutely, and the whole of the United Kingdom would agree with you.

But co-operating, and working together, is a very different animal to what we have now, and, potentially, what is to come in future.

[JB300]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

If they aren't registered in the UK, they'll be paying 150% of the costs to use the NHS.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Presumably they'd be "resuming settled residence" in the UK so would be eligible for free NHS from the moment they arrive

::::::::::::: ::::::::::

Not so,I think they have to be back in the UK for six months, and also to prove they have actually cut all links with the country they have just left.Maybe someone can confirm if this is correct.

Probably one for a different thread but it's all about being assessed as Ordinary Resident which you can do by cutting ties with the country you were living in & showing an intent to stay long term in the UK (e.g. owning property that's available for you to live in or proof of a Long term rental agreements) which you can pre-arrange before returning.

Google is your friend...

[Johnyo]

Well boys and girls the end of this divisive campaign is nearly over. Let's hope that the losers are magnanimous in defeat and respect the wishes of democracy and that the winners don't gloat too much.

[Grouse]

The most recent edition of The Economist has a FIRST CLASS essay on the history of the EU. Those genuinely interested in this debate SHOULD read it. It is none partisan and discusses all the angles. 300 THB

[Jip99]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

If they aren't registered in the UK, they'll be paying 150% of the costs to use the NHS.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Presumably they'd be "resuming settled residence" in the UK so would be eligible for free NHS from the moment they arrive

::::::::::::: ::::::::::

Not so,I think they have to be back in the UK for six months, and also to prove they have actually cut all links with the country they have just left.Maybe someone can confirm if this is correct.

Probably one for a different thread but it's all about being assessed as Ordinary Resident which you can do by cutting ties with the country you were living in & showing an intent to stay long term in the UK (e.g. owning property that's available for you to live in or proof of a Long term rental agreements) which you can pre-arrange before returning.

Google is your friend...

Immediately eligible.

Can't give you the link to thread that covered this subject but I can confirm that the NHS (GOV.UK ?) website is quite clear about it.

[nontabury]

The most recent edition of The Economist has a FIRST CLASS essay on the history of the EU. Those genuinely interested in this debate SHOULD read it. It is none partisan and discusses all the angles. 300 THB

That's a bit expensive. How many rolls do you get for that?

[Grouse]

A Dutch landlord just said:

"The trouble with the English is that they have too many very rich and too many very poor and too little middle class. Just the same as USA"

How true is that!!!!

[Histavia]

For What ?

I have already voted to leave and I think the bookies odds are wrong ...

They follow the money not the majority .. Big money in the city has placed bets to stay whilst the majority have placed bets to leave ..

I hope and reckon that will be reflected in the result tomorrow .

What you think is just a made up guess. 'I think...I hope....I reckon...' Hopeless.

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

BTW using Churchill as a username is fine, but then using a picture of the great man is, IMHO, unreasonable. No doubt moderators will consider this?

:::::::;:;;;:::: :::::::;;;;;

The moderators need to be working full time on your behalf. But to make you happy, here is a quote from that great man, whom I assume must now be turning in his grave.

you might want to check your quotes....

“We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

The last sentence was uttered 14 years after the first 3.......

The first 3 were made in the 1930s.

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

Remember Churchill was a supporter of apartheid and wanted to use te army to break up the general strike....originally a Whig he moved to the Tories and after WW2 was immediately booted out by the British electorate

Edited June 22, 2016 by Histavia

[WhamBam]

The Sunday Times, The sunday Telegraph and tghe Daily Mail all backing Brexit.

These are the most read newspapers in England. I hope the readers take note

The Sun and sunday Sun also backing BREXIT

Labour rag the Daily Mirror is for Vote remain.

Edited June 22, 2016 by WhamBam

[Histavia]

For What ?

I have already voted to leave and I think the bookies odds are wrong ...

They follow the money not the majority .. Big money in the city has placed bets to stay whilst the majority have placed bets to leave ..

I hope and reckon that will be reflected in the result tomorrow .

What you think is just a made up guess. 'I think...I hope....I reckon...' Hopeless.

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

BTW using Churchill as a username is fine, but then using a picture of the great man is, IMHO, unreasonable. No doubt moderators will consider this?

:::::::;:;;;:::: :::::::;;;;;

The moderators need to be working full time on your behalf. But to make you happy, here is a quote from that great man, whom I assume must now be turning in his grave.

you might want to check your quotes....

“We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

The last sentence was uttered 14 years after the first 3.......

The first 3 were made in the 1930s.

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

Remember Churchill was a supporter of apartheid and wanted to use te army to break up the general strike....originally a Whig he moved to the Tories and after WW2 was immediately booted out by the British electorate.

He was also a FOUNDER of the European Union.

http://eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2013/11/10/winston-churchill-a-founder-of-the-european-union/

[Jip99]

The most recent edition of The Economist has a FIRST CLASS essay on the history of the EU. Those genuinely interested in this debate SHOULD read it. It is none partisan and discusses all the angles. 300 THB

Here you go. I do like the way they are upfront about not being impartial - fair comment.

EconomistBrexitBriefs16.pdf

[Histavia]

Having watched the Brexiteers with increasing dismay, one thing seems to stand out - the kind if people thay attract - there is hardly a single person in the brexit campaign I wouldn't crooss the road to avoid.

they just seem to bbe a bunch of self-serving ultra-right hardliners....how anyone could fall for they stuff used to be beyond me----now I understand how ditators come to power..

any hoo - here's a man I really respect....

Ben Goldacre.

RIGHT.

I tried to ignore the EU referendum but idiots blaming foreigners, for problems we created, made me too cross.

Here are my reasons for voting Remain.

1. A smaller democracy will not be “more representative”.
The UK government is no more under your control than the EU. Diluting your vote one in 65m or one in 500m amounts to the same thing: no control. You couldn’t get political agreement from the people in one family, one pub, or one bus. You can’t “vote them out”, you’ve never done that, stop pretending you can do it in the future. Politics is about compromise: terrible, soul-destroying, mature compromise with other people, most of whom are awful. Your local council don’t represent your views and values any better than your MEP.

2. Immigration is just going to happen.
In or out of the EU, there will be lots, and lots of immigration: bad luck if you don’t like that. We’re perfectly able to control non-EU immigration, right now, and yet no government ever does. They never will. This is not the fault of the EU, it’s more complicated than that. Deal with it. Immigration will never stop.

3. “Straining” schools, waiting lists, and hospitals are your fault.
This is not the fault of the EU. It’s your fault. It’s happened slowly. The UK has failed to build houses, failed to train hospital staff, failed to invest in the NHS, failed to build schools. Your country. Your UK. Your government. Your fault. Nobody else. The NHS is staffed by immigrants, they keep it running, they will save your life and build your house. Don’t try to blame them for things that are your fault.

4. The EU is a good shot at preserving peace.
Remember that news story about the British generals who think we should leave the EU because NATO preserves peace, not the EU? These are bad generals who only know about guns. Russia right now is an odd, aggressive country. But they didn’t show up at the Ukrainian border with tanks, out of the blue: they manufactured a social and economic pretext before they rolled in. A strong EU makes this kind of pretext harder to contrive. You want to be good close friends with all your neighbours, and their neighbours, as far as the eye can see. That’s how you hold a line that preserves peace: by sharing friendship, sharing trade, and sharing grumbles about crap admin in Brussels. You do not preserve peace by buying and using weapons.

5. Brexit use language that’s targeted at losers.
The Brexit campaign talk about “taking control”, about “building an optimistic future” for yourself. These are things you say to losers: to people who feel they have no control, or a gloomy future. It’s the language of crap self-help books in airport bookshops. You are better than that.

6. Countries come and go.
Right now, people talk about Eastern Europeans like they’re biologically destined to be parasites, because their countries are poorer, and some of their citizens travel for work. That could change, really fast. Polish people are not a biologically inferior race: they lived under communism for four decades, and now they’re catching up. Poland has the fastest growing economy in Europe (faster than Central Europe, faster than the EU-15). Warsaw is full of skyscrapers. Be nice. Make friends now. Cement those ties to a large, fast growing European economy with a rich cultural history.

7. Brexit will hurt the economy.
This means your children and neighbours. Stop pretending you don’t care. Just vote remain. It’s boring, there’s nothing awesome about it, but sometimes you have to take a break from useful productive work to stop idiots breaking things.

Ben Goldacre

[Histavia]

BTW - all you military experts - and Nato afficianados...

Nato and US defence chiefs issue security warnings over Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/nato-chief-brexit-warning-white-house-david-cameron

Edited June 22, 2016 by Histavia

[Histavia]

I would have thought it was fairly obvious to anyone looking in on this debate that from almost any angle it is quite clear that whatever argument the Brexiteers put forward it is in reality based on a generally xenophobic outlook on the world.....the idea we are being ruled by "foreigners" (as if we aren't in there too0 and the idea that UK is being "swamped" by "immigrants" - yet they fail to realise who these groups of people actually are and what they do FOR the economy.

however, there is of course no argument against a Brexiteer - there is no argument; it's just pigeon chess based on a murky concept of nationalism and xenophobia.

Lets just hope they forget to vote this Friday (24th).

[Thaiwine]

The EU version does not specifically state a requirement for the UK to join the euro or identify a treaty that covers it. It also runs to 2025 and not 2020.

I am sorry but using the excuse of 'too little time' to back up what is a major claim is not a reasonable response particularly since you have made it clear this information that you allude to is on the ECB website.

I meant that you would not have enough time to research considering the referendum is tomorrow. I have been watching and reading this for years.

Correct, the EU one runs to 2025. Phase 4 of the ECB starts in 2020.

I am only providing points of reference, what you do with them is up 2 you.

The U.K. Will NOT lose its rebate in 2020

The U.K. Will NOT be compelled to join the Euro in 2020

Just Brexit BS

Not as a direct comment levelled at you, but one of the things I have noticed with the Remainian contingent is that they have been too focused and

analytical with what pertains to the EU as it is, and do not seem to want to open their eyes to what the future possibilities (probabilities?) may be with

regard to closer political and socio-economic integration.

After all, when Britain joined the EEC in 1973, the European Union was hardly on the radar. In the intervening years, look what has happened.

The President of the EU and certain leading lights of other nations, have made clear their desire for greater integration along a variety of fronts, including

an expanded Eurozone and Euro currency, yet the Remainians don't acknowledge it, possibly because Mr Cameron has returned with his supposed

set of "reforms", which include certain "opt-outs" such as "ever-closer union", and the warm, fuzzy feeling that the pound sterling is forever sacrosanct and

inviolable.

It brings to mind Neville Chamberlain's return from his meeting with Mr Hitler, waving a piece of paper and proclaiming "peace in our time".

Very little is written in stone. It does not need much foresight to know that the United Kingdom will very much become part and parcel of the EU/

Eurozone in the not-too-distant future. But, again, bafflingly for me, the Remainians, ordinarily extremely sensible people, cannot come to terms with it.

Just watching Dan Hannan on what happens if we remain,

[teatree]

Vote leave has a slight lead in yet another twist to Brexit.

This is going down to the wire.

The Leave campaign has taken the lead by a single percentage point in the final poll by the Opinium firm to be released before the EU referendum. Opinium, which was the most accurate pollster at the 2015 general election, said the race was "too close to call" on account of the survey. The result represents a gain of one point for Leave, who are up to 45 per cent. Remain were on 44 per cent in the survey.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-live-latest-poll-news-brexit-results-leave-remain-when-date-vote-odds-uk-britain-a7094741.html

[Thaiwine]

Turkey starts negotiations to join the EU on June the 30th

[Histavia]

this seems to encapsulate the national split.....

5. Brexit use language that’s targeted at losers.

The Brexit campaign talk about “taking control”, about “building an optimistic future” for yourself. These are things you say to losers: to people who feel they have no control, or a gloomy future. It’s the language of crap self-help books in airport bookshops. You are better than that.

[Histavia]

Brexiteers confused on sovereignty - which ISN"T democracy either.....

[Histavia]

THe entire Brit motor industry would prefer to "REMAIN" - yet the Brexiteers continue to fly in the face of the facts.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-nissan-to-take-legal-action-against-vote-leave-campaign-over-leaflet-a7091556.html