Cost Of Condo Management

[Beng]

I have 2 questions to all condo owners here in Chiang Mai, regarding the cost of the property management.

1. How much is the monthly management cost in your condo, for the manager, the housekeeper (cleaner), general maintenance

(look after the swimming pool, change light bulps, etc.) and garden care ?

In my condo ( 6 floors and 78 units), we pay 30K/month for the above service.

2. Are you happy with your management ? ... if so, recommendations are appreciated.

Thanks for your input.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Beng

[theguyfromanotherforum]

What?

[namatjira]

Beng, to clarify matters somewhat.....how much for your condo per month..?

[JB300]

When I first read the OP, I read it as they were paying 30k pm & thought What!!!

But I'm guessing it's 30k split across 78units (approx 385 THB per unit).

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Most pay by the SM...mine is 30 per month...either they do a good job or they don't, that actual amount they spend is out of your control, as you can be assured of one thing...they don't care what the foreigner thinks or any great ideas for improvement he may have. The ones where it is only 2-300 per month, per unit, seem to be falling down, and need millions in roof/pool/common area repair.

[JB300]

Most pay by the SM...mine is 30 per month...either they do a good job or they don't, that actual amount they spend is out of your control, as you can be assured of one thing...they don't care what the foreigner thinks or any great ideas for improvement he may have. The ones where it is only 2-300 per month, per unit, seem to be falling down, and need millions in roof/pool/common area repair.

So if you stay in a 100 sqm condo, you would pay 3000 per month?

Edited: apologies I was thinking in sqf (I am British [emoji4]) so was thinking you were in a 1000 sm condo paying 30k in maintenance

Edited June 3, 2016 by JB300

[KhonKaenKowboy]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

[northernjohn]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

So in a unit with 50 square meters you would be paying 2,000 to 2,250 baht per month in addition to the cost of the Condo?

[RBOP]

My condo fees are 35baht/sq.m/month. Very good upkeep.

[RBOP]

My other condo fee is 25 baht/sq.m/month. Very poor upkeep.

[12DrinkMore]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

On the face of it a good idea.

But what happens if say 80% decide to opt out of a facility? This would surely mean the other 20% would be paying for the facility. So a few more might opt out due to the increased charges. And so on until, for example, the pool never gets maintained.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

On the face of it a good idea.

But what happens if say 80% decide to opt out of a facility? This would surely mean the other 20% would be paying for the facility. So a few more might opt out due to the increased charges. And so on until, for example, the pool never gets maintained.

What nonsense. I am about to see a condo today where some units come with a private elevator. The condo fees on these units are about 60% higher than the ones without private elevator which makes sense. But opting out of the common areas? Man, every time I decide on a purchase here I get reminded how poorly Thai condos are managed.

[kanook]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

On the face of it a good idea.

But what happens if say 80% decide to opt out of a facility? This would surely mean the other 20% would be paying for the facility. So a few more might opt out due to the increased charges. And so on until, for example, the pool never gets maintained.

Not surprising when you analyze it, so many units are bought for investment or to park money and many units are not rented out at all. The large condo complex next to Central Festival has a large % of unoccupied units. If a la carte became the norm, I could see buyers that park their money opting out of everything and basically screw owner residents in the long run.

Edited June 4, 2016 by kanook

[captainhornblower]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

On the face of it a good idea.

But what happens if say 80% decide to opt out of a facility? This would surely mean the other 20% would be paying for the facility. So a few more might opt out due to the increased charges. And so on until, for example, the pool never gets maintained.

Totally agree with 12DM that this could be a recipe for bankruptcy of the Operating authority. Then where would that leave the Condominium generally?

[Eneukman]

880 rooms - 9400 baht per year flat charge (in Pattaya), which for me works out at about 23 baht per square metre per month.

However, many owners are dissatisfied with the management company. That won't change unless we get a strong committee at the next AGM in 5 or 7 months.

Alan

Edited June 4, 2016 by Eneukman

[newnative]

I own condos at 2 large complexes in Pattaya--both have over 1000 units and roughly equal amenities. I pay 20 baht a sqm at one complex and 45 baht a sqm at the other​. The complex costing 20 baht/sqm is providing excellent service, good maintenance, and is maintaining a very healthy reserve fund--for less than half the cost of the other one. Seems like maintenance fees are all over the board.

[bangkapi]

My 60sq meter condo in Jomtien is still 10 baht/sqm/mo

7200 baht a year. I can't complain.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

correct...and it seems like the newer ones are running more like 40-45 psm. If it is brand new, they may ask for a year in advance and a one time payment to start the reserve funds. The best thing I've seen them do is in BKK, some buildings have everything on an ala carte basis....you can even opt out of the elevator....makes the second floor look attractive...and of course you can opt out of gym and pool too. It's all programmed onto the thumbprint scanner or your keycard.

On the face of it a good idea.

But what happens if say 80% decide to opt out of a facility? This would surely mean the other 20% would be paying for the facility. So a few more might opt out due to the increased charges. And so on until, for example, the pool never gets maintained.

Totally agree with 12DM that this could be a recipe for bankruptcy of the Operating authority. Then where would that leave the Condominium generally?

Hopefully, the fees would be balanced so the opt out part would be the cost of marginal usage, but the basic expenses would be covered by everyone. You should see some oft these HOAs that own golf courses...seems like a great idea but many golf courses lose money....lots of liabilities, too. I think the best model for a fitness center is to have a place in the common area, then find an operator, who will actually run it like a business. Thais and swimmng pools don't seem to work very well, I'm glad we don't have one, because a bad one is a lot worse thannone at all, and I can get a yearly pass at the Uni for 300, +30 per visit. I've seen some great older buildings with a fee close to 20 and they were excellent..much less than that, and there is lots of deferred maintenance. Ours was way low, then boosted to 30, but much of that was for deferred maintenance. Could have been 20 if it had been managed better all along. Some HOAs never catch up from construction defects....

[Beng]

This is way off topic as usual. The initial question was probably misunderstood.

The OP is not about how much you pay per sqm/month or year (common fee), but what does the management company charge for their service per month (excluding water, electricity, security, insurance, etc.).

Most of you do maybe not know, as you've never checked.

Anyways, the ones of you who do know, please share.

[jonwilly]

B 7,740/ year.

When they decode to collect.

My charge is leveled in April and this year no bill.

john

Sometimes two years running no charge. Must depend on what they have in the kitty.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

This is way off topic as usual. The initial question was probably misunderstood.

The OP is not about how much you pay per sqm/month or year (common fee), but what does the management company charge for their service per month (excluding water, electricity, security, insurance, etc.).

Most of you do maybe not know, as you've never checked.

Anyways, the ones of you who do know, please share.

In most cases there is not a management company, but a Juristic Person, who is on a fairly modest salary, but may get a few good benefits. However, some of the larger developers, like in BKK, may bring in more of a turn-key type management company, then turn it over to an elected board of homeowners (not farang) and a JP. There isn't much of a mark-up at all, but there always seems to be some ways for the JP to make extra cash by managing units for owners, and getting commissions on rentals and resales.

[cyberfarang]

This is way off topic as usual. The initial question was probably misunderstood.

The OP is not about how much you pay per sqm/month or year (common fee), but what does the management company charge for their service per month (excluding water, electricity, security, insurance, etc.).

Most of you do maybe not know, as you've never checked.

Anyways, the ones of you who do know, please share.

What you`re asking is like questioning, how long is a piece of string?

I take it you mean administration fees and these are going to vary greatly between different management companies according to how many residents and units the condo estates contain and the amount of work involved.

Every management company should hold a memorandum of association that outlines the rules and duties of your management company and details of the directors, you should be able to request a copy if you don`t already have one including a copy of the annual audited accounts that show how much everyone is getting paid and where the money is going. The management company should also hold annual general meetings where every resident can attend and these questions can be asked.

Another way of keeping on top of things is to form a residents association that is basically a group of residents which deal with residents inquiries and complaints, a sort of go between the management company and the residents. They become a watchdog for the estate and keep the management company on it`s toes. The bottom line is, you are going to have to do some leg work and gather this information from the MC yourself if you want to find out all that`s involved that is relevant to you.

[Beng]

This is way off topic as usual. The initial question was probably misunderstood.

The OP is not about how much you pay per sqm/month or year (common fee), but what does the management company charge for their service per month (excluding water, electricity, security, insurance, etc.).

Most of you do maybe not know, as you've never checked.

Anyways, the ones of you who do know, please share.

In most cases there is not a management company, but a Juristic Person, who is on a fairly modest salary, but may get a few good benefits. However, some of the larger developers, like in BKK, may bring in more of a turn-key type management company, then turn it over to an elected board of homeowners (not farang) and a JP. There isn't much of a mark-up at all, but there always seems to be some ways for the JP to make extra cash by managing units for owners, and getting commissions on rentals and resales.

The management company is a juristic person. They employ the manager, who works at the condo office and handles all issues like maintenance, payments, etc.

According to section 37 of the condominium act, the condo board consists of 3 to 9 persons, who will make all relevant decisions and are supervising the manager.

Section 37/1 states who can become a board member. Farangs are not excluded, as I am a board member in our condo.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Apparently, CM Immigration disagrees with that interpretation at a big meeting at Riverside a few years ago. Most of the time, budget data is posted on the wall of the lobby.

[Beng]

My 60sq meter condo in Jomtien is still 10 baht/sqm/mo

7200 baht a year. I can't complain.

Very cheap indeed. Can u post a picture of the building please ?

[northernjohn]

This is way off topic as usual. The initial question was probably misunderstood.

The OP is not about how much you pay per sqm/month or year (common fee), but what does the management company charge for their service per month (excluding water, electricity, security, insurance, etc.).

Most of you do maybe not know, as you've never checked.

Anyways, the ones of you who do know, please share.

What you`re asking is like questioning, how long is a piece of string?

I take it you mean administration fees and these are going to vary greatly between different management companies according to how many residents and units the condo estates contain and the amount of work involved.

Every management company should hold a memorandum of association that outlines the rules and duties of your management company and details of the directors, you should be able to request a copy if you don`t already have one including a copy of the annual audited accounts that show how much everyone is getting paid and where the money is going. The management company should also hold annual general meetings where every resident can attend and these questions can be asked.

Another way of keeping on top of things is to form a residents association that is basically a group of residents which deal with residents inquiries and complaints, a sort of go between the management company and the residents. They become a watchdog for the estate and keep the management company on it`s toes. The bottom line is, you are going to have to do some leg work and gather this information from the MC yourself if you want to find out all that`s involved that is relevant to you.

The whole issue is like asking how long is a piece of string.

So far we have had 10 baht a sq. meter to 50 baht a sq. meter. I asked a friend who owns two condos in a nice building. No pool what they pay and I was told 15 baht a sq meter. One is not rented out and they are not even looking for renters considering selling it instead. 1,500 baht a year is not an issue to them descent renters are. I see on another thread where the owners have got together and fired the manager and are hiring a consultant to work with the home owners council. they did not mention the price but gave several names of condos he had helped get organized properly.

[KittenKong]

How much is the monthly management cost in your condo, for the manager, the housekeeper (cleaner), general maintenance

(look after the swimming pool, change light bulps, etc.) and garden care ?

In my condo ( 6 floors and 78 units), we pay 30K/month for the above service.

I know that Chiang Mai is cheaper than Pattaya, but I cant believe that you get a manager, a housekeeper, maintenance, pool care and garden care for just 30kB/month. What about your accounts, and other management costs?

We pay nearly 30kB/month just for our building manager (who, admittedly, is a pea-brained tit who isn't worth half that). All other management company, staff and subcontractor costs are on top. We are vastly overstaffed and if I had 10B for every time I have seen an employee sitting around doing nothing I could buy the entire building. Yet there are a thousand jobs that need doing.

Mind you, our committee is useless. If someone told me they take kickbacks from management I would not be surprised. If I was told that management take kickbacks from staff in return for these overpaid positions I would not be surprised either. Thai property management seems to be a choice between incompetence and dishonesty, or both.

[northernjohn]

Apparently, CM Immigration disagrees with that interpretation at a big meeting at Riverside a few years ago. Most of the time, budget data is posted on the wall of the lobby.

What has immigration to do with it. that Riverside was a cluster <deleted>-k of different opinions and lasted quite a while before they got any thing settled. I presume it is alright now as we have not heard from them lately. From what I could see sitting on the out side looking in there is liable to have been any thing said there. It was a big power struggle.

[KittenKong]

Every management company should hold a memorandum of association that outlines the rules and duties of your management company and details of the directors, you should be able to request a copy if you don`t already have one including a copy of the annual audited accounts that show how much everyone is getting paid and where the money is going. The management company should also hold annual general meetings where every resident can attend and these questions can be asked.

Another way of keeping on top of things is to form a residents association that is basically a group of residents which deal with residents inquiries and complaints, a sort of go between the management company and the residents. They become a watchdog for the estate and keep the management company on it`s toes. The bottom line is, you are going to have to do some leg work and gather this information from the MC yourself if you want to find out all that`s involved that is relevant to you.

An elected committee of co-owners is obligatory so a residents association should be largely pointless (assuming the committee is any good). I see it as part of the committee's job to receive co-owner complaints especially if these are about management or about things that management has been unable to resolve.

It is the job of the Juristic Person Manager (JPM, also elected) and the committee chairman to arrange an AGM every year, and to ensure that accounts are audited and published, and to abide by the building regs. There is NO requirement to have a management company, nor is the management company necessarily the JPM (though it often is).

The JPM holds all the real power in a building so the choice of this person is very important. Are there any honest ones in Thailand? Not that I know of.

Edited June 5, 2016 by KittenKong

[newnative]

Normally I would probably agree that a residents association shouldn't be necessary since there is the condo board committee but I can think of several complexes where the condo committee is pretty much in the control of the developer--who may have unsold units and can manhandle the board. With the exception of the annual meeting, in several condos I owned the owners were definitely not welcome at the condo board meetings. Plus, in many cases with new complexes the developer has a management company and a juristic person already in place before the first annual general meeting is held--and once they are in place it can be difficult to make a change because they are already dug in and can control things--especially with a weak board. With many complexes having absentee and part-time owners it's often hard to get the owners organized to have enough votes to make any changes. A residents association, even a small one, might at least help the residents be heard more than just individual owners trying to effect change on their own.