Thai-Cambodian Flame War Erupts Over Traditional Dance. Both Are Wrong.

[webfact]

Thai-Cambodian Flame War Erupts Over Traditional Dance. Both Are Wrong.
By Teeranai Charuvastra
Staff Reporter


Photo posted by official Facebook page of Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen.

BANGKOK — In a drama of epic proportions, Thailand and Cambodia are feuding once again after simultaneously claiming ownership of the traditional elaborate masked dance known as Khon in Thailand and Khol in Cambodia.

It started June 3 when the Cambodian Ministry of Culture and Fine Arts asked UNESCO, the cultural arm of the United Nations, to recognize its Khol as an “intangible cultural heritage,” something that Thailand has talked about doing for years. A red-hot flame war soon broke out between the two nations on social media.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1465284074


-- Khaosod English 2016-06-07

[sjjmmi]

now now kids play together now

[gandalf12]

Who really cares who was the first? They both need to grow up, there are more important things to take care of in both countries

[arithai12]

Who really cares who was the first? They both need to grow up, there are more important things to take care of in both countries

I suspect that "there are more important things" is exactly the reason why they quarrel over such trivial ones.

[BigBadGeordie]

Well, thanks Vic and Bob

[jaltsc]

"In a drama of epic proportions, Thailand and Cambodia are feuding once again after simultaneously claiming ownership of the traditional elaborate masked dance known as Khon in Thailand and Khol in Cambodia."

What's next between these two infantile countries..."My daddy can beat up your daddy"?

And they wonder why western and developed nations in Asia don't take them seriously.

Edited June 7, 2016 by jaltsc

[gandalf12]

"In a drama of epic proportions, Thailand and Cambodia are feuding once again after simultaneously claiming ownership of the traditional elaborate masked dance known as Khon in Thailand and Khol in Cambodia."

What's next between these two infantile countries..."My daddy can beat up your daddy"?

And they wonder why western and developed nations in Asia don't take them seriously.

I doubt if Thailand would be a fair match against Cambodia

[Ceruhe]

something that Thailand has talked about doing for years

Well, there lies the issue, duh! Thailand likes to talk about things but doesn't follow through doing things

I'll die laughing if UNESCO comes with a formulation that goes along the lines of "Khon is Thai, Khol is Cambodian, same same but different ka, everybody wins their own thing!" and everyone is gonna be satisfied.

If it wouldn't have been for that ridiculous over the top kitch gold fancy suit, I would've leaned toward japan, soley based on that headgear. That headgear (the demon face at least, not the sad candle on top) alone I have seen in japanese references plenty of times, not so much so far living in thailand for me though.

Yea well whatever. Nobody is going to care beyond these 2 countries.

[Prbkk]

In its pure and original form khon dancing= endless hours of excruciating boredom. Not worth a war. Be grateful if you've been spared all but the short , jazzed-up tourist version

[skildpadden]

No matter who "owns", it is still super boring to watch, Luckily you can sneak in your phone and play Candy Crush.

[dru2]

Khol originated at the royal court of Cambodia before the Thais began their migration south to Siam.

Khol and Khon are the same word, but in Thai 'l' is pronounced 'n' at the end of a word - as in Ubol / Ubon.

During the late 1970s the Khmer Rouge made a concerted attempt to wipe out the Cambodian Royal Ballet completely, killing just about every dancer and banning the cultural activity.

Khing Sihanouk's daughter Princess Bopha Devi was a leading ballerina who was not killed as she was in Paris. After the Khmer Rouge defeat, she returned to Phnom Penh and painstakingly built up a new Cambodian Royal Ballet corps.

The Thais assisted honourably in this endeavour, providing teachers and expert dancers to help Bopha Devi successfully re-establish Cambodian / Thai classical dance in Cambodia.

So - both sides have taught each other down the centuries, with the Cambodians originally giving the dance to the Thais, and the Thais helping to give it back to Cambodia after the defeat of Pol Pot (who spent four of his youthful years being brought up at the Cambodian Royal Ballet by a relative).

So no need to bicker - it belongs equally to both closely-related national traditions, as well as to the Lao. Nobody should try to claim exclusivity.

[CantSpell]

In a drama of epic proportion....

They should fight for real things like: "I can do slave labor better than you"

[Some One Else]

there's a similar thing going on over Muay Thai

aka Khun Khmer, depends on where you are

[Winniedapu]

Who really cares who was the first? They both need to grow up, there are more important things to take care of in both countries

I suspect that "there are more important things" is exactly the reason why they quarrel over such trivial ones.

And you're right. When the mind cannot cope with big things, it focuses on the small things - often to the exclusion of life-related stuff, It's one of the indicators of a stress breakdown.

W

[taichiplanet]

what's to argue; Thais invented everything.

[gandalf12]

what's to argue; Thais invented everything.

What you say is true I can't deny it

[thai3]

God i'd have to be well away on something to stand sitting through one of those things again, i don't think anyone actually enjoys them, they just pretend to

[Winniedapu]

God i'd have to be well away on something to stand sitting through one of those things again, i don't think anyone actually enjoys them, they just pretend to

It's the patriotic thing to do. An insult to himself not to.

W

[Winniedapu]

there's a similar thing going on over Muay Thai

aka Khun Khmer, depends on where you are

Jesus, they're fighting over Muay Thai?

Have you *seen* Muay Thai? Let the Cambodians have it and good luck to them.

A decent boxer would tear them apart.

W

[chainarong]

I guess it is what side of the border you're on who takes the lead in this dance , ...............................

[Chicog]

It's just petulant Thailand STILL seething over losing Preah Vihear.

They should grow up!

[tominbkk]

Nobody cares.

[baboon]

In its pure and original form khon dancing= endless hours of excruciating boredom. Not worth a war. Be grateful if you've been spared all but the short , jazzed-up tourist version

A 'like' from me and two thumbs up from Mrs. Baboon who is firmly in the 'Who gives a crap, let them have it. They are more than welcome to it' camp...

[webfact]

PM is not worried with Cambodia’s plan to list “Khon” dance in Unesco’s list of intangible cultural heritage



BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha said Tuesday that he was not worried with Cambodia’s plan to register “Khon” mask dance in UNESCO's intangible cultural heritage list as Cambodia’s cultural heritage.

He explained that the registration of “Khon” mask dance in Unesco’s intangible cultural heritage list does not necessarily mean that “Khon” is exclusively belonging to that particular country because “Khon” is the performing art of many countries in this region, including Thailand.

Moreover, he pointed out that Thailand is not a signatory of Unesco’s intangible cultural heritage agreement whereas Cambodia is and, hence, it can apply for inclusion of the mask dance in the list.

The prime minister, however, blamed previous governments for their lack of interest in becoming a member of Unesco’s intangible cultural heritage agreement. “And that is our problem which may lead to copyright problem in the future,” he said.

He also pointed out that the “Khon” mask dance of Thailand is different from Cambodia’s especially clothing – that the Thai clothing is more elaborate and grand.

Meanwhile, Mr Siripote Laomanakit, an independent historian and archaeologist, insisted that “Khon” is a performing art of the region which does not belong to any particular country.

He cited the case of Argentina and Uruguay which separately applied to register tango as their cultural heritage but Unesco later ruled that tango is a common cultural heritage of the two countries.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/166426


-- Thai PBS 2016-06-08

[MaiChai]

They were a single country before, so they should unify again and then end of arguement!

[webfact]

Thailand not concerned about registration of Khon with UNESCO by Cambodia

BANGKOK, 8 June 2016 (NNT) - The government has confirmed that Cambodia's bid to register the "Khon" masked play as Intangible Cultiral Heritage will not affect Thailand as they can pursue a joint inscription.

Deputy Prime Minister Kreau-ngam on Tuesday said he had not yet received a letter from Cambodia opposing Thailand's preparations for the registration of Khon as UNESCO Intangible Cultiral Heritage. It was the responsibility of the Ministry of Culture to consider the matter based on bilateral relations, said the deputy premier.

Minister of Culture Weera Rotephotchanarat said more than one country could pursue a joint inscription. In the past, Cambodia, Thailand and Indonesia jointly registered shadow play as Intangible Cultiral Heritage .

Thailand is requesting for the World Heritage listing of Thai food, Thai boxing, Norah dancing and Khon respectively.


-- NNT 2016-06-08

[keith101]

a lot of asian countries have these dances so how does Cambodia believe it is there countries alone and no other should do it

[Kaalle]

there's a similar thing going on over Muay Thai

aka Khun Khmer, depends on where you are

Jesus, they're fighting over Muay Thai?

Have you *seen* Muay Thai? Let the Cambodians have it and good luck to them.

A decent boxer would tear them apart.

W

A decent boxer would tear up a thaiboxer in a kick boxing fight? That is as stupid as saying a plummer would do better at brain surgery than a brain surgeon.

[tuanku]

Perhaps the Thai side could concede on the Khon and go for this as part of their intangible heritage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o95364QK2GY

[MisterTee]

Khol originated at the royal court of Cambodia before the Thais began their migration south to Siam.

Khol and Khon are the same word, but in Thai 'l' is pronounced 'n' at the end of a word - as in Ubol / Ubon.

During the late 1970s the Khmer Rouge made a concerted attempt to wipe out the Cambodian Royal Ballet completely, killing just about every dancer and banning the cultural activity.

Khing Sihanouk's daughter Princess Bopha Devi was a leading ballerina who was not killed as she was in Paris. After the Khmer Rouge defeat, she returned to Phnom Penh and painstakingly built up a new Cambodian Royal Ballet corps.

The Thais assisted honourably in this endeavour, providing teachers and expert dancers to help Bopha Devi successfully re-establish Cambodian / Thai classical dance in Cambodia.

So - both sides have taught each other down the centuries, with the Cambodians originally giving the dance to the Thais, and the Thais helping to give it back to Cambodia after the defeat of Pol Pot (who spent four of his youthful years being brought up at the Cambodian Royal Ballet by a relative).

So no need to bicker - it belongs equally to both closely-related national traditions, as well as to the Lao. Nobody should try to claim exclusivity.

Thanks for that informative post.

Idiocy hasn't completely taken over ThaiVisa - not yet anyway.