Thai trans student runner places in US state championships, not everyone is pleased

[arunsakda]

I don't believe in competitive sports for commercal purposes.

Don't know what this is all about but，biologic male competing with female is not fair, don't know why anybody would want to compete at all at an unfair advantage. Then again we have bicycle racing...

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Edited June 11, 2016 by arunsakda

[augustwest]

<snip>

Welcome to my ignore list.

I think your ignore list must be reaching ThaiVisa limits by now.

Not sure there is a limit. Maybe call it stress testing the software.

Congratulations you and ardokano are now on my ignore list

[stevenl]

As long as she is female according to IAAF regulations she can compete in female events. See here, http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-to-introduce-eligibility-rules-for-femal-1

And rules like that only inflame the hatred of so many .

Its common sense (to me anyway) that male transgenders should not be allowed to compete against women in female only events.

Live their life as a female - yes. Compete as a female - no.

Why would that inflame? Most transgenders will not meet those requirements, only physical females will.

Read this thread....

For some reason this transgender was allowed to compete in a female event - and IMO this is not 'on'.

Of course she was allowed, she is physically a female.

[MJCM]

<snip>

Welcome to my ignore list.

I think your ignore list must be reaching ThaiVisa limits by now.

Not sure there is a limit. Maybe call it stress testing the software.

5555, Waiting for the next Thaivisa crash !! Warning Ignore List OVERLOAD

[RickBradford]

Perhaps they could do it the same way as the toilets.

One race for the boys, one race for the girls, and one for everyone in between, if I may use the phrase -- everyone who is a man but wants to be a woman, or is a woman who wants to be a man, or isn't quite sure, or people who have "gender illnesses", can have their own race, or their own sports carnival if they want.

That way, everyone can do what they want without interference and maybe invent some exciting new sports along the way.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Just asking,but what locker room did she /he use/? just asking.

[Jingthing]

Just asking,but what locker room did she /he use/? just asking.

What dya think?

[teatree]

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

I think you missed the main point of his post - " A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman."

I've nothing against transgenders, but male transgenders should not be allowed to compete as a female.

Complete BS! If your statement was true why didn't she win?

Let me help you, because your opinion is a complete false statement.

Contrary to a poster earlier on in this thread, I believe that the average man is unlikely to beat the top female athletes - hence this transgender only coming 5th.

But I'm not sure why you think my post is BS and that I'm lying. Do you think I'm lying about having no problem with transgenders?

I think you are referring to my post.

I didn't mean an average man could beat a top female athlete, but rather an average pro male athlete would be a superstar pro female athlete.

Look at the women's 100m and 200m (the events mentioned in the OP) . The records were both set by 'Flo-Jo' (many say with the aid of drugs) with times of 10.49 sec and 21.34 respectively.

Compare them to athletics records according to age, and the times are beaten by a 15 year old boy in the 100m, with a time of 10.36, and by a 14 year old boy in the 200m, with a time of 21.16.

So, a 14 year old boy and a 15 year old boy are faster than the greatest female sprinter of all time.

[Kaalle]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

Exactly.

Imagine you woke up tomorrow with a pair of tits and a vagina. It wouldnt be a joke then, it would probably feel like you were in the wrong body and the rest you can figure out yourselves.

[tukkytuktuk]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

Exactly.

Imagine you woke up tomorrow with a pair of tits and a vagina. It wouldnt be a joke then, it would probably feel like you were in the wrong body and the rest you can figure out yourselves.

I'd be playing with myself all morning, shower, head down to the local market, buy some fruit and veg and carry on playing.

[AZBill]

Some accomplishment.

[LannaGuy]

As far as transgender people in sports, it's not a simple black and white question, and I think as transgender people have become much more visible (in the U.S. as this is a U.S. story) sports organizations are going to need to develop clear policies, balancing civil rights and fairness. This will probably take many years. It would be easier to just say just ban transgender people in all sports because they don't clearly fit into male or female teams, but I think in the U.S. context, that level of intolerance will not stand.

Contrary to the impression some might have of the pro transgender civil rights agenda, it's not a matter of anything goes. It's a matter of clear and reasonable policies that balance conflicting POVs.

This trans girl was able to compete as a girl in her sports organization. It doesn't follow that the U.S. women's Olympics soccer team is going to be all transgender women. In other words, calm down. Let these issues work out organically ... it won't be that big a deal.

we know what the answer IS and that's don't separate sports into sex I, for one, am BORED stupid by the woman tennis players moaning on about parity of prize money let them compate with the men! and let women, men, gays, trans and whatever compete together

Go away. We're all tired (or at least I am) with your posts saying that sporting events should not be separated between males and females.

I have no doubt that you would prefer this to happen, as it would confirm your view that men are superior to women in every sense?

It would only confirm that men are physically stronger - but don't let that stop you in your belief.

the post is related to the TOPIC as all would compete fairly including trans and toms etc. your attack on me is not related to anything and does nothing to address the TOPIC

[LannaGuy]

You go girl!

If a person can defy genetic reality by assigning themselves make-believe gender, it stands to reason that others can assign you make-believe gender too, miss.

Interesting example of misogyny in action.

how is it misogyny if it's a man?

[teatree]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

Exactly.

Imagine you woke up tomorrow with a pair of tits and a vagina. It wouldnt be a joke then, it would probably feel like you were in the wrong body and the rest you can figure out yourselves.

I would accept who I am and get on with my life. I would still be the same person inside.

[dcnx]

I'm about as liberal minded as it gets, and I very much support the rights of transgenders, BUT ....

A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman. And even though he/she did not win the final competition, he/she displaced some women in previous competitions, which allowed her to reach the finals, and them to not.

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

I think you missed the main point of his post - " A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman."

I've nothing against transgenders, but male transgenders should not be allowed to compete as a female.

Complete BS! If your statement was true why didn't she win?

Let me help you, because your opinion is a complete false statement.

Thais hardly ever beat westerners in sport.

Not Thai bashing, it's just a fact.

But the real reason, as it has already been said, he simply ran slower than the competition.

Edited June 12, 2016 by dcnx

[drakoanders]

Looks like a boy dressed as a girl to me very masculine face. If he is male even if he says he is more female than male he should not be in a female team in my point of view anyway

[dcnx]

Looks like a boy dressed as a girl to me very masculine face. If he is male even if he says he is more female than male he should not be in a female team in my point of view anyway

That's one of the reasons they eat hormones (he doesn't), is to soften their features and grow little breast. The downside is, it can make them tired all the time and gain too much weight if not careful. It's a balancing act.

His face and body is a dead give away that he's 100% a male not on any hormones whatsoever.

I briefly dated a trans years back when I was young and curious. It was eye opening. Yea, some actually believe they are woman, but many don't. They are just confused and are flamboyant gay men seeking attention. Seeing them in their private life would tell you everything you need to know about them. Men are men and long hair and a dress won't hide that, no matter how feminine you try to make your voice. But those who really believe they are woman, that shows too, in every aspect. Some that I have met are trans because their family would dress them like a girl when they were a child so they figured that's what they are supposed to do. Very confused people, some of them.

Ice moved to Alaska from Thailand just a couple of years ago. Living in the real world, I'd love to see him 5 years from now and see if he's living as a male or a female. My hunch, based on him currently doing nothing to hormonally change his appearance, is that he'll be a man. Especially after being out of crazy Thailand for a while where his friends probably encouraged his behavior. But who knows, maybe Ice is legit and will have a sexual reassignment surgery in the future and cut off her Willie. THAT is how you truly know they think they are a woman. Unless that commitment is made, I'm sceptical of all of them.

[Jingthing]

A transgender person by DEFINITION identifies with the sex other than their birth sex.

So you say you dated "trans" women that did not.

They were not transgender women.

Don't conflate GENDER identification with sexual ORIENTATION.

They are separate things.

As far as sexual orientation, a transgender person may be attracted to males, females, both, or neither, just as any human.

As far as Miss Ice, yeah she doesn't appear to be on hormones but that's really her personal concern, and has anyone actually provided a link saying either way?

Also keep in mind, it's not a public matter whether a transgender person has undergone surgery. It's only something of concern to their doctors or people intimate with them.

Of course, Miss Ice would normally be too young for any kind of radical surgery, but not too young for hormone therapy.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ceruhe]

Especially after being out of crazy Thailand for a while where his friends probably encouraged his behavior

I would kind of agree to that if the US wouldn't be the heart of infested regressive leftists that is has become. When it's come to the point where people promote #fatacceptance and #shoutyourstatus because the obective impact on your health from being obese doesn't matter as long as you feel comfortable with yourself or that there shouldn't be a stigma toward people with STDs that they are "dirty".

[stevenl]

Looks like a boy dressed as a girl to me very masculine face. If he is male even if he says he is more female than male he should not be in a female team in my point of view anyway

That's one of the reasons they eat hormones (he doesn't), is to soften their features and grow little breast. The downside is, it can make them tired all the time and gain too much weight if not careful. It's a balancing act.

His face and body is a dead give away that he's 100% a male not on any hormones whatsoever.

I briefly dated a trans years back when I was young and curious. It was eye opening. Yea, some actually believe they are woman, but many don't. They are just confused and are flamboyant gay men seeking attention. Seeing them in their private life would tell you everything you need to know about them. Men are men and long hair and a dress won't hide that, no matter how feminine you try to make your voice. But those who really believe they are woman, that shows too, in every aspect. Some that I have met are trans because their family would dress them like a girl when they were a child so they figured that's what they are supposed to do. Very confused people, some of them.

Ice moved to Alaska from Thailand just a couple of years ago. Living in the real world, I'd love to see him 5 years from now and see if he's living as a male or a female. My hunch, based on him currently doing nothing to hormonally change his appearance, is that he'll be a man. Especially after being out of crazy Thailand for a while where his friends probably encouraged his behavior. But who knows, maybe Ice is legit and will have a sexual reassignment surgery in the future and cut off her Willie. THAT is how you truly know they think they are a woman. Unless that commitment is made, I'm sceptical of all of them.

If that is true he would not be allowed to compete in the women's competition. However, she is allowed to compete in the women's competition, do her body and hormones are female.

[Jingthing]

Anyway, I would agree that it shouldn't be "anything goes" as far as transgender participation in gender segregated sports. Each sports authority will need to develop their own detailed policies if they don't have them already. I don't see any problem with considering hormone therapy as a factor. While normally that's a private matter, if a person enters competitive sports perhaps it's reasonable that they would come under scrutiny, just as all participants may be subject to performance drug testing.

It seems to me that sport's authorities are going to be capable of coming up with a happy balance of fairness for all without totally banning transgender people or automatically accepting all that state that identity either.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[impulse]

Anyway, I would agree that it shouldn't be "anything goes" as far as transgender participation in gender segregated sports.

Just like boat racing, they need an unlimited class where anything goes. (I was going to say drag racing, but I know that would set off some folks)

They should also do the same with doping- though that doesn't mean I equate the 2. Just that there should be an opportunity to compete for people who choose, or are forced for health reasons to take otherwise banned substances. And an opportunity for folks who don't identify with the gender indicted by their chromosomes- which should be the acid test in athletic competitions- no matter what the communists used to say about their Olympians.

Though this competition wasn't on a pro level, lots of scholarship money rides on these things, so I understand why some folks would be upset at any unfair advantage. I could also see someone desperate for a scholarship abusing the system for years if that would get them into (for example) Harvard. So it's important to set a precedent- one way or the other. Future $$ Billions are riding on it.

[Dagnabbit]

You go girl!

That is not a girl.

It's a boy that thinks he is a girl.

A boy with a physical advantage over the women he competes against.

Just an average male runner that is doing better than he would against other man because he has a physical advantage.

Your opinion is sickening. This is sheer bigotry against women.

[Dagnabbit]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

No - it's a disorder.

[Dagnabbit]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

Yes, sorry about that, I guess it is a life changing event. If a transgender person who identifies herself as female wants to compete with other females in a running race, so be it. She didn't win, she came third, so why the big fuss. Guess we are still competing with peoples perceptions of what is right and wrong. I think maybe religion is playing a big part in this debate too. Growing up with the bible rammed down your throat doesn't help you understand modern life. The world is after all more open to sexuality than before with gay marriage now accepted throughout the world, maybe we should think before we judge others.

This man would not have made the grade when competing against other men.

He only made it this far because of his masculinity.

It does not make it good because he didn't win. The 3rd place should have gone to a female by birth.

[Dagnabbit]

I love all the comments about "him" having a perceived unfair advantage because his biology is male with testosterone and then they fail to realize he didn't actually win anything.

Wouldnt their argument be nullified based on facts? Wouldnt they acknowledge that men are not superior?

What I see are a bunch of people without any compassion and respect in life. They just come on here pound their bigoted chests behind a keyboard and try and make themselves feel superior to others in any way they can. Typical of the crowd here lately. They just love to stir crap on transgender threads because if they did it on a gay thread it would be shut down immediately.

Seems transgender threads have become the new "gay bashing" preferred method of current times.

We are all different, what's so hard with respecting that fact?

Where is your compassion to the biological female that came 4th?

She worked hard and as a biological female she is in a much higher percentile when it comes to running than a biological male that runs at the same pace.

She worked hard but missed out on third place because a man was allowed to compete. Someone who isn't that great an athlete but that is effectively cheating by racing against people that do not have the hormonal advantage.

It's no different from 18 year olds that enter 'youth' races lying about their age.

Winning is so important to people, that cheating is just a tactic to them.

This boy will end up being disqualified and 3rd place given to the girl that deserves it.

[Dagnabbit]

I love all the comments about "him" having a perceived unfair advantage because his biology is male with testosterone and then they fail to realize he didn't actually win anything.

Wouldnt their argument be nullified based on facts? Wouldnt they acknowledge that men are not superior?

What I see are a bunch of people without any compassion and respect in life. They just come on here pound their bigoted chests behind a keyboard and try and make themselves feel superior to others in any way they can. Typical of the crowd here lately. They just love to stir crap on transgender threads because if they did it on a gay thread it would be shut down immediately.

Seems transgender threads have become the new "gay bashing" preferred method of current times.

We are all different, what's so hard with respecting that fact?

Looks like the only bashing is being done by you, I have compassion and respect for this trannie dude, I wish him well, it does not matter that he did not win, female hip structure leads to slower running, he is not that athletic so some girls beat him. I wonder where he would have placed competing against his own gender, not his chosen gender.

If competing against his own gender - he wouldn't have even qualified to race.

[Dagnabbit]

You go girl!

If a person can defy genetic reality by assigning themselves make-believe gender, it stands to reason that others can assign you make-believe gender too, miss.

Interesting example of misogyny in action.

You are the misogynist - women work hard to compete in athletics but you are happy for men with long hair to trample all over their efforts.

[anotheruser]

You should compete as the gender you were born. Nothing else is fair. This should be obvious. There is no coherent argument for doing it any other way. Obviously there could be a transgender league or whatever but their wouldn't be enough participants. One person mentioned a league where anybody can join and this would be fair enough.

Edited June 12, 2016 by anotheruser

[2fishin2]

You should compete as the gender you were born. Nothing else is fair. This should be obvious. There is no coherent argument for doing it any other way. Obviously there could be a transgender league or whatever but their wouldn't be enough participants. One person mentioned a league where anybody can join and this would be fair enough.

In your opinion.

Opinions are not necessarily facts.