Many lives lost in Orlando nightclub shooting

[neverdie]

Coverage on Fox now.
Not on BBC or Aljazeera.

It's surely coming.
A major international news event especially if the Islamic terrorism connection pans out.

Heard a deluded commentator on the BBC today saying we don't know yet it might be a Christian extremist, or somebody mentally ill. Right, baptists and Quakers are well known for this kind of attack on innocent people. Of course it's Islamic again, and again and again, stop making excuses for it.

That is deluded in this case but there have been violent attacks on gay spaces in the USA in the past by people motivated by Christian fundamentalism. No, nothing approaching THIS historic attack. Obviously not.

well we can relax, Obama still thinks Islam is a religion of peace, your president is a disgrace and thank god the fool only has six months left to embarrass the country

Still six months to go? Please kill me.

[MajarTheLion]

So you didn't get beat up but your 'friend' did, and you ran away! Is he still your friend?, it would be surprising. As for anyone drinking in public in a Muslim country during Ramadan then that is just a stupid thing to do. For a self confessed 'mild Muslim' (what is one of those) then it borders upon the ridiculous. If you are not following the 'holy month' of Ramadan, you are not Muslim, not even mildly, dispensations for fasting are for specific cases only and if you are aware and asking for a dispensation then drinking in public is simply mental. So to sum up, running away while your friend gets beat up - loser, drinking in public in a Muslim country during Ramadan when you are a Muslim - Mental.

Wow, is this the sort of "tolerance" the US can expect- being beaten up by strangers for not adhering to religious directives? This doesn't sound like the kind of people that fit well in the US where we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

[MajarTheLion]

Excerpt from NPR story on the Orlando mass murder (biggest non-combat mass-murder in US history)......

"According to a search of public records, Mateen is 29 years old and listed as living in Port St. Lucie, Fl. The search shows that Mateen had a firearm license and he received a security officer license in both 2011 and 2013. The search did not turn up any criminal record."

source

Boomer's comment; The above quote proves that gun lovers are wrong when they say only good guys will be legally carrying guns, if gun laws continue to be as loose as the elastic on gym shorts in the trash can. The mass murderer in today's shooting was officially a good guy up until the moment he started shooting. He had a security guard license and was carrying licensed guns. It proves that gun insanity continues in the USA. Guns should be banned for anyone not in law enforcement or military while in uniform on the job. Also exception for gun ranges, and some exceptions for hunting - though I and many others think hunting with guns is immoral and should eventually be banned also.

If the shooter was stopped at the door by a guard in an open-carry or concealed-carry state, he would have been let in, probably with a grin and friendly pat on the back. Is that insanity or what?! All gun lovers in the US should quietly take their guns to a patch of soil, dig a 4' deep trench and bury them, including ammo.

I have never met or seen anyone say that only good guys will be legally carrying guns. Why would you make such a claim?

[brewsterbudgen]

This is an odd one for the gun lobbyists . Not a single person there had a gun ?

It is likely a gun free place. Just one armed person could have made a big difference. The last one in Kalifornia was a gun free place.

No, he shouldn't have had that automatic weapon. Yeez you guys never learn

This was an illegal weapon..of course. Please tell me how a gun law would stop a terrorist from getting an illegal weapon.

It wouldn't, as Paris showed. But this guy was a security guard and bought the weapon legally. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to be allowed to legally own automatic weapons in a civilised country is deluded. Obama has been so weak on gun control. One likes to think HRC might effect some changes.

[slipperylobster]

i misquoted. sorry

Edited June 13, 2016 by slipperylobster

[MajarTheLion]

So...if the store was not there, then all the bad guys would not have guns.

Interesting theory

In this situation, this grub could legally buy a weapon that serves no purpose inside a domestic civilisation. When it comes to lovers, work collegues and neighbours people shouldn't have these weapons at home.

It is a fact though, that criminals and nasties in society don't shop at the local gun store (or sometimes do) but these weapons are traded on the black market and criminals already have them.

Remove these types of heavy artillery, auto and semi weapons of "mass destruction" from the community and let law enforcement officials remove them from the criminals.

There's plenty of other guns for the nut jobs to amuse themselves with, however if and when and there will always be the case some tool cuts lose with a gun, let it be a gun with restricted firing ability, at least give unarmed civilians some chance to flee.

These fully automatic weapons of war really stack the odds into the hands of these evil humans.

Having said that, freaks like this extremist will always find a way to kill.

Either which way you flip it, it's another sad day for the USA. No one can counter that argument and I also personally believe there MUST be a better way.

I use to say, civil war is coming to a street near you soon...........I believe the war is well underway and the authorities are u likely to stop it.

Actually, assault weapons are responsible for a very small percentage of murders. Murders from them are sensational like airline crashes. The fact is, only about 300 murders are committed with rifles each year. Obviously, some number smaller than that are committed with assault weapons. Out of around 11,000 murders, you are not talking about having a significant impact by banning assault weapons. Even if you were to achieve the liberal dream and go door-to-door and confiscate them, people hellbent on killing others will still kill others.

[MajarTheLion]

• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Mr. Mateen had legally bought both weapons used in the attack, a handgun and a long gun, in Florida within the last week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooting-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Sorry to be repetitive, but it proves that gun laws are useless when trying to avert gun violence. Ban guns in the US, and shootings will go down 50%.

Yeah, great idea. Constitution Schmonstitution!

[MajarTheLion]

guess you haven't been listening.

So when you see an AR-15, you simply assume it's an automatic weapon? If so, that's a HORRIBLE assumption. And the picture you included doesn't help your cause at all, as those incidents didn't involve automatic weapons either. I believe part of the gun control debate problem is the people who know the least about guns are the ones screaming the loudest about getting rid of them. That said, it is common for people to fear what they know little about.

Here are some facts on the AR-15 that will help you:

"Civilian versions have many trade and model names, but are generally referred to as AR-15s, although this name is a rough description and does not indicate whether a particular specimen of the rifle is capable of both semiautomatic fire and automatic fire, or is semiautomatic only."

It would be illegal for this savage to have an automatic weapon unless he had a certain type of FFL. By all accounts thus far, he bought the weapon legally. It is HIGHLY unlikely, based on this legality and based on the descriptions of the gunfire from witnesses, that this was an automatic weapon. And there is a HUGE difference between semiautomatic and automatic. So let's keep the facts straight, shall we?

Edited June 13, 2016 by MajarTheLion

[neverdie]

As someone who lives in Paris I can certainly understand how people of Orlando and more generally American people feel right now and I offer my warmest sympathy. Seems that no place is immune from these insane extremists.

I sincerely hope that the American people will be smart enough to see through the shameless exploitation Donald Trump is going to make of this.

Really compared to what? The white house has already come out and said their thoughts and prayers are with family...thats all they will ever say! nothing ever done..

Because the people and the NRA do not want the White House to do anything!

On a seperate note, me and my friend got beat up in the most secular part of Ankara yesterday for drinking in public during ramadan. Some black mercedes stopped, 2 guys stopped and got out of the car and beat the hell out of my friend, luckily I managed to run away.

Islam has no place in the modern world, this is coming from a guy which Islam writes on his ID as religion.

I identify myself as a mild muslim, and support Trump fully. I hope he becomes the president and cleans this mess.

So you didn't get beat up but your 'friend' did, and you ran away! Is he still your friend?, it would be surprising. As for anyone drinking in public in a Muslim country during Ramadan then that is just a stupid thing to do. For a self confessed 'mild Muslim' (what is one of those) then it borders upon the ridiculous. If you are not following the 'holy month' of Ramadan, you are not Muslim, not even mildly, dispensations for fasting are for specific cases only and if you are aware and asking for a dispensation then drinking in public is simply mental. So to sum up, running away while your friend gets beat up - loser, drinking in public in a Muslim country during Ramadan when you are a Muslim - Mental.

not Muslim.

[neverdie]

So...if the store was not there, then all the bad guys would not have guns.

Interesting theory

In this situation, this grub could legally buy a weapon that serves no purpose inside a domestic civilisation. When it comes to lovers, work collegues and neighbours people shouldn't have these weapons at home.

It is a fact though, that criminals and nasties in society don't shop at the local gun store (or sometimes do) but these weapons are traded on the black market and criminals already have them.

Remove these types of heavy artillery, auto and semi weapons of "mass destruction" from the community and let law enforcement officials remove them from the criminals.

There's plenty of other guns for the nut jobs to amuse themselves with, however if and when and there will always be the case some tool cuts lose with a gun, let it be a gun with restricted firing ability, at least give unarmed civilians some chance to flee.

These fully automatic weapons of war really stack the odds into the hands of these evil humans.

Having said that, freaks like this extremist will always find a way to kill.

Either which way you flip it, it's another sad day for the USA. No one can counter that argument and I also personally believe there MUST be a better way.

I use to say, civil war is coming to a street near you soon...........I believe the war is well underway and the authorities are u likely to stop it.

Actually, assault weapons are responsible for a very small percentage of murders. Murders from them are sensational like airline crashes. The fact is, only about 300 murders are committed with rifles each year. Obviously, some number smaller than that are committed with assault weapons. Out of around 11,000 murders, you are not talking about having a significant impact by banning assault weapons. Even if you were to achieve the liberal dream and go door-to-door and confiscate them, people hellbent on killing others will still kill others.

I agree with part of what you said, people will kill each other but different to you I look at these incidents like a first responder, I might be retired but I still see things through their eyes. TheseAssault weapons can rip holes though brick walls and the repetitive nature of their ability to fire makes them extremely dangerous, but you are right, the concealed handgun, the blade I someone's hand, these are weapons that can be hidden and launched in an instant without the victim even realising they are there.

My point is, AK's and their,e have absolutely no place in any civil society. Not trying to "US BASH" but the reality of a safe civil society is slowly slipping away. Time to get it together.

[i claudius]

Bad news.

Not 20 dead.

FIFTY dead.

So the biggest terrorist event in the USA since 9-11.

The desperation to make this an Islamic attack rather than a domestic terrorist attack will be huge.

No need for desperation , he was a muslim , he had links to terror groups , 99% of terror attacks are made by muslims , case closed .

[neverdie]

I see this as a very cowardly attack. In all my years I've never come across aggressive or nasty gay people. I've always seen them as the least aggressive people in the community. For decades they were suppressed and physically beaten for no reason,actually that still happens to date BUT I've never seen one set out viciously attacking other people. Of course that's not to say it doesn't happen.

As a community, the gay people seem to be <deleted> seeking and happy I mind set, despite all their challenges in the community.

This low life has targeted people that were not causing harm to anyone. I suppose old ladies at Bingo clubs and children at day care centres will be next.

What a cowardly piece of human excrement this low life grub was.

[slipperylobster]

For those that think 8 years of Obama led to the problems....just add four more years of the same, if Hillary wins.

[Sealbash]

That's going to be a few million more people voting for Trump now.

They really ought to vote for for someone who got the balls to take on the NRA and implement gun control.

And device control. The perpetrator also had a device.

[neverdie]

For those that think 8 years of Obama led to the problems....just add four more years of the same, if Hillary wins.

Goodness me slip, get a grip brother, these problems existed we'll before mr Obama was president.

[slipperylobster]

I see this as a very cowardly attack. In all my years I've never come across aggressive or nasty gay people. I've always seen them as the least aggressive people in the community. For decades they were suppressed and physically beaten for no reason,actually that still happens to date BUT I've never seen one set out viciously attacking other people. Of course that's not to say it doesn't happen.

As a community, the gay people seem to be <deleted> seeking and happy I mind set, despite all their challenges in the community.

This low life has targeted people that were not causing harm to anyone. I suppose old ladies at Bingo clubs and children at day care centres will be next.

What a cowardly piece of human excrement this low life grub was.

soft targeting with mass casualties is actually becoming the rule.

Gun Laws or not...

You can't write a law and expect these events to decline. If this was a terrorist act, then you must counter terrorism.....

An illegal weapon kills just as well and as legal one. Our society is sick....and this is not a problem with just the USA. Europe is having serious problems as well. People with even "legal" status are being recruited. It is the "Recruitment" issues that need to be addressed. The whole scheme, worldwide, is to create chaos and fear. Banning a gun in the USA does not stop an attack in Belgium, Germany or elsewhere.

This is what is being overlooked by international opinion that the gun laws in the USA will keep people in Europe safe. Not even slightly on the mark. Some Nations have enough to worry about, let alone worry about whether a security guard should own a weapon in the USA.

Always deflecting to some kind of gun control in the USA....yet this is a world problem. Recruitment of gullible candidates to do violence is happening right now...as we write....in Europe. No gun law passed in Florida is going to help a city in France, Belgium, or anyplace else. Nightclubs are being targeted....for a reason. Soft targets, destruction of morale (good times turning into nightmares) lack of protection........ it pans out well for someone who wants to do the most harm, to the most people, before getting killed.

Edited June 13, 2016 by slipperylobster

[neverdie]

I see this as a very cowardly attack. In all my years I've never come across aggressive or nasty gay people. I've always seen them as the least aggressive people in the community. For decades they were suppressed and physically beaten for no reason,actually that still happens to date BUT I've never seen one set out viciously attacking other people. Of course that's not to say it doesn't happen.

As a community, the gay people seem to be <deleted> seeking and happy I mind set, despite all their challenges in the community.

This low life has targeted people that were not causing harm to anyone. I suppose old ladies at Bingo clubs and children at day care centres will be next.

What a cowardly piece of human excrement this low life grub was.

soft targeting with mass casualties is actually becoming the rule.

Gun Laws or not...

You can't write a law and expect these events to decline. If this was a terrorist act, then you must counter terrorism.....

An illegal weapon kills just as well and as legal one. Our society is sick....and this is not a problem with just the USA. Europe is having serious problems as well. People with even "legal" status are being recruited. It is the "Recruitment" issues that need to be addressed. The whole scheme, worldwide, is to create chaos and fear. Banning a gun in the USA does not stop an attack in Belgium, Germany or elsewhere.

This is what is being overlooked by international opinion that the gun laws in the USA will keep people in Europe safe. Not even slightly on the mark. Some Nations have enough to worry about, let alone worry about whether a security guard should own a weapon in the USA.

Always deflecting to some kind of gun control in the USA....yet this is a world problem. Recruitment of gullible candidates to do violence is happening right now...as we write....in Europe. No gun law passed in Florida is going to help a city in France, Belgium, or anyplace else. Nightclubs are being targeted....for a reason. Soft targets, destruction of morale (good times turning into nightmares) lack of protection........ it pans out well for someone who wants to do the most harm, to the most people, before getting killed.

Yet strangely slip, we don't see as many of these types of 'assault weapon' crimes or attacks in Australia, even when you multiply or divide the incidents to make up for the less than 10% population.

I. Wonder why

[brewsterbudgen]

For those that think 8 years of Obama led to the problems....just add four more years of the same, if Hillary wins.

At least Hillary might try to push through more gun control reforms. Obama has been a tremendous disappointment in this respect, especially after what was promised following the Sandy Hook massacre.

Edited June 13, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[slipperylobster]

For those that think 8 years of Obama led to the problems....just add four more years of the same, if Hillary wins.

Goodness me slip, get a grip brother, these problems existed we'll before mr Obama was president.

Point is.....nothing is going to change much.

[Gary A]

We could make gun ownership illegal. That way we could stop people from killing each other? We have tough laws making drugs illegal. Now no one sells or uses drugs, right? PC is at least partly to blame. The old duck story comes to mind. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it MAY NOT be a duck. It is against the law to profile people. Would it help to prosecute preachers who advocate killing infidels? That would infuriate PC liberals.

Common sense would go a long ways to making the country safer. It's disgusting that people are no longer responsible for their actions. It is always the fault of something or someone else.

[Harsh Jones]

As someone who lives in Paris I can certainly understand how people of Orlando and more generally American people feel right now and I offer my warmest sympathy. Seems that no place is immune from these insane extremists.

I sincerely hope that the American people will be smart enough to see through the shameless exploitation Donald Trump is going to make of this.

How is addressing the issue head on exploitation ?

I don't think that jailing a significant part of your own people on purely religious grounds is anywhere close to properly addressing the issue. I don't want to make Godwin's law true one more time so I won't mention the last government who has "addressed" the issue of a internal threat coming from a religious group.

Anyway, that's for Americans to choose.

Islam is not a religion or race. So there's that...

The US does not have freedom of ideology.

[slipperylobster]

I see this as a very cowardly attack. In all my years I've never come across aggressive or nasty gay people. I've always seen them as the least aggressive people in the community. For decades they were suppressed and physically beaten for no reason,actually that still happens to date BUT I've never seen one set out viciously attacking other people. Of course that's not to say it doesn't happen.

As a community, the gay people seem to be <deleted> seeking and happy I mind set, despite all their challenges in the community.

This low life has targeted people that were not causing harm to anyone. I suppose old ladies at Bingo clubs and children at day care centres will be next.

What a cowardly piece of human excrement this low life grub was.

soft targeting with mass casualties is actually becoming the rule.

Gun Laws or not...

You can't write a law and expect these events to decline. If this was a terrorist act, then you must counter terrorism.....

An illegal weapon kills just as well and as legal one. Our society is sick....and this is not a problem with just the USA. Europe is having serious problems as well. People with even "legal" status are being recruited. It is the "Recruitment" issues that need to be addressed. The whole scheme, worldwide, is to create chaos and fear. Banning a gun in the USA does not stop an attack in Belgium, Germany or elsewhere.

This is what is being overlooked by international opinion that the gun laws in the USA will keep people in Europe safe. Not even slightly on the mark. Some Nations have enough to worry about, let alone worry about whether a security guard should own a weapon in the USA.

Always deflecting to some kind of gun control in the USA....yet this is a world problem. Recruitment of gullible candidates to do violence is happening right now...as we write....in Europe. No gun law passed in Florida is going to help a city in France, Belgium, or anyplace else. Nightclubs are being targeted....for a reason. Soft targets, destruction of morale (good times turning into nightmares) lack of protection........ it pans out well for someone who wants to do the most harm, to the most people, before getting killed.

Yet strangely slip, we don't see as many of these types of 'assault weapon' crimes or attacks in Australia, even when you multiply or divide the incidents to make up for the less than 10% population.

I. Wonder why

You can always find a good apple in a rotten bunch. Congratulations. Wish all countries were trouble free like yours.

[neverdie]

I see this as a very cowardly attack. In all my years I've never come across aggressive or nasty gay people. I've always seen them as the least aggressive people in the community. For decades they were suppressed and physically beaten for no reason,actually that still happens to date BUT I've never seen one set out viciously attacking other people. Of course that's not to say it doesn't happen.

As a community, the gay people seem to be <deleted> seeking and happy I mind set, despite all their challenges in the community.

This low life has targeted people that were not causing harm to anyone. I suppose old ladies at Bingo clubs and children at day care centres will be next.

What a cowardly piece of human excrement this low life grub was.

soft targeting with mass casualties is actually becoming the rule.

Gun Laws or not...

You can't write a law and expect these events to decline. If this was a terrorist act, then you must counter terrorism.....

An illegal weapon kills just as well and as legal one. Our society is sick....and this is not a problem with just the USA. Europe is having serious problems as well. People with even "legal" status are being recruited. It is the "Recruitment" issues that need to be addressed. The whole scheme, worldwide, is to create chaos and fear. Banning a gun in the USA does not stop an attack in Belgium, Germany or elsewhere.

This is what is being overlooked by international opinion that the gun laws in the USA will keep people in Europe safe. Not even slightly on the mark. Some Nations have enough to worry about, let alone worry about whether a security guard should own a weapon in the USA.

Always deflecting to some kind of gun control in the USA....yet this is a world problem. Recruitment of gullible candidates to do violence is happening right now...as we write....in Europe. No gun law passed in Florida is going to help a city in France, Belgium, or anyplace else. Nightclubs are being targeted....for a reason. Soft targets, destruction of morale (good times turning into nightmares) lack of protection........ it pans out well for someone who wants to do the most harm, to the most people, before getting killed.

Yet strangely slip, we don't see as many of these types of 'assault weapon' crimes or attacks in Australia, even when you multiply or divide the incidents to make up for the less than 10% population.

I. Wonder why

You can always find a good apple in a rotten bunch. Congratulations. Wish all countries were trouble free like yours.

Far from trouble free and yes criminals still have firearms but I still think our government did a reasonable job of trying to rid society of automatic weapons of mass destruction,

[mercman24]

can somone answer me this , why does an ordinary man in the street need assault weaponry, these are war weapons, and should be banned in my opinion, you only need a "two shot" gun to go hunting with not a kin machine gun, the uk banned "5 shot guns "if yanks want to play with these weapons then in my view only a registerd shooting range.should own these weapons of mass destruction. as proven, they have no use in civilian life.

Edited June 14, 2016 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[mopar71]

50 inocent people die in the name of peace and tolerance. When is islam going to be banned

Social conditioning tells me that is not the way to go. Common sense tells me otherwise.

When a tiny, tiny percentage of all people who own an inanimate object use that object in a deadly way, there are cries from some to ban it even though 99.999% of the others who own the inanimate object do not support its use in that way.

When a small percentage of all followers of an ideology/religion which actively preaches hate and death actually goes out and practices what they are preached to do, we are told not to speak ill of the ideology because the majority of its followers are peace loving even though international polls still how double-digit approval among the followers of their ideology for such actions.

Banning Islam would drive followers underground and make the bad ones more difficult to find. Although, we still can't seem to find them when we know who they are and have been checked by the FBI. Sadly, I think we just might need to accept the "new normal".

[Thaidream]

A terrible event- again. This one has so many issues associated with it- gun control; terrorism; Islam and homophobia as well as mental illness.

Gun Control: There is no reason for anyone to own an AR-15- a semi automatic weapon that can be converted to auto fire. It is a weapon to be used only by the police and military and must be banned immediately. The United States Second Amendment was formulated centuries ago before these type of weapons ever existed and the amendment guarantees an American's right to protect oneself. However, the organic laws are way too soft. Carrying an open weapon needs to be banned- Even in the "old West' you had to check your guns. Concealed weapon owners need to be properly vetted and licenses issued. Any gun owner needs to have a full background check and be excluded if there is any doubt the weapon will be abused. Had that been the case the perpetrator of this crime would have never been able to get a weapon-at least legally. Americans need to wake up . There are very few murders in the UK and Japan as a result of guns because these countries have strict controls. As an American, I do not own a gun nor do I want one. However, if I am a rancher in Texas and own a lot of land- I might want a rifle for protection or hunting. If I lived in New York City- no one should have a gun of any kind- except the police. Unless a reasonable gun law is enacted- these situations will continue.

Terrorism: It appears that it is here to stay and all civilised nations have to take measures to control it. Banning people because they are MUslim is not the answer but when a citizen/resident of a country travels to a 'terrorist' site to take up arms- they need to have their citizenship/residency stripped and refused re-entry or if they get in- jailed for supporting a terrorist movement. In addition, unfettered immigration from 'terrorist' areas of the World needs to be restricted so each individual can be thoroughly investigated. If a citizen of the UK or US or any other country wants to travel to a 'terrorist area' the police need to know why. The World is at war with radical Islam and it is a fact that can no longer be hidden.

Mental Illness; In the Us, there are very few insurance policies that even cover this in part or in total. The mentally ill are left to wander the streets of America; become homeless; put in jail by police instead of in treatment; and generally are ignored until something tragic happens. The federal and local governments need to come to grips with this and force the insurance companies to provide coverage; force hospital/clinics to treat the mentally ill; and force the police to identify these people before another tragedy takes place. How could the FBI interview the perpetrator of this crime on two different occasions and close their case. They knew who he was; what he espoused; that he was unstable. Why was there no intervention.

Frankly, these situations continue due to a lack of leadership in both government and the community. Politicians continue to cave in to pressure groups like the National Rifle Assoc (NRA); Insurance lobbies and Big Pharma. Is it any wonder Americans and people around the World are disgusted with the continued inaction to stop the carnage.

[mcfish]

Ban guns for muslims..easy

[augustwest]

It's already covered by the major news sources.

I guess Trump carries Florida

And their is 5 months to go

Americans have a choice now closed the broader or more killing

What are you on about?

The shooter was a U.S. citizen.

Has the vile monster pledged to boot out or lock up all Muslim U.S. citizens?

Hopefully that will be his next step

[brewsterbudgen]

It's already covered by the major news sources.

I guess Trump carries Florida

And their is 5 months to go

Americans have a choice now closed the broader or more killing

What are you on about?

The shooter was a U.S. citizen.

Has the vile monster pledged to boot out or lock up all Muslim U.S. citizens?

Hopefully that will be his next step

Booting out or locking up all muslim US citizens? Shame Muhammed Ali just died, as they could have locked him up or booted him out as an example.

The idiot Trump has a lot to answer for, and it's shameful that so many seem to share his idiocy.

[mcfish]

It could better said that its shameful so few dont share his policy but its easy to remain detached fat dumb and happy , that is until your child gets a bullet through the head. What then ? I suppose you just accept it. How ^ked up is that?

Edited June 13, 2016 by mcfish