Bringing Thaksin To Account

[Tony Clifton]

""Fair drugs probe" from the man who supported an unfair drug war.

Same Thaksin with his "revolving sushi bar" way of dealing with justice.

Thaksin demands 'fair' drugs probe

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has urged his lawyer, Wichit Plangsrisakul, to call for the resignation of former Nakorn Ratchasima senator Mr Kraisak Choonhavan and permanent secretary to the Justice Ministry Jaran Pakdithanakul, from a committee to investigate extra judicial killings in the war on drugs in 2003..

Wichit claimed Kraisak was the wrong person to deliberate on the case as he was one of the former senators who requested that Mr Thaksin be scrutinised for allegedly trying to conceal his assets. Mr Kraisak also reportedly went on stage to rally against the Thaksin regime in the name of the People's Allinace for Democracy.

Mr Thaksin also disagreed with Mr Jaran's involvement in the probe, insisting that he would exert influence on the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) since the DSI was directly under the Justice Ministry.

Mr Wichit urged both candidates to reconsider their roles before urging all involved to carry out their duties responsibly and without bias.

[Tony Clifton]

And yet a second demand for resignation on the very same day, different name, same bunch.

PPP calls on ASC Chairman to resign

(BangkokPost.com) - The People's Power party (PPP) has called on Nam Yimyaem to resign as Chairman of the Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC), accusing him of acting impartially in the investigation of the fire engines procurement scandal.

PPP member Kuthep Saikrajang claimed Mr Nam gave a statement in favour of Bangkok governor Apirak Kosayodhin and the Deputy leader of the Democrat party during a court hearing into the case.

Kuthep then accused Mr Nam of colluding with the Democrat party and currying favour with certain Democrat party members.

"I strong advise Mr Nam to reconsider his role in the investigation process of this case," warned Kuthep.

"I also believe it is best that Mr Nam resign as Chairman of the ASC before he tarnishes the good name of the organisation any further."

[sriracha john]

Thaksin nominates Newin to head drug war investigation

Deposed, demoralized ex-, former, previous, and prior temporary caretaker PM Thaksin Shinawatra put forth the name of his associate and former TRT Party member Newin Chidchob to head the drug war investigative panel. "I've not met a more honest official," Thaksin was quoted as saying. "He'll be impartial and unbiased in his probe." "I have it on good authority that Newin's involvement in the drug trade was on a high level which should enable him to closely examine the inner-workings of what happened," Thaksin elaborated.

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

New of the Near Future Dept.

September 5, 2007

*disclaimer* : this news has not happened...... yet.

[jumnien]

Thaksin nominates Newin to head drug war investigation

Deposed, demoralized ex-, former, previous, and prior temporary caretaker PM Thaksin Shinawatra put forth the name of his associate and former TRT Party member Newin Chidchob to head the drug war investigative panel. "I've not met a more honest official," Thaksin was quoted as saying. "He'll be impartial and unbiased in his probe." "I have it on good authority that Newin's involvement in the drug trade was on a high level which should enable him to closely examine the inner-workings of what happened," Thaksin elaborated.

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

New of the Near Future Dept.

September 5, 2007

*disclaimer* : this news has not happened...... yet.

Finally a post we can agree 100% on! This too shall pass...

[sriracha john]

HUMAN RIGHTS PANEL URGED TO ADMIT SPECIAL CASES

Justice sought for lost victims of drugs war

Dozens of hilltribe people missing or dead

Chiang Mai and Mae Hong Son - Four years after the war on drugs executed by the deposed Thaksin Shinawatra administration, the disappearance and killing of almost 40 hilltribe people in the North remains a mystery. No one has been brought to justice because local police lost interest in the cases, activists say. In an attempt to secure justice for the victims and their relatives, the Chiang Mai-based Inter Mountain People for Education and Culture in Thailand Association (Impect) and the Mae Hong Son-based Lisu Hilltribe People Association have called on the newly-appointed committee investigating extra-judicial killings in the 2003 war on drugs to treat them as special cases. The associations try to improve living standards and promote the rights of ethnic minority groups. They earlier sent the cases to the National Human Rights Commission after the Thaksin government was toppled by the military coup on Sept 19 last year. The associations reported to the commission that 28 Lisu people had disappeared and two others had been shot dead. Another group of seven Mien hilltribe people had disappeared. ''We want more relatives of those victims in the drugs war to tell us their stories because we believe many more hilltribe people were killed at that time,'' said Phanu Sangthienyod, an Impect coordinator. ''They were human beings. They were not wild animals and should not have been killed this way. The previous government must take responsibility for the merciless killings,'' he said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Sep2007_news04.php

Edited September 3, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Kraisak not willing to quit panel

Former senator Kraisak Choonhavan has shrugged off a demand from the supporters of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to resign from the newly-established committee investigating the questionable anti-drug war killings. It was Thaksin who initiated the drug war policy. ''I will not resign just because they are telling me to do so. They will try their best not to let anyone investigate him,'' Kraisak said yesterday in response to a call by Thaksin's lawyer for him and permanent secretary to the Justice Ministry Jarun Pukditanakul to resign from the panel for the sake of fairness. ''This was not unexpected. Opposition against any investigation into Thaksin's role will naturally come from lawyers and former MPs under the disbanded Thai Rak Thai party and ex-senators close to the party. Kraisak said the call did not surprise him at all. On the contrary, he was surprised at his opponents' remark that Thaksin's anti-drug war was similar to the US cocaine suppression in Mexico. Thaksin's supporters cited that the Mexico operation led to the deaths of over 200 people. ''By agreeing with the Mexico operation, it means Thaksin's people believe that it was right to cause hundreds of deaths,'' said Kraisak. He said deaths during narcotic suppression drives will only be acceptable if they result from officials' self-defence. However, the toll of over 2,000 people during Thaksin's anti-drug war did not result from any fight. They were mostly extra-judicial killings to settle personal scores and many of the victims never even had a record that they had dealt in drugs.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Sep2007_news05.php

Edited September 3, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

CHIANG RAI WAR ON DRUGS

Sad memories haunt once bustling village

The once lively and crowded northern village of Ban Pang Ta Krai now lies almost empty, home only to a few hardy souls haunted by sad memories. The drastic change came when hundreds of residents fled the village in tambon Huay Chompoo of Chiang Rai's Muang district during the war on drugs carried out by the Thaksin Shinawatra government.

''Only nine families returned to live in the village,'' said Muangjiew Penpornthip, 54, the wife of assistant village chief Tonjo, who was shot dead in the village in April 2003. The only people living in the village now are women, the elderly and small children. The young men left the village to work as labourers during the war on drugs and never returned, said Muangjiew. Now, the village does not have a grocery store or even a noodle stall. Hundreds of villagers moved to safer places shortly after the assassination of the highly respected Tonjo.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/05Sep2007_news79.php

[sriracha john]

THAKSIN'S WAR ON DRUGS / KIN STILL WAIT FOR JUSTICE

Mass killing of tribesmen remains unsolved

Chiang Rai _ Among 2,500 victims from the first three months of the Thaksin Shinawatra government's war on drugs, the mass killing of six Mien hilltribesmen at Ban Pha Lung, once known as a heroin production base, in Chiang Rai's Muang district appeared to be the country's biggest case. The six Mien (or Yao) tribesmen, including village chief Kiattisak Saksrichompoo, were shot and killed by gunmen while on their way home from a meeting at the office of the tambon Huay Chompoo administration organisation on Feb 27, 2003. Two days before the shooting, Kiattisak had led the men who were drug addicts and small-time drug dealers to surrender to authorities in Muang district. After they returned to the village, some villagers saw four strangers show up in a pick-up truck. One of them asked where the village chief's house was, saying they were assigned to make a survey of road conditions for improvements. ''I don't actually know who killed my husband but they [the killers] must pay the price for what they did to him and my family,'' said Laiwang Sae-phan, 45, wife of the late village chief. Mrs Laiwang said her eight-year-old youngest daughter kept asking about her father, and she did not have enough time to take care of her. The widow, now the family breadwinner, grows lychee to make a living but its price continued to fall due to oversupply of the fruit in the past few years.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/06Sep2007_news03.php

[sriracha john]

Just finished watching this excellent program on television.... not sure when it is due to air again.

ALJAZEERA PROGRAMMES: 101 EAST

Thai Drug Killings

Human rights campaigner Nick Cheesman

101 East investigates the Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's 'war on drugs' and the wave of extrajudicial killings that came with it.

Drug users endured beatings, forced confessions, arbitrary arrests and even death.

Human Rights Watch says 2,500 people were killed during one three-month period at the start of 2003.

The Thai government has opened an inquiry into the killings, but is the investigation politically motivated?

101 East met with one family whose innocent son and daughter were killed during the crackdown, and spent time with drug addicts at a Thai monastery where a secret potion is used to beat drug addiction.

Critics, such as 101 East's guest and human rights campaigner Nick Cheesman, point out that a climate where drug dealers are dehumanized leads inevitably to unlawful killings.

Sa and Kaew Phu-Malas innocent son and daughter were killed during the crackdown

Kudeb Saikrachang, a legal adviser to Thaksin's disbanded political party, says Thai people did support the anti-drug campaign and that the present enquiry is being used by the country's present leaders as a political weapon against Thaksin.

Thai journalist Pravit Rojanaphruk says Thai people's legitimate hatred of drug dealers should not allow police to kill suspected dealers without a trial.

- Aljazeera

Edited September 8, 2007 by sriracha john

[Gnarpjohan]

The point i am trying to make here is, that Thaksin without doubt was very guilty, but could not have done so without an enabling system that existed before Thaksin appeared on the scene, and still exists unchanged (and in some ways was even re-enforced by the coup, IMHO). Get rid of Thaksin without touching the system, we will have another round of killings in the future as a solution to real or perceived problems in Thai society.

I would be very interested in finding out more about the "enabling system" with regards to the extrajudicial killings in the "war on drugs". I have read that "police and local officials" were instructed to deal with persons charged with drug offenses in a "ruthless" and "severe" manner under the Thaksin government. Are these police and local officials often closely related to the "village scout" movement?

[ColPyat]

The point i am trying to make here is, that Thaksin without doubt was very guilty, but could not have done so without an enabling system that existed before Thaksin appeared on the scene, and still exists unchanged (and in some ways was even re-enforced by the coup, IMHO). Get rid of Thaksin without touching the system, we will have another round of killings in the future as a solution to real or perceived problems in Thai society.

I would be very interested in finding out more about the "enabling system" with regards to the extrajudicial killings in the "war on drugs". I have read that "police and local officials" were instructed to deal with persons charged with drug offenses in a "ruthless" and "severe" manner under the Thaksin government. Are these police and local officials often closely related to the "village scout" movement?

In a roundabout sort of way. The Village Scouts are still existing, received in the last 5 or so years again a bit more popularity, but it is more or less a thing of the past. It has though been replaced with something a bit more subtle. In the end though, it works along similar principles as regarding state, nationalism and informal power networks.

Nevertheless, many of the death squads were led by by people with extensive experience of similar during the communist insurgency.

And even today very similar killings are happening down South, as an AP article illustrates rather well.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/200...057/0/RSS_WORLD

Which, finally supported by more than my own opinion, does prove the point i have been trying to make for months - that Thaksin was just a part of a system, and his removal changed nothing as regarding human rights violations in Thailand, or what answers the Thai state has to real or perceived enemies of the state.

Today, under the rule of the army - we again have death squads going around Thailand, or better - the three southernmost provinces.

[hammered]

The point i am trying to make here is, that Thaksin without doubt was very guilty, but could not have done so without an enabling system that existed before Thaksin appeared on the scene, and still exists unchanged (and in some ways was even re-enforced by the coup, IMHO). Get rid of Thaksin without touching the system, we will have another round of killings in the future as a solution to real or perceived problems in Thai society.

I would be very interested in finding out more about the "enabling system" with regards to the extrajudicial killings in the "war on drugs". I have read that "police and local officials" were instructed to deal with persons charged with drug offenses in a "ruthless" and "severe" manner under the Thaksin government. Are these police and local officials often closely related to the "village scout" movement?

In a roundabout sort of way. The Village Scouts are still existing, received in the last 5 or so years again a bit more popularity, but it is more or less a thing of the past. It has though been replaced with something a bit more subtle. In the end though, it works along similar principles as regarding state, nationalism and informal power networks.

Nevertheless, many of the death squads were led by by people with extensive experience of similar during the communist insurgency.

And even today very similar killings are happening down South, as an AP article illustrates rather well.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/200...057/0/RSS_WORLD

Which, finally supported by more than my own opinion, does prove the point i have been trying to make for months - that Thaksin was just a part of a system, and his removal changed nothing as regarding human rights violations in Thailand, or what answers the Thai state has to real or perceived enemies of the state.

Today, under the rule of the army - we again have death squads going around Thailand, or better - the three southernmost provinces.

Hi Colpyat

The system is more an enabling mechanism and one that will adapt and adjust to what the superiors require. The level of death under the Thaksin regime was higher than under recent previous or sucessor ones, which stil had death but at lower levelsl. That stands out and is verified by international agencies. That alone suggests that Thaksin was not an innocent caught up in an evil system but rather an exploiter of a faulty system, and one with a greater disrgard for people's life than those that went before or after. Lets hope we dont see that level of death with even worse authoritarians in the future although with Samak back in the scene at the head of the feudal overlord MPs now that ex-TRT has lost its liberals and leftists and with a possible hardline military head things dont look too good on that front.

The country needs but probably wont get death squad trials including Mr. Thaksin if a message is ever to be sent out that this behavoiur is wrong and wont be tolerated. However, the message we get is usually just a repeat of the 2001 message that votes equals screw the law linked to those shadowy ones with power can fix the outcome of a trial. One wonders if certain people regret the arrangement made in 2001 in retrospect. Sad days for Thailand. We can almost gurantee that the vast majority of those selected, recruited and totally owned by their monied masters to hang out in parliament will once again put their own and more importantly masters interests before anyone elses. Oh and a few scraps will be thrown to the poor. Cant make them too wealthy or eductaed or it would be the end of the feudal overlord MPs, and very high degree of leakage must be ensured in any policy that way too to make sure most of the money finds its way to those it was really intended for. In that way nothing has changed too. We still live in a place that is labelled democratic and yet has the the levers of feudal control and patronage still firmly in place. Its just now a matter of who gets to control them and when they do how they will use them and how brutal they will be to keep their contol or destroy potential enemies and threats and how the levers will be used to ensure the level of patronage linked adoration to keep the rulers popularity high.

Nice simple equation really. Just need to see who gets to run the whole thing after the most corrupt and filthy election Thailand will have seen in aeons.

[ColPyat]

The system is more an enabling mechanism and one that will adapt and adjust to what the superiors require. The level of death under the Thaksin regime was higher than under recent previous or sucessor ones, which stil had death but at lower levelsl. That stands out and is verified by international agencies. That alone suggests that Thaksin was not an innocent caught up in an evil system but rather an exploiter of a faulty system, and one with a greater disrgard for people's life than those that went before or after. Lets hope we dont see that level of death with even worse authoritarians in the future although with Samak back in the scene at the head of the feudal overlord MPs now that ex-TRT has lost its liberals and leftists and with a possible hardline military head things dont look too good on that front.

Thaksin was of course not an innocent in an evil system, he was just a product and a symptom of a dysfunctional system. With his ouster nothing changed - today we have death squads killing people again. What i miss though is the outrage of the many posters who still scream four years after the drug war killings.

Hello - today we have death squads killing people!

The numbers are not really that important, what is important is that it does happen. Everybody here screams "Thaksin". What about Thanin? Under his reign after the '76 massacre more people died than in the drug war, and he has a comfortable seat on the privy council. Suchinda is still part of the HiSo. And both do hold pro government speeches now.

Panlop Pinmanee is 'special PR adviser' to the newly empowered ISOC.

Yes, the drug war killings happened, let go on about them. But what about the extra-judicial murders by death squads today? Why is there no word against them, no attempt to stop what is going on TODAY?

Is it because the victims are Muslim, and not PR convenient lawyers such as Somchai, but most definitely sympathizers with the insurgency, or insurgents?

Most victims of the drug war were not innocent either. And lets be very clear here - the drug war was a proper war, especially at the borders. The traffickers were heavily armed troops who put up resistance.

Or is it because in those days the reviled Thaksin was head of government, and today it's a bit more difficult to pin point who is behind it?

I don't get it - we have death squads and by the informal power networks sponsored vigilante organizations committing extra-judicial killings - today - and hardly anybody raises an eyebrow. Especially not the ones most vocal about the drug war killings.

[Gnarpjohan]

Everybody here screams "Thaksin". What about Thanin? Under his reign after the '76 massacre more people died than in the drug war, and he has a comfortable seat on the privy council.

As you write, there are some people on the privy council who are no strangers to harsh military attacks. Is it likely that the "war on drugs" did not have backing from the privy council? Is it possible? It does not seem to far-fetched to think that the chain of events in the war of drugs started with some initiative from this group of army men. They dealt with the drug manufacturers in the same way as they dealt with the Communist Party of Thailand and its alleged sympathizers. Or am I totally off base here?

[ColPyat]

Or am I totally off base here?

Somebody here is using his head for something else than just growing hair.

But isn't a position of plausible deniability comfy?

Edited September 9, 2007 by ColPyat

[Siripon]

Thaksin was a lot more culpable than the colonel is letting on.

He's an ex policeman and gave the go ahead in several speeches for governors and the police to deal with the drug problem extra judiciously.

A marketing man, he made it plain if targets were not met then transfers of civil servants would occur.

The targets were drawn up sloppily, frequently relying on hearsay and anonymous notes.

He gave the green light quoting, ex- police chief Pao,' there is nothing under the sun the police cannot do'.

Every policeman knows what that means.

Any comparison with the situation in the deep south is misleading, the police and population were not facing daily killings and bomb attacks by amphetamine dealers.

[ColPyat]

Thaksin was a lot more culpable than the colonel is letting on.

He's an ex policeman and gave the go ahead in several speeches for governors and the police to deal with the drug problem extra judiciously.

A marketing man, he made it plain if targets were not met then transfers of civil servants would occur.

The targets were drawn up sloppily, frequently relying on hearsay and anonymous notes.

He gave the green light quoting, ex- police chief Pao,' there is nothing under the sun the police cannot do'.

Every policeman knows what that means.

Any comparison with the situation in the deep south is misleading, the police and population were not facing daily killings and bomb attacks by amphetamine dealers.

Ah, so in the south it's OK and perfectly permissible then to extra-judicially kill people because the lay bombs and kill what they perceive as collaborators of tools of the state, and therefore we don't need to apply the letter of the law?

And drugs were not an extreme threat to society, with traffickers at the borders often better armed than even the army pursuing them, and drug rings inside the country receiving high level protection from corrupt officials, nearly destroying a whole generation of Thais?

And haven't you read my posts about the death squads during the drug war - mostly not police, but border police, or "dor chor dor" who are not under police authority?

As long as the view of Thailand basically being a perfectly benign system is not touched upon, only having been abused by one evil politician, nothing will change. Throw history and all corroborating evidence out of the window, ignore painful facts.

Lets just hope that one day somebody in that strange system will not decide that you or i are "not human" and therefore do not deserve the benefit of due process.

I am sorry - it does not matter who the target of death squads is, or how many people get executed. What matters is only that the use of such is seen as a viable alternative. That has started long before Thaksin, and as we see now - it continues without any difference.

Who is guilty now?

No need to answer - it is self explanatory.

[Siripon]

Thaksin was a lot more culpable than the colonel is letting on.

He's an ex policeman and gave the go ahead in several speeches for governors and the police to deal with the drug problem extra judiciously.

A marketing man, he made it plain if targets were not met then transfers of civil servants would occur.

The targets were drawn up sloppily, frequently relying on hearsay and anonymous notes.

He gave the green light quoting, ex- police chief Pao,' there is nothing under the sun the police cannot do'.

Every policeman knows what that means.

Any comparison with the situation in the deep south is misleading, the police and population were not facing daily killings and bomb attacks by amphetamine dealers.

Ah, so in the south it's OK and perfectly permissible then to extra-judicially kill people because the lay bombs and kill what they perceive as collaborators of tools of the state, and therefore we don't need to apply the letter of the law?

And drugs were not an extreme threat to society, with traffickers at the borders often better armed than even the army pursuing them, and drug rings inside the country receiving high level protection from corrupt officials, nearly destroying a whole generation of Thais?

And haven't you read my posts about the death squads during the drug war - mostly not police, but border police, or "dor chor dor" who are not under police authority?

As long as the view of Thailand basically being a perfectly benign system is not touched upon, only having been abused by one evil politician, nothing will change. Throw history and all corroborating evidence out of the window, ignore painful facts.

Lets just hope that one day somebody in that strange system will not decide that you or i are "not human" and therefore do not deserve the benefit of due process.

I am sorry - it does not matter who the target of death squads is, or how many people get executed. What matters is only that the use of such is seen as a viable alternative. That has started long before Thaksin, and as we see now - it continues without any difference.

Who is guilty now?

No need to answer - it is self explanatory.

The border police could not have acted with impunity without Thaksin's approval, how mnay judicial killings were there under the previous governments of Chuan, Banharn, Chavalit and Chartchai?

Very few in comparison.

The fact is Thaksin gave them the go ahead to operate outside the law and being at the height of his power the police knew there would be no comeback.

Journalists called his regime a police state, I remember his comments when taking power,' Thammasart have had their turn(ie Chuan Leekpai), now it's the turn of the police.'

Thaksin rode roughshod over the bureaucracy, proclaiming himself as the CEO of Thailand, he has to take responsibility.

Your comment about drugs 'nearly destroying a whole generation of Thais ' are somewhat exaggerated would you not agree?

[ColPyat]

The border police could not have acted with impunity without Thaksin's approval, how mnay judicial killings were there under the previous governments of Chuan, Banharn, Chavalit and Chartchai?

Very few in comparison.

The fact is Thaksin gave them the go ahead to operate outside the law and being at the height of his power the police knew there would be no comeback.

Journalists called his regime a police state, I remember his comments when taking power,' Thammasart have had their turn(ie Chuan Leekpai), now it's the turn of the police.'

Thaksin rode roughshod over the bureaucracy, proclaiming himself as the CEO of Thailand, he has to take responsibility.

Your comment about drugs 'nearly destroying a whole generation of Thais ' are somewhat exaggerated would you not agree?

And Thaksin could not have acted without the consent (order?) of the higher ups, especially the ones in the non-or semi-formal power sectors. Proof of my theory is that Thaksin was overthrown. He could have been overthrown during or shortly after the drug war killings (which he wasn't).

During Chatchai's reign there were the killings of the Vietnamese boat people, then Suchinda (we know what happened then, including an amnesty before he stepped down), Chuan, Banharn, Chavalit saw no such threats to society that have required the Thai typical use of extra judicial killings (other than a few isolated incidents). Chuan 2 saw the rise of drugs, but he (and other powers) chose to do nothing against them. And drugs were (and become again) a huge thread to society. Many village and poorer urban communities were almost completely addicted to drugs (such as my wife's village in those days).

I understand that it is difficult and painful to look with different eyes to your own society, and expose yourself to views that go against anything that has been put in your mind since you were a child. But i would strongly suggest not to neglect the many recent studies that show a very different light on Thailand's power distribution, which though do solve most contradictions the so far propagated views give.

And - today again death squads are used against an enemy of state. Not by Thaksin, he's right now not part of the game.

Do you justify the use of extra-judicial killings by deaths squads by militias (and most likely led by members of the security forces) down south, or not?

[marshbags]

While the headline indicates the following is about a certain football club the letter contains several references to Thaksin and his obvious control of many H.R.Issues that took place under his TOTAL leadership.

Taken from my references to H.R.Issues to refresh / provide a recap on some of the yet to be completed / investigated upon:-

Ref url

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/31/thaila16544.htm

Quote:-

Letter to the Premier League's Chief Executive, Richard Scudamore

July 30, 2007

Mr. Richard Scudamore

Chief Executive

The Premier League

Re: Purchase of Manchester City Football Club by Thaksin Shinawatra

Dear Mr. Scudamore:

Human Rights Watch is an independent, non-governmental human rights organization based in New York, with offices in many other cities, including London.

We write regarding your approval of the sale of Manchester City Football Club to Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Prime Minister of Thailand. In light of the widespread, serious and systematic human rights abuses perpetrated in Thailand under Mr. Thaksin’s leadership, we are very concerned that you concluded that he is a “fit and proper person” to purchase Manchester City Football Club.

We believe that an assessment of any prospective team owner should at least include an assessment of the individual's human rights record, his or her record on corporate responsibility, and whether there are credible allegations of corruption or other issues that might call into question whether the person is truly "fit and proper" for ownership. Such criteria should examine the individual's record globally and not just in relation to UK laws. (We take no position on international ownership.)

In the case of Mr. Thaksin, we have condemned the coup that ousted Mr. Thaksin from power last September and continue to be critical of the military-backed government. However, our research and that of other credible organizations shows that Mr. Thaksins time in office from 2001 to 2006 was characterized by numerous extrajudicial executions, disappearances, illegal abductions, arbitrary detentions, torture and other mistreatment of persons in detention, and attacks on media freedoms.

The most disturbing period of Mr. Thaksins rule was his “war on drugs,” in which Thai security forces routinely committed serious violations of human rights. By his government’s own count, more than 2,275 people were killed in the three months after the campaign was launched on 1 February, 2003. There is little doubt that Thailand was facing a boom in the use of methamphetamines at the time, but instead of responding with legal measures, Mr. Thaksin unleashed his security forces in a violent campaign against alleged drug traffickers and sellers. He issued cash incentives to police and local officials to remove thousands of drug suspects from government blacklists. Many on the blacklists, which were issued to local government and police, were killed. In a speech announcing the campaign, Mr. Thaksin borrowed a quote from a former police chief known for having orchestrated political assassinations in the 1950s: “There is nothing under the sun which the Thai police cannot do, Mr. Thaksin said. Because drug traders are ruthless to our children, so being ruthless back to them is not a bad thing. . . It may be necessary to have casualties. . . If there are deaths among traders, its normal.

The gravity of the situation prompted the US State Department to report in 2004 that Thailands human rights record has worsened with regard to extrajudicial killings and arbitrary arrests.

The United Nations special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, Asma Jahangir, expressed deep concern at the high number of deaths in the war on drugs.

A similar alert was raised by the United Nations Human Rights Committee on July 28, 2005. A Human Rights Watch report, Not Enough Graves: The War on Drugs, HIV/AIDS, and Violations of Human Rights, documented shocking details of extrajudicial executions of drug suspects in Thailand (the report can be found at http://hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/).

Mr. Thaksin was equally brutal in addressing the insurgency in Thailands predominantly ethnic Malay Muslim southern border provinces. His heavy-handed counterinsurgency policy, which emphasized the unnecessary or excessive use of force and encouraged grave human rights violations, lead to the deaths of hundreds of ethnic Malay Muslims and injuries to many more.

A Human Rights Watch report, “It Was Like Suddenly My Son No Longer Existed”: Enforced Disappearances in Thailand’s Southern Border Provinces, detailed 22 cases of unresolved “disappearances” in which the evidence strongly indicated that the Thai military forces and police were responsible (the report can be found at http://hrw.org/reports/2007/thailand0307/).

Amidst these widespread abuses, Mr. Thaksin failed to address seriously the cultureof impunity that prevailed in the country during his government. In March 2004 Somchai Neelapaijit, chairman of Thailand’s Muslim Lawyers Association and a prominent critic of government human rights abuses, was abducted from a busy street in Bangkok. He has never been seen since and is presumed dead. Under strong public pressure, five police officers were belatedly arrested in connection with the abduction, but only one was convicted of the lesser charge of assault. In his 3 concluding remarks, the judge criticized deficiencies in the police investigation and work of the prosecutors. Mr. Thaksin publicly stated that government officials were involved in Somchai’s abduction and killing but took no action to bring the perpetrators to justice, even though it is widely believed that their identities, and that of their superior officers, are known to the government. Somchai’s wife, Angkhana Neelapaijit, told Human Rights Watch that Mr. Thaksin had informed her that her husband was taken to Ratchaburi province after being abducted. It is unclear how Mr. Thaksin learned of this information, but it is clear he did not act on it (for more on this case, see the Human Rights Watch statement at http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/03/11/thaila12876.htm).

In all these cases, as well as many other state-sponsored violations of human rights brought to his attention, Mr. Thaksin made no apparent effort to pursue serious investigations to bring those responsible to justice.

Based on his record, Mr. Thaksin does not appear to us to be fit and proper under any reasonable definition of that term. His past actions should lead to him being subjected to investigations by impartial police and prosecutors, not welcomed into the club of owners of the most popular football league in the world.

We understand that you may not follow the political or human rights situation in Thailand. But in light of all the publicity about Mr. Thaksin’s record in office, a quick Web search of Thaksin and human rights or Thailand and human rights would have uncovered a wealth of relevant information, including the Human Rights Watch reports noted in this letter.

We hope you would agree that the integrity of the Premier League depends in large part on the integrity of its owners. The rules concerning who is fit and proper should ensure that serious human rights abusers are not among the leagues owners.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. We would be happy to discuss this further at your convenience.

Yours sincerely,

Brad Adams

Asia Director

Human Rights Watch

Unquote.

C.P.

As C.E.O. and Premier of the the government during his years in office, along with his renowned reputation as such that he demanded total control of all that happened under his watch, no way would he have allowed himself to be relegated to the position of underling and any appearances that indicate otherwise were purely cosmetic from his stand point.

Add to this his infamous reputation ( and justified ) as being a dictatorial leader not only in Thailand but internationally seems to me to rightly put him at the top of the ladder when it comes down to the implimentation of his evil, humanitarian abuses and accountability.

He would have still been in power had it not come to light what he was planning, which incidentally in my humble opinion would have had unimaginable consequences on Thai society for 99% of the population.

Add to this the Shin Corp revelations that happened prior to this that started the setting in motion, relinquishing / total grip on power and final actions to take away his misuse of authority, it was an obvious scenario that one thing or another was going to happen.

Thank whoever you wish, but in my case god, it wasn,t the other !!!!!!!!!

There is much yet to come regarding his callas / evil authority and his role as leader and overseer as the stones continue to turn over.

To indicate that he could not have proceeded without consent / order of higher ups makes a mockery of the facts and his inability to listen / take notice of such observations unless it was to his selfish benefit and is beyond my comprehension.

There is much yet to come regarding his callas / evil authority and his role as leader and overseer, as the stones continue to turn over and KARMA catches up with him and his associates.

marshbags

Edited September 10, 2007 by marshbags

[ColPyat]

Add to this the Shin Corp revelations that happened prior to this that started the setting in motion, relinquishing / total grip on power and final actions to take away his misuse of authority, it was an obvious scenario that one thing or another was going to happen.

Thank whoever you wish, but in my case god, it wasn,t the other !!!!!!!!!

There is much yet to come regarding his callas / evil authority and his role as leader and overseer as the stones continue to turn over.

To indicate that he could not have proceeded without consent / order of higher ups makes a mockery of the facts and his inability to listen / take notice of such observations unless it was to his selfish benefit and is beyond my comprehension.

There is much yet to come regarding his callas / evil authority and his role as leader and overseer, as the stones continue to turn over and KARMA catches up with him and his associates.

marshbags

And not one comment on the death squads who are killing people TODAY!

That is beyond my comprehension - you people go on and on about Thaksin, but it has been now two or three days since i posted an article in several threads that is showing light on vigilante groups which are committing extra-judicial killings today - and not one of you "human rights" advocates even feel that this is even worth a comment.

It seems to me that you only care about hating Thaksin, and human rights violations are just one of the tools that enable you to hate Thaksin.

It obviously doesn't bother you that severe human rights violations happen under this leadership as well.

Edited September 10, 2007 by ColPyat

[Plus]

I haven't seen Colpyat's post about death squads in the south yet, not in this thread at least, so I can't comment on it.

Besides this thread is about drug war, you can't easily cover South and military strategies there without seriously derailing the topic.

"Higher ups" involvment in Thaksin's drug war is a matter of speculation. I serioulsy doubt that any higher ups were briefed on all the details prior to the killings. I seriously doubt that they had given consent on the killings one way or another.

Here's MY speculation on how it went.

Thaksin: "We want to solve drug problem"

Higher Up: "Ok, go ahead, it's important"

A few months later

Higher Up: "You caused deaths of innocent people!"

Thaksin: "You approved it!"

Higher Up: "No, I didn't, I said - solve the drug problem, I didn't say - kill everyone on the list".

[Tony Clifton]

Colpyat,

You seem really bent on that single news article from Washington and mentioning "death squads killing people "today" everyday". Any other sources on this subject?

Why would military or police shed their uniform only to put on another "official looking " one instead of civilian clothes?

For all we know, could be a bunch of pissed offf Tesco parking lot attendants or, more likely, locals preferring to settle a local matter themselves in an instant with much less disturbance than with an outside force. I wouldn't support a vigilante move as I am not for the killing of insurgents, I prefer to see them arrested and prosecuted in a non-Guantanamo fashion, same goes for vigilantes.

And the emphasis on the article's assault weapons.

Any local businessmen/politicians can arrange for those to be available.

Even you or I could buy one with a few spare clips and a crate of ammo if we looked long enough in the right place.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[ColPyat]

Colpyat,

You seem really bent on that single news article from Washington and mentioning "death squads killing people "today" everyday". Any other sources on this subject?

Why would military or police shed their uniform only to put on another "official looking " one instead of civilian clothes?

For all we know, could be a bunch of pissed offf Tesco parking lot attendants or, more likely, locals preferring to settle a local matter themselves in an instant with much less disturbance than with an outside force. I wouldn't support a vigilante move as I am not for the killing of insurgents, I prefer to see them arrested and prosecuted in a non-Guantanamo fashion, same goes for vigilantes.

And the emphasis on the article's assault weapons.

Any local businessmen/politicians can arrange for those to be available.

Even you or I could buy one with a few spare clips and a crate of ammo if we looked long enough in the right place.

This is an AP wire distributed worldwide, and published by the Washington Times. The research of this article is impeccable, and these facts have already been known for quite some time by many. I have alluded to this for several months now, could though not say more due to a lack of published material. And there is far more than what is described in this article, i will wait though commenting upon until something has been published by a verifiable source.

One of the reasons why so little is known about this is that on the ground investigations into this shadow world are exceedingly dangerous and difficult, and almost impossible to get access to. The only openly published and accessible article i am aware of is this AP wire.

But yes, i would very much prefer to have insurgents arrested and prosecuted - due process of the law, and such.

But the fact that there are these killings happening does shine an important light on also what happened during the drug war. I am not exonerating Thaksin here. But the fact that the same happens now again, should explain that the human rights violations in Thailand are not just to be seen as one man abusing the system, but being systematical itself, regardless of who is PM.

Edited September 10, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

I haven't seen Colpyat's post about death squads in the south yet, not in this thread at least, so I can't comment on it.

Here it is:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/200...057/0/RSS_WORLD

[hammered]

Death squads in the south should be investigated. That however does not in any way detract from the murderous campaign unleashed by the Thaksin regime. The quoting of Pao was something I had forgotten about but is a direct example of why Thaksin did directly order the whole thing as head of the government.

We should condemn the death in the south but we should not allow it any way to be used as a reason to lessen the horrific atrocities committed by the thaksin regime. Two wrongs never make a right.

Condemn everything and demand trials for all and do not let those involved use politcal levers to once again escape prosecution.

[ColPyat]

Death squads in the south should be investigated. That however does not in any way detract from the murderous campaign unleashed by the Thaksin regime. The quoting of Pao was something I had forgotten about but is a direct example of why Thaksin did directly order the whole thing as head of the government.

We should condemn the death in the south but we should not allow it any way to be used as a reason to lessen the horrific atrocities committed by the thaksin regime. Two wrongs never make a right.

Condemn everything and demand trials for all and do not let those involved use politcal levers to once again escape prosecution.

What is happening today in the south does not detract from the drug war killings. But it does explain that the drug war killings are not just "horrific atrocities committed by the thaksin regime" - much worse: they have been, as the ones are today - an idiosyncrasy of the Thai system.

Why don't you all call what is happening down South now "the horrific atrocities committed by the Surayud/Sonthi regime" ?

[Mid]

I haven't seen Colpyat's post about death squads in the south yet, not in this thread at least, so I can't comment on it.

Here it is:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/200...057/0/RSS_WORLD

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1524634

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1471951

[sriracha john]

I haven't seen Colpyat's post about death squads in the south yet, not in this thread at least, so I can't comment on it.

Here it is:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/200...057/0/RSS_WORLD

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1524634

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1471951

Precisely. With 2 separate threads already running on this article, do we need this to be the third?

Particularly in view that the article and the threads are nearly a month old....

Edited September 10, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

Precisely. With 2 separate threads already running on this article, do we need this to be the third?

Particularly in view that the article and the threads are nearly a month old....

And it is telling that all our outspoken Junta supporters have not commented on these death squads and human rights violations happening now, under this government, and evade any discussion.

Hmmmm...where is that Human Rights activism now?