Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs

[wlcart]

As others have said, decriminalization and regulation have been proved to be very effective in countries like Portugal. However, for this to work you do need investment in treatment, therapy, and education. I can't see the Thai government doing that effectively, unfortunately, although I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know why the general ThaiVisa stance on drugs seems to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' - that approach has been an absolute disaster everywhere, why not try something different?

Sorry mate no dice. Got more than a few friends back in Oz whose lives and families have been ruined by ice. Sadly now most are in the nick. Problem with your theory is they do try rehab first and try and keep em out, but after they haved failed 3 or 4 times and then start jumping through peoples windows or bashing <deleted> or just wigging out, they have to be locked up for everyones sake. In your utopia how many times do you get to try rehab on those that do and also clearly dont want it?

Is ice legal in Oz, no. So how can you compare that to the statement? The argument is that in other countries legalisation has lowered the drug consumption and on top of that those who do use get medical and therapeutic attention, not simply slammed up into a jail and forgotten about, ready to reoffend. If people want to do drugs they will find a way, legal or not

Thats right most will. The point is for most people there is no such thing as recreational drug use. I think anyone that would advocate legalisng the more insidious highly addictive drugs like coke, crack, ice, yaba or any form of meth has no comprehension, knowledge, or first hand experience with any of them. So please tell me once it all becomes legal how much ice or yaba would you like your mates or family to be on? Whats the acceptable recreational legal dosage

You are funny. You obviously do not like drugs, but you sure love drinking the cool aid.

If you mean "most" as in over 50%, you are just factually wrong:

Contrary to popular drug policy discourses that portray drug users as descending from first use into a hell of dependence and addiction, a new analysis of data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) suggests that most first-time users of most drugs were not using them a year later and that for nearly all illicit drugs, more than 90% of first-time users did not become dependent.

The research report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) found that only 1% of first-time users of inhalants and tranquilizers were dependent a year later. For hallucinogens and sedatives, the figure was 2%; for pain relievers and alcohol, 3%. The drug with the highest number of dependent users a year after first use was heroin (13%), followed by crack cocaine (9%), marijuana (6%), stimulants (5%), and powder cocaine (4%).

When it came to any use of the drug within a year after first use, only alcohol and marijuana broke the 50% barrier, with 71% and 52%, respectively. Less than 20% of first-time heroin or crack users were still using after a year without being considered dependent, while slightly more than one-third of stimulant and powder cocaine users were.

Such data may not fit some popular narratives about drug use -- particularly the widely-held notion that methamphetamine is "more addictive" than other substances -- but that's what the numbers say.

Glad that im funny, whats funnier still is that you can pull all your stats off google and still have no comprehension of the written word. "Most" as in most of the people that wish to do drugs will still do them which you may have understood if you read any of the preceding posts. For all your numbers I dont see how first time or even those using a year later correlates at all with habitual users of some drugs. I dont drink any kool aid mate but neither am i giving myself up on this or any other forum but when "most" of the blokes you grew up or knocked around are sloughed because of this shit maybe youd understand. Keep pulling shit off google and wiki eh cos thats so real bra. Maybe we just grew up in different places

Before I start, good luck in mastering the "quote" tool in a forum.

You know nothing about me, or my experiences, or my community, or my friend's or families experiences with drugs. Nothing. But you assume you do, why is that? I you so clever that through my stance alone you can tell? You probably think you can.

Yeah, how stupid of me to look at google and fact check. Silly me. Never mind my 25 years in public policy and education working with at risk youth including recovering addicts. Believe or not, it is not the first time I have been in a discussion about if the majority of drug users are "addicts". From the evidence I have seen and read, they are not.

So here is another written word for you. "anecdotal"

[Redline]

He must have gotten his information about the hazards of yaba from the medical council. Only they would give such misinformation saying yaba was less hazardous than cigarettes or alcohol. One has to wonder what drugs this guy is taking on a daily basis to make such a report.

He needs a drug test

[jamesbrock]

Meanwhile, from a very surprising quarter: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/breaking-good-svkvggj2k

Would it ever make sense to jail a chain-smoker for smoking or an alcoholic for touching drink? On the basis that the answer is no, the Royal Society for Public Health (RSPH) is urging the government to decriminalise the personal possession and use of all illegal drugs. This is radical advice, but also sound. Ministers should give it serious consideration.

The Times! I mean, that's almost as surprising as the Thai Justice Minister suggesting something similar!

Edited June 17, 2016 by jamesbrock

[gchurch259]

This guy seems to forget all the crimes and deaths,(Murders) caused by the use of these drugs.

Users should receive treatment, First and Second Time Convicted. Third time if crime involved Death>

Dealer, Death First Conviction.

The World does not need Drug Dealers or Terrorist, a lot of the money for terrorist comes from oil and drug producing countries !!

[Veeke]

He must have gotten his information about the hazards of yaba from the medical council. Only they would give such misinformation saying yaba was less hazardous than cigarettes or alcohol. One has to wonder what drugs this guy is taking on a daily basis to make such a report.

I do enjoy the sarcasm on the medical council - their "fraternity" accord priority to their selfish interests rather than public health or society in general. However, we should not ignore the interventions in support of people already victims of addiction and efforts to rehabilitate them... the suggested policy on ya ba should be seen on this background

[sead]

I LOVE THAILAND and the sudden announcements. The 1 min applying of new rules etc shocks me every morning so i don't need my coffee anymore. And even better i can start use meth instead of coffee.

[nausea]

I would've thought prohibition and alcohol would've given people some idea of how this thing works. You're creating criminals, and criminal networks. I would like to see that wasted money and effort tackling real crime.

[RickTik]

Having a situation where people can come forward for ya ba (meth) medical help without the risk of persecution makes sense.

[Aussie69]

So it's meth?

[happysanook]

Ok Mr. smarty pants minister, and while you at it, deregulate and exclude heroin, cocaine and all other dangers drugs

using the same common sense, and how about excluding all other crimes hoping that the all criminals

will see the error of their ways and become law abiding citizens again.....

Fantastic idea. Drugs being illegal is nothing more than a huge scam. Easy police and law work. Not sure about Thai, but in USA, if drugs were rapidly decriminalized the economy would collapse. Edited June 17, 2016 by happysanook

[happysanook]

I would've thought prohibition and alcohol would've given people some idea of how this thing works. You're creating criminals, and criminal networks. I would like to see that wasted money and effort tackling real crime.

No doubt. That's just for starters.

[NanLaew]

Having a situation where people can come forward for ya ba (meth) medical help without the risk of persecution makes sense.

Only if they admit that they have a problem and come forward for 'medical help without the risk of persecution'. Unfortunately, due to the very nature of the chemical dependency caused by meth, there's not a lot of addicts that see they have a problem. This is the case in the US, Australia and elsewhere where there are government and privately funded initiatives to assist the addicted so it is hard to reason that the Thai addict will buck that trend even if there was a similar 'crutch' network to go to.

Edited June 17, 2016 by NanLaew

[moon47]

He claimed that, in medical science, methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor but the society at large accept cigarettes and liquor as normal.

What... ??

I do not condone alcohol or cigarettes but I have not ever seen an alcoholic or chronic smoker get skin sores loose excessive amounts of weight let alone other forms of poor health caused directly from the abuse of the substance in such a short period of time.

It takes years to get lung or liver problems while a meth binge of only a few weeks will show drastic reduction in health.

Not to mention the "crazy" behavior, they do not call it "ya baa" for nothing you know... !!

I still can not get used to the incredibly stupid comments and actions of supposed "educated" people in this country and others... =[

[DrTuner]

He claimed that, in medical science, methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor but the society at large accept cigarettes and liquor as normal.

What... ??

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness

Cigarettes are however under meth. Take out the cancer causing burn products as in vaping and nicotine is fairly benign.

Edited June 17, 2016 by DrTuner

[mankondang]

He is not advocating legalising amphetamines, ya ba (ya maa), but decriminalization of it, there is a/difference, and possibly some merit in this. However, what is disturbing is that he advocates that it be the court to exercise this discretion. Again something with some merit, if the court applied their decision based on factors that apply equally to each offender.

I suggest the court use medical advise on who can an who can't be rehabilitated... one size does not fit all. Also extenuating factors, such as offenders who reoffend, users not peddlers/suppliers and the offenders who use the dangerous, and easy, practice of converting ya ba into the most dangerous and addictive drug on the planet, ya ice (crystal meth), should be taken into consideration.

Also, as many have stated, the commonThai factor, the iinfluence of family background, etc should be ignored.

All this may be an all too expensive exercise for Thailand.

Many have suggested, with even more merit, IMHO, that this proposal should first apply to softer drugs.

Let's not forget 2003, when heroin use was reduced in Thailand, by what some may, or may not, say was "over the top" means. Yes it reduced the production and use of heroin in Thailand, but increased it, and introduced the production of ya ba and ya ice, in neighbor countries, which left Thailand with the distinguished label of being the main supply route to the rest of the world. This begs the questions, will this proposal further increase this world supply; is it a smokescreen to decrease th cost of running the vast overcrowding of Thai jails; is this experiment worth the risk, as not all research of the results in countries that have adopted it are as positive as others would have us believe.

[GAZZPA]

Drug decriminalization – alongside a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services – has been proven to significantly improve public safety and health.

Of course, I am dubious of Thailand's ability to undertake the critical element of drug decriminalization – namely, a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services.

I'll just leave these here...

• Drug Decriminalisation in Portugal: A Health-Centered Approach: http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
• Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

It's interesting reading for sure. I personally am completely against drugs. However, as much as i want to slam the idea of decriminalising some of them I have to concede that the methods today don't work so something else has to be done.

I think education needs to be as strongly represented as legalising and treatment. Also, lifting the poverty stricken as I believe there is a strong link to poverty and drug abuse.

It's a very difficult problem with many differing opinions.

This guy, maybe right to question how things can be done differently but I have low confidence in the ability for Thailand to do it the right way.

[Rimbuman]

Harmless shisha and vaping illegal and enforced????? Makes your head spin 555.

[DrTuner]

The thing is, they're talking of decriminalizing use of drugs. Not illicit manufacturing of drugs, nor having heroin at 7-11. Former addicts might well be sympathetic to disclosing the pushers, eventually leading to control of substance abuse by introducing legal means of access to the drugs and the attached counseling, which would be funded by the profits from the legal trade. Not that different from the ethanol trade today.

[Dumbastheycome]

I think that his statement is based on changing the focus of criminality to addiction/dependancy. Ya Ba is not a narcotic. Nor are many other "popular" substances of abuse. But by being placed on the "narcotic list" invokes a legal/criminal interpretation which more or less leads to mandatory incarceration.

It is doubtful that anything will change quickly because such a suggestion from the Justice Ministry would automatically require facilities from the Health Ministry to be effectively made available to attempt "rehabilitaion" from that aspect.

Perhaps the proposal is an example of various Ministries attempting to shift the cost burden on audited budgets to another area. Given the historical failure in many countries to control the attraction of substance abuse is a very real fact and the Justice Ministries of each are the repeated final avenue of outcome then his suggestion is valid in that aspect regardless of the fact that medical/pshyc rehab also fails more often than it succeeds.

There is no clear suggestion of decriminalizion but rather a change in social/ justice recognition of a social problem.

Interestingly that ignores ignores the result of many studies that indicate that the criminilization is a factor in the attraction to substance abuse. Coupled with that is the enhanced artificial value which is the base cause of violent criminal acts of dealers more so than the acts of the abuser.

Decriminalization would radically reduce that. Harsh penalties for acts committed by abusers rather than the abuse have been suggested as a better detterent as has been demonstrated with zero alcohol limits when driving or in employment in some countries.

[HenryB]

Does the YA-BA junk kill more people than Rice and Sugar

[pacovl46]

That's exactly the way to go!

[sultan2011]

Great idea! There's plenty of people out there who need help, not imprisonment.

[George Feedback]

It is interesting that Microsoft want in to the now lucrative Ganja business since many US states have decriminalised it....

Drugs are dangerous as is the legal and illegal business behind them.

There is enough death on the roads in Thailand without more drug crazed people roaming he pavements....

[irwinfc]

happiness to the Thai people... restored!

[rijit]

It is interesting that Microsoft want in to the now lucrative Ganja business since many US states have decriminalised it....

Drugs are dangerous as is the legal and illegal business behind them.

There is enough death on the roads in Thailand without more drug crazed people roaming he pavements....

Im all for a rethink on the ridiculous unwinnable war on narcotics, however Im wondering what the criterion for driving with narcotics in your blood stream will be? Difficult one with ganja as apparently it hangs around for weeks.!!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 17, 2016 by rijit

[lucifer666]

He looks like a user himself. His gurning is a sure sign.

[N2it]

Idiots!

[geriatrickid]

Ya Ba is big business and things here are not always what they seem.

I'll leave my comments at that.

I won't. The products pour across Thailand's borders. Who is responsible for protecting the borders of Thailand?

[macksview]

i reckon decriminalise the lot of it.

society is losing the prohibition battle, register adult users, let them buy drugs from accredited providers, but if they sell their dose to minors or operate vehicles under the influence it is a 5-10 in the jail.

criminal networks whom are the biggest winner would start to suffer.

professionally, i have watched members of 2 generations become drug <deleted>, in mind and body.

treatment is the only option.

australia won't do it and thailand have not the structure to do it.

Edited June 18, 2016 by metisdead
8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[farcanell]

<p>Drug decriminalization alongside a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services has been proven to significantly improve public safety and health. Of course, I am dubious of Thailand's ability to undertake the critical element of drug decriminalization namely, a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services. I'll just leave these here...

• Drug Decriminalisation in Portugal: A Health-Centered Approach: http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
• Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

Love your work James.

I think they are on the right track.... As long as any crimes committed, to obtain the funds to buy the drugs, aren't ignored... That's the catch 22