Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs

[dhream]

the worst are those who repeatedly become intoxicated or inebriated on alcohol and don't think it's a drug....asnd don't realise how dangerous it is compared to most illegal drugs.

There are still many people who claim to be "against drugs", yet don't realize or still won't accept that ethanol ("alcohol") is a recreational drug, and a relatively harmful one, moreso than some illegal drugs. It may not entirely be their fault, because school education systems are also partly to blame. When students are taught about drugs, the "just say no" mantra usually refers only to illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Ethanol may not have been included in the list of drugs, and may instead be seen as a drink that students could freely have once they become an adult.

We also often see the separation of alcohol from the "drugs" category with phrases like "drugs and alcohol" or "drugs or alcohol", as if to say that ethanol is not a drug or does not belong in a "drugs" category. Such phrases should not be used because it is misleading. A more accurate phrase to use instead is "drugs including alcohol".

The Singapore government is a major example of people still exhibiting the misperception of ethanol as a non-drug. Here is Singapore's speech at the UNGASS 2016 event in April, where world leaders met to discuss the world drug problem: Singapore Statement at the UNGASS 2016 Plenary Session - Speech by Mr K Shanmugam, Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Law

They say that they "want a drug-free Singapore, not a drug-tolerant Singapore", yet they've just held Beerfest Asia 2016, a 4-day celebration of beer at the Marina Promenade. There was also Craft Singapore in March, a 3-day festival of craft beer. How can they be so openly supportive of ethanol, a relatively harmful drug, whilst claiming to have zero-tolerance to recreational drugs? It's extreme hypocrisy at the country level.

The speech asks this question rhetorically: "You wouldn't knowingly and happily give drugs to your teenage children, would you?" Yet many parents do just that when they buy cola drinks, coffee or chocolate for their children. I guess, like ethanol, they don't regard caffeine as a recreational drug, when it actually is. Whether it's good to give children caffeine is a different matter (I believe it should be left to parents to decide after being informed of the drug's effects, not the state).

As highly-educated as the population of Singapore may be, there isn't even any open discussion and debate about drugs, because there is still a strong stigma against anyone who may appear to be in support of recreational drugs that are not in the small list of recreational drugs (though they don't call them "drugs") that are accepted in mainstream society.

Singapore has even been trying hard to influence other South-East Asian nations to adopt their extremist views ahead of the UNGASS 2016 event by holding an anti-drugs conference in August 2015 "aimed at pushing back the momentum of drug liberalisation policies that more countries and cities have adopted in recent years": S'pore leading Asian meet to stand united against drugs

There's no doubt that Singapore would not be happy to hear the Thai Justice Minister's remarks. I hope Thailand can see the hypocrisy and idiocy of Singapore as I've described above, and distance themselves from their ideologically extremist and conflicting views, and instead base future policy on science and statistics. The References section of the Taking a New Line on Drugs report is an excellent list to explore.

I hope a new era of open discussion and debate in Thailand about drugs will follow on from the Justice Minister's public announcement, leading onto more open-minded and intelligent views of the many complex issues, and eventually a more sensible evolution of drug policy in the near future.

Singapore are pragmatic about Prostitution and gambling and even the (myth) about chewing gum has evolved. -It was never banned, importing it for sale was banned, now you can buy sugarfree gum in pharmacies, which is where all drugs belong, not in dealers grip bags.-

They're obsessed with order, not drugs, but they labour under the discredited thinking that a drug liberalised nation would bring forth chaos.

Again. I point to the Netherlands, Portugal, Czech Republic. They barely ever make the news for any social disorder stories, so much for the social chaos theory.

[hyperdimension]

They're obsessed with order, not drugs, but they labour under the discredited thinking that a drug liberalised nation would bring forth chaos.

Yes, Singapore is obsessed with order (and control), but they are also extremely paranoid about illegal drugs and are stuck with the "just say no" mindset of decades ago, whilst hypocritically embracing ethanol, as I've described earlier. It's utter stupidity, surprisingly in a very highly-educated population.

There's a bit of a recursive loop happening in the country that make it difficult to escape their mindset. Those in positions of authority have never consumed any illegal drugs, so a lot of what they say about illegal drugs is not from personal experience, but just borrowed from other anti-drug propaganda material and re-disseminated to the entire population. Most Singaporeans have not consumed illegal drugs either, so they end up believing whatever they are told about it, and continue to avoid illegal drugs because of the fear brought about by the misleading information and the harsh penalties imposed if they are caught. So the entire population is stuck with misinformation (about things almost nobody in the country has actually ever tried) circulating around the country. There would of course be a minority who have actually consumed illegal drugs (e.g. those who have traveled to Netherlands) and have gained first-hand knowledge and truth about drugs, but they would (sensibly) not publicly announce the fact that much of the information that the Singapore authorities have been spreading about drugs is very wrong. Singapore even does not allow their citizens to consume drugs in other countries:

So the country have ended up getting stuck in this ridiculous situation of laughably incorrect knowledge when it comes to drugs. If that's not embarrassing enough, they even want to impose their wrong views onto other nearby countries.

Here is Singapore's latest silly anti-drug campaign:

There are just two statements in there and both of them are wrong! The informed among us would be aware that different drugs have different addictive potential. e.g. Heroin and nicotine are far more addictive than MDMA. The statement "Escaping is hard" is not correct if they are referring to addiction of all drugs. Some drugs, once you feel addicted to them, are more difficult to give up than others. The two statements do not apply to ethanol, I assume, as the Singapore authorities don't see ethanol as a drug. Yet in reality the statements apply more to ethanol than many of the other illegal drugs.

I had a look at the web site of the Central Narcotics Bureau of the Singapore government. I couldn't find anything on "alcohol":

I then had a look at their ecstasy information page.

• It says "People take them to enable them to dance all night and sometimes they die from exhaustion and dehydration." The reality is that people take it primarily for the euphoria, not for dancing all night. MDMA can actually make your legs feel a bit "wobbly" and unable to dance much (but you can still walk fine). If people wanted to be able to dance all night they'd take methamphetamine ("speed") instead (or in addition) as it's much more effective in making one feel full of energy for hours. There is not one mention of the word "euphoria" or synonyms like "happy", or anything about feeling closer or friendly with others, or enhancement of senses. Anyone who has tried MDMA know that such enjoyable feelings truly are part of the MDMA experience.
• "Effects and Dangers" are lumped together in one section almost as if to say that the dangers have a high chance of occurring, when in fact the risk of the listed dangers are very low. One on the list is "Jaw clenching, teeth grinding and uncontrollable shaking". Yes, there can be "Jaw clenching, teeth grinding" but the "uncontrollable shaking", if it's listed as an effect like the "Jaw clenching, teeth grinding", is just totally wrong. There is no such effect when experiencing MDMA. If they mean to list "uncontrollable shaking" as a danger, I don't know where they got that from because I've never heard of it as being a danger of MDMA.
• It says "Kidney, liver and brain damage" and "Long term memory loss" with absolutely no reference to any scientific studies. This is just scare-mongering.
• "Inability to think, see and co-ordinate properly" is mostly wrong. Someone who consumes a normal dose can still think, see and co-ordinate properly. This is also just scare-mongering.

It is obvious to me that whoever wrote the ecstasy "fact" sheet had never tried MDMA and is simply regurgitating false propaganda and / or making things up with no references provided. Realize again that this is information provided officially by the Singapore government.

A problem with informing the public of only the potentially negative effects is that when someone does try it and realizes how amazing it feels, they realize that they were lied to when they had been presented with a supposed "fact" sheet about the drug that they had consumed. This then breeds mistrust of whoever had provided the information, whether it be parents, teachers, or the government.

Here is some more unscientific scare-mongering that is taught to children:

Source:

This is how Singapore teaches children to stay away from drugs

I discovered the truth about Singapore's 'war on drugs'. Now I campaign against the death penalty

Note also that there is no mention of alcohol.

Singapore are in their own little supposedly utopian world. It reminds me of the film "The Truman Show". I hope the Thai authorities realize how ridiculous Singapore's drug policy is. I strongly urge them not to follow Singapore's example and instead use science and statistics, with focus on harm reduction and factual education, in their policy decision-making, without influence of politics and vested interests.

Edited June 21, 2016 by hyperdimension

[oldsailor35]

Th

ank goodness that at the age of 80 i am not much longer for this world. Back in the 50's when i was a teenager, we did not have to resort to drugs apart from alcohol to enjoy our lives, nowadays it seems that the young cannot enjoy life without habit forming drugs.

[cumgranosalum]

Th

ank goodness that at the age of 80 i am not much longer for this world. Back in the 50's when i was a teenager, we did not have to resort to drugs apart from alcohol to enjoy our lives, nowadays it seems that the young cannot enjoy life without habit forming drugs.

I think assuming that one's personal experience is representative of what was going on then is rather foolhardy as one is almost certainly going to get a distorted view.

Whereas drug abuse was not so general - of course alcohol was - but in fact most drug users then could follow their habits quite openly as neither police not public actually had any idea of what was going on...also glue sniffing and other common household substances were freely available.........

up and coming drugs in the 50s were heroin, cocaine and cannabis, with doctors prescribing morphine and heroine - dentists supplying cocaine.

...and don't forget the film "man with the Golden Arm" Frank Sinatra

Furthermore many people were taking all sorts of "medications" diet pills, opium tinctures, and thalidomide because they actually thought they were healthy.

and of course underage drinking was the norm in many pubs......

Edited June 25, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Snig27]

Th

ank goodness that at the age of 80 i am not much longer for this world. Back in the 50's when i was a teenager, we did not have to resort to drugs apart from alcohol to enjoy our lives, nowadays it seems that the young cannot enjoy life without habit forming drugs.

Habit forming drugs were a massive part of city life in the 40s-80s. American cities were awash with heroin, cocaine, speed ... and alcohol.