Interesting driving with another foreigner

[JAFO]

Today I had a customer visiting from a company in the US. I took him to lunch versus the the typical Van service. So we hopped in my vehicle and took off. No more then 5 minutes in he starts saying how crazy people drive here. I just started laughing. I said you are just like the Mob on TVF (I had to explain about this forum). Clearly what I am learning is the varying thresholds and gauges people have of others driving. Nothing anyone did while I was driving us to lunch was out of bounds. Different maybe, but not outlandish. I asked him what was so crazy, he didn't really have a hard incident to point out.

What I have found over my driving years here is that a huge amount of anxiousness and whinging about Thai driving is directly related to the foreigner driver and his/her expectations and driving competency. I have met many that if someone even gets close to a line they react with a OH MY GOD!!!. In many cases a great majority of people are nervous to drive in their own country let alone a foreign country thus they are hyper sensitive to others and again whinge they are all a bunch of crazy lunatics.

In fairness I am a motorsports enthusiast and have raced cars, motorcycles and trucks. Nothing here in Thailand makes me even flinch. In some cases I laugh and say "Sheit why didn't I think of that move".

[dddave]

I find Western drivers far more "territorial" than Thais in terms of what space in front of their vehicle they consider to be theirs and that anybody who encroaches into that space is "Cutting them off." Thais seem to be less possessive of the space around their cars.

Of course, there have been exceptions and shootings have occurred over a horn toot or a light flash....or just a look.

[KMartinHandyman]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

[cumgranosalum]

OP - i totally agree with what you say...........

I can predict now that you will get anecdotes of instances that foreigners consider demonstrate their own superiority over the "stupid Thai drivers".

[JAFO]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

So you are saying only Thais take up that "Margin of Safety" you speak of when driving and that's why they are ranked #2 in the world for Road fatalities?.......Please.......

Drive anywhere in the world. If you are one of those drivers that drives 1 car length for every MPH/KmH of speed people will fill that gap in a heartbeat. That's like saying people who drive with their hands at 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel are safer drivers. Nonsense.

[JAFO]

I find Western drivers far more "territorial" than Thais in terms of what space in front of their vehicle they consider to be theirs and that anybody who encroaches into that space is "Cutting them off." Thais seem to be less possessive of the space around their cars.

Of course, there have been exceptions and shootings have occurred over a horn toot or a light flash....or just a look.

I absolutely agree dddave. In US drivers tend to behave like they own the road and insist you stay out of their perceived comfort zone or they become very agitated when you encroach on it. I also find that Thai drivers handle roads without lines way better than US drivers. You leave a blank blacktop in the US and its almost utter chaos.

[pgrahmm]

Not sure where in the US he came from....Some people in some areas there are territorial & will force you off while watching out of the corner of their eyes - others will outright challenge you with a stare - then drive you right out of your lane - a hostile lane take over.....But it's not a freestyle as here......Merging & other "western" habits are not the same here.....

And that does vary from state to state back there.....

Odds are he'd never seen the huge amount of scooter riders before you drove him.....Darting around - which is the biggest change here that I've noticed over the years.....

Thailand's pretty easy to drive in.....Especially if you've been driving in worse countries before coming here....

But it can be frustrating on any given day......

If you had him riding shotgun it was probably a huge system shock for him sitting where he's use to having the control.....

[manarak]

lol

my mother uses to get angry with people "cutting her off"... but their vehicle is way faster.

[JAFO]

Not sure where in the US he came from....Some people in some areas there are territorial & will force you off while watching out of the corner of their eyes - others will outright challenge you with a stare - then drive you right out of your lane - a hostile lane take over.....But it's not a freestyle as here......Merging & other "western" habits are not the same here.....

And that does vary from state to state back there.....

Odds are he'd never seen the huge amount of scooter riders before you drove him.....Darting around - which is the biggest change here that I've noticed over the years.....

Thailand's pretty easy to drive in.....Especially if you've been driving in worse countries before coming here....

But it can be frustrating on any given day......

If you had him riding shotgun it was probably a huge system shock for him sitting where he's use to having the control.....

True Pgramm. Albeit we did not see many scooters. what he saw was a car go around a big truck on the left shoulder. Of course in the states that just isn't supposed to ever happen but here its a common occurrence, in fact I have been known to do it on occasion. Me being from the heart of California driving every day in horrendous traffic then when it opens up they all go 80mph 1 car length behind the other moving here was a breath of fresh air. Its why you read about multiple car pile ups frequently in the US. People just don't get it and drive way outside their capability. This why I had stated in another thread, many factors have to be considered when posters come on here and say Thais are terrible drivers. it really boils down to the foreigner driver, where they came from, their competency, their age, their driving history and skill etc etc.

I think I said if you came from Montana or Nebraska and were a slow driver, comfortable with no one around you, then Thailand could be viewed as a mad house, but if you came from California, New York or Florida (or any other highly populated area,Thailand is easy.

[cumgranosalum]

Not sure where in the US he came from....Some people in some areas there are territorial & will force you off while watching out of the corner of their eyes - others will outright challenge you with a stare - then drive you right out of your lane - a hostile lane take over.....But it's not a freestyle as here......Merging & other "western" habits are not the same here.....

And that does vary from state to state back there.....

Odds are he'd never seen the huge amount of scooter riders before you drove him.....Darting around - which is the biggest change here that I've noticed over the years.....

Thailand's pretty easy to drive in.....Especially if you've been driving in worse countries before coming here....

But it can be frustrating on any given day......

If you had him riding shotgun it was probably a huge system shock for him sitting where he's use to having the control.....

True Pgramm. Albeit we did not see many scooters. what he saw was a car go around a big truck on the left shoulder. Of course in the states that just isn't supposed to ever happen but here its a common occurrence, in fact I have been known to do it on occasion. Me being from the heart of California driving every day in horrendous traffic then when it opens up they all go 80mph 1 car length behind the other moving here was a breath of fresh air. Its why you read about multiple car pile ups frequently in the US. People just don't get it and drive way outside their capability. This why I had stated in another thread, many factors have to be considered when posters come on here and say Thais are terrible drivers. it really boils down to the foreigner driver, where they came from, their competency, their age, their driving history and skill etc etc.

I think I said if you came from Montana or Nebraska and were a slow driver, comfortable with no one around you, then Thailand could be viewed as a mad house, but if you came from California, New York or Florida (or any other highly populated area,Thailand is easy.

For a country that has idolised the car for a century, the death rate in the US is pretty appalling......

[JAFO]

Not sure where in the US he came from....Some people in some areas there are territorial & will force you off while watching out of the corner of their eyes - others will outright challenge you with a stare - then drive you right out of your lane - a hostile lane take over.....But it's not a freestyle as here......Merging & other "western" habits are not the same here.....

And that does vary from state to state back there.....

Odds are he'd never seen the huge amount of scooter riders before you drove him.....Darting around - which is the biggest change here that I've noticed over the years.....

Thailand's pretty easy to drive in.....Especially if you've been driving in worse countries before coming here....

But it can be frustrating on any given day......

If you had him riding shotgun it was probably a huge system shock for him sitting where he's use to having the control.....

True Pgramm. Albeit we did not see many scooters. what he saw was a car go around a big truck on the left shoulder. Of course in the states that just isn't supposed to ever happen but here its a common occurrence, in fact I have been known to do it on occasion. Me being from the heart of California driving every day in horrendous traffic then when it opens up they all go 80mph 1 car length behind the other moving here was a breath of fresh air. Its why you read about multiple car pile ups frequently in the US. People just don't get it and drive way outside their capability. This why I had stated in another thread, many factors have to be considered when posters come on here and say Thais are terrible drivers. it really boils down to the foreigner driver, where they came from, their competency, their age, their driving history and skill etc etc.

I think I said if you came from Montana or Nebraska and were a slow driver, comfortable with no one around you, then Thailand could be viewed as a mad house, but if you came from California, New York or Florida (or any other highly populated area,Thailand is easy.

For a country that has idolised the car for a century, the death rate in the US is pretty appalling......

It really is and as I mentioned before its sad that the biggest selling point is the safety rating of the car. I'm telling you people get new cars and go into work and brag about all the safety features and electronic controls the car has. What happened to horsepower and eye ball flattening acceleration. I mean who gives a rats a DELETED if the car deploys 75 airbags if struck by another car at a stop light. People should drive with a little fear. Keeps them honest. Lord, its scary what cars control now. auto braking, auto parallel parking, distance warnings. People are becoming brain dead gnomes behind the wheel and they get in these cars, close the doors and figure no problem, they have the safest car on the market based on some biased JD powers rating.

[pgrahmm]

Many years ago I went to the land down under.....

I'd only driven a left hand drive before.....Luggage loaded up & they put me shotgun - going in the opposite direction than I was used to, looking the wrong ways to check/merge traffic......I was going the "wrong way" down roads I didn't know, turning in the wrong directions from what I was used to & found myself hitting the brake pedal - that I didn't have - all the time.......

99.9% of the time I'm the driver.....That was a tough white knuckled ride for me.....

It got easy after that but I'll never forget that one ride.....

Sitting in the seat I was used to controlling a car from - with no control......

[Gary A]

Thai drivers are no different than farang drivers, some are good and some are bad. There is one exception. If you see a young person driving a car with a red plate, watch them closely. It will usually be a rich kid with no experience driving a new car.

[tandor]

Not sure where in the US he came from....Some people in some areas there are territorial & will force you off while watching out of the corner of their eyes - others will outright challenge you with a stare - then drive you right out of your lane - a hostile lane take over.....But it's not a freestyle as here......Merging & other "western" habits are not the same here.....

And that does vary from state to state back there.....

Odds are he'd never seen the huge amount of scooter riders before you drove him.....Darting around - which is the biggest change here that I've noticed over the years.....

Thailand's pretty easy to drive in.....Especially if you've been driving in worse countries before coming here....

But it can be frustrating on any given day......

If you had him riding shotgun it was probably a huge system shock for him sitting where he's use to having the control.....

...I must say I am a poor passenger..my brake pedals missing..as I go through the motions..turning my head as if steering as well..haha...funny reactions.

[bearpolar]

Thai drivers are no different than farang drivers, some are good and some are bad. There is one exception. If you see a young person driving a car with a red plate, watch them closely. It will usually be a rich kid with no experience driving a new car.

yet back home i have never seen anyone turning over a line, especially with traffic coming in at 80+ with no space to move away from an impending face to face crash.

While here, everytime i take the underpass in phuket or a minimal turn in one of the main street there is a 100% of the time someone completely over the line and by that i mean 1 full wheel or the full car

Back home i have never seen someone do a 45 degree turn on a street corner when there's a super deep pothole

here i have never seen anyone do a 90 degree turn when there's a pothole or someone standing there. They simply do a 45 degree turn, break and go slow or wait for the object/person to move.

Some are good, some are bad but back home most of these bad drivers would be riding the bus or stuck in government housing watching jerry springer and eating chef boyarde pasta, not driving.

It's way too easy to get on the road here.

My worst time in this underpass, a few weeks ago i was getting inside going maybe 60kph in the left lane(2 lane this way) someone coming in at the same speed in the right lane just turned into me as the lines in front of the underpass all cross

then i move to the right and stay above the speed of others while hugging the left line. Right away i have a food ranger completely in my lane, i honk he doesnt move i have to push into the left lane and people have to break to let me in

i move back right and about 5 secs after i have 3 cars(1 taxi) with 50% of their car in my lane, i honk only 1 moves again i have to move rapidly in the left lane and make people break as i had to slow down to not get a direct face to face hit

then as the underpass finishes i move back right and what do i get? 2 motorbike doing a u-turn through a barrier, very slowly while im coming in fast and there's 3 other lanes coming in fast.(keep in mind that about 80m in front there,s a safe u-turn above the underpass with no incoming traffic)

Usually it's a lot less worse but you get the picture, you don't get that kind of stuff back home.. the people who almost killed me would not be able to afford a car or get a licence back home, Thais arent more stupid they just have a way too low barrier of entry on the road.

I know this girl in one of these crappy brio/march type car, she drove in the wrong lane with red x's and when told she said she doesnt know that it means you can't drive in, the cars flashing their light and coming full speed into her face wasn't enough either. Back home she'd be working the walmart walking with a subsidized bus pass

[giddyup]

bearpolar

...and yet we still hear from the same old apologists that it's just as safe driving here as anywhere else, and Thai drivers are good and bad same as anywhere. You just have to learn to "adjust" to their quirky little ways.

[Don Mega]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

So you are saying only Thais take up that "Margin of Safety" you speak of when driving and that's why they are ranked #2 in the world for Road fatalities?.......Please.......

Drive anywhere in the world. If you are one of those drivers that drives 1 car length for every MPH/KmH of speed people will fill that gap in a heartbeat. That's like saying people who drive with their hands at 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel are safer drivers. Nonsense.

10 and 2 has been discovered to be bad, 9 and 3 is the shizzle these days.

[Happy Grumpy]

Sounds like he was simply making conversation.

So many posters really do come across as neurotics.

[giddyup]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

So you are saying only Thais take up that "Margin of Safety" you speak of when driving and that's why they are ranked #2 in the world for Road fatalities?.......Please.......

Drive anywhere in the world. If you are one of those drivers that drives 1 car length for every MPH/KmH of speed people will fill that gap in a heartbeat. That's like saying people who drive with their hands at 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel are safer drivers. Nonsense.

10 and 2 has been discovered to be bad, 9 and 3 is the shizzle these days.

What about one arm draped over the steering wheel, the other propped up by the elbow on the window sill?

[Don Mega]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

So you are saying only Thais take up that "Margin of Safety" you speak of when driving and that's why they are ranked #2 in the world for Road fatalities?.......Please.......

Drive anywhere in the world. If you are one of those drivers that drives 1 car length for every MPH/KmH of speed people will fill that gap in a heartbeat. That's like saying people who drive with their hands at 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel are safer drivers. Nonsense.

10 and 2 has been discovered to be bad, 9 and 3 is the shizzle these days.

What about one arm draped over the steering wheel, the other propped up by the elbow on the window sill?

That is my preferred position Giddyup. With the seat reclined.

[pgrahmm]

It's called being sensitive to someone removing the space in front of you that is purposely left as a margin of safety. That is the way driving is taught and conducted in many countries who are not ranked number two in the world for the highest number of road fatalities.

So you are saying only Thais take up that "Margin of Safety" you speak of when driving and that's why they are ranked #2 in the world for Road fatalities?.......Please.......

Drive anywhere in the world. If you are one of those drivers that drives 1 car length for every MPH/KmH of speed people will fill that gap in a heartbeat. That's like saying people who drive with their hands at 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel are safer drivers. Nonsense.

10 and 2 has been discovered to be bad, 9 and 3 is the shizzle these days.

What about one arm draped over the steering wheel, the other propped up by the elbow on the window sill?

The sill propped arm is reserved for cell phone use....

[Robert24]

Recommend your customer to visit some other countries in Asia and he will find driving in Thailand quite ok.

[cumgranosalum]

Thai drivers are no different than farang drivers, some are good and some are bad. There is one exception. If you see a young person driving a car with a red plate, watch them closely. It will usually be a rich kid with no experience driving a new car.

yet back home i have never seen anyone turning over a line, especially with traffic coming in at 80+ with no space to move away from an impending face to face crash.

While here, everytime i take the underpass in phuket or a minimal turn in one of the main street there is a 100% of the time someone completely over the line and by that i mean 1 full wheel or the full car

Back home i have never seen someone do a 45 degree turn on a street corner when there's a super deep pothole

here i have never seen anyone do a 90 degree turn when there's a pothole or someone standing there. They simply do a 45 degree turn, break and go slow or wait for the object/person to move.

Some are good, some are bad but back home most of these bad drivers would be riding the bus or stuck in government housing watching jerry springer and eating chef boyarde pasta, not driving.

It's way too easy to get on the road here.

My worst time in this underpass, a few weeks ago i was getting inside going maybe 60kph in the left lane(2 lane this way) someone coming in at the same speed in the right lane just turned into me as the lines in front of the underpass all cross

then i move to the right and stay above the speed of others while hugging the left line. Right away i have a food ranger completely in my lane, i honk he doesnt move i have to push into the left lane and people have to break to let me in

i move back right and about 5 secs after i have 3 cars(1 taxi) with 50% of their car in my lane, i honk only 1 moves again i have to move rapidly in the left lane and make people break as i had to slow down to not get a direct face to face hit

then as the underpass finishes i move back right and what do i get? 2 motorbike doing a u-turn through a barrier, very slowly while im coming in fast and there's 3 other lanes coming in fast.(keep in mind that about 80m in front there,s a safe u-turn above the underpass with no incoming traffic)

Usually it's a lot less worse but you get the picture, you don't get that kind of stuff back home.. the people who almost killed me would not be able to afford a car or get a licence back home, Thais arent more stupid they just have a way too low barrier of entry on the road.

I know this girl in one of these crappy brio/march type car, she drove in the wrong lane with red x's and when told she said she doesnt know that it means you can't drive in, the cars flashing their light and coming full speed into her face wasn't enough either. Back home she'd be working the walmart walking with a subsidized bus pass

all this says to me is that you aren't a very good driver.....and certainly don't understand the topic.

[bearpolar]

Recommend your customer to visit some other countries in Asia and he will find driving in Thailand quite ok.

DELETED

One idiot on the road is one idiot too many, which is why i love the hardcore enforcing we have in Canada and am against whatever they do in the US that allows people with DUI's to get back on the road.

Thailand's lack of road rules and the easy licence is the only thing i loath about this country everything else i love or can deal with.

[giddyup]

Recommend your customer to visit some other countries in Asia and he will find driving in Thailand quite ok.

That's like saying hitting your thumb once with a hammer isn't as bad as hitting it twice.

[Broken Record]

bearpolar

...and yet we still hear from the same old apologists that it's just as safe driving here as anywhere else, and Thai drivers are good and bad same as anywhere. You just have to learn to "adjust" to their quirky little ways.

Yes, you do have to learn to Adapt, other than not driving at all what alternative is there ?

[cumgranosalum]

Anyone who thinks there is a single magic solution to the problems of road safety in Thailand whether they think all other drivers are idiots or that enforcement is the final answer, are barking up the wrong tree - you need a fully comprehensive approach - (holistic if you like) and then you will make some progress. Most of the criticisms I see on this site are form people who clearly don't understand the issues and probably can't drive very well themselves - they just assume that because they either had no accidents or the one they had were "someone else's fault"they must be superb drivers themselves.

[pgrahmm]

It takes a couple of years for a farang to "adjust" to Thai driving....

IF they've figured it out & are bright enough....

Otherwise they bitch/post here about other people/drivers.....

They somehow feel bigger & better for it......

People being people.....Which they don't allow for others away from themselves.....

Superior beings that they believe that they really are.....

[giddyup]

It takes a couple of years for a farang to "adjust" to Thai driving....

IF they've figured it out & are bright enough....

Otherwise they bitch/post here about other people/drivers.....

They somehow feel bigger & better for it......

People being people.....Which they don't allow for others away from themselves.....

Superior beings that they believe that they really are.....

No, they are just telling it like it is. Nothing to do with being superior.

[cumgranosalum]

It takes a couple of years for a farang to "adjust" to Thai driving....

Really? and what is the basis for that statement?