Russian athletes remain banned from Rio Olympics

[stevenl]

this is not about meldonium but about systematic, state organised doping programmes, just as they in the past were carried out by the DDR.

What do you mean?

Almost all of those media breaking "Russia doping" were related to meldonium only.

All olympics, Sharapova case etc

That's why I considering it as too overhyped

Some particular bastards who use something heavier are taking responsibility just like anybody else in any other country, that's just fine and nobody are defending them. But most ru doping cases were about meldonium, and not "systematical usage of something heavier".

I mean what I said.

If you leave your own opinions for a moment and just read you'll understand

[mopar71]

Well at least there will a bunch of medals up for grabs for other lesser athletes that wouldn't have won otherwise.

Banning countries from the Olympics feels like the cold war again, remember that full participation Olympics before just wasn't the same.

Not endorsing doping but such a blanket ban seems more likely political. And so it goes on....

Russia isn't banned from the Olympics, only their Track & Field team from what I understand.

Well deserved punishment, Next step is to start taking away medals won in London and probably Beijing as well.

[AlexStepashkin]

I mean what I said.

If you leave your own opinions for a moment and just read you'll understand

Read what? Another "Oh no, russia disasterous doping case?", where in reality 9 of 10 recent cases are about unexpected ban of meldonium?

Yeah, I prefer reading all sources together to collect a little more objective understanding on the subject, than baseless whining about 100% of russian athletes "heavily doped".

It's a shame that some sportsman choosed doping path. It's something that nobody (but those particular sportsman and their trainers) actually wanted. But it's not fair to create "russia is all about doping" image from it. Now such baseless associations happens in any sport and russia related event.

Edited June 18, 2016 by AlexStepashkin

[impulse]

Russia isn't banned from the Olympics, only their Track & Field team from what I understand.

Well deserved punishment, Next step is to start taking away medals won in London and probably Beijing as well.

That's a good next step, but it won't claw back the $$ millions in endorsement and sponsorship money that went into the wrong hands in the years since those events.

[stevenl]

I mean what I said.

If you leave your own opinions for a moment and just read you'll understand

Read what? Another "Oh no, russia disasterous doping case?", where in reality 9 of 10 recent cases are about unexpected ban of meldonium?

Yeah, I prefer reading all sources together to collect a little more objective understanding on the subject, than baseless whining about 100% of russian athletes "heavily doped".

It's a shame that some sportsman choosed doping path. It's something that nobody (but those particular sportsman and their trainers) actually wanted. But it's not fair to create "russia is all about doping" image from it. Now such baseless associations happens in any sport and russia related event.

There was a state organised doping programme.

I am waiting BTW for your reply on the content in stead of deflecting/defending, which your posts are so far.

Edited June 18, 2016 by stevenl

[rijit]

^^^^ mate its the same old same old from the Russians ' it ain't us.and there ain't really a problem, it's political' reading that the investigators were threatened imo alone warranted a ban,, so tbh, fuc them and their homophobic bigoted violent redneck culture, my empathy with them is exhausted.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 18, 2016 by rijit

[mopar71]

Just a reminder of how we got here...

Russia doping scandal: 5 of the most shocking allegations

1. Secret police inside the anti-doping laboratory

2. Hundreds of samples destroyed before key inspection

3. Bribes and extortion

4. Intimidation of doping testers

5. Use of false identities to dodge tests

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/10/sport/russia-doping-report-shocking-things/

and

Whistleblowers Yuliya and Vitaly Stepanov describe Russia's sports doping system

The WADA commission's investigation didn't begin until December 2014, and only after the Stepanovs went public in a sensational German documentary about their allegations.

Involved in that cheating were coaches, officials, athletes' entourages, medical professionals and the state, as well as the athletes themselves.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/stepanov-doping-the-national-1.3402916

[thaihome]

this is not about meldonium but about systematic, state organised doping programmes, just as they in the past were carried out by the DDR.

What do you mean?

Almost all of those media breaking "Russia doping" were related to meldonium only.

All olympics, Sharapova case etc

That's why I considering it as too overhyped

Some particular bastards who use something heavier are taking responsibility just like anybody else in any other country, that's just fine and nobody are defending them. But most ru doping cases were about meldonium, and not "systematical usage of something heavier".

I think you are mixing this case with Maria Sharapova's banning due to meldonium. The Russian track and field team involves steroids :

"They included three anabolic steroids - lab-produced variations of the male sex hormone testosterone and given names like "juice," "roids," or "stackers" in the US - dissolved in either whiskey (for men) or vermouth (for women):

Metenolone, which animal studies suggest boosts muscle mass and allows for a bigger output of "maximum force." But it has been linked to serious health risks in people, from acne to infertility;

Trenbolone, which is usedon livestock to ramp up muscle growth and boost appetite. It is classified as a Schedule III substance (a drug with the "potential for abuse") by the Drug Enforcement Administration;

Oxandrolone, which is currently used in hospital settings to help patients gain weight after an injury or illness but has been linked with severe liver and spleen damage."

http://www.businessinsider.com/drugs-used-in-russian-doping-scandal-2016-6

TH

[AlexStepashkin]

Thanks for separating meldonium thing and athletes ban. I got some background on steroid thing about athletes.

Looks like it's backed with nothing, but a story from Yulia Stepanova and her husband, Vitaliy, retired RUSADA employee. A story, which was told to ARD journalist, who blasted media with "russia doping" theme. A story. Told story. It's strange that it was considered as a undeniable proof by IAAF.

It's also looks funny if you think about any official games procedure, where athletes must do re-test for doping on the place (that's making all this "doping proof mass destroying" theory not so undoubtful as media positioning it).

Anyway, I still find it strange to not allow "clean" athletes participate the game by their flag. Even if we imagine that doping thing exists, most of athletes must be clean. There never was such precedent, when several doping athletes results in a whole team disqualification, from totally different cities of a country.

Edited June 21, 2016 by AlexStepashkin

[stevenl]

Thanks for separating meldonium thing and athletes ban. I got some background on steroid thing about athletes.

Looks like it's backed with nothing, but a story from Yulia Stepanova and her husband, Vitaliy, retired RUSADA employee. A story, which was told to ARD journalist, who blasted media with "russia doping" theme. A story. Told story. It's strange that it was considered as a undeniable proof by IAAF.

It's also looks funny if you think about any official games procedure, where athletes must do re-test for doping on the place (that's making all this "doping proof mass destroying" theory not so undoubtful as media positioning it).

Anyway, I still find it strange to not allow "clean" athletes participate the game by their flag. Even if we imagine that doping thing exists, most of athletes must be clean. There never was such precedent, when several doping athletes results in a whole team disqualification, from totally different cities of a country.

It's backed by much more, see earlier post.

If was and is a state organised doping programme, so the state is banned.

Proven clean athletes can enter under their flag.

[AlexStepashkin]

Thanks for separating meldonium thing and athletes ban. I got some background on steroid thing about athletes.

Looks like it's backed with nothing, but a story from Yulia Stepanova and her husband, Vitaliy, retired RUSADA employee. A story, which was told to ARD journalist, who blasted media with "russia doping" theme. A story. Told story. It's strange that it was considered as a undeniable proof by IAAF.

It's also looks funny if you think about any official games procedure, where athletes must do re-test for doping on the place (that's making all this "doping proof mass destroying" theory not so undoubtful as media positioning it).

Anyway, I still find it strange to not allow "clean" athletes participate the game by their flag. Even if we imagine that doping thing exists, most of athletes must be clean. There never was such precedent, when several doping athletes results in a whole team disqualification, from totally different cities of a country.

It's backed by much more, see earlier post.

If was and is a state organised doping programme, so the state is banned.

Proven clean athletes can enter under their flag.

It's backed with multiple accusations and describing of multiple violations... which are backed on someone's story, nothing more. At least I can't find end-point source of those accusations, but WADA verdict and ARD articles (and it's reposts by other media).

Athletes wants to represent their country, not other/neutral.

Edited June 22, 2016 by AlexStepashkin

[rijit]

^^ no supposition, all backed by what official investigators found.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AlexStepashkin]

^^ no supposition, all backed by what official investigators found.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would be good idea to add full chronology with data that undoubful points to this.

[mopar71]

If these are just "stories" or accusations, why has Russia apologized?...

Russian sports minister apologizes over doping, pleads for Rio entry: Sunday Times

Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko has issued a plea for Russia's athletes to be allowed to compete in the Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games and apologized for the "deceptive" sportsmen caught doping in the past in an article he wrote for Britain's Sunday Times.

"Serious mistakes have been made by the federation management, along with athletes and coaches... We are ashamed of them," Mutko said in his strongest comments over the doping scandal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sport-doping-russia-minister-idUSKCN0Y60BL

[neverdie]

RAIFLAO !

[stevenl]

*Removed posts edited out*

So far you have shown to have no knowledge on the subject, but still have managed to find the information that backs your opinion 'we're being framed'. I suggest you look better, and you'll find your assumption is incorrect. You're not being framed, Russia has been running an organised doping scheme.

[AlexStepashkin]

*Removed posts edited out*

So far you have shown to have no knowledge on the subject, but still have managed to find the information that backs your opinion 'we're being framed'. I suggest you look better, and you'll find your assumption is incorrect. You're not being framed, Russia has been running an organised doping scheme.

I'm not talking about meldonium (L-carnitine analogue) cases, or some particular cases where doping was found (minority of them).

I also never said that Russia is being framed.

I'm asking about material backing ARD investigations that leaded to WADA/IAAF mass ban.

Also I couldn't find any solid evidence about "state sponsored well organized countrywide" doping scheme the way you're describing it, so I'm considering this as a overstatement.

Edited June 26, 2016 by AlexStepashkin

[stevenl]

*Removed posts edited out*

So far you have shown to have no knowledge on the subject, but still have managed to find the information that backs your opinion 'we're being framed'. I suggest you look better, and you'll find your assumption is incorrect. You're not being framed, Russia has been running an organised doping scheme.

I'm not talking about meldonium (L-carnitine analogue) cases, or some particular cases where doping was found (minority of them).

I also never said that Russia is being framed.

I'm asking about material backing ARD investigations that leaded to WADA/IAAF mass ban.

Also I couldn't find any solid evidence about "state sponsored well organized countrywide" doping scheme the way you're describing it, so I'm considering this as a overstatement.

The only one talking about meldoniym is you, just as in the previous thread.

No, I'm not doing the work for you, do your own research. Many English language news websites about this.