Thai History Question

[thaibebop]

Has anyone ever encountred stories of Japanese crimes against civilans in Thailand during WWII? There are stories of these things from China to the Philippines but I have never heard anything concerning SEA or Thailand. I know Thailand wasn't occupied the way other nations were but the Japanese were still there.

[lanny]

I don't recall seeing much about such crimes. However, if you read the history of the "Death Railroad" you will see that it was not just the English and Australian prisoners of war that suffered. The labor camps contained thousands of Thais in conditions like those of the war prisoners. I don't know if I have ever seen any figures on the numbers of Thais who died, though. I understand that many did die but maybe nobode bothered to count?

[chuck6660]

Has anyone ever encountred stories of Japanese crimes against civilans in Thailand during WWII? There are stories of these things from China to the Philippines but I have never heard anything concerning SEA or Thailand. I know Thailand wasn't occupied the way other nations were but the Japanese were still there.

I am not sure of the details, but my wife tells me that her mother, as a very young child was made sick my Japansee experiments. From what I ascertain the village in Issan that my wifes Mother and grandmother lived was contaminated with some type of biological weapon. Whatever was used caused sickness and left pock-marks on their faces.

This could have been biological warfare experiments by the Japense forces or a natural occuring epidemic, not sure.

[pap]

Interesting question. I would assume a large number since technically the problem in the South of today stems from Southern Thais fighting the Japanese. In effect this was to get a Kingdom as promised by the Allies.

So some Thais were fighting them. Therefore there had to be some prisoners from this fighting. The border regions in the South were pretty lose. Interesting.

[pap]

You may want to try contacting the Jeath War Museum

Wisuttharangsi Road, near the TAT office.

Open daily from 8.30am to 4.30pm.

They may have some info. http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/tha...nchanaburi.html Says 90,000 Asian laborers died on construction of the Railroad but does not give nationality.

[steveromagnino]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

[pap]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

There was also apparently a Thai guerrilla movement against the Japanese other than the South but I can't seem to find much about it. To bad.

[lannarebirth]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

There was also apparently a Thai guerrilla movement against the Japanese other than the South but I can't seem to find much about it. To bad.

You may be thinking of the Seri Thai movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

[thaibebop]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

There was also apparently a Thai guerrilla movement against the Japanese other than the South but I can't seem to find much about it. To bad.

You may be thinking of the Seri Thai movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

Great link, thanks!

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

And Pridi has become even more interesting to him, Hero or Villian, what do you think?

[thaibebop]

You may want to try contacting the Jeath War Museum

Wisuttharangsi Road, near the TAT office.

Open daily from 8.30am to 4.30pm.

They may have some info. http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/tha...nchanaburi.html Says 90,000 Asian laborers died on construction of the Railroad but does not give nationality.

Thanks for that. I can add these to the list of things to see one day.

[lannarebirth]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

There was also apparently a Thai guerrilla movement against the Japanese other than the South but I can't seem to find much about it. To bad.

You may be thinking of the Seri Thai movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

Great link, thanks!

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

And Pridi has become even more interesting to him, Hero or Villian, what do you think?

I say hero, but way ahead of his time. He tried to institute changes too radical for the time.

[thaibebop]

Some of the deaths on the Burmese line were Thai, and even though theoretically allies, some Thais (including my girlfriend's family) had land confiscated so that the Japanese would have some place nice to stay.

But nothing on the scale of Manchuria AFAIK.

There was also apparently a Thai guerrilla movement against the Japanese other than the South but I can't seem to find much about it. To bad.

You may be thinking of the Seri Thai movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

Great link, thanks!

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

And Pridi has become even more interesting to him, Hero or Villian, what do you think?

I say hero, but way ahead of his time. He tried to institute changes too radical for the time.

It seems that way expect for the royal death which makes me wonder if he was involved and trying to hold on to power at any cost.

[London Crocodile]

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

If this upset you then you must not have read up on much history, try looking in to the American (secret) war on Laos, the civilian population became the target for more than two million tons of bombs.

This was the most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history.

[thaibebop]

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

If this upset you then you must not have read up on much history, try looking in to the American (secret) war on Laos, the civilian population became the target for more than two million tons of bombs.

This was the most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history.

Is this in regards to WWII or Vietnam? Also, please forgive me as I am a little paranoid and worn out, but why are you making a connection with this to bombings in Laos and bring up America? While I am interested in history ( of any kind and in any light) I am not up for bashing.

[pap]

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

If this upset you then you must not have read up on much history, try looking in to the American (secret) war on Laos, the civilian population became the target for more than two million tons of bombs.

This was the most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history.

Is this in regards to WWII or Vietnam? Also, please forgive me as I am a little paranoid and worn out, but why are you making a connection with this to bombings in Laos and bring up America? While I am interested in history ( of any kind and in any light) I am not up for bashing.

Well war is alway cruel. Even when we try to sterilize it like we do today. There is no nice way to kill people. You can easily bash any side in any war. It is not ever nice. It is also not always avoidable.

Good luck, lots of interesting history.

[COBBER]

Great link, thanks!

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

And Pridi has become even more interesting to him, Hero or Villian, what do you think?

Hardly surprising considering that the Thai government of that time was on the same side as the Japanese. This was all out war. Not the political games of chess type wars that we have these days.

[macb]

Casualty information World War 11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World...ties_by_country

Edited November 15, 2006 by macb

[Little Black Duck]

Has anyone ever encountred stories of Japanese crimes against civilans in Thailand during WWII? There are stories of these things from China to the Philippines but I have never heard anything concerning SEA or Thailand. I know Thailand wasn't occupied the way other nations were but the Japanese were still there.

Have a look at Nightmarch in the Pattaya Today Newspaper on the web,,The guy who does that has published a book of the history of SE Asia, his contact should be available through Pattaya Today if not PM me I'll give you his contact..

[phibunmike]

If this upset you then you must not have read up on much history, try looking in to the American (secret) war on Laos, the civilian population became the target for more than two million tons of bombs.

This was the most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history.

Is this in regards to WWII or Vietnam? Also, please forgive me as I am a little paranoid and worn out, but why are you making a connection with this to bombings in Laos and bring up America? While I am interested in history ( of any kind and in any light) I am not up for bashing.

This was during the American War in Vietnam. Laos was not officially involved, in fact Nixon denied any military activity was taking place there. It was run by the CIA and I don't suppose the average American had any idea (I mention this to make it clear I am not bashing the average American, whatever I might think about American foreign policies).

Around 1970, America flew over 40,000 bombing sorties** over Laos. They dropped more tonnage of bombs on Laos than the total by US during WWII.

Sorry I haven't got a reference for this just now, I am away from my books.

** edit: per year

Edited November 15, 2006 by phibunmike

[steveromagnino]

This was during the American War in Vietnam. Laos was not officially involved, in fact Nixon denied any military activity was taking place there. It was run by the CIA and I don't suppose the average American had any idea (I mention this to make it clear I am not bashing the average American, whatever I might think about American foreign policies).

Around 1970, America flew over 40,000 bombing sorties** over Laos. They dropped more tonnage of bombs on Laos than the total by US during WWII.

Sorry I haven't got a reference for this just now, I am away from my books.

** edit: per year

The documentation for much of America's secret war on SE Asia was based on the idea that it was better to have no one living somewhere, than to have a communist. Hence the semi secret bombing of southern Vietnam; of Cambodia and of Laos. Not America bashing, this is fact, and available in the released information from 30 years earlier (or however they restrict it) and numerous books and news reports. America also did massive bombing in the south of Vietnam (the bit they were supposedly protecting) and having made the land arid and impossible to farm, they could then round up the people they were 'freeing from communism' and chuck them in refugee camps. High casualties because it was an internal war with a lot of support of the unpopular side (the southern corrupt democratic group) from USA, and increasing support from China for the rest.

By comparison, the Japanese occupation of Thailand was a less violent, as Thailand AFAIK was a stepping stone to get to the resources in Burma and India rather than some sort of idealogical battlefront. The Japanese weren't liked, but weren't specifically despised either; and didn't do too much to stir things up. The British/Americans didn't ever really do a Dresden type campaign in Thailand, probably because they recognised that Thailand would be an important ally following WW2 in a strategic location. In fact, Thailand was a key partner in the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia, AFAIK the planes used to fly from Isaan across to do 'carpet bombing' which is not nearly as much fun as it sounds.

The feeling towards Japanese is therefore fairly mild, this compared to NZ/Australia where as combatants, the POWs returning had a huge hatred for the Japanese after they way some were treated.

[thaibebop]

Great link, thanks!

I was very upset to read of the allied bombing of Bangkok. It didn't seem like they wanted to take the time to tell the difference between Thai and Japanese.

And Pridi has become even more interesting to him, Hero or Villian, what do you think?

Hardly surprising considering that the Thai government of that time was on the same side as the Japanese. This was all out war. Not the political games of chess type wars that we have these days.

Well, the article in the link talked about the resistance movement that Pridi and a few western officals were apart of were helping to identify targets and trying to warn away allied bombings from civilian areas. The allies didn't listen, so in one example they bombed Bangkok (I believe) and left large sections of the city without power or water and the Japanese weren't affected by this because they disregarded the information given to them by the resistance. That is what is sad.

[thaibebop]

If this upset you then you must not have read up on much history, try looking in to the American (secret) war on Laos, the civilian population became the target for more than two million tons of bombs.

This was the most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history.

Is this in regards to WWII or Vietnam? Also, please forgive me as I am a little paranoid and worn out, but why are you making a connection with this to bombings in Laos and bring up America? While I am interested in history ( of any kind and in any light) I am not up for bashing.

This was during the American War in Vietnam. Laos was not officially involved, in fact Nixon denied any military activity was taking place there. It was run by the CIA and I don't suppose the average American had any idea (I mention this to make it clear I am not bashing the average American, whatever I might think about American foreign policies).

Around 1970, America flew over 40,000 bombing sorties** over Laos. They dropped more tonnage of bombs on Laos than the total by US during WWII.

Sorry I haven't got a reference for this just now, I am away from my books.

** edit: per year

Yes, that is what I thought you were talking about. I know a little of this. I know that the American Armed Forces did some pretty sick sad things during the Vietnam War. It's something that many are still having to come to terms with here. War never brings out the best only the beast.