Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[dominique355]

The definition of a Police State is: Unless it is specifically allowed, everything is forbidden and considered to be a crime.

The definition of a democracy: Unless it is specifically forbidden, everything is allowed.

Which is Thailand under Prayut?

[SABloke]

''Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes they fall into a category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and their possession therefore is illegal.''

So there's no way to add them to a list And if the law needs to be adjusted, surely it's easy to get the NLA to vote 162 - 0 with 2 abstensions (abstensions make it seem legit )

[bbbbooboo]

hmmm......just when you think you have heard it all

[smotherb]

So it's ok for Hiso families to drive around drunk killing innocents and getting virtually Scott free but you light up an artifice bunger and you 5 years in the slammer.

What's wrong with this picture Thailand ?

You're arguing apples and oranges. It is not "ok for Hiso families to drive around drunk killing innocents." However, they do get away with it. Similarly, it is not ok to "light up an artifice bunger" however, are you ready? Hiso families will get away with it.

Do you see the commonality here?

[biplanebluey]

Hey, just a heads up if you are worried about the American Lung Association (Notice it starts with the word American which = Corrupt these days). The cancerous chemical in e-cigs that they are talking about being in antifreeze is called Propylene Glycol and just because you can pull that it is associated to antifreeze off of Wiki-whatever doesn't mean anything. If you actually do some research into the substance itself you will find it is also in plenty of other things that you ingest daily in America in much higher doses than any E-cig can give you. I have ran my own health tests. Smoked 2 packs a day while working in Afghanistan for 3 years. Blew into the doctors machine, he told me my lung age was 75 years old. Switched to vaping for exactly 1 year, went back and blew into the same machine, told me my lung age was 38 years old. Only test the doctor and I needed to see. Sold. It may not be healthy for you, but it damn sure is not equal to or greater than cigarettes.

So what are these things "that we ingest in much higher doses"----- please enlighten not just blatantly state

[Tatertot]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

/quote

I fine the smell of burning pig flesh quite wonderful. And the smell from these vaporizers much better than cigarettes. Thailand is full of smells, and bound to be, by its nature. Perhaps you need a ticket out.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Tatertot

[JackThompson]

The "anti-freeze" bit is scaremongering the uneducated. A bit of history: At one point, ethanol was used as anti-freeze, so bums would steal antifreeze from vehicles and drink it. When they switched to Ethelene Glycol, which is toxic, many people died from ingesting it.

Later a non-toxic antifreze using Propylene Glycol was introduced, as to reduce deaths from dogs drinking the spilled / leaked product. It is this substance which is used in e-cig liquid formulas, not the toxic one.

As to health issues, see:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/health/e-cigarettes-vaping-quitting-smoking-royal-college-of-physicians.html

And the tax aspect could be dealt with by regulating and taxing the liquid, which would also rid the product of any harmful ingredients, as reported in some cases.

[Thomas Hannah]

I'd like to this enforced first before I believe it, I guess vaping in public would be a no no but further than this the effect of any of this is highly questionable.

The ONLY chance that it will ever be 'enforced' is if some group can find a way to make money out of the 'fines', a la the scam perpetrated by the BMA in which 'city police' fined those seen dropping cigarette butts. They can still be seen from time to time outside MBK, CP Tower and other places.

Vaping is a more discreet activity and unlikely to attract the same scrutiny ( other than the cloud chasing Milleniums).

Untill your bags are checked on arrival.And you have brought your supply of vapour for your holiday.Before.It was not worth them checking your bags.Because people only had duty free.Which they could see.sadly thailand has become a no no for me.For over 20 years i visited.10 years i virtualy lived there.no less than 8 months of year.I went for 3 weeks a year ago.after being away for a year.Im glad it was only 3 weeks.Today i tell people to stay away.

[atyclb]

Are the tobacco companies pulling a few strings. I thought people turn to E cig in a bid to kick the nicotine habit.

its not in big tobacco interest to have ecigs competing with and actually helping smokers to become healthier (e gigs remove much of the contaminants)

e cigs are also great indoors as they dont smell much or offend non smokers.

[cmiuc]

another corruption measure... its not about health..about money... its ok to buy cigs(the ones with the morbid pix on them) and to kill everyone around you with 2nd hand smoke rather some a bit cleaner replacement...

Amazing Thailand Thinking!

[swervinphuket]

I would have to assume that this would only apply to Thais? Reasoning is that a tourist bringing an ecig from Europe or wherever is not breaking the law? If i got nicked i would state that i purchased mine in my home country.

It;s incredible that you can buy and smoke cigarettes which can kill you but you can't smoke an ecig which does not kill you. Crazy country.

[aussiebrian]

Sorry, not meaning to offend, but there's so much wrong with your post. Nearly everything you quoted has either been completely debunked or is misleading in very significant ways.

The vast majority of folks who vape (including myself) are former cigarette smokers and as such, we're very interested in getting as many facts as possible. Make no mistake, I read a LOT of related information, and if I thought for one moment that vaping was more hazardous than smoking cigarettes, I absolutely wouldn't do it. I'm absolutely convinced that's not the case.

That's not to say that I believe vaping is harmless. I'm sure that it isn't, but I'm equally sure that it represents harm reduction. Public Health England agrees with me, concluding that e-cigarettes are 95% safer than cigarettes:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review

Here's a list of known carcinogens in cigarette smoke (33 in all!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cigarette_smoke_carcinogens

Nearly all of those are not contained in e-cigarettes, and the very few that are are present in trace amounts compared to cigarette smoke. (Important to note that nicotine isn't one of them...people smoke for the nicotine but die from all the other crap in a cigarette)

But even with all those known carcinogens, you can walk into any 7-11 and buy a pack of smokes any time. Just who are they trying to protect with e-cig regulation, hmm?

When reading articles that demonize e-cigarettes (especially those that come from the FDA and the American Lung Association), it's very important to follow the money. Big Tobacco has a lot at stake with e-cigarettes, as do USA state (and I assume global) tax revenues which figure to see sharp reductions in tobacco taxes, which are very significant.

For those who need their nicotine E-cigarettes is a much healthier way to take it rather via normal tobacco cigarettes with all the associated health problems.

Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic but just about everything else in a tobacco cigarette is. E-Cigarettes are encouraged in some countries in preference to tobacco cigarettes which kill people. But no not in Thailand, it is more important to collect tax rather than save lives.

From the American Lung Association: http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/e-cigarettes-and-lung-health.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.th/

Starting in August 2016, FDA will begin to apply and enforce key provisions of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act as it relates to the sales, marketing and manufacturing of e-cigarettes.

We don't presently know what is in e-cigarettes. However, in initial lab tests conducted in 2009 the FDA found detectable levels of toxic cancer-causing chemicals, including an ingredient used in anti-freeze, in two leading brands of e-cigarettes and 18 various cartridges. A review of studies found that levels of toxins in e-cigarette aerosol varied considerably within and between brands. A 2014 study found that aerosol from e-cigarettes with a higher voltage level contains more formaldehyde, another carcinogen with the potential to cause cancer. The findings are alarming, and underscores why the American Lung Association called so urgently for FDA oversight of these products.

Flavors in e-cigarettes are also a cause for concern. Not only are flavors used to target kids, but they may be harmful on their own. E-cigarette and flavor manufacturers and marketers may suggest that the flavor ingredients used in e-cigarettes are safe because they have FEMA GRASTM status for use in food, but such statements are false and misleading. The reality is that FEMA GRASTM status only applies to food, meaning it's safe to eat, and does not apply to inhaling through e-cigarettes.

Diacetyl, a buttery flavored chemical often added to food products such as popcorn, caramel, and dairy products, has also been found in some e-cigarettes with flavors. Diacetyl can cause a serious and irreversible lung disease commonly known as "popcorn lung."⁴

Poisoning concern

Aside from concerns about e-cigarette use and emissions alone, data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that calls to the nation's poison centers for e-cigarette exposure poisonings are rapidly increasing. One study found that while most calls involving e-cigarette liquid poisoning came from accidental ingestion of the e-cigarette or its liquid, about one-sixth of the calls related to someone inhaling these items. Exposure through the eye and the skin were also reported.

Depends whose countries research you read.

http://theconversation.com/electronic-cigarettes-could-have-a-huge-effect-on-public-health-58968

Vaping and the TPD discussed in the Lords Grand Committee 10/05/16

Vaping and the TPD on BBC News 21/05/1

Vaping on the BBC's "Trust Me, I'm A Doctor" This one is very interesting

Go put that in your pipe and vape smoke it...

Edited June 21, 2016 by aussiebrian

[Hammock]

Smoking or vaping nicotine almost guarantees early death from cancer. Nicotine is cancerogenic in any form. Quit this last century and not fashionable habit now. In China it seems like 99% of men smoke but women less, in Russia it looks like women smoke even more than men.

The word you're looking for is "carcinogenic" and you are completely wrong - nicotine on it's own is generally agreed to NOT be carcinogenic and has actually been shown to have possible health benefits like reducing the likelihood of Alzheimer's and other neurological conditions in later life. Just google it. It's all the tar and nasty chemicals in the smoke that makes cigarettes carcinogenic, not the nicotine.

Please get your facts straight before posting in public. Spreading your "opinion" without first checking the facts is a highly irresponsible activity that does not benefit anyone.

Google is full of articles confirming carcinogenic properties of nicotine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/278265.php

You can do your own search on this subjects just as a matter of interest before making conclusions.

[DrTuner]

So what are these things "that we ingest in much higher doses"----- please enlighten not just blatantly state

Propylene Glycol is used as food additive, code E1520. It's a humectant, glazing agent and anticaking agent. Think ice cream, artificial flavoring bases, etc.

[swervinphuket]

I would have to assume that this would only apply to Thais? Reasoning is that a tourist bringing an ecig from Europe or wherever is not breaking the law? If i got nicked i would state that i purchased mine in my home country.

It;s incredible that you can buy and smoke cigarettes which can kill you but you can't smoke an ecig which does not kill you. Crazy country.

[Dexlowe]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

*You were sitting on the beach the other day .... sooo, a wide open space with (probably) sea breezes?

*A couple of guys .... that's an awful lot of people.

*Blowing smelly smoke all around the place .... hmmm, a couple of guys in a wide open space smoking e-cigs (which don't put out much smoke, btw - I know this for a fact)????

This picture Mr Keesters is painting is seriously messed up, and I'm calling BS. The only thing that could have created this scenario is a shisha (or whatever it's called).

**BTW, it should be noted that half or more of the liquids I see on sale are non-nicotine - I started on e-cigs with nicotine added, and then reduced until I was smoking non-nicotine liquid. AND ... tah-dah, Mr Keesters, it didn't stink up my enclosed living room.

I'm so sick and tired of the bad press that e-cigs are getting. They're an excellent aid to quitting tobacco - the only real worry is what's in the liquids. So, simple answer - produce safe liquids under licence. Do us all a favor.

(Actually, there is a second worry - that of inhaling vapor into the lungs - some issues there, I believe - but that's a story for another day.)

[elgordo38]

So it's ok for Hiso families to drive around drunk killing innocents and getting virtually Scott free but you light up an artifice bunger and you 5 years in the slammer.

What's wrong with this picture Thailand ?

A brain thought processor suffering an imbalance??? or still trying to figure out how to TAX them. Governments always want to have their share of money spent on things that are bad for your health.

Edited June 21, 2016 by elgordo38

[Gweiloman]

another corruption measure... its not about health..about money... its ok to buy cigs(the ones with the morbid pix on them) and to kill everyone around you with 2nd hand smoke rather some a bit cleaner replacement...

Amazing Thailand Thinking!

I wonder what's more dangerous; second hand (cigarette) smoke which dissipates quickly in an open space or the fumes belching out from the vehicles on the roads everyday in Bangkok.

[shawn000]

For those who need their nicotine E-cigarettes is a much healthier way to take it rather via normal tobacco cigarettes with all the associated health problems.

Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic but just about everything else in a tobacco cigarette is. E-Cigarettes are encouraged in some countries in preference to tobacco cigarettes which kill people. But no not in Thailand, it is more important to collect tax rather than save lives.

There are over 4000 chemicals in tobacco, 19 of which have been proven to be carcinogenic.

As for nicotine, the jury is still out on that one, What has been demonstrated is that nicotine does cause chromosomal aberration and sister chromatid exchange, the damage of DNA, which is related to tumor growth. Nicotine also decreases the tumor suppressor Chk2 which is formed when DNA is damaged to limit tumor growth. So, it does appear that nicotine increases the risk of oncogenesis, malignant tumor growth, although it may not do this alone it may well serve as a catalyst to carcinogens that the body would otherwise be able to control. It may be that E-cigarettes and other nicotine replacement therapies are leaving people more vulnerable to developing cancers however, this is not fully understood yet.

But traffic fumes are understood.So why are all cars not made electric(.MONEY)Toxins cause cancer,not nicotine.2 main places toxins are today.are in the air and in the sea,caused by oil related.Yes benzine in the fish.Did you know that half the men in america develope cancer and about a third women.Im sure this is not because of nicotine.Did you know that vitamin c causes cancer.Why do you think if you drink to much orange juice,you get the shits.Its your body trying to dump it from you.SMOKING AND E CIGS ARE BEING USED AS A DISTRACTION FROM THE TRUTH OF THE REAL CAUSES OF CANCERS..yES .HEART DESEASE AND LUNG CANCER.. CIGS IS A NO NO...wHEN I WAS A YOUNG BOY.i NEVER HEARD OF SOMEONE HAS DIED OF CANCER.NOW TODAY.ALL I EVER HEAR IS PEOPLE DYING FROM CANCER.

You are right about the ignoring of petrochemicals. However you seem to completely misunderstand toxins and carcinogens, nicotine is a strong toxin, however it is not a known carcinogen, the two do not go hand in hand, toxin is synonymous with poison, carcinogen describes something that disrupts DNA and results in abnormal cell growth, some toxins are carcinogenic, others are not.

As for vitamin C, that old paper was debunked years ago, they did not test using ascorbic acid, they used the sodium salt, sodium ascorbate, which is a man made substance that is not found in orange juice. The reason too much orange juice, or any other sweet fruit, will give you diarrhea is due to the level of fructose, the body does not have a function to expel carcinogens, you are of course just making things up.

I think you will find that it is not as a distraction to other unrelated causes of cancer that e-cigs are being hyped as potentially dangerous, but due to the power of the tobacco companies fearing for their loss of sales.

[connda]

I can't understand the hypocrisy. Cigarettes acceptable; e-cigarettes completely unacceptable.

What sort of complete insanity makes legislation like that? Either they all are acceptable or they are all unacceptable. That's totally bizarre to the point of utter insanity.

[cmrichsw]

Anther stupid law - All talk no enforcement. Maybe the E smokers will be put in prison with the bridge players. 555 Surely the Thai authorities have many other real laws to enforce like traffic violations for one.

[farcanell]

Several years ago, when trying to get my first e cig, I was told that they were still considered illegal to purchase because they were not good for your health (this is not to say that they are or are not better / worse than cigarettes... Just not good), and therefore, to avoid any possible legal issues , such as class action cases, as exist against tobacco companies (asbestos companies etc) they would remain illegal.

It made sense at the time.... But spin doctor mumbo jumbo usually does.

[Psimbo]

Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes

The importation, sale and production for sale of E-cigarettes is also illegal

So how do you get one if all those things are banned. Of course is is illegal to possess one.

Just go to one of the many shops that sell them!

Another ill-thoughtout idea from the Puzzle Palace.

[Psimbo]

I can't understand the hypocrisy. Cigarettes acceptable; e-cigarettes completely unacceptable.

What sort of complete insanity makes legislation like that? Either they all are acceptable or they are all unacceptable. That's totally bizarre to the point of utter insanity.

Cigarette production in Thailand is under a State monopoly, controlled by the Finance Ministry.

These are the people who, when tax was increased on ciggies (by them!), introduced a cheaper brand so people with a lower income would not be affected.

You can't make this stuff up!

[josemanuel]

I stay por pleasure in Thailand one or 2 months a year with my wife since 2008, I have been a smoker all my life but a month ago I started vaping and I don't smoke anymore, although this was unintended, so, now with this law I cannot vape in Thailand without the risk of going to jail? Are they sending me and my wife away to some other place around the world?

Edited June 21, 2016 by josemanuel

[Eli1]

I can't wait to sell my condo's and get the hell out of this unjust country.

It's a joke the whole place is an absolute joke.

[aussiebrian]

Smoking or vaping nicotine almost guarantees early death from cancer. Nicotine is cancerogenic in any form. Quit this last century and not fashionable habit now. In China it seems like 99% of men smoke but women less, in Russia it looks like women smoke even more than men.

The word you're looking for is "carcinogenic" and you are completely wrong - nicotine on it's own is generally agreed to NOT be carcinogenic and has actually been shown to have possible health benefits like reducing the likelihood of Alzheimer's and other neurological conditions in later life. Just google it. It's all the tar and nasty chemicals in the smoke that makes cigarettes carcinogenic, not the nicotine.

Please get your facts straight before posting in public. Spreading your "opinion" without first checking the facts is a highly irresponsible activity that does not benefit anyone.

Google is full of articles confirming carcinogenic properties of nicotine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/278265.php

You can do your own search on this subjects just as a matter of interest before making conclusions.

Two points is this article first it was written back in 2014 and secondly it is from the USA.

Google recent medical research articles on vaping from the UK and you will find very few negative studies.

Google is full of articles confirming a belief that Radical Islamic jihad is the way to go, the world is flat, no planes hit the twin towers and 9/11 was faked, that Jesus rose from the dead, or even Mohammad flew from Mecca to Jerusalem on a winged horse. You need to look at where the evidence comes from.

[Enoon]

Are the tobacco companies pulling a few strings. I thought people turn to E cig in a bid to kick the nicotine habit.

Thailand Tobacco Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_Tobacco_Monopoly

The Thailand Tobacco Monopoly, (TTM), is a state enterprise which had a monopoly in Thailand over the manufacturing and distribution of tobacco products.

Caring for the people.

[Kiteboy57]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

And I guess you don't even Fart in Public mate eh? Not sure if you've noticed but you and I live in a country of inconsiderateness, a little vapour smell from an E Cigarette on the beach is the last of your problems, especially if you had to drive home on the Thai roads! Just because you don't particularly like something you personally don't have the right to ban it, if you want to live in your own perfect world, may I suggest buying your own island and staying put.

[bri1guy]

So in Thailand, a Ecig is like drug paraphernalia? Is it illegal in my checked baggage ?