Theft: What Would You Do?

[fruittbatt]

Recently I placed a collection box in the lift lobby at Nakornping Condo, for an organisation which is collecting warm clothes and blankets for two Karen hilltribe villages.

I attached signs in Thai and English explaining the purpose of the collection. I cut a slot in the top wide enough for people to insert warm clothing and small blankets.

Sadly, the slot was also wide enough for people to take things out. I weighed the chances of this happening in a secured space under the eyes of security guards. I judged it was a fairly safe bet that no one would rip off the needy under such circumstances.

Not so.

I checked the level of the box every day and was pleased to see that it was rising steadily. Last night (about 9.30) it had fallen. When I questioned the night-shift security guards they stated that the "Management' had taken items out because the box was full. As it had only been just over half full in the morning I was sceptical.

Management confirmed that the story was BS this morning. They also told me that a falang had put money in the box. I removed all the items from the box and sure enough there was no money. Several items which i had donated, including a quality jacket and a pair of Doc Martens shoes had also been stolen.

I have now removed everything from the box and placed a sign asking people not to put money into it. I will take stuff out at the close of each office day, but it bugs me that the finger of blame is pointing in the direction of 2 guys, yet management can only apologise rather than questioning the staff concerned about this low-life act.

Has anyone had experience of a similar problem/ If so, how did you deal with it?

[Rasseru]

I have not had a similar experience, but my gut tells me -- I have no certainty about this at all, it's just a feeling -- that speaking with all the guards first about what you were going to do, and seeking their input, might have avoided the problem. If there is still room for a non-confrontational discussion, it might help prevent a repeat of the incident.

[fruittbatt]

I have not had a similar experience, but my gut tells me -- I have no certainty about this at all, it's just a feeling -- that speaking with all the guards first about what you were going to do, and seeking their input, might have avoided the problem. If there is still room for a non-confrontational discussion, it might help prevent a repeat of the incident.

The day guards were informed, in fact consulted about the placement of the box. Management gave their permission, and other Thai people and falangs were pleased to donate clothing generously, and to ask questions about the donees.

Printed signs in Thai and English explained the project clearly.

There is not much chance of a repeat night-time theft, as I am now clearing the box at least once each day.

Thank you for your suggestion, Rasseru. I agree that outright confrontation will not help, and have managed to avoid that, though I'm sure my anger is still quite obvious.

Edited November 14, 2006 by fruittbatt

[The Dan Sai Kid]

It's a shame to say it, but I think you have to chalk it up to experience. It's best not to kick up too much of a fuss when complaining about security guards. If you have a car you may notice a big scratch along the side, or something worse.

You've got to remember how cheap life can be here.

[taxexile]

including a quality jacket and a pair of Doc Martens shoes

security guards are amongst the lowest paid workers in thailand , and the temptation to take a quality jacket and pair of shoes that was destined for hill tribe people could have been too great to resist.

could also have been someone from the management , if it was then they are unlikely to admit to it.

truth , (as known to westerners ) , is often a commodity in short supply in thailand.

as the previous poster said , chalk it down to experience , and keep an eye out for a security guard wearing doc martens next week.

[Pink Mist]

including a quality jacket and a pair of Doc Martens shoes

security guards are amongst the lowest paid workers in thailand , and the temptation to take a quality jacket and pair of shoes that was destined for hill tribe people could have been too great to resist.

could also have been someone from the management , if it was then they are unlikely to admit to it.

truth , (as known to westerners ) , is often a commodity in short supply in thailand.

as the previous poster said , chalk it down to experience , and keep an eye out for a security guard wearing doc martens next week.

fair call Tax

[mongoose]

I checked the level of the box every day

Minimize your exposure. The box could have been emptied everyday or even more often.

[Ta22]

well .. look at it this way ..

Is gaven to the needy . just not the best of choice .

someone need it .. and someone took it ..

.

is really a kind act you are showing and doing so ..

but maybe you should adjust the way of doing it ..

crime alone . without the lure is not possible ..

money is a good lure . and branded shoe .. considering doc martin can cost as high as 1500baht a pair in thailand if it real ..

if you wanna get second hand clothes you can get them at 30-40 baht a pcs . at some second hand market , which mean what had been stolen have very low resale value ..

so someone might be wearing it ..

i once was told and old man ..

who would you choose to help .. a blind man in the mountian or a hungry man next to you ..

maybe i should clear some of my old chothes and donate it away ..

[Gonzo the Face]

I have not had a similar experience, but my gut tells me -- I have no certainty about this at all, it's just a feeling -- that speaking with all the guards first about what you were going to do, and seeking their input, might have avoided the problem. If there is still room for a non-confrontational discussion, it might help prevent a repeat of the incident.

You know somehow I feel guilty for thinking this would be comparable in talking to the fox guarding the chicken coop, asking what type of chickens he would like in the hen house, pullets or fryers, [or friars]

[Ta22]

One suggest - ..

you might wanna consider collecting it yourself .. or .. maybe get the help of a few gurad or mgm lv,..

so there can .. collect on behalf of you ..

well .

i once lost ... 400k baht .. overnight when my guesthouse room of broken into.

after 5 min of thinking .. i was off partying with my friends .

i see it as karma deed .. in some form of repay ..

of cos i can be real sad about it or even depress . but that not going to change what had happen..

to think back .. i hope the amount of vuale goods and cash do help out the guys who took it from me ..

be it he use it on good or bad .. the money is going to move into the market .. and helping others who need it when the guys who took it spend it ..

let just say is a ALT way of helping people around you .. not that i choose to , just that karma had it . that i had .

Edited November 15, 2006 by Ta22

[endure]

Why do you think that people employed to look after a condo have any responsibility to safeguard your possessions? The fact that they allowed you to deploy your collection box doesn't mean that they become responsible for it.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

you might wanna consider collecting it yourself .. or .. maybe get the help of a few gurad or mgm lv,..

That's not a great idea, considering that it was probably them in the first place

[john b good]

Why do you think that people employed to look after a condo have any responsibility to safeguard your possessions? The fact that they allowed you to deploy your collection box doesn't mean that they become responsible for it.

I would consider that having an oversight (and responsibility) over all property that is legally in the building, would, (or certainly should) be included in their job spec.

Having said that I know from experience that when ever anything is stolen from a property (or business) the first people to look at are your security personnel.

Who has a better opportunity ?

p.s. it is a pity though Mrs fruittbatt that the act occurred and that you now have to take additional measures to mitigate against a recurrence.

Edited November 15, 2006 by john b good

[Ta22]

i was thinking abit about how to help you out , but

after somethinking ..

what i got to say is ..

KEEP IT SIMPLE

keep to your agenda .

don't be upset by evil doer .

is not the amount of clothes or shoe or money you collect .

is the Heart that count ..

hope you have a wonderful days and the world is already better when your most simple of giving heart .

ta22

[fruittbatt]

Why do you think that people employed to look after a condo have any responsibility to safeguard your possessions? The fact that they allowed you to deploy your collection box doesn't mean that they become responsible for it.

Let me clarify that these are not MY possessions, but rather items donated by various people for villagers in Lampang and Mae Hong Son provinces who have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I have been impressed in the last several years by the kindness and honesty of most Thai people, and by the way that many DO look out for each other, especially where there is a feeling of COMMUNITY, ie in a family or a lesser bond of courtesy and shared place in a condo building.

Where condo management has sanctioned and expressed enthusiasm for the placement of a box, there is, I think, a tacit understanding about trust, even if there is no direct responsibility.

This act was a violation of trust and goodwill and a sneaky theft by people charged with ensuring "security".

[fruittbatt]

Thanks to all posters who have contributed positive suggestions and encouraging, peace-making comments. (Ta22 especially).

Thanks too to those who pointed out that my trust was naive, and possibly even placing "bait" before underpaid workers.

I appreciate that this is true, and that I might have considered the design of the box more carefully to try to avoid the "lucky dip" from occurring. For example, I might have placed a taller box, with a slot on the side, which would have made it more difficult to fish things out.

The lesson I have learned? Planning, and thinking more carefully about all aspects of a situation from a "Thai" point of view before acting.

[Ajarn]

Thanks to all posters who have contributed positive suggestions and encouraging, peace-making comments. (Ta22 especially).

Thanks too to those who pointed out that my trust was naive, and possibly even placing "bait" before underpaid workers.

I appreciate that this is true, and that I might have considered the design of the box more carefully to try to avoid the "lucky dip" from occurring. For example, I might have placed a taller box, with a slot on the side, which would have made it more difficult to fish things out.

The lesson I have learned? Planning, and thinking more carefully about all aspects of a situation from a "Thai" point of view before acting.

Not a Thai view, but a more "careful" view, to be sure.

[Ta22]

From a bussiness man point of view ..

..

since the donated item .. had been stolen ..

seem like some of the donated item .. had far higher value . , that why it attacted the 3rd hand on it ..

-

why not maybe you start some kinda sale of the item donated ..

and using the combine .. money collected by the sale of the .. less warm less useful item .. which fit a city more ..

one example .. ( not the best of example since it stolen .)

like a doc martin shoe ,. can be sold off got like 200-300 baht .

and at the local second store you can get shoe for 30-50 baht .

which mean you can exchange one pair of shoe for . 6-10 pair of . other shoe ..

a nice jacket ., can fetch maybe .. 100baht or 150 bath ...

in return .. it would be able to buy maybe 2-3 pcs of jacket in return ..

.. so for and so on ..

if you need help finding this second hand clothing store let me know . i visit them ofen and i love the old tee shirt .. there are selling for like 20b-30b each .

i am not the kindest heart of doing . any good deed.

for me .. even thief need help .

in our morden days of unbalance and high low..

object become the biggest tool of crime .

we can't help all .

but when choice come . i try to help the closest to me .

[endure]

Why do you think that people employed to look after a condo have any responsibility to safeguard your possessions? The fact that they allowed you to deploy your collection box doesn't mean that they become responsible for it.

Let me clarify that these are not MY possessions, but rather items donated by various people for villagers in Lampang and Mae Hong Son provinces who have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I have been impressed in the last several years by the kindness and honesty of most Thai people, and by the way that many DO look out for each other, especially where there is a feeling of COMMUNITY, ie in a family or a lesser bond of courtesy and shared place in a condo building.

Where condo management has sanctioned and expressed enthusiasm for the placement of a box, there is, I think, a tacit understanding about trust, even if there is no direct responsibility.

This act was a violation of trust and goodwill and a sneaky theft by people charged with ensuring "security".

Do you have any proof that these particular people took the items or are you just speculating? The fact that they had the opportunity is not proof that they stole the items. Unless you do have proof your post is also libelous.

[Ta22]

- let not go in direction .. of who to blame .

a simple . good deeds . should be focus on a simple good deeds ..

i don't see the importance of finding the thief

.

do we alway need to find someone to blame . .

..

so i think the focus is to find a better way .

- am sure fruitbatt did it out of good will and is dishearted by some who may had acted in incorrected way ..

so let not try to find blame as to if it the theif or if she is doing it the wrong way ..

be more positive .

help her find a better answer..

pointing finger get you no where..

get over the spilt milk and find ANSWER

won't that be better ?

good luck and best of task

pardon me to notice and hope to point out that .

The line under the thread title " low life at large "

in my very own view point .

there is only . " LIFE " no high or low

maybe misleaded or stray one .

let hope this lost stray person can find their path soon

thanks you

Edited November 15, 2006 by Ta22

[JimGant]

This thread has got me thinking, especially with the holidays coming up.....

I've never donated anything in Chiang Mai, but as my closet runneth over, just where is there a Salvation Army equivalent in CM? Someplace, preferably, where you know your donation will be used as intended?

[richard10365]

I love living in Thailand and believe there are many good and kind people living here. The good people are easy to notice because they have no fear of hiding their deeds.

On the other side of the coin, there are many bad and dishonest people here as well. You don't really notice them until they take advantage of you because their deeds are usually hidden.

It would seem. then, that the best policy in regards to not being taken advantage of is that of prevention rather than trust.

It would be nice to be able to trust everyone but this is not realistic. Eventually, this misplaced trust, will soon have you being taken advantage of as well.

Experience sometimes hurts.

[fruittbatt]

Yesterday afternoon several bags of clothing turned up in the management office. One contained the missing shoes, though no sign of the jacket or the alleged donation.

Internal security has evidently worked well and I feel very relieved to know that

Management has taken the matter seriously and acted to recover what they could.

I would also like to reassure anyone who reads this that the day guards, cleaners, and office staff have all been helpful and sympathetic in this matter. The fact that a theft occurred is no reflection whatsoever on the staff at Nakornping. The offender has (apparently) been dealt with.

The box is watched carefully, and emptied twice daily, so anyone wishing to donate clothing can rest assured that it will reach the two villages.

Edited November 16, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Rasseru]

Glad to hear the good news.

[Briggsy]

Westerners donate anonymously generally. Thais donate and expect a mention. Those intent on organising charitable donations need to tailor their collecting activities accordingly.

[Ta22]

fruitbatt - what kinda .. people you donating .. the clothes too . and how ..

please let me know more info ..

i have a car club with about 20+ member ( COUPE Cras only )

can you give me more info .. which part of lampang , or lamphun ?

would like to do some Meeting so maybe my club can go up and visit some kids ..

the last time i went to visit some kids .. there were so happy with seeing all this sport card . and i see their happy smile . so fun ..

maybe we can work out some kinda .. meeting to visit

would bring even more joy .

[The Dan Sai Kid]

It's nice to know that they did something about it.

[fruittbatt]

fruitbatt - what kinda .. people you donating .. the clothes too . and how ..

please let me know more info ..

i have a car club with about 20+ member ( COUPE Cras only )

can you give me more info .. which part of lampang , or lamphun ?

would like to do some Meeting so maybe my club can go up and visit some kids ..

the last time i went to visit some kids .. there were so happy with seeing all this sport card . and i see their happy smile . so fun ..

maybe we can work out some kinda .. meeting to visit

would bring even more joy .

Hi Ta22,

both are Karen villages, one in Mae Hong Son province, in a mountainous region and access is by 4WD only. The other village, in Lampang, is accessible by regular vehicle. Some of the clothing is going to be delivered to the second village in the next couple of weeks. The gear for Mae Hong Son will be sent out with a person who works directly with the villagers, I believe.

Your enthusiasm is wonderful. As soon as I have more details from the Soroptimist International meeting, I will PM you.

(edited for sp.)

Edited November 16, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Ajarn]

Westerners donate anonymously generally. Thais donate and expect a mention. .

I'd say this is bullshit, from my experience. The only exception is Thai politicians, but aren't all politicians the same??

[Ta22]

my younger brother is going on a vespa rally on 24th .. maybe up to 100 vespa

to visit mae hong son and should be visting alot of the village also ..

i am considering to drive my car to up ( worrying if my car can take the roads

maybe lampang .. will be better . . most is sport cars and classic cars so i think mae hong son might be abit hard ..

- keep me posted .. never hurt to have more info , you won't know when it will be handy or you got extra clothes whahahahhahaha

why do good deed if you want to be known for doing it ..

if the good deeds you doing is not from your heart to give or share ..

is just another commercial deal ..

tons of thai do good deeds everyday without being named .. look at temple is alway flooded with donation ..

and i personally known a few doz people who had help out at the phuket tsunami ..

collected as much as a few hundred copse - and help bury them -

those are the real hero .. .. non of them were even on the new paper ..

sad to say all the media about donation to help those victim ..is such a joke ..

and little really get to those who really need help ..

so sad to even think about to .. human is rotting - soon a robot will have more emotion then us ..

good luck and good will .

Donation is not measure by the amount of cash . or the number of clothes . or the price of the item ..

is the very moment you share your time and effort to make others have a better chance when you can afford to share .

so . for those who think diffrent . and felt that his or her races is better please think twice .. and

why be a bitter or sour person when you can be one of joy and positive one .

if you need someone to talk to .. will behappy to chat with you .. and share my idea or why i am alway happy .

sorry i did not direct my reply to anyone .. but to those whom apply to .. i am sure you know .

ta22