So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Fair enough - Farage claiming that the Brits. voted for a points-based migration system is yet another lie.....  We've seen many from both the brexit and remain camp .

 

But then again those claiming that democracy is best served by ignoring the referendum, or calling for a parliamentary vote/ another referendum etc. are trying to find a way to circumvent the truly democratic referendum. 

The Australian points based system was made by the official leave campaign, Boris Johnson , etc.

As there are 3 main brexiters in the cabinet, then I would expect them to pursue the pledge

[ljd1308]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

1- First time I've heard about a points based immigration system.  But its not a bad idea.

2- The stand-by of remainers.

3- I'm sure Brit. fisherman have their own interpretation of the fishing quota.

4- Obviously the typical politicians' lie.

5-Pensions have been failing/decimated for a few decades now.

6- Brit. companies have been complying with EU regs for a long time now - so no reason why they would fail the test once we leave.

7- Who knows?  We'll find out.

8-And that's where it becomes a stupid to support the 'cause'.a

 

But I do agree that nobody knows how it will turn out.

 

All the 'experts' assured us that Britain (not to mention the world) would immediately collapse in the event of 'Brexit' vote.  This didn't happen, so the goal-posts have been shifted.

I am not sure this is entirely the case, most experts that I have seen referred to outcomes after brexit(not after the vote), though there were no doubt some that based it on the vote rather than leaving.

 

All of those points have been raised either in person or on here(the most outrageous are actually on this thread), they are not reasons that have been made up and if you haven't seen or heard them you haven't been paying attention.

 

I don't see much point anymore in debating the actual results of Brexit, but surely it is time to question why people voted for something they didn't understand.

 

Why do you put "experts" in inverted commas? Is it because you don't value expertise? It is something many people who did vote to leave do, as if having knowledge of a particular subject is a negative.

[ljd1308]

3 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The Australian points based system was made by the official leave campaign, Boris Johnson , etc.

As there are 3 main brexiters in the cabinet, then I would expect them to pursue the pledge

But that still isn't what alot of people voted for.

 

If that was what the actual referendum was about, why wasn't that the question?

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The Australian points based system was made by the official leave campaign, Boris Johnson , etc.

As there are 3 main brexiters in the cabinet, then I would expect them to pursue the pledge

Fingers crossed - I hope they do so .

 

If its good enough for the Australians - its good enough for the Brits.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

REALLY ??

 

I've no doubt that you think yourself incredibly intelligent  - but your posts prove otherwise.

 

With a bit of luck a mod will be along soon to delete all these posts that rely on nothing other than insulting those with a different opinion .

 

If posts that are insulting are deleted ... many of yours will disappear. 

 

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do you ever read what you write? You are so full of self importance and arrogance, now you are patronising. Its very difficult to respond to posts like yours as they are full of BS, but more importantly your attitude stinks. Do you honestly think that you can talk down to people, who the hell do you think you are!!! Everybody on here are wrong and only you are right. You certainly have a superiour complex, you need help.

 

 

 

You need help answering the questions! My attitude? You might want to check your own.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The Australian points based system was made by the official leave campaign, Boris Johnson , etc.

As there are 3 main brexiters in the cabinet, then I would expect them to pursue the pledge

Fingers crossed - but I doubt it as politicians are more interested in cheap labour.

 

Not their problem, instead they'll benefit by getting consultancies/directorships etc. from those large companies/corporations that are keen on keeping wages low.

[ljd1308]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Fingers crossed - I hope they do so .

 

If its good enough for the Australians - its good enough for the Brits.

FYI - The Australian system does not work and it is not good enough for Australians.....it should not be something to aspire too.

 

Especially if you want to avoid cheap labour where the Australian immigration policy has special dispensation to allow cheap labour from certain(white) countries to stay. Or if you want to avoid human rights abuses. 

[AlexRich]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

All the 'experts' assured us that Britain (not to mention the world) would immediately collapse in the event of 'Brexit' vote.  This didn't happen, so the goal-posts have been shifted.

 

More twisting?

 

Most 'experts' predicted that the UK would not fare as well economically outside of the EU ... in other words we would be economically worse off and there would be negative disruption to the economy during the negotiation process. 

 

Can you show us any evidence ... a TV clip, newspaper article, blog, opinion piece, etc from any economic commentator where they said that the UK economy would, in your words, "immediately collapse in the event of a Brexit vote"? Just one, I'm not asking for much now, am I?

 

Again, create a strawman (immediate collapse of the UK economy), show that it has not happened, and present that fact as proof that those 'experts' were wrong. It appears to be your modus operandi.

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

I am not sure this is entirely the case, most experts that I have seen referred to outcomes after brexit(not after the vote), though there were no doubt some that based it on the vote rather than leaving.

 

All of those points have been raised either in person or on here(the most outrageous are actually on this thread), they are not reasons that have been made up and if you haven't seen or heard them you haven't been paying attention.

 

I don't see much point anymore in debating the actual results of Brexit, but surely it is time to question why people voted for something they didn't understand.

 

Why do you put "experts" in inverted commas? Is it because you don't value expertise? It is something many people who did vote to leave do, as if having knowledge of a particular subject is a negative.

I'm inclined to agree insofar as both  'leave' and 'remain' voters knew little about the EU.

 

Edit - which I think answers a few of your points.

 

I put 'experts' in inverted commas because their predictions have been proven to be wrong.  Not a problem though as they're now moving the goal-posts.

Edited September 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[ljd1308]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm inclined to agree insofar as both  'leave' and 'remain' voters knew little about the EU.

Yet one dived into the creek without checking the depth first and they are more likely to come out with a broken neck than the side who wanted to know how deep before diving right in.

[ljd1308]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm inclined to agree insofar as both  'leave' and 'remain' voters knew little about the EU.

 

Edit - which I think answers a few of your points.

 

I put 'experts' in inverted commas because their predictions have been proven to be wrong.  Not a problem though as they're now moving the goal-posts.

But they haven't been proven wrong, brexit hasn't actually happened yet and most experts are still warning of consequences.

 

There is a difference between voting to leave and actually leaving, no one is moving goal posts. Most of the predictions were based on leaving the EU, not voting to leave the EU.....until it happens the changes will be minor.

 

I am not sure that your misunderstanding of timelines is a reason not to trust people who actually have the knowledge and know what they are talking about. If it could be proven to you that the vast majority of experts stated their predictions were after leaving, would that change your view on them?

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

Yet one dived into the creek without checking the depth first and they are more likely to come out with a broken neck than the side who wanted to know how deep before diving right in.

Let's wait and see what happens.

 

It will be interesting for all of us.

 

Edit - We're looking at what happens in the EU, as well as what happens with the UK economy.

Edited September 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[ljd1308]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm inclined to agree insofar as both  'leave' and 'remain' voters knew little about the EU.

 

Edit - which I think answers a few of your points.

 

I put 'experts' in inverted commas because their predictions have been proven to be wrong.  Not a problem though as they're now moving the goal-posts.

Given the fact that I did not refer to a single reason that people voted to remain, i am not sure why your response would include both.

 

The only reason I can think of is that you want to cloud the issue to turn any negative about a leave voter into something that applies to a remain voter.....but given your indecision over it that can't be the case.

 

Not a single person I am aware of voted to remain because their forefathers died fighting Germany.....so there is no way you could possibly think that misinformation applied to both sides. Yet if you look back through this thread you will see one of the most vocal posters in favour of leaving gave that as their main reason.

[ljd1308]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Let's wait and see what happens.

 

It will be interesting for all of us.

 

Edit - We're looking at what happens in the EU, as well as what happens with the UK economy.

That is another issue I have with people who voted to leave(not you specifically), why do people seem pleased that the EU might struggle too?

 

One poster stated he didn't care how bad it was for Britain as it would be worse for the EU.......that just seems petty.

I take the view that Europe is stronger together and that has been proven throughout history.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

I suspect that your dishonesty stems from your superiority complex: you obviously think that other posters are too stupid to notice it.

 

The poster in question (me) replied to a single post by you about an Essex comedian on Question Time discussing brexiter racism. I pointed out that your post was nothing more than anecdote. It was YOU who tried to change the subject to Japan.

 

You're getting tiresome, Alex, and I expect the forum mods have noticed.

 

Dishonesty? Let's test that, shall we?

 

The poster cumgranosalum made the point that Brexiteers are "unable to tell the difference between reasoned proposition and anecdote". He then gives up the Japanese report as an example of a piece of information that can hardly be described as an anecdote. Quite correctly of course. 

 

You then ask him to explain how the comedians joke was actually a "reasoned proposition"? Firstly, a comedian didn't make a joke, so what are you talking about? Secondly, the example was given by me, not him, in response to the view that no one actually thought that people would be sent home ... clearly, on national TV, someone's just confirmed their family did. And they are not the only one's. Even one person is more than no one. 

 

As for Forum mods, why do you raise that? Can't you cope? 

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Dishonesty? Let's test that, shall we?

 

The poster cumgranosalum made the point that Brexiteers are "unable to tell the difference between reasoned proposition and anecdote". He then gives up the Japanese report as an example of a piece of information that can hardly be described as an anecdote. Quite correctly of course. 

 

You then ask him to explain how the comedians joke was actually a "reasoned proposition"? Firstly, a comedian didn't make a joke, so what are you talking about? Secondly, the example was given by me, not him, in response to the view that no one actually thought that people would be sent home ... clearly, on national TV, someone's just confirmed their family did. And they are not the only one's. Even one person is more than no one. 

 

As for Forum mods, why do you raise that? Can't you cope? 

 

 

 

Actually, I pointed out the flaw in his argument .  i.e. you were talking rubbish and making the most of only one quote....

 

But he used this as an excuse to ignore the earlier post - as the earlier post was no longer visible.

 

Edit - I can only assume cumganosalum was having a bad day, as I also pointed out other failures.

Edited September 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

But they haven't been proven wrong, brexit hasn't actually happened yet and most experts are still warning of consequences.

 

There is a difference between voting to leave and actually leaving, no one is moving goal posts. Most of the predictions were based on leaving the EU, not voting to leave the EU.....until it happens the changes will be minor.

 

I am not sure that your misunderstanding of timelines is a reason not to trust people who actually have the knowledge and know what they are talking about. If it could be proven to you that the vast majority of experts stated their predictions were after leaving, would that change your view on them?

Fortunately, the UK has 2 years after invoking Article 50.

 

I'm still suprised that so many think the EU can dictate terms.

 

The EU is in trouble - but if it can get over this, it will still have to recognise that EU companies import to the UK, and they will be far from happy if the onerous tariffs are applied.

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Dishonesty? Let's test that, shall we?

 

The poster cumgranosalum made the point that Brexiteers are "unable to tell the difference between reasoned proposition and anecdote". He then gives up the Japanese report as an example of a piece of information that can hardly be described as an anecdote. Quite correctly of course. 

 

You then ask him to explain how the comedians joke was actually a "reasoned proposition"? Firstly, a comedian didn't make a joke, so what are you talking about? Secondly, the example was given by me, not him, in response to the view that no one actually thought that people would be sent home ... clearly, on national TV, someone's just confirmed their family did. And they are not the only one's. Even one person is more than no one. 

 

As for Forum mods, why do you raise that? Can't you cope? 

 

 

 

 

Alex, you are digging yourself further into a hole with your continued dishonesty. I didn't have a discussion with cumgranosalum about the Essex comedian. I tried to have one with you, but you changed the subject.

[AlexRich]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually, I pointed out the flaw in his argument .  i.e. you were talking rubbish and making the most of only one quote....

 

But he used this as an excuse to ignore the earlier post - as the earlier post was no longer visible.

 

Edit - I can only assume cumganosalum was having a bad day, as I also pointed out other failures.

 

The example was a response to the argument that no one really thought people would be sent back home, as you well know. If even one person did, it disproves the argument. So I don't need to conduct a UK wide survey now, do I?

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

44 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Dishonesty? Let's test that, shall we?

 

The poster cumgranosalum made the point that Brexiteers are "unable to tell the difference between reasoned proposition and anecdote". He then gives up the Japanese report as an example of a piece of information that can hardly be described as an anecdote. Quite correctly of course. 

 

You then ask him to explain how the comedians joke was actually a "reasoned proposition"? Firstly, a comedian didn't make a joke, so what are you talking about? Secondly, the example was given by me, not him, in response to the view that no one actually thought that people would be sent home ... clearly, on national TV, someone's just confirmed their family did. And they are not the only one's. Even one person is more than no one. 

 

As for Forum mods, why do you raise that? Can't you cope? 

 

 

 

I made the effort to quote all the posts - which is why I get a bit peed off when it is now presented as something different.

 

cumgransulom's response was to a poster that was quoting a comedian's 'funny comment' - and took advantage of the new 'quote' option to pretend that the comedians's anecdote didn't exist - and that the responding poster couldn't understand the difference between an anecdote and an intelligent belief.

 

One of them was stupid or, more likely, taking advantage of the new posting system.  Something I consider pretty stupid as it relies on the rest of us not remembering.

 

 

[AlexRich]

18 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Alex, you are digging yourself further into a hole with your continued dishonesty. I didn't have a discussion with cumgranosalum about the Essex comedian. I tried to have one with you, but you changed the subject.

 

The only person being dishonest here is you. You talk about a comedian's joke? I never mentioned anything about a joke, he was making a serious point about how deluded members of his family were ... let's call that a mistake on your part. Nice of you to point out failures in others ... perhaps you should have a closer look at your own. 

[Ace of Pop]

Bob Geldof amuse the world again


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The example was a response to the argument that no one really thought people would be sent back home, as you well know. If even one person did, it disproves the argument. So I don't need to conduct a UK wide survey now, do I?

 

 

Do I really need to post all the quotes again?

 

Of course I don't.  Go back only this page or the last and you'll see the full conversation.

 

But I've no doubt that you will prefer to continue to misrepresent the 'conversation'. 

 

Sad, but it pretty much exemplifies the remainers tactics.

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The only person being dishonest here is you. You talk about a comedian's joke? I never mentioned anything about a joke, he was making a serious point about how deluded members of his family were ... let's call that a mistake on your part. Nice of you to point out failures in others ... perhaps you should have a closer look at your own. 

The comedian was telling an anecdote?  Certainly not a joke .

 

More likely of course, that the comedian was presenting an intelligent belief.  Or at least another poster thinks this is the case.

Edited September 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Linzz]

AAhem!  To change the topic a little.....What did the Brexit supporters gain is the subject.

In my view the UK has had a lucky escape. I know all the jingoism and anti immigrant rhetoric got up Bremainers noses and I understand. The general attitude by Bremainers is that Brexiteers are low info uneducated xenophobes and it shows on this forum. 

But purely for economics there is reason enough to brexit. For instance the fact that the EU Commission is trying to impose taxes on anyone that paid less tax than the highest in Europe, shows the dictatorial nature of the EU beast that it is fast becoming as the ECB nosedives into negative interest rates. The recent ruling that Apple has to pay 13b in back taxes is brain dead. The Commission has shafted Ireland and Scotland now for investment purposes, for what company will want to locate and provide jobs in a country where it's tax will be maximised? Whether you agree or not, Ireland gave Apple  low tax status to attract business and jobs. So now the Commission can retrospectively impose taxes. American companies and others will be driven out of the EU. Then if  diverse states within the EU cannot be self determining the cracks and the breakup of the EU will appear. Britain will become the lifeboat. The EU Marxist/Socialist federalizing and utopian social engineering model will not work even if the original intentions were noble.

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, Linzz said:

In my view the UK has had a lucky escape.

 

I agree 100%

 

The euro, currently being held together by Germany will disintegrate within the next 5 years.

 

The current euro 1.1 Trillion of QE by the ECB has done next to nothing. Many economists had forecast that this current QE program was the last chance saloon for the euro. What did the ECB do on the quiet ? They extended the program by 6 months and raised the QE from euro 60 Billion a month to euro 80 Billion a month. As I posted yesterday, Germany's economy is currently contracting and if that continues over the next 6 months, the 

 

Although the UK is not in the EZ, the fallout from a euro implosion is going to massive and far reaching. The more distance the UK can put between itself and the fallout, the better. I still think that it is too late and the UK will get swept up in the implosion, the effects will still be far less than it will be for the EZ Countries.

 

The UK, being free from the EU and a stand alone Country would benefit greatly when / if this happens. Providing that they get their act together PDQ and anticipate accordingly.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

The only person being dishonest here is you. You talk about a comedian's joke? I never mentioned anything about a joke, he was making a serious point about how deluded members of his family were ... let's call that a mistake on your part. Nice of you to point out failures in others ... perhaps you should have a closer look at your own. 

 

The lies continue apace and the hole gets deeper: I haven't used the word "joke" (or any similar word) in any of my comments on Essex comediangate.

 

What I will say is that your postings are almost impossible to take seriously now, a bit like a joke, really .

[Khun Han]

All this remainer re-writing of history about the economic crash. The scaremongering predictions by remainer experts was of an immediate crash because multinationals and financial markets woild start acting immediately in preparation, so that they wouldn't get caught out. They didn't. Osbourne said he'd immediately produce a recession budget if Britain voted out. He didn't. Sterling was going to continue to plummet after it's initial reaction fall. It didn't. But the crash will come, they don't know when, but it will definitely come .

[AlexRich]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

All this remainer re-writing of history about the economic crash. The scaremongering predictions by remainer experts was of an immediate crash because multinationals and financial markets woild start acting immediately in preparation, so that they wouldn't get caught out. They didn't. Osbourne said he'd immediately produce a recession budget if Britain voted out. He didn't. Sterling was going to continue to plummet after it's initial reaction fall. It didn't. But the crash will come, they don't know when, but it will definitely come .

 

Name one 'expert' who predicted that the economy would crash immediately? Oh, you mean people on here? Who?

 

You couldn't make it up ... but of course you continue to. The same build a strawman, knock it down, and offer it up as proof that the remainers objections have been proven wrong.

 

Again, we are not outside the EU, we have not even instigated Article 50 ... so you're talking about an economy in the EU, not outside it. Again, time is not your friend. The argument from remainers is that the UK will not prosper economically outside of the EU ... that was the expert consensus, a hypothesis that can only be tested once it happens. But even now, it just does not look good.