So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Linzz]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Well if true, Alex should wake up because things aren't going to change and keeping the fight going between the two camps is counter productive - I sense of some other posters that the desire to continue the fight is strong, just because it's a fight and not because of the cause (which has now gone away).

 

It's called sour grapes and for the educated elite it is not a favourite dish.

[AlexRich]

Just now, Linzz said:

 

It's called sour grapes and for the educated elite it is not a favourite dish.

 

Boris Johnson etc ... are part of that educated elite. It was an educated elite that conned the uneducated masses ... Daily Mail owner, part of that same elite. I wonder how long it will take to dismantle UK workers rights and social policies earned within the EU?

[Linzz]

3 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

" But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible." - you can say that again - anyone who thinks a referendum is democracy is totally deluded.

 

Got a better plan?

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I was thinking of the one in Ireland, that was overturned by another referendum. In the context of the EU. 

 

As for research, you can do as much of that as you like to support whatever your view is ... there's plenty that refutes the number of Jews that died in the holocaust ... however dubious that may be you can find anything that supports your particular viewpoint. And if Brexit five years down the road turns out not to have been a great success, there will be plenty who state it would have been so much worse in the EU. 

 

As as for stating opinions as facts, do you have an example? 

 

 

Good point.

 

Whilst I've always said that I agreed with delaying activating Article 50, I also said that I was concerned that it would be used as a delaying tactic until a good enough excuse could be found to ignore the referendum vote.

 

I hadn't remembered the Irish EU vote being rejected because it didn't agree with politicians views, and therefore another vote being demanded!

 

I still can't remember the details, but it does look as if May isn't prepared to take the same route.

 

Perhaps she is delaying hoping that the Courts will rule that the referendum doesn't count - and that only politicians can vote on this matter?  I hope not, but still think delaying activating Article 50 makes sense for at least two reasons:-

 

1) EU companies will make it very clear to the EU politicians that politics aren't as important as money - and that the UK is one of their largest importers.  Let's be honest here, politicians are run by big business and money.

 

2) it makes sense to wait and see how things turn out.  It was always obvious that one of the largest contributors to the EU leaving was going to cause problems - but it seems to have gone further than that as population of other countries take heed of the brexit vote, and expressing their own unhappiness about various EU issues.

 

Will the EU collapse?  I don't know, but am sure that they need to concentrate their efforts on ensuring that those populations don't end up in an even worse position as a result of trying to stop trade with the UK/enforcing unwanted immigration etc. etc.

[dick dasterdly]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Boris Johnson etc ... are part of that educated elite. It was an educated elite that conned the uneducated masses ... Daily Mail owner, part of that same elite. I wonder how long it will take to dismantle UK workers rights and social policies earned within the EU?

I worry about the emboldened part, which is why I eventually decided not to vote .

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

Betamax was the superior technology, we ended up with VHS!

 

What is Brexit and what are the economic implications? Everyone can have an opinion but we do not know in fact what this will end up like, but you talk as if we do?

 

There have been plenty of referendums before that have been overturned. There's nothing final about it. This process hasn't even begun ... and in democratic processes votes are continuous ... there will be another one soon enough.

 

 

 

Name three.

 

The implications of Brexit are potential change, that's all we know, perhaps better if everyone gets behind it and supports whatever it is rather than trying to turn back the clock, don't you think!

[AlexRich]

Job vacancies in England's financial sector dropped more than 10% after the vote ... 

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37446127

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Instead of calling it Project Fear, which makes it sound as though it's part of an organised push to undermine the Brexit vote, why not just view it as what it probably really is, their personal opinion or view and say you disagree with it or not?

 

I call it Project Fear because there is an organised push to undermine the vote. What do you think the coming legal challenges are about?

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Majority of tyranny is also democratic

 

Oh dear. The standard mantra of the anti-democrat. Heard regularly in Thailand from the New Politics fascists' mouths, as a matter of fact.

[rockingrobin]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Its more democratic than general elections.

 

The referendum was a simple yes/no vote - and whichever had the larger vote 'won'.

 

3 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Majority of tyranny is also democratic

 

29 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oh dear. The standard mantra of the anti-democrat. Heard regularly in Thailand from the New Politics fascists' mouths, as a matter of fact.

It is about  forms of democracy and nothing to do with being anti democrat.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

No Robin, it's an argument concocted and used by anti-democrats (usually fascists, as in Thailand). I'm surprised you're using it. But I suppose, with all the other remainer arguments wearing a bit thin (the boy who cried wolf, and all that), needs must.

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, KonaRain said:

The Brits need to be in the same place as Switzerland, having the cake and eating it.

 

Fortunately there aren't any thick Brits to be seen sipping expressos on Bahnhofstrasse.

[Craig krup]

I notice that Martin Schulz is at the LSE threatening that the parliament will veto any deal. Er, no. What does Article 50 say? It says "A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."

 

The parliament licences the council to conclude, and the council then concludes by a qualified majority. You can't "conclude" anything if there's a further procedure. The member states have the power, and the big ones almost all of it. Germany (cars), France (food), and Spain, Greece and Portugal (holidays) rule. 

[AlexRich]

 

One for the "put up and shut up" brigade ... there may be trouble ahead! 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/23/george-osborne-brexit-won-majority-hard-brexit-did-not

[Khun Han]

George Osbourne: the politician who is still trying to drag his reputation out of the gutter after his brexit debacle. Last seen being touted for mayor of Manchester, which is a perennial Labour city, so his chances on that one lie somewhere between bob hope and no hope. It's self-publicity and the after dinner circuit for George from now on, I'm afraid.

 

And the grauniad.....bless. It's trying it's level little best to keep the remain flag flying.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Khun Han

[billd766]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

One for the "put up and shut up" brigade ... there may be trouble ahead! 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/23/george-osborne-brexit-won-majority-hard-brexit-did-not

 

The voice of possibly the worst Chancellor of the Exchequer that the Tories have ever produced who threatened the whole of the UK with a very painful budget if Brexit ever came off, using the newspaper that speaks for the majority of people in the UK, or so they believe.

 

Another discredited Tory politician who doesn't have the guts to resign.

Edited September 23, 2016 by billd766
Adding extra text.

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The voice of possibly the worst Chancellor of the Exchequer that the Tories have ever produced who threatened the whole of the UK with a very painful budget if Brexit ever came off, using the newspaper that speaks for the majority of people in the UK, or so they believe.

 

Another discredited Tory politician who doesn't have the guts to resign.

 

As discredited as those that promised £350 million per week injection into public services post-Brexit, and who no longer talk about it? Osborne was a better chancellor than some of the cretins that held that position (Lamont?) ... and if May stumbles he'll be waiting in the wings, along with several others ... at 45 years old he'll be around for a while yet ... as they say "a week is a long time in politics" ... ask Nick Clegg, Tony Blair and David Cameron?  

 

[AlexRich]

Growth halved? Not exactly a great result, is it? 

 

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/oecd-brexit-to-slice-britains-growth-in-half-a3350376.html

[Khun Han]

Another forecast. How many have the forecasters got right on brexit so far? None, I believe.

[chiang mai]

Some of you guys seem to enjoy hanging labels on people and classifying them, which are you:

 

"There are the Triumphant Brexiteers, Worried Uncertains, Cautious Adaptors, Pro-European Refuseniks and then there’s Theresa May"?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-theresa-may-which-camp-are-you-a7325681.html

 

It's very clear that there's a number of "Triumphant Brexiteers" in this thread, I'm going to go with wanting to be known as (if I must be grouped at all) belonging to the Cautious Adapter group.

[Ace of Pop]

No just The Free Handout Group


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[billd766]

12 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

As discredited as those that promised £350 million per week injection into public services post-Brexit, and who no longer talk about it? Osborne was a better chancellor than some of the cretins that held that position (Lamont?) ... and if May stumbles he'll be waiting in the wings, along with several others ... at 45 years old he'll be around for a while yet ... as they say "a week is a long time in politics" ... ask Nick Clegg, Tony Blair and David Cameron?  

 

 

Nick Clegg? I remember him vaguely. He resigned as the leader of the Lib/Dems after the last election in 2015. They got about 60% of the votes that the UKIP got and ended up in 4th position tied with the Democratic Unionist party with just 8 seats and they lost 15% of their votes which is why he resigned.

 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/2015.htm

 

Tony Blair is possibly the most hated ex PM in the UK and there are quite a few people who want to see him on trials for war crimes.

 

David Cameron resigned from PM and has recently resigned from politics completely in case you had not noticed.

 

If you quote something please try to attribute it to the person who said it.

 

In this case the quote " A week is a long time in politics" was actually said by Harold Wilson though he may not have said it first according to Nigel Rees. Possibly misattributed; according to Nigel Rees in Brewster's Quotations (1994), asked shortly after his retirement in 1977 about the quote, he could not pinpoint the first occasion on which he uttered the words.

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Nick Clegg? I remember him vaguely. He resigned as the leader of the Lib/Dems after the last election in 2015. They got about 60% of the votes that the UKIP got and ended up in 4th position tied with the Democratic Unionist party with just 8 seats and they lost 15% of their votes which is why he resigned.

 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/2015.htm

 

Tony Blair is possibly the most hated ex PM in the UK and there are quite a few people who want to see him on trials for war crimes.

 

David Cameron resigned from PM and has recently resigned from politics completely in case you had not noticed.

 

If you quote something please try to attribute it to the person who said it.

 

In this case the quote " A week is a long time in politics" was actually said by Harold Wilson though he may not have said it first according to Nigel Rees. Possibly misattributed; according to Nigel Rees in Brewster's Quotations (1994), asked shortly after his retirement in 1977 about the quote, he could not pinpoint the first occasion on which he uttered the words.

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson

 

 

Why would I attribute one of the best known phrases about politics? What relevance does that have to the point being made, namely that popular politicians and popular policies can become unpopular very very quickly. At one time Blair was unbeatable, Cameron won an election the year before, and Nick Clegg was an overnight political star after he performed well in TV debates. That popularity reversed very quickly. 

 

If you don't understand the point, just say so! 

 

 

[Khun Han]

What was it Chiang Mai was saying about being civil? Condescension is a default position for most remainers. Like I said, it's a comfort blanket for them.

[AlexRich]

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Some of you guys seem to enjoy hanging labels on people and classifying them, which are you:

 

"There are the Triumphant Brexiteers, Worried Uncertains, Cautious Adaptors, Pro-European Refuseniks and then there’s Theresa May"?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-theresa-may-which-camp-are-you-a7325681.html

 

It's very clear that there's a number of "Triumphant Brexiteers" in this thread, I'm going to go with wanting to be known as (if I must be grouped at all) belonging to the Cautious Adapter group.

 

Notice that in the Indy's world, everybody who is not a "triumphant brexiteer" is an incredibly thoughtful remainer variant . Talk about a 'leading' article. It's positively dragging readers along by the hand.

[AlexRich]

You'd never get such bias in the Daily Mail or The Sun or The Telegraph ... well known bastions of 'fair play'? 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

What was it Chiang Mai was saying about being civil? Condescension is a default position for most remainers. Like I said, it's a comfort blanket for them.

 

I sense we could shower you with doves of peace and you'd still find fault and reasons to argue along the old lines, it's PATHETIC and not worth my time - OUT.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I sense we could shower you with doves of peace and you'd still find fault and reasons to argue along the old lines, it's PATHETIC and not worth my time - OUT.

 

You pick on my post, which highlights a typically unpleasant personal attack (on Bill) by a rabid remainer (who is absolutely determined to carry on arguing along old lines, even with you), to see your backside over uncivil forum behaviour? You're either confused of showboating.

[cumgranosalum]

I notice very little satire coming from the Brexit camp - I don't think they actually know how it's done!

 

"Brexiters who say ‘you lost, get over it’ still waiting to discover what they’ve won"

 

 

"With the £350m NHS promise abandoned and a points-based immigration system dismissed, Brexiteers who say ‘you lost, get over it’ are still waiting to find out what they’ve won.

The mystery Brexit prize is causing much excitement among patriotic Brits who are delighted they’ve successfully taken back control.

“I can’t wait to find out what it is,” enthused Simon Williams of campaign group A Nation United in Sovereignty (ANUS).

“I hoping it’s a car or a nice holiday.

“Not a boat though, because I haven’t got anywhere to keep it and I can’t swim.”

Mr Williams also claimed the Remain camp only had themselves to blame for the result, and accused them of talking down Britain during the campaign.

“They should have waited until afterwards, like Liam Fox did,” he said."

http://newsthump.com/2016/09/12/brexiters-who-say-you-lost-get-over-it-still-waiting-to-discover-what-theyve-won/