Aung San Suu Kyi: Our people want work, not charity

[rooster59]

Aung San Suu Kyi: Our people want work, not charity

By Prae Sakaowan

Myanmar de facto leader Aung San Suu Kyi joins Thai junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha today in a press conference at the Government House of Thailand, June 24, 2016. Photo: Pai Chanikarn/ Coconuts Media

BANGKOK: Myanmar de facto leader Aung San Suu Kyi met with Thai junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha today as the two nations signed pacts of cooperation — a new hope of better working conditions and living standards for Myanmar workers in Thailand.

A memorandum of understanding in labor cooperation and agreements in border crossing and employment of workers were signed at the Government House of Thailand this afternoon as Suu Kyi joined Prayuth Chan-ocha in the first official press conference in her visit.

“The border should not be a line divide, it should be a shared responsibility, a shared trust to both our countries. We have to ensure there is peace and prosperity on both sides of the border,” Suu Kyi said.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/06/24/suu-kyi-our-people-want-work-not-charity

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2016-06-25

[taichiplanet]

the irony; an agreement with a country that has just come out from decades under a junta.

[macksview]

how about the karen can go home to their homeland and live in safety and peace.

[The stuttering parrot]

Anyone noticing the trend of the media,journalists etc being barred from events like this so no hard questions can asked or answered?

It's happened here and on the case closed of the 17 children burnt to death in Chiang

Rai..

Why even bother dealing with this unelected illegal government.

No freedom for the Burmese and no freedom of the press.

[LannaGuy]

the irony; an agreement with a country that has just come out from decades under a junta.

exactly what I was thinking, and about to post, it seems she is turning out to be a huge disappointment which is a great shame

don't sell out please

[macksview]

the irony; an agreement with a country that has just come out from decades under a junta.

exactly what I was thinking, and about to post, it seems she is turning out to be a huge disappointment which is a great shame

don't sell out please

yes i know, she has to tread carefully for sure as the 'face' of the fledgeling myanmar 'democracy', but for the people of the northern minorities she has shown little intent to help them gain status even as self governing regions.

[macksview]

Anyone noticing the trend of the media,journalists etc being barred from events like this so no hard questions can asked or answered?

It's happened here and on the case closed of the 17 children burnt to death in Chiang

Rai..

Why even bother dealing with this unelected illegal government.

No freedom for the Burmese and no freedom of the press.

only tame journalists for prayut, maybe someone told him it was a not a good look internationally to keep threatening journalists who ask non preapproved questions.

[tukkytuktuk]

the irony; an agreement with a country that has just come out from decades under a junta.

exactly what I was thinking, and about to post, it seems she is turning out to be a huge disappointment which is a great shame

don't sell out please

Too late. Migrant worker's from Burma are hitting the kool aid early today, no doubt. She's sold them down the river. To big chief five rivers. Human rights of migrant worker's can only worsen now.

[waldroj]

“… new hope of better working conditions and living standards for Myanmar workers in Thailand …”

A lot of superfluous rhetoric! And, yet again any questions about the Rohingya issue was “barred”.

Burmese living in Thailand can take little solace from Suu Kyi’s words, as there is unlikely to be the precious “work” in their own country that this report says they so desperately want.

There is also unlikely to be any improvement in their current working (and living) conditions here in Thailand – in their current situation, they are just too valuable as an important source of cheap labour for Thai employers to exploit.

[shirtless]

Fix Burma so they can work without being exploited, and you wont get charity in Thailand

[lostmebike]

Dancing with the devil Ms Suu Kyi?

[macksview]

Dancing with the devil Ms Suu Kyi?

she is used to that for many years, the question is will it be a close slow last chance dance or l have to dance with you but keep your paws of me type.

[Tomtomtom69]

how about the karen can go home to their homeland and live in safety and peace.

They can. The Kayin state (formerly known as Karen state) is quite safe these days (most of it anyway). Lots of Karen have moved back there from Thailand and are doing much better than they used to in Thailand. They own and run their own businesses, whereas in Thailand they were menial labourers. I know quite a few.

Parts of Shan and Kachin states are still unsafe but Karen is quite safe. I have been there almost 20 times since the borders opened in 2013 you should get out more.

[Tomtomtom69]

“… new hope of better working conditions and living standards for Myanmar workers in Thailand …”

A lot of superfluous rhetoric! And, yet again any questions about the Rohingya issue was “barred”.

Burmese living in Thailand can take little solace from Suu Kyi’s words, as there is unlikely to be the precious “work” in their own country that this report says they so desperately want.

There is also unlikely to be any improvement in their current working (and living) conditions here in Thailand – in their current situation, they are just too valuable as an important source of cheap labour for Thai employers to exploit.

OK let's here from someone who actually knows something about Myanmar.

As that country has opened up and stability and peace has come to many areas, so have foreign investors and jobs. While it is a process that will take time, for the first time in decades, Myanmar has a real chance of making something of itself and in turn, this means jobs for it's people.

[macksview]

how about the karen can go home to their homeland and live in safety and peace.

They can. The Kayin state (formerly known as Karen state) is quite safe these days (most of it anyway). Lots of Karen have moved back there from Thailand and are doing much better than they used to in Thailand. They own and run their own businesses, whereas in Thailand they were menial labourers. I know quite a few.

Parts of Shan and Kachin states are still unsafe but Karen is quite safe. I have been there almost 20 times since the borders opened in 2013 you should get out more.

thanks for that, appreciate it.

i only have a couple of questions.

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms?

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army?

are they self governing?

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

as i said no problems, i would enjoy more info.

[Mudcrab]

“… new hope of better working conditions and living standards for Myanmar workers in Thailand …”

A lot of superfluous rhetoric! And, yet again any questions about the Rohingya issue was “barred”.

Burmese living in Thailand can take little solace from Suu Kyi’s words, as there is unlikely to be the precious “work” in their own country that this report says they so desperately want.

There is also unlikely to be any improvement in their current working (and living) conditions here in Thailand – in their current situation, they are just too valuable as an important source of cheap labour for Thai employers to exploit.

OK let's here from someone who actually knows something about Myanmar.

As that country has opened up and stability and peace has come to many areas, so have foreign investors and jobs. While it is a process that will take time, for the first time in decades, Myanmar has a real chance of making something of itself and in turn, this means jobs for it's people.

Its not all hugs and kisses here just yet. Some projects that a Thai friend of mine has been involved with have been cancelled or suspended. Could be a bit of xenophobia creeping in.

Its getting harder(as in more time consuming) to get certain documents needed for in country travel as well.

Yes Thai Bashers you can't just travel anywhere in Myanmar there are restricted areas to foreigners.

It's my opinion, and mine only, that there is a backlash between the newly formed government and the entrenched public service.

I think many of the senior public servants have been on easy street too long under military rule and would like to see democracy fail as a 'told you so' exercise.

We should not forget that 25% of the parliamentary seats are allocated to military as are the most important cabinet posts. its a democracy...but not the kind the western mind thinks it is.

[scorecard]

how about the karen can go home to their homeland and live in safety and peace.

They can. The Kayin state (formerly known as Karen state) is quite safe these days (most of it anyway). Lots of Karen have moved back there from Thailand and are doing much better than they used to in Thailand. They own and run their own businesses, whereas in Thailand they were menial labourers. I know quite a few.

Parts of Shan and Kachin states are still unsafe but Karen is quite safe. I have been there almost 20 times since the borders opened in 2013 you should get out more.

thanks for that, appreciate it.

i only have a couple of questions.

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms?

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army?

are they self governing?

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

as i said no problems, i would enjoy more info.

Well ther's a bunch of loaded questions.

[Moonmoon]

my wife told me that after Suu Kyi spoke up for better conditions for Burmese workers in Thailand. Thais took offence and sound their disapproval on social media site like facebook calling these Burmese to go home if they dont like it.

I dont know but whats wrong in asking for better conditions and better pay and documentation to prevent Burmese from being abused in their workplace?

[Redline]

Give her some credit, she can not reverse 60 years of discrimination in a few months

[uptheos]

Give her some credit, she can not reverse 60 years of discrimination in a few months

She could speak out about the plight of the Rohingya's in Burma though.

Not a peep out of her, very disappointing.

[Mook23]

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms? 1.

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army? 2.

are they self governing? 3.

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

1. No. read the obvious news outlets and u'll see that just recently yet another issue with KARENS happened at Hteekee (near Kanchanaburi) because they didn't want to give up their (armed) checkpoint there (and taxgates). near Kawkareik (Myawaddy/Mae Sot) there are (shooting) incidents every month between DKBA and tatmadaw.

2. No. I was at very remote KNU office (off-limits) 1,5 years ago, accompanied by Burmese intelligence agent and 2 KNU liasons officers and although they got along they don't trust eachother (each other's administration that is, personally they just do their "job") but at least they try to be pragmatic The KNU looks after its people (the issue was mainly landgrabbing where i was) but they are also corrupt (of course). The Burmese must think about the development of that area (roads, coal plant, damming, etc) whereas the Karen still live in Middle Ages there and many actually wanna keep it like that (far away from central Myanmar administration).

3. They have been quasi-self-governing for decades through KNU = political org. The Karens controlled 70% of southern Burma til mid 90s, only cities like Dawei, Myeik and Kawthaung were in hands of Bamar. All major/minor border gates were in their hands too then. They dealt with the Thai officials and delivered permits to enter and made money through tax gates (Thai consumer goods). Plenty of territory east of Tanintharyi river is still 100% Karen land with little to zero Burmese (army) presence. No roads, u go by by foot, dirtbike or elephant :-)

[macksview]

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms? 1.

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army? 2.

are they self governing? 3.

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

1. No. read the obvious news outlets and u'll see that just recently yet another issue with KARENS happened at Hteekee (near Kanchanaburi) because they didn't want to give up their (armed) checkpoint there (and taxgates). near Kawkareik (Myawaddy/Mae Sot) there are (shooting) incidents every month between DKBA and tatmadaw.

2. No. I was at very remote KNU office (off-limits) 1,5 years ago, accompanied by Burmese intelligence agent and 2 KNU liasons officers and although they got along they don't trust eachother (each other's administration that is, personally they just do their "job") but at least they try to be pragmatic The KNU looks after its people (the issue was mainly landgrabbing where i was) but they are also corrupt (of course). The Burmese must think about the development of that area (roads, coal plant, damming, etc) whereas the Karen still live in Middle Ages there and many actually wanna keep it like that (far away from central Myanmar administration).

3. They have been quasi-self-governing for decades through KNU = political org. The Karens controlled 70% of southern Burma til mid 90s, only cities like Dawei, Myeik and Kawthaung were in hands of Bamar. All major/minor border gates were in their hands too then. They dealt with the Thai officials and delivered permits to enter and made money through tax gates (Thai consumer goods). Plenty of territory east of Tanintharyi river is still 100% Karen land with little to zero Burmese (army) presence. No roads, u go by by foot, dirtbike or elephant :-)

similar things my karen acquaintances told me here in aus.

[DrTuner]

Auntie Aung's smile says it all: "You're next, bubba".

[Winniedapu]

Auntie Aung's smile says it all: "You're next, bubba".

Let's hope so. And lets hope that when ths smoke of her own renaissance has cleared, she deals with the burmese army.

W

[Tomtomtom69]

how about the karen can go home to their homeland and live in safety and peace.

They can. The Kayin state (formerly known as Karen state) is quite safe these days (most of it anyway). Lots of Karen have moved back there from Thailand and are doing much better than they used to in Thailand. They own and run their own businesses, whereas in Thailand they were menial labourers. I know quite a few.

Parts of Shan and Kachin states are still unsafe but Karen is quite safe. I have been there almost 20 times since the borders opened in 2013 you should get out more.

thanks for that, appreciate it.

i only have a couple of questions.

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms?

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army?

are they self governing?

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

as i said no problems, i would enjoy more info.

Most of the fighting in Karen/Kayin state is now over. If it wasn't, foreigners wouldn't be allowed to go there. The border between Thailand's Mae Sot and Myanmar's Myawady opened to foreigners (and Thais/Burmese heading into Thailand) holding appropriate visas on Aug 28, 2013 (so nearly 3 years ago now). Before that, only day trips to Myawady from the Thai side were allowed, while Burmese could only cross to the Thai side on day trips or if they were registered labourers, not for any other purpose. The border crossing had often been closed for months or years at a time prior to 2012, sometimes for security reasons, other times for petty bickering on the part of the Burmese related to territorial disputes. In 2010/2011 the border crossing was closed for an entire year, paralyzing trade.

Apart from a couple of skirmishes in 2014 and 2015 that briefly blocked parts of the road from the border to the interior of the country, the situation has now been declared safe. Since Myawady and the roads leading to/from it from the west are now under government control and thanks to ceasefire agreements with the Karen armies (the KNU and their splinter faction the DKBA), safety has finally returned to the region. Yes, many fighters have surrendered their arms though not all.

The Karen/Kayin armies are not all located only in Kayin state though. Some of them are in Tanintharyi division and there was just recently a minor dispute that occurred near the Htee Khee border (opposite Kanchanaburi's Phu Nam Ron district).

Trade and tourism are also being promoted and the Mae Sot/Myawady crossing, which runs through Kayin state is now the MAIN overland crossing between the two countries, accounting for 90% of the overland trade volume between Thailand and Myanmar and most of the overland tourists coming into Myanmar from ANY country as well (this is not entirely surprising considering that overland travel to/from Myanmar is only possible through Thailand since the borders with Laos/Bangladesh/China and India are shut).

I don't think Kayin state will/should ever be self-governing as that would lead to a fractured state; Kayin can not survive alone with it's few industries such as tourism, logging, agriculture/forestry and minor cement production and small population. If Myanmar wants to achieve real peace, the ethnic armies are going to have to give up some of their selfish claims in the interests of both their people and the nation state. Only if peace prevails, will development and prosperity follow.

Some of the Karen/Kayin I know trust the government, some maybe less so but most now prefer to live in peace than hold onto some sort of grudge or utopia about self-governance. Even the former head of one of the Karen factions, who I personally know (he lived in Mae Sot for 30 years but now is back living on the Myanmar side since a number of years) agrees with this. This coming from a guy that spent decades trying to push the Karen movement.

I would focus my attention not on the Karen/Kayin but rather on the fractured situation in Shan state and Kachin state. Active fighting is occurring up there that is much more serious than anything ever seen in Kayin state.

[Wilsonandson]

Auntie Aung's smile says it all: "You're next, bubba".

Let's hope so. And lets hope that when ths smoke of her own renaissance has cleared, she deals with the burmese army.

W

And asks Bono to bone her again. She needs a man in her life. She really has let herself go. Go girl, you can do the boogie again.

[Tomtomtom69]

“… new hope of better working conditions and living standards for Myanmar workers in Thailand …”

A lot of superfluous rhetoric! And, yet again any questions about the Rohingya issue was “barred”.

Burmese living in Thailand can take little solace from Suu Kyi’s words, as there is unlikely to be the precious “work” in their own country that this report says they so desperately want.

There is also unlikely to be any improvement in their current working (and living) conditions here in Thailand – in their current situation, they are just too valuable as an important source of cheap labour for Thai employers to exploit.

OK let's here from someone who actually knows something about Myanmar.

As that country has opened up and stability and peace has come to many areas, so have foreign investors and jobs. While it is a process that will take time, for the first time in decades, Myanmar has a real chance of making something of itself and in turn, this means jobs for it's people.

Its not all hugs and kisses here just yet. Some projects that a Thai friend of mine has been involved with have been cancelled or suspended. Could be a bit of xenophobia creeping in.

Its getting harder(as in more time consuming) to get certain documents needed for in country travel as well.

Yes Thai Bashers you can't just travel anywhere in Myanmar there are restricted areas to foreigners.

It's my opinion, and mine only, that there is a backlash between the newly formed government and the entrenched public service.

I think many of the senior public servants have been on easy street too long under military rule and would like to see democracy fail as a 'told you so' exercise.

We should not forget that 25% of the parliamentary seats are allocated to military as are the most important cabinet posts. its a democracy...but not the kind the western mind thinks it is.

I have been dealing with Myanmar for a number of years now for our business. Know the country quite well and have been to many corners of it. I am probably the ultimate authority here on TV about travel in Myanmar and open/restricted areas for foreigners. The country is definitely much more open than it's ever been, especially since Aug 28, 2013 when 4 Thai-Myanmar land borders opened. Before this time, foreigners could only fly into the country, not travel overland.

Most in-country travel is fine EXCEPT travel to restricted areas, some of which have become more sensitive due to fighting (notably Kokang region, though who in their right mind would want to go there?) Having said that, my former Chinese boss managed to go there on a day trip from the Chinese side just a few weeks ago (illegally) though I don't admire her courage! Instead, I ask myself, what was she doing there?

Travel across the "Shan" from Kengtung to Taunggyi is fine provided you travel with your own car on a tour (along with government liaison officer and travel agency guide) or with car and driver after having seeked a permit. The latter option is much more expensive than flying so is of little interest to most travelers.

However, getting permits to cross the sole Indian/Chinese border crossings has recently been put on hold; it's an internal issue which may have something to do with opening up these borders as international crossings. Time will tell what happens.

Getting approval for permits to start certain projects is not an easy process, I am well aware of that having been involved in one major project myself. However, at this stage, without going into too much detail, it's not the permit which is the problem (we haven't even gotten to that stage yet) but the willingness of our local partner(s) to co-operate and financing issues. Investing in Myanmar is certainly not without it's risks. But there's a greater chance of success than at anytime since independence from Britain in 1948.

[Tomtomtom69]

have the karen fighters surrendered their arms? 1.

do the karen you know

trust the myanmar army? 2.

are they self governing? 3.

if the fighting after 60 odd years is finally and totally over i will be very pleased for them.

1. No. read the obvious news outlets and u'll see that just recently yet another issue with KARENS happened at Hteekee (near Kanchanaburi) because they didn't want to give up their (armed) checkpoint there (and taxgates). near Kawkareik (Myawaddy/Mae Sot) there are (shooting) incidents every month between DKBA and tatmadaw.

2. No. I was at very remote KNU office (off-limits) 1,5 years ago, accompanied by Burmese intelligence agent and 2 KNU liasons officers and although they got along they don't trust eachother (each other's administration that is, personally they just do their "job") but at least they try to be pragmatic The KNU looks after its people (the issue was mainly landgrabbing where i was) but they are also corrupt (of course). The Burmese must think about the development of that area (roads, coal plant, damming, etc) whereas the Karen still live in Middle Ages there and many actually wanna keep it like that (far away from central Myanmar administration).

3. They have been quasi-self-governing for decades through KNU = political org. The Karens controlled 70% of southern Burma til mid 90s, only cities like Dawei, Myeik and Kawthaung were in hands of Bamar. All major/minor border gates were in their hands too then. They dealt with the Thai officials and delivered permits to enter and made money through tax gates (Thai consumer goods). Plenty of territory east of Tanintharyi river is still 100% Karen land with little to zero Burmese (army) presence. No roads, u go by by foot, dirtbike or elephant :-)

similar things my karen acquaintances told me here in aus.

Mook is fairly right, but his views (and especially those of your Karen acquaintances) seem very polarized.

Fact is, as I've mentioned in my other reply, without some kind of compromise and ceasefire between the Karen/Kayin and the Tatmadaw/Bamar it would be difficult for peace to have come to most of Kayin state. The major areas that trade and tourists pass through is now safe, though as I also mentioned, there have been a few skirmishes mainly in late 2014 and mid 2015 (coming up to a year ago now) where DKBA factions were in dispute with the Burmese army.

The latter dispute centered on the issue of tolls on the new Myawady to Kawkareik highway, built by the Thais, whose official opening was delayed due to this fighting. I went through last year for the 2nd time in a westbound direction prior to it's official opening and was confronted by DKBA fighters who wanted a toll from our driver at 3 separate checkpoints. Days later, on our return back to the Thai side we were blocked because a dispute had erupted when the Burmese army tried to evict these guys from the road. The fighting that ensued lasted about 1 week on the new road and also blocked the old one way road as well for 4-5 days. This happened exactly at the time we wanted to get back to the Thai side. The end result was we had to drive back to Yangon, fly to Bangkok and I had to hire a car and bring along someone to help me retrieve my car that I had parked up in Mae Sot. All in all, a time consuming and expensive exercise.

The new highway opened on Aug 30 last year, with Thai and Myanmar officials in attendance. Since that time, all has been safe and I travelled along the road again twice in both directions, in November and December, noticing all the illegal checkpoints were gone. I am fairly sure fighting on or near that road has NOT occurred since then; otherwise I would have surely read something on the Irrawaddy or another Myanmar news source.

Some fighting continues in isolated corners of the state, but these areas are well away from any tourist/trade routes. However, compared to just a few years ago, the situation is MUCH better.

While distrust still continues at a certain level, I think more and more Karen/Kayin are starting to realize that their struggle for autonomy/independence is a lost cause. Most just want to live in peace. The dyed in the wool fighters may not, but their arena is not limited to Kayin state - Tanintharyi and other areas is still home to many of these guys. However, even in the south, most areas are now accessible to tourists whereas before 2013 this was not the case.

The Kayin living in Aus are likely biased and far removed from the realities of the current situation. Just like their Vietnamese brothers who fled the communists in 1975 and are fiercely anti-regime, criticizing the Vietnamese government from the safety of their new homes in Australia and the USA, the Karen/Kayin in places like Aus continue with their anti-government, anti-Bamar views as if Myanmar were still in the same situation as when they first left the country. Fact is, Myanmar has changed since then, but the attitudes of some of these people hasn't.

[macksview]

great post tom.

without a doubt, the expat types i have met whether hmong or karen are full of hate for the regime they see as oppressive to their people.

i truly hope their land is safe and they get a fair share of the royalties their land has.

the dyed in the wool fighters, are of course the never forget never surrender mind set, but someone has to be prepared to stand up if it turns to custard again.

[Mook23]

Kayin state is just a fraction of what the karens wanted to be their "karen land". They were dominating the whole tennasserim stretch too as well as massive karen populations in the irrawaddi delta and pegu. their kawthoolei aspirations were unrealistic/naive especially after '94 but they could have done much more to help their people who suffered a lot because of the mistakes their "leaders" made (both christian and buddhist fractions) - they were devided and corrupt because greed and self-interest eventually always win from idealism... even now, the relatively high-ranking local KNU folks (i know very well btw) are mainly occupied enriching themselves.