Australian lawyer gives new hope to Burmese men convicted of the Koh Tao murders

[JLCrab]

I have seen the above Imprint website before and Mr Yarwood writes on his Twitter page:

Interested in humanitarian causes, media freedom, ending slavery, landmine clearance (& world peace,just like Miss World contestants) On the shoulders of giants

However the Imprint website suggests that it is more an educational venture working with local NGO's and is not primarily involved in legal representation in criminal and/or civil litigation.

And? Who implied it did involve criminal litigation? It does imply that just because you are involved in real estate that does not bar you from other projects, many lawyers do it very successfully and as far as I can see Ian has been selfless in has cause for the pursuit of justice. Those attacking him are what? For what reason? This is not about the messenger it is about the message. That message now needs to be taken up by the defense team

It's SOP for these goons to try to personally discredit anyone who poses a threat to the cover up. Wouldn't surprise me if they have a spread sheet they refer to before posting.

Thanks -- as for being called a dick and a goon on the last few pages, at least I know that you're reading my stuff. I don't know about a spread sheet on the cover-up, but a flow chart like this to follow all those complicit inb the grand collusion would look something like this:

[JLCrab]

they should be set free.

More than that; they should be compensated Bt.1,000 each, for each day they have been knowingly and wrongly incarcerated.

<snip>

And we know they have been knowingly and wrongfully incarcerated because the real perps were identified on 23 SEP 2014 and then the unexpected crashed down on the investigation and not one shred of evidence was thereafter available.

[boomerangutang]

The entire DNA trail re; this case, is a badly orchestrated farce. Remember Nomsod's press conference, where he had his cheek swabbed in front of multiple TV cameras? What a ridiculous farce!

NS' daddy was there, his lawyer, the then chief of police Somyot (who had recently put himself in charge of the case). All the corrupt were there. Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

I don't think the pretty nurse taking the swab (or her U lab) was crooked. They were merely given the wrong DNA to compare to NS's. The same DNA which was never produced in court, and which probably never existed. In other words, THE ENTIRE DNA PICTURE PUT FORTH BY THAI AUTHORITIES IS COMPLETE BUNK. .....to serve two purposes: #1. completely exonerate the real perps, and #2 falsely incriminate the scapegoats. There is no other conclusion possible.

Note, not only did Somyot put himself in charge of the case right at the time the B2 were fingered and the real perps were permanently let off (never to be mentioned again by officialdom, ever). But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

[useronthenet]

Foreigners have zero footprint in Thailand as far as the authorities are concerned. Expecting anything else is pure imagination !

[Moonsterk]

Well done Ian Yarwood!! You have pulled the trigger and have now forced the hand of the defense to do the same. Now they need to get up off their <deleted> and compose an official complaint and get it submitted pronto.

About time the Thai authorities discovered that submitting DNA evidence is a complex procedure that needs full chain of evidence that can be repeated independently to get the same results, not the one page graph that got these 2 convicted.

Let this case and complaint be the catalyst for change!!

So you did not read the judges' verdict where they speak of having a problem with the story given as to whereabouts? The conviction was not all based on DNA evidence and that's why Yarwood's appeal to appeal will not work-it's too dependent on mumbo-jumbo.

Judges are not forensic specialists and a one page summary was accepted. It was up to defense to contradict the summary, they did not. Why? Maybe they didn't want anyone looking too closely at DNA evidence.

However, I advise that I did discuss the table with the Melbourne DNA expert Jane Taupin who was at court in September 2015 but who was never called to give evidence – a serious mistake by the defence lawyers.

Ms Taupin made the long trip to Thailand. However, the entire time she was here, the defense would not share any useful DNA data with her. All she got was a one-page 'report' with scribbles, cross-outs, unlegible stuff. She deemed it was useless and unprofessional, so she chose not to appear in court. She's a professional, and could not base her court testimony on such scribbles. Even more importantly, Ms Taupin didn't have any access to original DNA samples. She wanted to testify, but couldn't. It would be like a baseball player going to play a game, but when she got to the stadium, there were no balls, no bats, no bases, and the field had been plowed and trenched.

In sum, RTP and prosecution successfully stymied Ms Taupin, as they so successfully stymied other evidence, and the case in general. The list of pertinent clues/people/evidence NOT mentioned could fill a thick book, small font.

so she chose not to appear in court.

Complete fabrication. Ms "Bachelor Degree" Taupin flew herself over to get a piece of the global publicity pie. Defense wisely decided to not use a foreign woman with minimal credentials to tell Thai judges what's what. They had Dr. Porntip for that- too bad Porntip is an activist rebel with nutty hair and books to sell (too) that establishment judges are going to discount. (And then there's that GT -200 business further eroding her credibility. )

What was needed was some crusty ol' Bangkok college professor whose wife serves on luncheon committees. But maybe they wouldn't get involved in defending murderers?

[stephenterry]

The entire DNA trail re; this case, is a badly orchestrated farce. Remember Nomsod's press conference, where he had his cheek swabbed in front of multiple TV cameras? What a ridiculous farce!

NS' daddy was there, his lawyer, the then chief of police Somyot (who had recently put himself in charge of the case). All the corrupt were there. Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

I don't think the pretty nurse taking the swab (or her U lab) was crooked. They were merely given the wrong DNA to compare to NS's. The same DNA which was never produced in court, and which probably never existed. In other words, THE ENTIRE DNA PICTURE PUT FORTH BY THAI AUTHORITIES IS COMPLETE BUNK. .....to serve two purposes: #1. completely exonerate the real perps, and #2 falsely incriminate the scapegoats. There is no other conclusion possible.

Note, not only did Somyot put himself in charge of the case right at the time the B2 were fingered and the real perps were permanently let off (never to be mentioned again by officialdom, ever). But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

There's no evidence that the DNA sample extracted from Nomsod was actually tested. Only the outcome was reported. Another media opportunity, that's all it was? Sometimes I wonder if Thai society is thick enough to believe the B/S? Judging by the infantile crap shown on Thai TV (bells and whistles included), I guess they would.

[Moonsterk]

The entire DNA trail re; this case, is a badly orchestrated farce. Remember Nomsod's press conference, where he had his cheek swabbed in front of multiple TV cameras? What a ridiculous farce!

NS' daddy was there, his lawyer, the then chief of police Somyot (who had recently put himself in charge of the case). All the corrupt were there. Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

I don't think the pretty nurse taking the swab (or her U lab) was crooked. They were merely given the wrong DNA to compare to NS's. The same DNA which was never produced in court, and which probably never existed. In other words, THE ENTIRE DNA PICTURE PUT FORTH BY THAI AUTHORITIES IS COMPLETE BUNK. .....to serve two purposes: #1. completely exonerate the real perps, and #2 falsely incriminate the scapegoats. There is no other conclusion possible.

Note, not only did Somyot put himself in charge of the case right at the time the B2 were fingered and the real perps were permanently let off (never to be mentioned again by officialdom, ever). But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

or,....maybe they knew he wasn't involved.

But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

Another fabrication- the real story is Samart Corp bought the bulk of those shares and did a lot of work raising the capital for that buy which began in 2013. Google the B Post article link not allowed here.

[Moonsterk]

If the court doesn't want to see the letter, it will just put it aside by the waste bucket. I once went to Thai Imm (after losing a passport and then applying for a new one). I had a letter from my consulate (which took me days to get and 1,000's of baht in expenses) which I handed over to the top Thai official. He took a half-second glance at it, and rudely set it aside with a frown, as if it meant nothing.

The letter from the lawyer re; the KT case: will it be translated to Thai? Thai officials won't spend one second trying to read anything in English.

Read... the ....last.....paragraph.

What can you do if you're a defense lawyer and the report says "inclusion"? Well, before you try any last-minute strategies of claiming your client left their DNA at the scene by accident or during a previous visit (as you might with fingerprints), you'll probably want to obtain your own test, but this has the same self-incrimination effect as if you put your client on the stand, and in any event, further DNA testing will only cause delay and additional expense.

About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a "Chewbacca defense" (thanks to the South Park TV show for this phrase) and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061009203657/http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/425/425lect15.htm

I assume you don't find lack of quality assurance is an important factor in this.

But it is not established as such just because a publicity seeking property lawyer in Perth who furthermore and further and more ever, and finally further again... says so.

So where are all these damning claims in the appeal the defense submitted?

This is Thailand.

We don't need "help" from abroad.

I am sure the Thai prosecutor couldn't care less about this.

Undoubtedly. And the judges too, as if they will ever read it- all would know a publicity seeking nobody when they see one.

More ammo for the FB and fake news site misinformation campaigns but void of any real substance as far as getting the appeal considered.

Saliva on Witheridge is an interesting point, was that from Mr Miller I wonder and thus irrelevant to either side which is why neither side used it?

Or...it's been postulated Mr Wai Phyo is a biter, which is why the damage to the face was done- to cover up those marks. Defense certainly would not want saliva from their client to be disclosed, and prosecution already had seminal DNA so perhaps the saliva just got put aside.

Somebody on the defense side outta really shut Yarwood up-he's got a can 'o worms in one hand and an opener in the other. (Lots of little birds about...)

[Bkk Brian]

Well done Ian Yarwood!! You have pulled the trigger and have now forced the hand of the defense to do the same. Now they need to get up off their <deleted> and compose an official complaint and get it submitted pronto.

About time the Thai authorities discovered that submitting DNA evidence is a complex procedure that needs full chain of evidence that can be repeated independently to get the same results, not the one page graph that got these 2 convicted.

Let this case and complaint be the catalyst for change!!

So you did not read the judges' verdict where they speak of having a problem with the story given as to whereabouts? The conviction was not all based on DNA evidence and that's why Yarwood's appeal to appeal will not work-it's too dependent on mumbo-jumbo.

Judges are not forensic specialists and a one page summary was accepted. It was up to defense to contradict the summary, they did not. Why? Maybe they didn't want anyone looking too closely at DNA evidence.

Mumbo jumbo....LOL

Yes thank you I read the unofficial English translated version and it contained lots of information that is completely irrelevant to this complaint and this topic.

This complaint is solely about DNA have you not noticed? It is also nothing to do with the appeal, this is a separate action. Whether judges are forensic experts or not, whether the defense questioned the presented evidence or not is all irrelevant.

What IS relevant is the requirements as stipulated by BLQS and the requirements that regulated forensic labs have under these regulations, which is more than just a one page summary.

[JLCrab]

So some forensic accreditation NGO may come in and review the Thai labs efforts and choose to de-certify them. Retroactive?

[Aj Mick]

What can you do if you're a defense lawyer and the report says "inclusion"? Well, before you try any last-minute strategies of claiming your client left their DNA at the scene by accident or during a previous visit (as you might with fingerprints), you'll probably want to obtain your own test, but this has the same self-incrimination effect as if you put your client on the stand, and in any event, further DNA testing will only cause delay and additional expense.

About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a "Chewbacca defense" (thanks to the South Park TV show for this phrase) and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061009203657/http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/425/425lect15.htm

He's not a defense lawyer, he's a property lawyer residing in Perth and in no way connected with the defense team. Mr Yarwood might refrain from his constant and blatant publicity stunts, (speaking of which- glad to see Bachelor degree "International expert.." Jane Taupin is no where to be seen lately.)

While I have no doubts as to the good intentions of the defenders, do they not realize these dissing actions will simply seal the coffin doors on the fate of the convicted?

It's as if some have never dealt with the Thai mentality outside a resort reception staff and the property lawyer in Perth is a good example of this.

Andy Hall, on his personal FB page has asked Mr property lawyer stop hassling the defense team and direct energy elsewhere. Guess writing this baffle 'em with BS article suffices for that endeavor.

What is an unaccredited, completely biased, cut and paste web site op ed even doing in the news threads?

Mr Yarwood makes no claim to be a defence lawyer, nor to be part of the defence team. He has merely done the courtesy of informing the prosecutor that a complaint has been filed with relevant authorities about the lab responsible for handling, testing and reporting on the DNA evidence used in the trial. That complaint, if upheld, may have some bearing on the outcome of the appeal. He would like his e-mail to at least be acknowledged reasonably promptly, though is aware that any further response could be a long time in coming, if there is any at all.

Your constant casting doubts upon the motivation and qualification and credibility of various people involved defending and commenting on in this case, and your less than becoming way of referring to many, does tend to raise a few questions. Clearly, publicity is something you don't shy away from, but you do tend to be a little less than forthcoming about your own qualifications, and your connections (if any) with the case.

And that is likely to be my last comment on this thread.

[JLCrab]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

[smedly]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

[JLCrab]

So Mr. Yarwood wants to have the labs de-certified. Great.

His letter said from Post#1:

This complaint is a very serious matter as it not only affects the defendants in this case but also casts real doubt upon the operations of the Accredited Laboratory and its ability to conduct DNA analysis and interpret DNA profiles in criminal trials in Thailand.

So if he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, why is he saying that his Complaint would affect the case of the B2? As for getting nowhere, why should I be any different from anybody else's getting nowhere on here?

BTW from http://www.ombudsman.go.th/10/eng/4_1.asp

The 2009 Organic Law on Ombudsman states mandate of the Ombudsman as follows:

1 Consider and investigate complaints when: -
1.1 A civil servant, member or employee of a government agency, state enterprise, or local government violates the law or exceeds the jurisdiction of his or her authority.
1.2 An action or inaction by civil servant, member or employee of a government agency, state enterprise, or local government causes harm, damage or injustice to an individual or to the general public, whether or not this action or inaction is within his or her jurisdiction.
1.3 A negligence of duties or malfeasance by the statutory agencies and the Courts excluding the process of lawsuit judgment.

[Basil B]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Give them a pardon and hope they will go home quietly and everybody will forget, ...until the next murders on Koh Tao.

Yes -- and for cold-blooded psychopathic killers on the loose they have been behaving themselves quite well for going on two years especially with all those hot blonds arriving near-daily on Koh Tao.

There have been many cases in history where serial killers went quite for years, normally when they realise that they maybe under suspicion, but sadly many returned to their old ways when the heat died down.

[JLCrab]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Give them a pardon and hope they will go home quietly and everybody will forget, ...until the next murders on Koh Tao.

Yes -- and for cold-blooded psychopathic killers on the loose they have been behaving themselves quite well for going on two years especially with all those hot blonds arriving near-daily on Koh Tao.

There have been many cases in history where serial killers went quite for years, normally when they realise that they maybe under suspicion, but sadly many returned to their old ways when the heat died down.

Good -- so Koh Tao should be safe for a few more years. Visit now before they return to their old ways.

But thanks anyway for the tip from the forensic criminal psychologist squad on ThaiVisa.

[stander]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

I have tried several times to engage with Yarwood and in the end he blocked me, I guess he did not have the answers.

[StealthEnergiser]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

I have tried several times to engage with Yarwood and in the end he blocked me, I guess he did not have the answers.

Why would he engage with people like you and your girlfriend Lucy who use fake names ?

[boomerangutang]

The entire DNA trail re; this case, is a badly orchestrated farce. Remember Nomsod's press conference, where he had his cheek swabbed in front of multiple TV cameras? What a ridiculous farce!

NS' daddy was there, his lawyer, the then chief of police Somyot (who had recently put himself in charge of the case). All the corrupt were there. Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

I don't think the pretty nurse taking the swab (or her U lab) was crooked. They were merely given the wrong DNA to compare to NS's. The same DNA which was never produced in court, and which probably never existed. In other words, THE ENTIRE DNA PICTURE PUT FORTH BY THAI AUTHORITIES IS COMPLETE BUNK. .....to serve two purposes: #1. completely exonerate the real perps, and #2 falsely incriminate the scapegoats. There is no other conclusion possible.

Note, not only did Somyot put himself in charge of the case right at the time the B2 were fingered and the real perps were permanently let off (never to be mentioned again by officialdom, ever). But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

There's no evidence that the DNA sample extracted from Nomsod was actually tested. Only the outcome was reported. Another media opportunity, that's all it was? Sometimes I wonder if Thai society is thick enough to believe the B/S? Judging by the infantile crap shown on Thai TV (bells and whistles included), I guess they would.

What I am putting forth is: the university lab probably typed NS's cheek swab correctly, though it was done in record time. However, that's less than half the equation. The very important DNA samples taken from the female victim were never substantiated to exist. They exist only as one or two press releases from RTP. HEARSAY. Right after NS's cheek swab was typed (supposedly), then chief Cop Somyot (remember, he's the one who put himself in charge of the case and banished the former head, Panya, to eternal silence) ....Somyot cheerily announced to the world that there was no match. So it's 100% hearsay from Somyot. Not one molecule of evidence ever existed (or exists today) of any DNA taken from either victim.

As if that's not bad enough, Hannah's clothes went missing. They weren't ever tested (that we know of) and were missing from trial evidence.

Anyone who claims that DNA is inconsequential in the trial is talking out their butt. DNA has always been the pillar of the prosecution's case. Each month that passes, it becomes increasingly clear that DNA was either missing, never-existed and/or was unprofessionally handled, .......so now Thai officials and their echoers want to discount DNA altogether.

As for money transfer: There was a document released (unwittingly, I'm sure) by Wattana Capital investment firm which clearly shows Somyot and his wife being among the biggest buyers of new holdings in October 2014, a month after the crime, and days/weeks after he put himself in charge. 370 Million baht is a lot of cash even for a police officer in a police dept which is world renown for taking bribes.

Has anyone checked to see whether the Headman and/or Mon just happened to be 400 or 500 million baht poorer around that time? Nahhh, of course not. NS's mom has been bosom buddies with his lawyer since they were kids. It's not uncommon, in Thailand, for corrupt people to transfer large amounts of money using a trusted lawyer. Follow the money, that's what a farang investigative team would do. But not in Thailand. Any official even feigning to investigate a money trail would have to have a death wish, or at the least; want their career to be terminated.

[Bkk Brian]

What can you do if you're a defense lawyer and the report says "inclusion"? Well, before you try any last-minute strategies of claiming your client left their DNA at the scene by accident or during a previous visit (as you might with fingerprints), you'll probably want to obtain your own test, but this has the same self-incrimination effect as if you put your client on the stand, and in any event, further DNA testing will only cause delay and additional expense.

About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a "Chewbacca defense" (thanks to the South Park TV show for this phrase) and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061009203657/http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/425/425lect15.htm

He's not a defense lawyer, he's a property lawyer residing in Perth and in no way connected with the defense team. Mr Yarwood might refrain from his constant and blatant publicity stunts, (speaking of which- glad to see Bachelor degree "International expert.." Jane Taupin is no where to be seen lately.)

While I have no doubts as to the good intentions of the defenders, do they not realize these dissing actions will simply seal the coffin doors on the fate of the convicted?

It's as if some have never dealt with the Thai mentality outside a resort reception staff and the property lawyer in Perth is a good example of this.

Andy Hall, on his personal FB page has asked Mr property lawyer stop hassling the defense team and direct energy elsewhere. Guess writing this baffle 'em with BS article suffices for that endeavor.

What is an unaccredited, completely biased, cut and paste web site op ed even doing in the news threads?

Mr Yarwood makes no claim to be a defence lawyer, nor to be part of the defence team. He has merely done the courtesy of informing the prosecutor that a complaint has been filed with relevant authorities about the lab responsible for handling, testing and reporting on the DNA evidence used in the trial. That complaint, if upheld, may have some bearing on the outcome of the appeal. He would like his e-mail to at least be acknowledged reasonably promptly, though is aware that any further response could be a long time in coming, if there is any at all.

Your constant casting doubts upon the motivation and qualification and credibility of various people involved defending and commenting on in this case, and your less than becoming way of referring to many, does tend to raise a few questions. Clearly, publicity is something you don't shy away from, but you do tend to be a little less than forthcoming about your own qualifications, and your connections (if any) with the case.

And that is likely to be my last comment on this thread.

Here here. Unfortunately a handful of posters on here cannot bring themselves to debate the actual very significant points of the complaint, instead they are stuck on who is delivering it. One even has problems with Mr Yarwood because of protocol or because of his specialism in property law or because he is trying to make a name for himself! Anything at all to discredit him will suffice for them. If the Thai labs had followed protocol then there would be no need for the complaint in the first place.

This action is very significant, it has massive repercussions not only for this case but all cases that involve DNA evidence in Thailand. Change is needed and NOBODY can dispute that. This could be the first step in that change. The defense team themselves will I'm sure be putting in their own complaint very shortly. Who will those posters start to knock then?

I await now more Yarwood bashing and avoidance/deflection of the flawed DNA evidence highlighted in detail that another poster calls mumbo jumbo.

At the end of the day the Thai labs signed up to international standards, rules and protocols by joining the international regulatory bodies, as is often the case in Thailand its all lip service. I personally hope they will face serious repercussions, perhaps be inspected, an audit carried out and timescales put in place to address the very serious issues with non compliance carrying the ultimate sanction of disqualification from the body.

[Bkk Brian]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

I have tried several times to engage with Yarwood and in the end he blocked me, I guess he did not have the answers.

I hear block buttons are very useful for troll avoidence on twitter

[Basil B]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

I have tried several times to engage with Yarwood and in the end he blocked me, I guess he did not have the answers.

Maybe you should offer to pay his normal fees for such a correspondence...

[JLCrab]

Whatever problems I might have with Mr. Yarwood are mostly with protocol. He has filed a complaint. The net result of his complaint is to have any DNA evidence declared as inadmissible. The acronym NGO certify labs. They have no say as to what is admissible or not as evident in any particular criminal case.

Also Mr. Yarwood, for someone who has no standing in the case other than the 2B said it was OK for him to file a complaint on their behalf, he writes to the Prosecutor to tell him that his handling of Mr. Yarwood's correspondence was unacceptable in its delay. Good for him. If he wants to have the labs de-certified that's OK but that would seem to have nothing to do with this particular case.

your ramblings are not going to make one iota of difference to what Mr Yarwood has said, he has been aritculate and accurate and has also stated clearly he has nothing to do with the case of the B2, he did however consult with various people that have been involved. If you would like to challenge Mr Yarwood then perhaps the best way to do that would be to contact him directly, posting this constant drivel on here will get you nowhere

Additionally if you do decide to contact Mr Yarwood please feel free to share on here as we are all up for a good laugh

I have tried several times to engage with Yarwood and in the end he blocked me, I guess he did not have the answers.

I hear block buttons are very useful for troll avoidence on twitter

Yes but on Twitter you can't block a hashtag # and hashtags are a great way to get to people who have blocked you.

BTW, and noting the topic heading, I don't know if Mr. Yarwood's forensic lab de-certification letter will bring any hope to the B2, but knowing that Kuhn Somyot was maybe dumb enough to take his $10 million in bribe money and use it for a required disclosure SET registered transaction, rather than putting it in an offshore numbered account in Vanuatu, maybe will.

[Khun Han]

The entire DNA trail re; this case, is a badly orchestrated farce. Remember Nomsod's press conference, where he had his cheek swabbed in front of multiple TV cameras? What a ridiculous farce!

NS' daddy was there, his lawyer, the then chief of police Somyot (who had recently put himself in charge of the case). All the corrupt were there. Does anything think they would put themselves in front of cameras - to have it proven the boy was guilty?!? Of course not. They were all 100% sure the test wouldn't show a match, because it was 100% fixed press event.

I don't think the pretty nurse taking the swab (or her U lab) was crooked. They were merely given the wrong DNA to compare to NS's. The same DNA which was never produced in court, and which probably never existed. In other words, THE ENTIRE DNA PICTURE PUT FORTH BY THAI AUTHORITIES IS COMPLETE BUNK. .....to serve two purposes: #1. completely exonerate the real perps, and #2 falsely incriminate the scapegoats. There is no other conclusion possible.

Note, not only did Somyot put himself in charge of the case right at the time the B2 were fingered and the real perps were permanently let off (never to be mentioned again by officialdom, ever). But just weeks later, Somyot and his wife plopped down a cool 370 million baht to buy stocks with Wattana Capital in Bkk. Just coincidence? Oh silly me, perhaps they just happened to have some spare baht at that time. $12 million, that's a lot of spare change, particularly on a policeman's salary.

There's no evidence that the DNA sample extracted from Nomsod was actually tested. Only the outcome was reported. Another media opportunity, that's all it was? Sometimes I wonder if Thai society is thick enough to believe the B/S? Judging by the infantile crap shown on Thai TV (bells and whistles included), I guess they would.

What I am putting forth is: the university lab probably typed NS's cheek swab correctly, though it was done in record time. However, that's less than half the equation. The very important DNA samples taken from the female victim were never substantiated to exist. They exist only as one or two press releases from RTP. HEARSAY. Right after NS's cheek swab was typed (supposedly), then chief Cop Somyot (remember, he's the one who put himself in charge of the case and banished the former head, Panya, to eternal silence) ....Somyot cheerily announced to the world that there was no match. So it's 100% hearsay from Somyot. Not one molecule of evidence ever existed (or exists today) of any DNA taken from either victim.

As if that's not bad enough, Hannah's clothes went missing. They weren't ever tested (that we know of) and were missing from trial evidence.

Anyone who claims that DNA is inconsequential in the trial is talking out their butt. DNA has always been the pillar of the prosecution's case. Each month that passes, it becomes increasingly clear that DNA was either missing, never-existed and/or was unprofessionally handled, .......so now Thai officials and their echoers want to discount DNA altogether.

As for money transfer: There was a document released (unwittingly, I'm sure) by Wattana Capital investment firm which clearly shows Somyot and his wife being among the biggest buyers of new holdings in October 2014, a month after the crime, and days/weeks after he put himself in charge. 370 Million baht is a lot of cash even for a police officer in a police dept which is world renown for taking bribes.

Has anyone checked to see whether the Headman and/or Mon just happened to be 400 or 500 million baht poorer around that time? Nahhh, of course not. NS's mom has been bosom buddies with his lawyer since they were kids. It's not uncommon, in Thailand, for corrupt people to transfer large amounts of money using a trusted lawyer. Follow the money, that's what a farang investigative team would do. But not in Thailand. Any official even feigning to investigate a money trail would have to have a death wish, or at the least; want their career to be terminated.

Wattana Capital are a PLC boomer. Their financial dealings have to be made public. Somyot's move was typically dumb and arrogant. He'd have been better off putting the money under his bed. If this ever gets investigated properly, he's toast.

[JLCrab]

That Wattana Capital transaction was certainly large at nearly $10 million. However his and his wife's assets were listed at $11 million in May 2014 after the coup so he had 4 months to work on his asset base plus the $11 million was only his disclosed earnings so -- while it's possible the 370 million baht came as bribe money from Koh Tao -- I don't think one can say at this point that that would be the ONLY way he could have garnered such capital stupid or otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somyot_Poompanmoung

Maybe he got bribe money from FIFA -- everyone else seems to have.

... and if the KT big shots kept all THEIR illicit cash under a mattress, how could anyone prove whether their cash reserves were depleted a similar amount as the above or not?

[boomerangutang]

That Wattana Capital transaction was certainly large at nearly $10 million. However his and his wife's assets were listed at $11 million in May 2014 after the coup so he had 4 months to work on his asset base plus the $11 million was only his disclosed earnings so -- while it's possible the 370 million baht came as bribe money from Koh Tao -- I don't think one can say at this point that that would be the ONLY way he could have garnered such capital stupid or otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somyot_Poompanmoung

Maybe he got bribe money from FIFA -- everyone else seems to have.

... and if the KT big shots kept all THEIR illicit cash under a mattress, how could anyone prove whether their cash reserves were depleted a similar amount as the above or not?

So here we are, going 'round and 'round, but accomplishing nothing. At least the Aussie lawyer took the initiative to shed some light on the case in a tangible way, by writing and formally sending a well-researched letter.

Why can there be no investigation of possible money transfers related to this case? I know the answer, and mentioned it earlier. Yet the longer Thai officialdom avoids the issue, the longer Thai justice will be seen as flimsy as a pissed-on piece of toilet paper.

There were two victims of the vicious crime, and now there are two victims who are in prison for an indeterminate time, facing death.

It's not impossible for a retrial to be declared with the most likely perps rounded up and brought to trial. It's happened before in Thailand (farang young woman murdered by Bkk taxi driver several yrs ago). There is also precedence, in Thailand, for a set of RTP to be found guilty of framing scapegoats. Whether cops found guilty of framing are given real punishment is another story, as Thai officialdom abhors disciplining its own ranks.

[TheLobster]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Sure let's just 'save face' and let's not worry about who the real killers were, or tourist safety, or justice for Hannah & David. Yep, that's the solution let's just look to 'save face' ...........

[JLCrab]

That Wattana Capital transaction was certainly large at nearly $10 million. However his and his wife's assets were listed at $11 million in May 2014 after the coup so he had 4 months to work on his asset base plus the $11 million was only his disclosed earnings so -- while it's possible the 370 million baht came as bribe money from Koh Tao -- I don't think one can say at this point that that would be the ONLY way he could have garnered such capital stupid or otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somyot_Poompanmoung

Maybe he got bribe money from FIFA -- everyone else seems to have.

... and if the KT big shots kept all THEIR illicit cash under a mattress, how could anyone prove whether their cash reserves were depleted a similar amount as the above or not?

So here we are, going 'round and 'round, but accomplishing nothing. At least the Aussie lawyer took the initiative to shed some light on the case in a tangible way, by writing and formally sending a well-researched letter.

Why can there be no investigation of possible money transfers related to this case? I know the answer, and mentioned it earlier. Yet the longer Thai officialdom avoids the issue, the longer Thai justice will be seen as flimsy as a pissed-on piece of toilet paper.

There were two victims of the vicious crime, and now there are two victims who are in prison for an indeterminate time, facing death.

It's not impossible for a retrial to be declared with the most likely perps rounded up and brought to trial. It's happened before in Thailand (farang young woman murdered by Bkk taxi driver several yrs ago). There is also precedence, in Thailand, for a set of RTP to be found guilty of framing scapegoats. Whether cops found guilty of framing are given real punishment is another story, as Thai officialdom abhors disciplining its own ranks.

Correction: YOU are going 'round and 'round and accomplishing nothing. I'm not trying to accomplish anything just trying to understand what's gone 'round and 'round and what's gonna next go 'round and 'round.

What would be more likely to occur is that either or both families of the two victims could file their own charges against those you call the 'likely perps' but I would think that would require some compelling new evidence to emerge for a judge to allow such a case to proceed.

[stander]

That Wattana Capital transaction was certainly large at nearly $10 million. However his and his wife's assets were listed at $11 million in May 2014 after the coup so he had 4 months to work on his asset base plus the $11 million was only his disclosed earnings so -- while it's possible the 370 million baht came as bribe money from Koh Tao -- I don't think one can say at this point that that would be the ONLY way he could have garnered such capital stupid or otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somyot_Poompanmoung

Maybe he got bribe money from FIFA -- everyone else seems to have.

... and if the KT big shots kept all THEIR illicit cash under a mattress, how could anyone prove whether their cash reserves were depleted a similar amount as the above or not?

So here we are, going 'round and 'round, but accomplishing nothing. At least the Aussie lawyer took the initiative to shed some light on the case in a tangible way, by writing and formally sending a well-researched letter.

Why can there be no investigation of possible money transfers related to this case? I know the answer, and mentioned it earlier. Yet the longer Thai officialdom avoids the issue, the longer Thai justice will be seen as flimsy as a pissed-on piece of toilet paper.

There were two victims of the vicious crime, and now there are two victims who are in prison for an indeterminate time, facing death.

It's not impossible for a retrial to be declared with the most likely perps rounded up and brought to trial. It's happened before in Thailand (farang young woman murdered by Bkk taxi driver several yrs ago). There is also precedence, in Thailand, for a set of RTP to be found guilty of framing scapegoats. Whether cops found guilty of framing are given real punishment is another story, as Thai officialdom abhors disciplining its own ranks.

Correction: YOU are going 'round and 'round and accomplishing nothing. I'm not trying to accomplish anything just trying to understand what's gone 'round and 'round and what's gonna next go 'round and 'round.

What would be more likely to occur is that either or both families of the two victims could file their own charges against those you call the 'likely perps' but I would think that would require some compelling new evidence to emerge for a judge to allow such a case to proceed.

The posters here who believe they know who the real perpetrators are could be of great assistance if either or both families were to file their own charges.

[JLCrab]

NB from Tilleke & Gibbins Thailand Legal Basics May 2014:

"In Thailand, there are two options available to a party to initiate criminal actions (Option one is for the victim to file charges with the Police and/or Public Prosecutor's Office)"

"The victim may (also) file criminal charges directly with the court without going through the police and Public Prosecutor's Office. In that event, the court will schedule a preliminary hearing to determine whether the facts support trying the case. If the court agrees that there are reasonable grounds to proceed, it will schedule a trial just as if the Public Prosecutor was bringing the charges."