Massive Loss From Thaksin Projects

[Plus]

What helped TRT to create the 'myth' were the Democrats post '97 - undoubtably they have contributed more to solve the crises than is given them credit for. Yet, on village level they were absent...

They have never had strong representation in Isan. When they were in power, New Aspiration (who had control fo Isan at than time and was in opposition) walked out of the parlament.

It's extremely difficult for Democrats to penetrate that region on THEIR terms, not piggybacking on Thaksin's populism that is currently in vogue there.

it is a sign of emancipation that those villagers finally are forming and stating their political views, and dare to disagree.

Disagree with whom? With their masters? I don't see any evidence of that.

So far they are only brave at "barking" at their perceived/imaginary enemies, which is not a sign of emancipation.

As for forming and stating their political views - I don't see any evidence of that either. Their demands are not political in nature (loans, subsidies, free cattle - it's just begging), and they rely entirely on Thaksin's wisdom in solving their problems, they blindly subscribe to TRT/PPP's political platform, without even knowing much about it.

[simplicius]

As for forming and stating their political views - I don't see any evidence of that either. Their demands are not political in nature (loans, subsidies, free cattle - it's just begging), and they rely entirely on Thaksin's wisdom in solving their problems, they blindly subscribe to TRT/PPP's political platform, without even knowing much about it.

One sometimes just sees what one chooses to.

Just because they cannot formulate their views as well as the computerliterate classes here, does not mean that they haven't got any views.

Loans, subsidies, etc., and arguments about those subjects are part of politics anywhere, like it or not. Fringe right wing libertarians all over the world call it "begging" - conservatives, classic liberals and social democrats all over the world work in differing degrees with similar programs.

[chownah]

In my village almost everyone in my neighborhood borrowed 5,000baht from the village fund and my wife reports that they all paid their loans back on time....some of them have borrowed for a second time. My wife doesn't know what they bought but probably things like cell phones, motorcycles, hot showers,.....generally speaking consumer items and farm equipment and supplies.... It seems that what this has done is to give my neighbors a way to avoid paying exorbitant interest to loan sharks which is what they would have done before this program. Evidentally the million baht fund is an ongoing source of low cost short term capitalisation for the people in the village.....does this make it a success?....the villagers here think so. Of course it didn't create any big capitalist revolution here...didn't create any industrial sweat shops where people can act and be treated like cogs in a machine so I'm sure that there are some here who will think that it has been a failure.

Chownah

Your village may be part of a sizeable minority; I think something like 55% of the village funds were never paid back according to some NESDB study, and the majority of funds were not used for micro capital (the aim of the fund) but rather to refinance existing debt to loan sharks or for consumer items - motorcycles, cell phones and hot showers are all discretionary spending and should NOT be encouraged to put people into debt for. Farm equipment, supplies - yes this is the concept of what the money is supposed to be for.

But then again, now you have the farmers lined up for debt forgiveness AGAIN so on average you have to wonder whether anyone should be lending to this line of business, and instead perhaps whether they should be educated and encouraged to do something better.

As with most TRT schemes - seemingly good idea totally screwed over by mysterious forces behind the scenes and unbelievably bad implementation.

Another NESDB study showed many rural folk to be in more debt now than before, as the result of having access to more money, but without skills to budget.

Your village sounds like the concept of how this money could help - sounds great ;-)

To be honest, I am totally confused how successive governments have ignored the rural poor; this was a myth created by TRT, and it reads really well. Reference back to Kukrit AGAIN or Chatichai AGAIN - but oh no, TRT story telling leads us to believe that Thaksin dragged himself up from poverty just like them and is the first PM to ever love and care for them, and not sell the country out to foreigners like Chuan did.

...............

............"

What is NESDB and is there a link so I can read about this study they did?

You may feel that the money was meant for farm equipment and supplies but that is not what the program was created for. It was created for the local people to use in whatever way they wanted...there were no strings attached to it in terms of what it could be used for and frankly it seems that it is mostly the rich urban people who have narrow views about what is appropriate in this regard....the program itself had not restrictions. If it is inappropriate that the money be used for consumer goods then I suppose it is inapporpriate for people to use credit cards too since the way the locals have used their fund is approximately like other people might use a credit card.....seems legitiimate to me....and using the money to pay off high interest loans is a really really good idea and has a direct and immediate benefit of reduced payment schedules..............seems like many here have a very limited idea about what benefits rural folks....probably because they don't really know much about rural folks.

Chownah

[Plus]

To become a political force they need to learn to formulate and articulate their views and they must have their own representatives. Doesn't mean that they haven't got any views, true, but politically they are still in embrio stage.

Loans might be part of politics everywhere, but simply throwing the money at the problem has proven to be useless. They have Africa to demonstrate clearly how it doesn't work.

Asking for loans without proposing any ideas how they would be recouped or how they would be financed for in the first place is NOT as sign of political maturity, maybe a sign of growing up, but not maturity yet.

[Plus]

Chownah, are you attempting to rewrite history as you go along?

"...To many, Dr. Thaksin's election campaign pledge to provide 1 million baht ($24,000) to each of Thailand's 70,000 villages was a populist handout. It's actually a revolving loan program. The program is unique in that it specifically targets projects aimed at stimulating the rural economy. Village leaders and bankers will identify projects and provide loans at 4% interest (commercial farm loans cost 5%-8%) to be guaranteed by community groups. The intent of the $1.6 billion Fund is to enable farmers to increase productivity, and value added, through developing new activities such as processing and packaging. The Fund can also be drawn on by individuals, households or groups to start their own small or micro-enterprises."

http://www.thaksinomics.com/The_Village_Fund.htm

Nowhere does it say it was free for all.

[steveromagnino]

To be honest, I am totally confused how successive governments have ignored the rural poor; this was a myth created by TRT, and it reads really well. Reference back to Kukrit AGAIN or Chatichai AGAIN - but oh no, TRT story telling leads us to believe that Thaksin dragged himself up from poverty just like them and is the first PM to ever love and care for them, and not sell the country out to foreigners like Chuan did.

...

We all believe what we want to believe. Many rural folk currently choose Thaksin ahead of any other person in the Kingdom of Thailand and aren't afraid to say so anymore, despite the seemingly illegal nature of saying things like this.

It is all a question of perception. To stop being confused and to understand the factors that create perception under folks other than ones own immediate social environment one has to interact with the different levels of society - a particularly difficult thing here in this extremely hirarchal society.

What helped TRT to create the 'myth' were the Democrats post '97 - undoubtably they have contributed more to solve the crises than is given them credit for. ....At least TRT did manage to communicate to the villagers creating the perception that their programs were more successful than they actually were (and they were not all bad either).

...an abrasive rightwinger (or a populist crook) will always win an election against a streamline politician who has never uttered an original thought in public, assuming that he actually has that ability.

Regarding your second comment - it is a sign of emancipation that those villagers finally are forming and stating their political views, and dare to disagree. What you or me might judge as wrong - lets not forget that our views are often also formed under a certain ignorance of our opponent's perceptions.

At least these people speak out now - there is hope that Thailand one day might become a democracy.

totally agree with the first part; the point that politicians would do well to note; TRT ran their party like any good marketeer; they did market research, they created a product that was perceived well and they used PR and marketing to ruthlessly promote their successes. They also got the concept of target marketing; they knew Isaan consider Democrats and the south of Thailand with distain, and this probably helped guide their 'happy times' philosophy of painting southerners as terrorists and creating civil disorder which continues to this day then allowing the rest of Thailand to shower them with paper from Double A.

'Here's some civil disorder, watch out for that bomb, and opps a daisy, have a crane.'

The bit I didn't like, and maybe it is just me, was the well documented media intimidation and dismantling every neutral watch dog including the senate, to ensure they received all good coverage - few/none of the civil service dared to speak out either - with no possibilities for review, censure or feedback other than what they claimed themselves including in the house.

The coup and the Democrats didn't grab the ball and run with it when given the chance, u are quite right about that. The Dems need to grow a pair and get frigging down and dirty.

I am not 100% sure that the villagers understand their new hero did not dedicate most of his life fairly selflessly trying to make their life a better one; not always the best choices along the way, but the best choices possible under the circumstances. By comparison their new hero considers them to be a pawn and a means to an end. Sadly, without the watchdogs and review, how will the poor ever know what they need?

My biggest hope is to get out of the cycle we are in and have a genuine leader that genuinely cares for the people from Isaan. I don't say poor, because it is a fact that the poor in the south of THailand were truly screwed over under TRT.

Their biggest hope is to form a regional voting block with a farmer's party that has specific demands. Then get into a coalition government and push their view.

HOwever, the reality is that the biggest crooks are people like Newin Chitchob and these family dynasties have not changed in 20 years, and the reality most farang really won't like, is that the rural poor in Buriram LOVE guys like Newin. Newin = TRT. Therefore I will vote TRT. If Newin had been some other party (and the family used to be) they would vote for that party. Because that is what they are told to do.

At least TRT to some extent marginalised some of these family dynasties; I think THAT is the beginning of democracy. But man oh man it has a long way to go.

[steveromagnino]

What is NESDB and is there a link so I can read about this study they did?

....If it is inappropriate that the money be used for consumer goods then I suppose it is inapporpriate for people to use credit cards too since the way the locals have used their fund is approximately like other people might use a credit card.....seems legitiimate to me....and using the money to pay off high interest loans is a really really good idea and has a direct and immediate benefit of reduced payment schedules..............seems like many here have a very limited idea about what benefits rural folks....probably because they don't really know much about rural folks.

NESDB = National Economic and Social Development Board.

According to many here, they would be an instrument of the fabled Bangkok Elite that no one seems to actually know.

One of the better sources of research, and despite MASSIVE interference from TRT (as was the case with every research house even including the universities during TRT early years) they kept pumping out measurement and resaerch into a variety of topics.

Somewhere in the Thai section is a journal article analysing default rates; I will attempt to find the article I am referring for you,but my Thai reading skills aren't so hot - bear with me:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTTHAI...pt#293,1,Record, Need for Change, Constraints, and Strategies

this is fairly typical stuff they do; what you MIGHT find interesting in this study (about why the NE is so poor) is that the TRT govt did not increase capital spending in the NE at least in this period - i.e. no rural irrigation schemes, no infrastructure for roading, no changes to BOI - i.e. the things that would actually create nett new jobs and competitiveness in the NE were simply not done!

And I know exactly why...because the voters didn't ask for that; they asked for trees, loans, healthcare, etc. Needs vs. wants.

As an aside, initally, TRT were very proud to boast of the low default rate of the village fund early on as NESDB studied the default rate after a yuear or so and it was super low, but become more quiet later on. All banks and lending institutions (speaking as an ex banker here) enjoy low default rates early on, it is whether you can keep those low rates going that tests you out - in the case of the village fund, early on some of the money was not lent out, some was paid back, it is only after 5 years when you can see whether the fund is sustainable or not.

After all, it was 70+ billion baht if I recall correctly. This money could have been spent in many other ways such as decent education or whatever. Anyway, was it even government money ? Like many of the soft loans to companies and TMAC, this was misuse of GSB money - government savings bank run by the MOF wasn't it? Same as KTB and a few other government banks have buried messes thanks to TRT.

Since GSB's NPLs are rising (now up to 3.82% at year end 2006) somewhere in the realm of 18 billion baht, much of which is probably the village fund (total guess here, more than 50%) we can safely say that eventually the truth will come out via GSB's balance sheet, and it is not going to be pretty; banks wait until the VERY last minute before declaring a loan an NPL.

I suppose, the argument is all governments waste money, so why not waste it on this. Problem was TRT wasted money on things even more pointless than this, such as the diesel subsidy (even a stuanch TRT supporter could not possibly find a single way to justify this vote grabbing exercise) and so it was no surprise that not long after the election win, they discontinued it, having personally profited as PTT/Thai Oil shareholders at 35b per share.

From personal experience in Buriram, the villagers in our area had a series of massive parties, most spent the money on discretionary items such as motorcycles, phones, etc with the money, and in the last 2-3 years some have lost their houses, land plots and ended up owing more to loan sharks than before. But then again, maybe they should have been told the skill of budgeting and so on prior to borrowing the money. LIke what would have happened with a proper micro credit scheme. Ah well, I suppose it doesn't matter, being that at least in Buriram, the Chitchob family also control much of the money lending and land ownership and land rental anyway.

Coincidentally, convenience store, motorcycle and liquor sales during the 'priming the pump' phase of rural spending when the village fund was implemented were all very very strong; if any of these items are good examples of what micro credit is supposed to acheive, then I think we have quite different ideas of what they plan was sold to do.

Edited February 5, 2008 by steveromagnino

[A_Traveller]

I find it interesting that those discussing economic policy and its affects are unaware of such critical organisations as NESDB, however one point to be aware of here, is that it is virtually impossible to get raw 'unanalysed' data in Thailand. There's for example, no equivalent of the UK's Blue Book, nor independent core analysis, since, to be fair, as in other less developed economies, the raw data sets are classified, literally, as a state secret, and access to them is strictly controlled. Some key data are disseminated to external institutions, e.g. BoT to BIS, but under a non-disclosure format.

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited February 5, 2008 by A_Traveller

[simplicius]

totally agree with the first part; the point that politicians would do well to note; TRT ran their party like any good marketeer; they did market research, they created a product that was perceived well and they used PR and marketing to ruthlessly promote their successes. They also got the concept of target marketing; they knew Isaan consider Democrats and the south of Thailand with distain, and this probably helped guide their 'happy times' philosophy of painting southerners as terrorists and creating civil disorder which continues to this day then allowing the rest of Thailand to shower them with paper from Double A.

'Here's some civil disorder, watch out for that bomb, and opps a daisy, have a crane.'

The bit I didn't like, and maybe it is just me, was the well documented media intimidation and dismantling every neutral watch dog including the senate, to ensure they received all good coverage - few/none of the civil service dared to speak out either - with no possibilities for review, censure or feedback other than what they claimed themselves including in the house.

The coup and the Democrats didn't grab the ball and run with it when given the chance, u are quite right about that. The Dems need to grow a pair and get frigging down and dirty.

I am not 100% sure that the villagers understand their new hero did not dedicate most of his life fairly selflessly trying to make their life a better one; not always the best choices along the way, but the best choices possible under the circumstances. By comparison their new hero considers them to be a pawn and a means to an end. Sadly, without the watchdogs and review, how will the poor ever know what they need?

My biggest hope is to get out of the cycle we are in and have a genuine leader that genuinely cares for the people from Isaan. I don't say poor, because it is a fact that the poor in the south of THailand were truly screwed over under TRT.

Their biggest hope is to form a regional voting block with a farmer's party that has specific demands. Then get into a coalition government and push their view.

HOwever, the reality is that the biggest crooks are people like Newin Chitchob and these family dynasties have not changed in 20 years, and the reality most farang really won't like, is that the rural poor in Buriram LOVE guys like Newin. Newin = TRT. Therefore I will vote TRT. If Newin had been some other party (and the family used to be) they would vote for that party. Because that is what they are told to do.

At least TRT to some extent marginalised some of these family dynasties; I think THAT is the beginning of democracy. But man oh man it has a long way to go.

The problem is, that the Southerners do consider people of Isaarn and the North with at least as much disdain. The South has several distinct advantages though - such as a far better economical situation due to tourism and better agricultural possibilities due to more water, etc.

There is far less abject poverty in the South than in the North and Isaarn. So, for example rubber tappers can make about 500 to 1000 Baht a day, even in the conflict zone in the deep South. That opposed to between 100 Baht and 200 baht a day in the short season in Isaarn and the North. Out of necessity any Thai government has to focus on solving the very complex problems in Isaarn and the North.

Newin is an infamous crook. Unfortunately in every party and institution in Thailand are similar crooks to be found. Yes, it will be a very long way to go. TRT, Thaksin, the Democrats are in the end not really important in that sense - regardless of who sits in government - there is trouble ahead. The trouble did not start with Thaksin, nor will it end with him.

Most villagers, apart from the fanatics, are far more aware of Thaksin's faults than most here give them credit for. Their perception was that for a change they are not ignored by the establishment. They have a right to this perception, especially given what happened after '97.

The Democrats had their faults, and because of them Thaksin was elected. It was inevitable. Thaksin had his faults and was ousted. And the real issues were never adressed properly by the last government. Neither could they convince enough people of their dubious legitimacy - and PPP got enough votes to form a government.

Anybody who has a problem with that should stop whining about PPP - TRT - Thaksin, and try convince the Democrats to pull their fingers out of their noses. Don't blame Thaksin for having been elected - blame the Democrats for not having done enough.

These elections they had all advantages given by the military to penetate the rural areas, but again they chose to be boring visionless technocrats.

[sriracha john]

Rubber tappers making 1,000 baht a day in the South???

Might I inquire as to the source of that little nugget?

Edited February 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[Plus]

Most villagers, apart from the fanatics, are far more aware of Thaksin's faults than most here give them credit for. Their perception was that for a change they are not ignored by the establishment.

It's not just that they have been noticed by Thaksin, that is only part of the change. The most worrying part is the way Thaksin engaged them - now they don't want the government to help them grow, they want the establishment to provide them with easy life.

They don't care how it's going to be achieved, they just want it to happen. With a mindset like that the country is doomed.

Don't blame Thaksin for having been elected - blame the Democrats for not having done enough.

People with the mindset like that are not going to vote for Democrats, the current government is a true representation of people's aspirations. Democrats are too good for this country, they just don't fit.

Looking at the new Cabinet one could say that they country is gone to the dogs. They have absolutely no idea and no respect for principles of sound governing. It's distilled nepotism of the highest degree, and it's a democratic choice at the same time, no argument abou that. Lunatics took over the asylum.

[Johpa]

The VAT is the ONLY way you are going to get any tax from the corrupt officials. If they would figure out how to tax corruption the treasury would be bursting. At least with the populist policies, a little trickled down to the VERY poor people and many of elite ruling class resent that. Much, perhaps most income is hidden and no tax is paid. Why do you suppose most professional politicians are unusually wealthy? Thaksin's opposition hates him because he was smarter than they were. He found ways to manipulate the law to make his thievery legal where the majority simply steal and then maintain the good old boy network. You don't tell on me and I won't tell on you. Why do you think the military government spent over a year trying to prosecute Thaksin?

Praise the gods that at least one ex-pat living in Loei (one of my favorite provinces) understands that nobody (only the really seubeu folks) is paying any income tax in Thailand.

A huge part of the economy is hidden. I recommend reading Achaan Pasuk's Guns, Girls, Gambling, Ganja for more insight, although don't forget the smuggling of oil which financed at least one former Prime Minister. Some of the profits from these financial sectors are used to pay for votes, some is used to obtain personal luxuries, and most is simply sent offshore into the welcoming arms of the western bankers. But a politician must have access to vast quantities of cash to succeed, thus Thai politicians generally are funded and backed by the illegal markets as well as the monopolies. The only thing Thaksin did to piss off his peers was that he did not share enough in the spoils, he didn't give them their rightful quantities of crumbs. And worse, he gave even smaller crumbs to the poor. That was unpardonable in the eyes of all sectors of the Bangkok elite.

As regressive as they may be, VAT taxes and sales taxes at least touch some income, even the income of the undeclared sort. And in case you neo-sahibs forget, the rural poor long paid taxes by being paid below market rate for the fruits of their labor.

[younghusband]

The VAT is the ONLY way you are going to get any tax from the corrupt officials. If they would figure out how to tax corruption the treasury would be bursting. At least with the populist policies, a little trickled down to the VERY poor people and many of elite ruling class resent that. Much, perhaps most income is hidden and no tax is paid. Why do you suppose most professional politicians are unusually wealthy? Thaksin's opposition hates him because he was smarter than they were. He found ways to manipulate the law to make his thievery legal where the majority simply steal and then maintain the good old boy network. You don't tell on me and I won't tell on you. Why do you think the military government spent over a year trying to prosecute Thaksin?

Praise the gods that at least one ex-pat living in Loei (one of my favorite provinces) understands that nobody (only the really seubeu folks) is paying any income tax in Thailand.

A huge part of the economy is hidden. I recommend reading Achaan Pasuk's Guns, Girls, Gambling, Ganja for more insight, although don't forget the smuggling of oil which financed at least one former Prime Minister. Some of the profits from these financial sectors are used to pay for votes, some is used to obtain personal luxuries, and most is simply sent offshore into the welcoming arms of the western bankers. But a politician must have access to vast quantities of cash to succeed, thus Thai politicians generally are funded and backed by the illegal markets as well as the monopolies. The only thing Thaksin did to piss off his peers was that he did not share enough in the spoils, he didn't give them their rightful quantities of crumbs. And worse, he gave even smaller crumbs to the poor. That was unpardonable in the eyes of all sectors of the Bangkok elite.

As regressive as they may be, VAT taxes and sales taxes at least touch some income, even the income of the undeclared sort. And in case you neo-sahibs forget, the rural poor long paid taxes by being paid below market rate for the fruits of their labor.

A great couple of posts making succinctly and powerfully several important points that are rarely seen here.I love that term "neo sahibs" which describes perfectly a certain school of thought.Actually it's a disservice to the real sahibs who, despite their high caste (another important difference from the neo-sahibs) in many cases had a sense of noblesse oblige and a genuine concern for the deprived and the unfortunate.

[Plus]

That book was written about a decade ago. Times have changed. Thaksin has squeezed that kind of funding for political parties, AND he expanded tax base.

But it's interesting to note that some people think that it's only "seubeu" who pay taxes. Are they the same people who demand more government spending to satisfy their needs (or is it wants?). Are they the same people who are allegedly became "political" now?

VAT is usually viewed as a tax on poor, btw, because of the flat, not progressive rate. Another kind of tax on poor is lottery. Thaksin used part of that money to finance vote winning, populits policies.

I hope one day those "politically active" farmers realise they have been bribed with their own money.

[sriracha john]

National Health Committee Warns of Medical Hub Ambition’s Drawback

A medical expert is warning that Thailand’s dream of becoming a regional medical hub could pose serious threat to the local health system. National Health Committee Secretary-General Dr. Ampol Chindawattana said that a shortage of quality medical personnel has long been an issue for the entire world, including Thailand.

Even though the kingdom has been continuously introducing a number of medical doctors and nurses after all these years, most of them ended up working in big cities instead of the upcountry areas. Consequently, the provinces have been suffering inadequate medical staff, especially with the government’s introduction of the universal health care program that only draw more patients to a small pool of physicians.

Further education towards specialization and bureaucracy are also among factors that have led to too few number of health care personnel in most parts of Thailand. And, with the ambition of seeing the country as a new regional medical hub, health care has become a more serious business that invests more cash in recruiting doctors and nurses, the situation that simply worsens local health care situation.

Dr. Ampol stated that during the past few years, hundreds of medical staff have left for big corporations already. He now calls for a more systematic approach to solve the problem, under the guidance of the 2007 to 2016 National Health Strategy that focuses on developing new health care personnel through collaboration with the private sector.

The National Health Committee will hold a meeting with related agencies, both from the state and the private sector, next week to discuss approaches towards a better health care system in Thailand.

- Thailand Outlook

[Dove]

Thaksin's "flawed perception" examined

A SCHOLAR reflected that ousted premier of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra's expensive

e-government initiatives may have collapsed due to his flawed perception of what constituted governance.

Tippawan Lorsuwannarat, a speaker at the Eastern Regional Organisation of Public Administration (Eropa) seminar being held in Brunei, discussed what she believed to be the mistakes in Thaksin's e-government policy initially intended to govern the industry, commerce, education and society of Thailand electronically.

Included in the mistakes was spending 97 per cent of a "very large budget'' on purchasing the technology and using the remaining 3 per cent for training people how to use the technology, she said. *Well done, Thakky...

The staff member of the National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA) in Bangkok, Thailand, estimated only 15 per cent of the e-government initiatives approved by Thaksin were successful, *because they were so splendidly thought out... and believed that this was due to Thaksin's failure to comprehend the intrinsics of e-governance.

*I'd venture to guess there's a few hundred thousand other things that Thakky fails to comprehend beyond the intrinsics of e-goverance.

She said that e-governance was normally misconstrued with 'e-government'. The term refers to paperless systems of administration allowing painless access, storage and dissemination of data across government agencies.

"E-governance links e-government and its broader environment in the political, social and administration context,'' she explained. Her paper clarified that "governments are institutions which contribute to governance''.

In 2002, Thaksin launched the ambitious project Information Communication Technology Master Plan , with an expected completion date of 2005.

The main objective was to implement an electronic government that extended to industry, commerce, education and society in Thailand. Unfortunately, Thaksin had completely disregarded the need to develop a knowledgeable culture amongst Thai citizens to prepare them *so much for being a man of great vision... for the upheaval and he had only considered "official'' satisfaction, she said. For example, Thailand's legislative system was ill-equipped to defend citizens against frauds.

"Because people didn't understand [something as basic as] how to protect their passwords, 900,000 baht was stolen by government servants.''

The lack of standards across government agencies to accommodate data-sharing, a dearth of public cooperation, and the low computer and English literacy of most residents in rural areas, eventually led to the humiliating demise of Thaksin's major e-government projects, she said.

- The Brunei Times

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin's legacy... Incompetence coupled with greed...

I simply agree about the misappropriation of funds on e-government projects during Thaksin's time. There are those in the civil service who could not wait to jump on the band wagon for their own personal gains. I came across this site of the Department of Land Transport while searching for information on transportation license.

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/

The main feature of the Lamphun Land transport office website features the ambition of it's head to further her goals. I see no other government sites featuring the so many pictures of a person making it look like a personal website. First her face is shown on the right hand corner of the page then featured again in the pictures in the pages listed below. I am told that she is the head of the department and promotes safety. I am told by my friend that she speaks in public regularly and appears in the news like a spokesperson herself. Whatever it is the acts in the pictures are personal and the message projected is totally false and undesirable.

Further at the cost of fuel, the government is spending it on their staff to visit shrines and offer offerings to monks at the expense of tax payers.

I cannot imagine a government department so proud of displaying to the world on the internet of its abuse of funding within the thin disguise of attending to safety education and government forums.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_images...icons/icon7.gif

Perhaps it is people like this that will go far in a Thaksin regime.

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-75.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-74.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-65.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-64.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-62.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-61.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-57.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-56.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-43.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-42.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-36.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-50.htm

http://www.dlt.go.th/lamphun/news/news50-49.htm

Please spend government funds wisely and not for personal goal!!!!

Annoyed lady Dove.

[Tony Clifton]

Yet another Thai govt. website designed as if it was destined for children with a funny looking font.

Click around on government websites. Some pages look like school projects, overloaded with graphics, animated trains, cartoons and teddy bears that have absolutely nothing to do with the content, others contain dead links, and each ministry has it's own design and look, all the colours of the rainbow, as if they were destined for children. As usual, more emphasis is put on presentation, content comes second. Then it really makes you wonder about security when government websites are developed as hundreds of different projects instead of one uniform e-government project. This e-government project under Thaksin was highly praised but a total failure.

Open the link below and then open a dozen of links each time in a new window. Once they've all loaded, go between windows and see for yourself how each ministry seems to be from a different country, if it wasn't for the Thai font.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/th.html

Still a lot to learn when government employees openly argue in the media as to why they refuse to stop using Hotmail-Gmail-Yahoo for work, although part of that can be so that outsiders can access private/secret information by selling the passwords to highest bidders.

[Dove]

Yet another Thai govt. website designed as if it was destined for children with a funny looking font.

Click around on government websites. Some pages look like school projects, overloaded with graphics, animated trains, cartoons and teddy bears that have absolutely nothing to do with the content, others contain dead links, and each ministry has it's own design and look, all the colours of the rainbow, as if they were destined for children. As usual, more emphasis is put on presentation, content comes second. Then it really makes you wonder about security when government websites are developed as hundreds of different projects instead of one uniform e-government project. This e-government project under Thaksin was highly praised but a total failure.

Open the link below and then open a dozen of links each time in a new window. Once they've all loaded, go between windows and see for yourself how each ministry seems to be from a different country, if it wasn't for the Thai font.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/th.html

Still a lot to learn when government employees openly argue in the media as to why they refuse to stop using Hotmail-Gmail-Yahoo for work, although part of that can be so that outsiders can access private/secret information by selling the passwords to highest bidders.

Many of the government websites are dead. At the cost of oil they should be exemplary by shutting these sites to save power.

Many Thai officials were riding the clouds, so to speak. There was a lot of hot air when Thaksin ruled. He first threatened the civil service and then uplifted the morale of the civil service and as a charismatic speaker he was , he conned many into selling their souls. Costing the country to waste much resources by unnecessary spending to highlight the governments works at least on the surface only.

Did you know that the government spent many hours on national agenda traveling to neighboring provinces to meet and meetings and up to day many of their hours are spent on meetings, fire fighting? Nothing still seems to work. It is just a waste of time. They work through lunch, work late but all for un productive reasons and government expense.

The Thai civil service is made up of too many old hard core managers that are unable to adapt but are holding on to their post and defending it. Many are old spinsters who do not understand what is family life. Many are myopic to understand that the staff wants what they want. Many are made to work weekends at the expense of family life and values, hence the many problems with youth, there is no parent guidance as the government practices poor parenting skills. Perhaps the new government would need to rethink their work policies and reform the self made heroines and heros.

Lastly I was fascinated to look at the bottom of the site is a telephone number that is never answered like most Thai government sites.

Just a waste of money.

[sriracha john]

Thank you for your insights, Dove.

Good to see you posting again.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's legacy... breaking the Treasury with his scams

2007 BUDGET

Populist schemes listed as debts

Govt fears huge state liabilities could blow out

The previous administration's off-budget populist schemes such as one-million cows, village fund, farm product price support and SML will be listed as public debts in order to manage the risks of them spinning into huge financial losses for the government.

Pongpanu Svetarundra, director-general of the Public Debt Management Office, said yesterday his office had completed a study, as assigned by the interim government, to oversee all government projects including those not subject to normal budget processes.

"We just started to look into these SPV [special purpose vehicle] projects because the new government wants to show them on the balance sheet. Our office did not incorporate them under the previous government, as they did not rely on public financing. However, if they were unable to repay debts and would then be related to the budget, we would need to take care of them," he said.

The Special Purpose Vehicles could not take responsibility for their debts on their own, he said, which left open the possibility taxpayers' money might be needed to rescue them.

SPVs are limited-purpose companies set up to fund projects and designed to be self-supporting financially with their own source of revenue.

"We oversee the public debt," Pongpanu said. "So, we help give guidelines on what should be included in the public debt. If they create anything that would be counted as public debt in the future, we will have to take responsibility for that."

The interim government has been determined to clear debts incurred from the previous regime's populist policies. In fiscal 2007 alone, Bt85.5 billion of bad debts will be settled, while the remaining unpaid bills - "not a large number" - will be carried over to later fiscal years.

Of the Bt85.5 billion, the biggest chunk, Bt23.08 billion, is from the government's liability for principal and interest on loans taken out by the Farmers Rehabilitation and Development Fund for the rice-pledging programme by the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC).

The debt from Village Funds is Bt13.16 billion, while the deficit from the universal health scheme was Bt7.76 billion.

The Bt85.5 billion of unpaid debts will be booked as part of government's expenses in the current fiscal budget, which is Bt177.58 billion in total. To make room, other current expenses will be cut down and the deficit for the 2007 fiscal year increased from Bt100 billion to Bt146 billion.

Deputy Premier and Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula said the Thaksin Shinawatra government committed fiscal mismanagement by not settling its debts on an annual basis.

The interim government would eliminate all outstanding liabilities in order to preserve fiscal discipline, he said. If damages occurred and the government declined to compensate agencies, they would suffer from a lack of budget and wouldn't be able to manage their activities.

"In the past, the government would settle all losses from the rice-pledging programme via the BAAC every year. But over the past three to four years, the government has left them unpaid. Then, we need to clean up and get things back on track," he said.

The unpaid bills left by the last government will be mostly paid off in this fiscal year (2007). There are still other leftover liabilities, such as the remaining village funds - Bt16.21 billion. They will be paid off every year until fiscal 2009, along with unknown costs from the rice and longan price-support schemes in fiscal 2006, and a few billion baht from the Ua Athorn low-cost housing project.

The remaining burden was not large and the interim government would continue to help farmers, he said. Supporting agricultural commodity prices would leave the government short, but it could manage, he said.

However, further assistance to farmers must be efficient, particularly to limit government stocks of farm goods. If the government guaranteed too high a price compared to the market, it would be difficult to unload its inventory.

Pridiyathorn said earlier the rice price guaranteed by the Thaksin government was too high, which created problems and forced this government to lower it.

Chaturon Chaisang, acting Thai Rak Thai Party leader, on Wednesday defended the Thaksin government, claiming Pridiyathorn's comments on the previous government's fiscal discipline were groundless.

Chaturon said the Thaksin government ran a balanced budget over its last two years, and that it was impossible to claim it was a free spender as accused by this government.

He said the subsidies the previous government gave to farmers were very small compared to debts derived from bailing out large corporations and financial institutions.

Pridiyathorn said the government would issue bonds to finance this year's budget deficit, which would boost public debt by 2-3 per cent, which was still acceptable. The debt-servicing ratio is 13 per cent of the total budget, which is still lower than the 16-per-cent ceiling.

The Surayud government also plans to upgrade operating standards of the specialised state banks, which were used by the Thaksin government to fund its populist policies.

The Nation

-----------------------------------------------------

UPDATE... going back for more...

BAAC proposes debt suspension

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) will seek Cabinet approval soon for a debt-suspension plan for farmers to reduce its non-performing loans and create new appropriate careers for them.

At the moment the bank has more than two million debtors, most of them farmers. Under the plan, BAAC targets 40 per cent of total debtors or 400,000 farmers to join in its debt suspension programme and the remainder would be considered for debt reduction.

The value of the debt under the targeted debt-suspension programme has reached 20 Billion Baht. The bank wants to have a financial subsidy from the government's budget of 1 Billion - 1.5 Billion Baht each year throughout the three-year programme.

The strategy will pave the way for the bank to concentrate more on small and medium-sized debtors. They will also have the same assistance measures to encourage farmers to generate sustainable income.

BAAC president Thirapong Tangthirasunan said the bank would also seek Cabinet approval to reduce the interest rate to good debtors 1-3 per cent from the current rate. The bank's total good debtors number 1.4 million-1.5 million farmers.*1/4 of debtors are in default?*

"We have to design new debt-restructuring criteria to facilitate debt suspension in order to find the right way to treat serious case farmers, otherwise we will face a rising number of debtors," Thirapong said.

The bank's proposed debt-suspension programme is different from the one of the past five or six years. At the moment, commodity goods prices are high so farmers have higher income.

"Although farmers' payment ability is getting better due to increasing prices of farm crops, we have to manage business opportunities for them," he said, pointing out that the bank wants to reduce non-performing loans. "We will suggest that our customers undertake diversified businesses rather than continue farming if it's found they are losing competitiveness."

The bank will inspect its debtors' past payment performance for a few years as well as a survey of which crops they grow. Then the bank will propose an appropriate debt suspension programme to them. If they are found raising unprofitable crops, the bank will suggest that they phase out their farms.

The process is expected to take no more than six months. Farmers will have a three-year debt suspension. The bank should prepare some measures to assist them after the programme expires. "We have to ensure that those debtors are able to pay their debts in the fourth year," Thirapong said.

- The Nation (today)

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's legacy... breaking the Treasury with his scams

Government fears huge state liabilities could blow out

They will be paid off every year until fiscal 2009, along with unknown costs from longan price-support schemes, and a few billion baht from the Ua Athorn low-cost housing project.

90 Million Baht to destroy mortgaged longan

The Cabinet has approved a proposal to destroy all longan stocks mortgaged during the government of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003 and 2004, at an estimated cost of 90 Million Baht.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Tuesday the stored fruit could no longer even be used as fertiliser. It must be destroyed to prevent officials from ever again intervening in the prices of agricultural goods without careful management, he said.

He said the longan mortgage scheme had cost three billion to four Billion Baht in total, and

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-09

Edited June 12, 2009 by sabaijai
EDITORIALISING REMOVED

[sriracha john]

He said the longan mortgage scheme had cost three billion to four Billion Baht in total, and

today, a more precise fine-tuning of the total costs now...

Government agrees to pay 90 Million Baht to destroy rotten longan

Worthless stocks of dried longan left over from a scandal-tainted mortgage scheme initiated by the Thaksin government will be destroyed at a cost of 90 Million Baht.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the Cabinet had approved the destruction of the fruit harvested between 2003 and 2004 and worth originally 4.8 Billion Baht.

Mr Abhisit yesterday said the move was meant to ensure the old stocks were not mixed with this year's crop, which could affect the price of longan. Mr Abhisit said the longan mortgage scheme was an important lesson.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-10

[brahmburgers]

Thaksin's legacy... breaking the Treasury with his scams

Government fears huge state liabilities could blow out

They will be paid off every year until fiscal 2009, along with unknown costs from longan price-support schemes, and a few billion baht from the Ua Athorn low-cost housing project.

90 Million Baht to destroy mortgaged longan

The Cabinet has approved a proposal to destroy all longan stocks mortgaged during the government of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003 and 2004, at an estimated cost of 90 Million Baht.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Tuesday the stored fruit could no longer even be used as fertiliser. It must be destroyed to prevent officials from ever again intervening in the prices of agricultural goods without careful management, he said.

He said the longan mortgage scheme had cost three billion to four Billion Baht in total, and

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-09

I don't get it. Is the old longan radioactive? Has it become Thailand's 'Love Canal'?

Heck, if the project is open to bids, I'll destroy the stuff for 89 million baht, and put 88 million in my pocket. Is that ok? I'll hire some tractors to dig some big ditches, and dump the stuff in there, cover it up, plant some trees on top, and voila, job done.

[mogoso]

So listed companies benefited during Thaksin's rule. Funny that he declared he was working for the benefit of the poor all this time.

Everyone knows that it was only a facade, he represented interests of big business, and they were the ones to reap the benefits, not the farmers.

Perhaps my understanding of tax revenues and how they are spent is wrong. Lets see you spur economic activitiy, tax the proceeds, and then spend the money where it'll help your country the most. If that means spending on the poor rural much more than they've contributed, that seems fair. Uplifting the poor through programs of health, education, small loans ect doesn't seem such a waste as it'll only improve your base populace.

A country needs a viable private sector business base that can be allowed to profit, look at what China has done. I certainly would want my country to have a pro private business sector president, but alas it doesn't.

[Scott]

Perhaps they could put the longnan on the pile of confiscated drugs the next time they have one of those drug burning parties. I think it would be a lot cheaper.

Or, maybe this is a money making scheme for some politicians?

[Plus]

Lets see you spur economic activitiy, tax the proceeds, and then spend the money where it'll help your country the most.

That is true, that is what Thaksin has done and it worked brilliantly for a first couple of years before the effect of that massive bailout had worn off.

The thing is that the gap between rich and poot, haves and have nots increased dramatically, too, and the assumption is that this is not what Thailand needs.

Also the problem with Thaksin social programmes was that they were never meant to be anything more than vote grabbing schemes. Cheap healthcare put hospitals in deep red, no new equipment, no doctors, forever stuck in the late 90s Thai standard, while private hospitals for the rich claimed international level of care for prices prohibitive to the rest of the population.

Education was the most neglected area, no progress in six years whatsoever, not enough votes from that, I guess.

Otop scheme proved to be unsustainable, too, and perpetual debt forgiveness made it a legitimate electoral demand - write off the loans or we'll vote for someone else.

Agricultural subsidies got nowhere with artificially high prices harming everyone in the long run.

By 2006 it was clear that "dual track" development was a flop and Thaksin had run out of ideas.

[sriracha john]

excerpts from:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...so-badly-flawed

EDITORIAL

A scheme so badly flawed

Expressing his dissatisfaction again at the crop mortgage programme, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the longan, which were bought in the years 2003 and 2004 during the Thaksin administration at a cost of 4.8 Billion Baht, were so rotten that they could not even be turned into fertiliser and had to be destroyed. He warned that this scandal should serve as a valuable lesson for the authorities concerned about how the crop mortgage scheme is to be managed in the future in order to prevent a recurrence of financial damage to the state.

Mr Abhisit's good intentions aside, it is doubtful the lesson from the longan scandal will ever be learned by those responsible for the crop mortgage scheme - from corrupt politicians at the local and national levels, corrupt government officials and bankers, down to the farmers themselves at the bottom of the pecking order who have treated the scheme as if it were a treasure trove waiting to be plundered by whoever has the stickiest fingers. The likelihood is that his warning will fall on deaf ears.

There was an evil smell about the longan scheme from the very beginning. Also, there are more mysteries to the controversy which have yet to be resolved, for instance the 50,000 tonnes of dried longan that have mysteriously gone missing and whether the figure of 300,000 tonnes of fresh longan bought under the scheme was intentionally inflated.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-11

[hammered]

Argh dependency culture. As long as you are dependent on me