Desperate British family begs for help to bring dying sister home from Thailand

[Briggsy]

Usually you would bring someone back to the UK or to their home country to get long term care, to be next to their family, to get better care, etc. Not fly them back at highly unusual costs (that you cannot pay) just so you can pull the plug.

If you really look at the article, it seems the family is complaining that this is mostly inconvenient for them. The poor lady has 3 adult sisters, and a partner? who left her here .. these are people 50-60 years old, not too old to travel, not strapped with 5 infants at home, should have a few assets, a credit card or two, know how to manage a thing or two in life ...

Not one person can come here, unplug her, get her cremated, negotiate the bill, try to make some payments, etc?

I completely agree with you, amykat.

However you need to factor in the current British mentality amongst large swathes of the population that :-

Health care (in its broadest definition) is free. (It effectively is if you are on benefits)

Complaining loudly that something is unfair is the way to go. (It works in the UK)

All costs over £100 are somebody else's problem and should be dealt with by them "since how can ordinary people afford them". (Again denying the existence of savings and assets, if you have any, is an effective strategy in the UK)

[Tomtomtom69]

Do they run up bills without Insurance or pre-payment?

I thought you had to pay in advance.

Pay in advance if you're dying? Definitely not. In China maybe but not in Thailand.

In a situation like this one, what usually happens is that after a while, the hospital will try to find a way of determining if the patient has insurance and if not, whether they can find a way of contacting a relative to make payment.

In case a patient makes it through their ordeal and hasn't made payment yet, the hospital could hold the patient for ransom, so to speak.

[roamer]

The biggest lump of tourist (apart from the usual poor backpacker) are elder people who, after a life of working and hardship, are able to make a holiday to the destination they always have been dreaming about.

Unfortunately, these elder people suffer already of some diseases.

Some inherent to the elder age and some others inherent to the job they have been doing for many years.

The point is that NO insurance company will validate a claim for a hospitalization for an existing disease.

This nullifies the cost of an expensive medical insurance which at the end will not pay a dime if something happens.

I agree with the posters who claim that Thailand (and other travel destinations) should not be held responsible if something happens to this people and the hospital will ask them to pay their bills before leaving the hospital.

But travelling without insurance is maybe the only resource these elder people have to see their dream be fulfilled before they die.

IMHO, when people reach the age of retirement and put a life of hard labour behind them, their own country should take care of them if something happens while on holiday.

Their own country has billions of $$$$$ to feed and house some immigrants who have never contributed to the Social Security of their country but has not 40,000 BP for his own citizens?

"The point is that NO insurance company will validate a claim for a hospitalization for an existing disease."

I often wonder why people who don't know what they are talking about feel the need to emphasise it in caps ? And you are talking absolute complete rubbish.

There are many insurance companies out there that cover existing illnesses, in fact many conditions are covered with no increase in premiums if declared, asthma, arthritis (the only ilness mentioned in this case). For more serious conditions cover is available at a higher premium, still a relatively small amount within the cost of the overall travel budget. Even more so if USA etc is excluded.

This is travel insurance, not life insurance or health insurance, it's for a finite period of time and the risks can be assessed accordingly. Any insurance underwriter will tell you that young people on motorcycles pose a bigger statistical risk with high attendant hospital costs than many properly evaluated existing medical conditions.

Edited June 28, 2016 by roamer

[Tomtomtom69]

Maybe she couldnt get insured or she wouldnt be covered if she left her home town ( due to better care & facilities ) an ins company policy )

Just had that happen in Auss

If it was a pre-existing condition then the insurance would not cover.

Wrong. Depends on the condition. Many are covered while others require the payment of an additional premium. Depends on what this lady has, though it only says "arthritis" which is really nothing. I have never heard of arthritis causing death.

As usual, this senstionalist headline leaves out the important details like 1) what caused her to collapse 2) what serious medical issues does she have.

[impulse]

1) She may have bought travel insurance. How would anyone know for sure if she's unresponsive in a hospital? I never tell my family all my details when I travel.

2) She's not the one asking to be bailed out of her situation. She may be perfectly willing to accept whatever consequences life hands her.

3) Just because you've got a pre-existing condition, doesn't mean you don't have dreams that deserve to be fulfilled- even if it means taking a risk.

[Patsycat]

A friend of mine died in Thailand earlier this year. His sister spent his last few days with him, he was cremated in Thailand and she took his ashes home. Where they will have a memorial for him.

The fact that none of her family are with her, is very sad.

Flight costs can be so cheap nowadays, they already have 800 pounds of donations (not much). Why doesn't someone use that to fly to be with her?

If it was my sister, that's what i would do. Beg, steal and borrow to be with her.

Instead of phaphing around trying to raise 36,000.

I would think, in any country, a member of your family has to be there to turn the machines off.

[impulse]

A friend of mine died in Thailand earlier this year. His sister spent his last few days with him, he was cremated in Thailand and she took his ashes home. Where they will have a memorial for him.

The fact that none of her family are with her, is very sad.

Flight costs can be so cheap nowadays, they already have 800 pounds of donations (not much). Why doesn't someone use that to fly to be with her?

If it was my sister, that's what i would do. Beg, steal and borrow to be with her.

Instead of phaphing around trying to raise 36,000.

I would think, in any country, a member of your family has to be there to turn the machines off.

Good point, but not knowing what the laws are, I'd be afraid I'd get to Thailand and be stuck here myself when I identified myself as a family member and the hospital handed me the 36K (and rising) bill. Or maybe made me sign something in Thai where I thought I was exercising my sister's Living Will, and they thought I was signing a promissory note for the dosh.

My nightmare forecast of the conversation at the hospital:

Are you a family member? Yes. Great, here's the bill. You'll need to settle this before you try to get back through immigration. And don't even think about pulling the plug until it's paid.

Are you a family member? No. Well, only family members are allowed to visit, much less make the decision to pull the plug. See ya, bye bye.

Edited June 28, 2016 by impulse

[Confuscious]

The biggest lump of tourist (apart from the usual poor backpacker) are elder people who, after a life of working and hardship, are able to make a holiday to the destination they always have been dreaming about.

Unfortunately, these elder people suffer already of some diseases.

Some inherent to the elder age and some others inherent to the job they have been doing for many years.

The point is that NO insurance company will validate a claim for a hospitalization for an existing disease.

This nullifies the cost of an expensive medical insurance which at the end will not pay a dime if something happens.

I agree with the posters who claim that Thailand (and other travel destinations) should not be held responsible if something happens to this people and the hospital will ask them to pay their bills before leaving the hospital.

But travelling without insurance is maybe the only resource these elder people have to see their dream be fulfilled before they die.

IMHO, when people reach the age of retirement and put a life of hard labour behind them, their own country should take care of them if something happens while on holiday.

Their own country has billions of $$$$$ to feed and house some immigrants who have never contributed to the Social Security of their country but has not 40,000 BP for his own citizens?

"The point is that NO insurance company will validate a claim for a hospitalization for an existing disease."

I often wonder why people who don't know what they are talking about feel the need to emphasise it in caps ? And you are talking absolute complete rubbish.

There are many insurance companies out there that cover existing illnesses, in fact many conditions are covered with no increase in premiums if declared, asthma, arthritis (the only ilness mentioned in this case). For more serious conditions cover is available at a higher premium, still a relatively small amount within the cost of the overall travel budget. Even more so if USA etc is excluded.

This is travel insurance, not life insurance or health insurance, it's for a finite period of time and the risks can be assessed accordingly. Any insurance underwriter will tell you that young people on motorcycles pose a bigger statistical risk with high attendant hospital costs than many properly evaluated existing medical conditions.

Thank you very much for correcting me about Insurance Companies "Roamer".

Actually I am planning a holiday trip next year and I am looking for an insurance company who don't exclude existing conditions.

As you seem to be an expert in this field, I would gladly accept your advice for any Insurance Company.

No need to do this by Personal Message.

Just post here the name of the company you have in mind and who I can contact.

I will give them your references and your words that they should not exclude existing conditions or ask exurberant prices for an insurance with existing conditions INCLUDED.

I (and many other members) wait for your soonest answer here.

Can I hold my breath?

[mizztraveller]

Maybe she couldnt get insured or she wouldnt be covered if she left her home town ( due to better care & facilities ) an ins company policy )

Just had that happen in Auss

If it was a pre-existing condition then the insurance would not cover.

Insurance companies will insure existing medical conditions if you state them. The price of the insurance would be adjusted accordingly of course. There are insurance companies that act specifically for medical conditions such as cancer and heart problems.

[Confuscious]

Maybe she couldnt get insured or she wouldnt be covered if she left her home town ( due to better care & facilities ) an ins company policy )

Just had that happen in Auss

If it was a pre-existing condition then the insurance would not cover.

Insurance companies will insure existing medical conditions if you state them. The price of the insurance would be adjusted accordingly of course. There are insurance companies that act specifically for medical conditions such as cancer and heart problems.

"Roamer" said that his Insurance Company would not increase if there are existing conditions.

"There are many insurance companies out there that cover existing illnesses, in fact many conditions are covered with no increase in premiums if declared."

I chose "Roamer" as my Insurance broker.

Only waiting for his answer now.

[mizztraveller]

Maybe she couldnt get insured or she wouldnt be covered if she left her home town ( due to better care & facilities ) an ins company policy )

Just had that happen in Auss

If it was a pre-existing condition then the insurance would not cover.

Insurance companies will insure existing medical conditions if you state them. The price of the insurance would be adjusted accordingly of course. There are insurance companies that act specifically for medical conditions such as cancer and heart problems.

"Roamer" said that his Insurance Company would not increase if there are existing conditions.

"There are many insurance companies out there that cover existing illnesses, in fact many conditions are covered with no increase in premiums if declared."

I chose "Roamer" as my Insurance broker.

Only waiting for his answer now.

Who or what is Roamer? Google knows only Roamer the watchmaker.

[Confuscious]

Insurance companies will insure existing medical conditions if you state them. The price of the insurance would be adjusted accordingly of course. There are insurance companies that act specifically for medical conditions such as cancer and heart problems.

"Roamer" said that his Insurance Company would not increase if there are existing conditions.

"There are many insurance companies out there that cover existing illnesses, in fact many conditions are covered with no increase in premiums if declared."

I chose "Roamer" as my Insurance broker.

Only waiting for his answer now.

Who or what is Roamer? Google knows only Roamer the watchmaker.

"Roamer" is a ThaiVisa member and he posted in this thread (posts #63 and #68).

[stevenl]

A friend of mine died in Thailand earlier this year. His sister spent his last few days with him, he was cremated in Thailand and she took his ashes home. Where they will have a memorial for him.

The fact that none of her family are with her, is very sad.

Flight costs can be so cheap nowadays, they already have 800 pounds of donations (not much). Why doesn't someone use that to fly to be with her?

If it was my sister, that's what i would do. Beg, steal and borrow to be with her.

Instead of phaphing around trying to raise 36,000.

I would think, in any country, a member of your family has to be there to turn the machines off.

Good point, but not knowing what the laws are, I'd be afraid I'd get to Thailand and be stuck here myself when I identified myself as a family member and the hospital handed me the 36K (and rising) bill. Or maybe made me sign something in Thai where I thought I was exercising my sister's Living Will, and they thought I was signing a promissory note for the dosh.

My nightmare forecast of the conversation at the hospital:

Are you a family member? Yes. Great, here's the bill. You'll need to settle this before you try to get back through immigration. And don't even think about pulling the plug until it's paid.

Are you a family member? No. Well, only family members are allowed to visit, much less make the decision to pull the plug. See ya, bye bye.

Family members are not responsible for her medical bills, and can leave without paying her medical costs.

[HenryB]

Tell me how the Hospital is going to collect if the family elects not to pay and never sets foot in Thailand

I am Waiting

[NancyL]

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVv_2wv8nNAhVEOI8KHT38Bg0QFggnMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stc.arts.chula.ac.th%2FPublications%2Ffiles%2FEUTHANASIA.doc&usg=AFQjCNEWNOhCKZFXhA3vYGkDBVeD2WZv9A&sig2=XFHvReFiRlc7MVWpE6RTcQ&bvm=bv.125596728,d.c2I

A paper written on the law and ethics of removing life support, (in Thailand).

I am a simple layman, but it seems to me this paper is more in reference to Euthanasia, as in assisted suicide, rather than the removal of life support?

No actually, if you read far enough into the paper, it is relevant to this situation. Apparently, the patient has never expressed her views or executed a Living Will, aka Advance Directive. Her relatives simply aren't authorized to "pull the plug" in this situation under Thai law, according to the paper.

This points to the need for everyone to have a Final Will to cover their wishes for their assets after death and a Living Will to express their wishes about what they'd like to have done in situations like this. You're never "too young" to need these two important documents and to have conversations about these subjects with your loved ones.

[JSN777]

Just like health insurance - pre existing health issues will not be covered by travel insurance.

[Patsycat]

A friend of mine died in Thailand earlier this year. His sister spent his last few days with him, he was cremated in Thailand and she took his ashes home. Where they will have a memorial for him.

The fact that none of her family are with her, is very sad.

Flight costs can be so cheap nowadays, they already have 800 pounds of donations (not much). Why doesn't someone use that to fly to be with her?

If it was my sister, that's what i would do. Beg, steal and borrow to be with her.

Instead of phaphing around trying to raise 36,000.

I would think, in any country, a member of your family has to be there to turn the machines off.

Good point, but not knowing what the laws are, I'd be afraid I'd get to Thailand and be stuck here myself when I identified myself as a family member and the hospital handed me the 36K (and rising) bill. Or maybe made me sign something in Thai where I thought I was exercising my sister's Living Will, and they thought I was signing a promissory note for the dosh.

My nightmare forecast of the conversation at the hospital:

Are you a family member? Yes. Great, here's the bill. You'll need to settle this before you try to get back through immigration. And don't even think about pulling the plug until it's paid.

Are you a family member? No. Well, only family members are allowed to visit, much less make the decision to pull the plug. See ya, bye bye.

Family members are not responsible for her medical bills, and can leave without paying her medical costs.

My friend was compus mentus and had insurance.

[gk10002000]

While sounding a bit cold, if the family wants life support terminated,then the article text about wanting to bring the dying person home does not make a lot of sense. While I can understand the family's desire to bring the dead body home for whatever funeral or burial service they are looking for, I think they should consider the realities of the situation. When why worry about the hospital bill? As the saying goes "they can bill me", and good luck to the hospital collecting on the bill.

You missed the point.

They want the hospital to pull the plug and release the body. However the hospital won't release the body until the bill is paid.

I didn't miss the point at all. I even stated the family wants life support terminated. Once the hospital grasps that the family can't and won't pay any more money, the hospital will then terminate life support to save the hospital from spending any more money.

[NCC1701A]

so if she dies who pays the bill?

[moobie]

I first heard of this woman's story as I sat at work here in NE England on BBC Radio Newcastle around about Monday, 20th June - the Anna Foster show, if memory serves right.

On the show one of the sisters mentioned that she had set up a "just giving" page to go active on the following Wednesday to raise around about £16,000 to bring her sick sister back to the UK with medical support to be tended here. She though at the time that she may have been stricken by some sort of insect bite. The fact that the stricken sister had no insurance was also highlighted. And whilst if was mentioned that the lass was ill, nothing seemed to suggest that she was at death's door.

(The same story which was highlighted in the Mirror is also being ran by the local "Newcastle Evening Chronicle." That should be no surprise though as they are newspapers from the same publisher.)

Looking at the photo's in the newspapers I think I may vaguely recognise at least one of the sisters as I live only a few miles away from the North Shields area but also served my apprenticeships there along with having a girlfriend who would have been in the same school as this woman during the same time. Plus, I live in what was once a party town where just about about everyone drank. I'll keep tabs on the story especially as I fly into Bangkok later in the week and if able may endeavour to help if, I can.

PS. Although I'm covered up to the hilt with medical insurance many of the supposed brightest which surround me think nothing to travelling to far flung places, such as the likes of India, without buying any cover. I do believe that in the mindset of many they earnestly believe that the British Embassy will dig them out of any hole they find themselves in.

Edited June 28, 2016 by moobie

[scubascuba3]

I first heard of this woman's story as I sat at work here in NE England on BBC Radio Newcastle around about Monday, 20th June - the Anna Foster show, if memory serves right.

On the show one of the sisters mentioned that she had set up a "just giving" page to go active on the following Wednesday to raise around about £16,000 to bring her sick sister back to the UK with medical support to be tended here. She though at the time that she may have been stricken by some sort of insect bite. The fact that the stricken sister had no insurance was also highlighted. And whilst if was mentioned that the lass was ill, nothing seemed to suggest that she was at death's door.

(The same story which was highlighted in the Mirror is also being ran by the local "Newcastle Evening Chronicle." That should be no surprise though as they are newspapers from the same publisher.)

Looking at the photo's in the newspapers I think I may vaguely recognise at least one of the sisters as I live only a few miles away from the North Shields area but also served my apprenticeships there along with having a girlfriend who would have been in the same school as this woman during the same time. Plus, I live in what was once a party town where just about about everyone drank. I'll keep tabs on the story especially as I fly into Bangkok later in the week and if able may endeavour to help if, I can.

PS. Although I'm covered up to the hilt with medical insurance many of the supposed brightest which surround me think nothing to travelling to far flung places, such as the likes of India, without buying any cover. I do believe that in the mindset of many they earnestly believe that the British Embassy will dig them out of any hole they find themselves in.

Probably the majority not buying insurance will get away with it but the minority won't, and will end up being very costly in different ways.

[IMA_FARANG]

My father died back in 1990 at age of 81. For the last week he was unable to move except for his left hand and could not talk.

The nurses in the hospital had to clean him 24 hours a day because he could not control his bodily functions

I personally know how it feels to "turn off" all life support functions, and the family debate and anguish such a decision causes.

In the U.S. you can make a "living will" that decides that if you are in such a situation you give a trusted relative the right to decide to terminate your life support when the doctors think there is no chance of the patient living.

My family had to make such a decision.

It isn't easy.

[muzmurray]

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVv_2wv8nNAhVEOI8KHT38Bg0QFggnMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stc.arts.chula.ac.th%2FPublications%2Ffiles%2FEUTHANASIA.doc&usg=AFQjCNEWNOhCKZFXhA3vYGkDBVeD2WZv9A&sig2=XFHvReFiRlc7MVWpE6RTcQ&bvm=bv.125596728,d.c2I

A paper written on the law and ethics of removing life support, (in Thailand).

I am a simple layman, but it seems to me this paper is more in reference to Euthanasia, as in assisted suicide, rather than the removal of life support?

The removal of life support or life prolonging drugs is a form of assisted euthanasia.

[nausea]

So, if I read this right, the woman is brain dead, but the hospital won't terminate until the bills are paid. Am I right, or am I wrong. Or is it about bringing a dying conscious woman home, to spend her last moments surrounded by family and friends.

[kinmaew]

"due to their customs and beliefs" - No respect for anyone but their own crap heap of a country.

[oldsailor35]

It seems she has been ill for a long time - and goes on holiday without insurance?

Probably the cover quote was too high, so she decided to go without. Its been done before.

[Briggsy]

So, if I read this right, the woman is brain dead, but the hospital won't terminate until the bills are paid. Am I right, or am I wrong. Or is it about bringing a dying conscious woman home, to spend her last moments surrounded by family and friends.

I believe you have read this incorrectly.

This is about the relatives and the patient herself not having to pay any medical bills for treatment to date themselves, not having to pay the airfare and accommodation costs of flying to Bangkok and providing permission in person to have her unplugged, not having to pay for the repatriation of the body and not having to pay for the funeral.

The key thing here is that the family pay absolutely nothing, all costs are covered by the government or crowdfunding whilst the family have their wish of a local funeral granted.

That is what this is about.

This is Britain today. The Benefits Culture. "Why should I have to pay? It's not my fault."

[impulse]

It seems she has been ill for a long time - and goes on holiday without insurance?

Probably the cover quote was too high, so she decided to go without. Its been done before.

Or she may be like a lot of the guys posting here who think they're self insured, but they're really just crossing their fingers.

Even if she was loaded, if her family can't get to her money before the probate hearing, it can't end well.

This can be a sad, cautionary tale and a lot of us could learn from it, myself included.

[Bunnychow]

"due to their customs and beliefs" - No respect for anyone but their own crap heap of a country.

But yet you choose to live here, or if you dont, why bother commenting about a country you depise so ? Surely you would be a lot happier in yourself not reading about such a crap country you obviously hate so much

[Wilsonandson]

"due to their customs and beliefs" - No respect for anyone but their own crap heap of a country.

But yet you choose to live here, or if you dont, why bother commenting about a country you depise so ? Surely you would be a lot happier in yourself not reading about such a crap country you obviously hate so much

Why bother indeed, as criticism in Los is taboo. Tell someone they are doing or have done something wrong will result in them not speaking to you for a week.

This knowledge can be used to your advantage if your married to a nagging wife.