Wall over boundary

[Jedsada3]

Give him the fence for free... make it official. And when it's all signed and registered, sue him because half of HIS fence is on your ground!

[HerbalEd]

I'd offer to pay them 20k and if they say no then tell them they can sue. Given what that will cost them and what little money they'll 'maybe' get in the end, most likely they'll never sue.

[Generalchaos]

There was one other question I forgot to ask you in my original reply. WHO asked the land office for the new survey?

I cannot believe they just came around off their own idea to re survey the land, someone must have asked them and paid them.

If your neighbour requested the survey then it would have cost him 5K or so to get the chanotes verified, hence why he won't accept your 5K offer, he is out of pocket now.

If they did come out off their own accord, let him go and dispute this with the land office, you have the original survey, they made a horses ass of it, let them sort it out, in fact, if the land office cocked up, let them pay for the new wall!

People here seem to think that you have no recourse to anything, when in fact if you stand your ground the Thai law system in many ways is very good. (Not perfect) But so many Thais and foreigners just seem to resign themselves to the situation instead of making a bit of a fuss.

I have had half a dozen instances where I was unhappy with things I bought here that were faulty and didn't work, my wife used to say that I should just accept it as there is no recourse - (They have been led to believe this for years) But if you are in the right, stand up and take them on, if they are a legitimate company or department, you do actually have rights, don't believe the crap that you cannot make a stand, you can and you will be surprised that in 90% of the cases you will get a positive outcome.

[mankondang]

Its about getting on with your life. Get a lawyer to act as a mediator for the amount of payment bargained for. Once both parties are happy with the amount, get the lawyer to draft and both parties sign the agreement, and rectify the Land office side of things. Expencive - yes. Piece of mind priceless.

When the wall was built you can bet your neighbor was alert to this.

[DUNROAMIN]

I would be getting your wife to do some research into any family ties to the Land Department. Maybe the neighbours need some quick cash to get them out of debt and have had a chat with a cousin at the Land Office. Then on the other hand has your wife got any family contacts with the Land Office, you never know a second check by the Land Office may change the outcome.

Just saying.

Edited June 29, 2016 by DUNROAMIN

[weegee]

(1) You dont have a hope in hell going to court....

(2) Check who the Surveyor was, relation or friend of your Neighbor...You definitely wont win.

You are in the same predicament many have been in before you, and I will say it again....You wont win. Those surveyor pegs can be shifted overnight to suit the situation.....and the situation is NOT in your favour.....get the drift?

Think about this as well....they may have planned, investigated and thought out everything you could possibly counter with, BEFORE they went after you for money.

Feel sorry for you, but better to tell you up straight what you are in for....

[whaleboneman]

Explain to your neighbour that the wall is half theirs. Ask them for 50,000 baht to rebuild it on the property line.

[VocalNeal]

Get your own survey done. Then build a brand new wall back about 20cm from the original and give them the old one, which is already on their land! They are then at liberty to knock it down if they wish. Then you ask them for 50,000 for the bit of your land on their side! (last bit was a joke!)

A mate in Sattahip has a similar problem with a road behind his house. There is a previous wall built by FIL along the road. Now local authority says a short dogleg bit extends 20 cm into govt. property. FIL said he gave the land to the local authority to build the road in the first place! Local authority want him to pay to have the wall demolished and build a new one.

So I stole the idea. He says he is going to build a new wall on the boundary inside the old wall and then give the old wall to the local authority

Edited July 11, 2016 by VocalNeal

[rambose]

Don't give into the 50K. Offer them 10K and then let them take it to court... call their bluff.

i agree i think they would then come back to you with a counter offer of say 25,000 you could the continue with your offers and in the end agree some where around 15,000 plus. and put it down to experiences and move on enjoying your life.

I'd offer to pay them 20k and if they say no then tell them they can sue. Given what that will cost them and what little money they'll 'maybe' get in the end, most likely they'll never sue.

Its about getting on with your life. Get a lawyer to act as a mediator for the amount of payment bargained for. Once both parties are happy with the amount, get the lawyer to draft and both parties sign the agreement, and rectify the Land office side of things. Expencive - yes. Piece of mind priceless.

When the wall was built you can bet your neighbor was alert to this.

In multiple meetings with these people, my wife has asked them to lower the amount they are asking. They continue to insist that they will accept no less than 50K baht.

Two weeks ago, on the agreed upon deadline date, my wife went to the ampur and told them she did not agree to the 50K. The ampur noted my wife's refusal, and informed the neighbors.

The next step was to be that the neighbors would hire a lawyer and officially sue. The lawyer would draft a letter and send it to my wife. However, a few days later, military showed up (not the police), and a little powwow was held out in front of the house. The neighbors again insisted on 50K; my asked them to lower the amount. They refused. The soldiers wrote it all down, and said goodbye.

Edited July 24, 2016 by rambose

[cornishcarlos]

Don't give in to them... I would have said 10k was a fair offer but sounds like these ass—les need to be taught not to be greedy

[rambose]

There was one other question I forgot to ask you in my original reply. WHO asked the land office for the new survey?

I cannot believe they just came around off their own idea to re survey the land, someone must have asked them and paid them.

If your neighbour requested the survey then it would have cost him 5K or so to get the chanotes verified, hence why he won't accept your 5K offer, he is out of pocket now.

If they did come out off their own accord, let him go and dispute this with the land office, you have the original survey, they made a horses ass of it, let them sort it out, in fact, if the land office cocked up, let them pay for the new wall!

People here seem to think that you have no recourse to anything, when in fact if you stand your ground the Thai law system in many ways is very good. (Not perfect) But so many Thais and foreigners just seem to resign themselves to the situation instead of making a bit of a fuss.

I have had half a dozen instances where I was unhappy with things I bought here that were faulty and didn't work, my wife used to say that I should just accept it as there is no recourse - (They have been led to believe this for years) But if you are in the right, stand up and take them on, if they are a legitimate company or department, you do actually have rights, don't believe the crap that you cannot make a stand, you can and you will be surprised that in 90% of the cases you will get a positive outcome.

My mother in law (MIL), and her brother (Uncle), both well into their 70s, have jointly owned the property since their mother died 30 years ago. Uncle has never agreed to subdivide the property, and with Thai law, it seems very difficult to force this to happen.

Only recently, Uncle decided he wanted to subdivide the property. The land office came out to survey, and found that our fence encroached onto the neighbor's property.

[rhodie]

Thanks for the update. I hope to eventually see an update where they are forced to accept a reasonable amount.

[rambose]

do you still have the original survey report? if not, try to get hold of it.

if you do, present it and encourage your friendly neighbors to sue the surveying company.

Don't forget, if they take you to court then it is very likely that they will be awarded legal costs against you as well.

Best to resurvey and if required move the wall. (Checking legality of maximum height)

(1) You dont have a hope in hell going to court....

(2) Check who the Surveyor was, relation or friend of your Neighbor...You definitely wont win.

You are in the same predicament many have been in before you, and I will say it again....You wont win. Those surveyor pegs can be shifted overnight to suit the situation.....and the situation is NOT in your favour.....get the drift?

Think about this as well....they may have planned, investigated and thought out everything you could possibly counter with, BEFORE they went after you for money.

Feel sorry for you, but better to tell you up straight what you are in for....

Moving the wall isn't really an option; it would cost more than the 50K to do that.

A lawyer at first told my wife to pay the 50K.

Then, Wife went to the land office and found the original land survey; it had been ordered by the neighbors 18 years ago; (apparently) they built a barbed wire fence at that time according to the boundary established and marked by the survey. Their fence and the boundary markers were still in place when we decided to build the new wall.

We took a bunch of photos when we started work on the wall. Several photos show the neighbors removing their fence so that we can build the wall (effectively agreeing for us to build the wall). Several other photos show the workers marking the position for the new wall, with the neighbors looking on closely (to make sure the new wall is on our side of the property line). At the neighbors insistence, a couple of key cement posts were left in place while the wall was being built; this pissed off the wall builder because he had to work around those posts.

So, my wife can pretty conclusively show that the wall is built on a boundary established 18 years ago by the neighbors, and the neighbors agreed to have us build the wall there.

When my wife showed original survey, and the photos, to the lawyer, he changed his tune. Lawyer said she had a 70 to 80 % chance of winning. Of course, that's not 100%.

But it also means the neighbors, who must put up 20 to 25K baht to bring the lawsuit, would likely lose. And if they have to pay our legal expenses if they lose, they're out 40k to 60K baht. Hopefully, their lawyer is telling them to settle.

.......................................

Now, here's another thing that leaves me shaking my head.

I told my wife, go to the neighbors and show them the photos, and show them her copy of the original property survey. That should convince them they have little chance of winning, and agree to settle.

My wife's reply: 2 different lawyers had told her not to do that. Even, if questioned by the police, just flash a photo; don't let them have it or even look at it for long.

The reason: if the neighbors know what evidence we have, then it allows them to come up with a different story.

So is this just the lawyers protecting their income? (they get nothing if we settle without their help) Or is this really good legal advice?

Edited July 24, 2016 by rambose

[offset]

When ever the land office come to recheck on the boundary markers here they always seem to ask for ALL the land owner to be present and have to agree with the new markers was this done with you and if so did you agree to the new boundaries

The Land Office are coming to remark our next doors land this week and we have been notified that we have to be there at the time and the last time i had it checked all the owners of the land had to be present

[rambose]

When ever the land office come to recheck on the boundary markers here they always seem to ask for ALL the land owner to be present and have to agree with the new markers was this done with you and if so did you agree to the new boundaries

The Land Office are coming to remark our next doors land this week and we have been notified that we have to be there at the time and the last time i had it checked all the owners of the land had to be present

Yes, my wife was there. She asked them to double check. They assured her that their measurements were correct.

[BEVUP]

do you still have the original survey report? if not, try to get hold of it.

if you do, present it and encourage your friendly neighbors to sue the surveying company.

Don't forget, if they take you to court then it is very likely that they will be awarded legal costs against you as well.

Best to resurvey and if required move the wall. (Checking legality of maximum height)

(1) You dont have a hope in hell going to court....

(2) Check who the Surveyor was, relation or friend of your Neighbor...You definitely wont win.

You are in the same predicament many have been in before you, and I will say it again....You wont win. Those surveyor pegs can be shifted overnight to suit the situation.....and the situation is NOT in your favour.....get the drift?

Think about this as well....they may have planned, investigated and thought out everything you could possibly counter with, BEFORE they went after you for money.

Feel sorry for you, but better to tell you up straight what you are in for....

Moving the wall isn't really an option; it would cost more than the 50K to do that.

A lawyer at first told my wife to pay the 50K.

Then, Wife went to the land office and found the original land survey; it had been ordered by the neighbors 18 years ago; (apparently) they built a barbed wire fence at that time according to the boundary established and marked by the survey. Their fence and the boundary markers were still in place when we decided to build the new wall.

We took a bunch of photos when we started work on the wall. Several photos show the neighbors removing their fence so that we can build the wall (effectively agreeing for us to build the wall). Several other photos show the workers marking the position for the new wall, with the neighbors looking on closely (to make sure the new wall is on our side of the property line). At the neighbors insistence, a couple of key cement posts were left in place while the wall was being built; this pissed off the wall builder because he had to work around those posts.

So, my wife can pretty conclusively show that the wall is built on a boundary established 18 years ago by the neighbors, and the neighbors agreed to have us build the wall there.

When my wife showed original survey, and the photos, to the lawyer, he changed his tune. Lawyer said she had a 70 to 80 % chance of winning. Of course, that's not 100%.

But it also means the neighbors, who must put up 20 to 25K baht to bring the lawsuit, would likely lose. And if they have to pay our legal expenses if they lose, they're out 40k to 60K baht. Hopefully, their lawyer is telling them to settle.

.......................................

Now, here's another thing that leaves me shaking my head.

I told my wife, go to the neighbors and show them the photos, and show them her copy of the original property survey. That should convince them they have little chance of winning, and agree to settle.

My wife's reply: 2 different lawyers had told her not to do that. Even, if questioned by the police, just flash a photo; don't let them have it or even look at it for long.

The reason: if the neighbors know what evidence we have, then it allows them to come up with a different story.

So is this just the lawyers protecting their income? (they get nothing if we settle without their help) Or is this really good legal advice?

Yes it is good legal advice

Keep them in the dark to all substantial evidence & let them present their own story

Then when & if they can afford the court case Whamo you flash the documents & watch their jaws drop

Also, but maybe not here insist that they up front your legal fees to the court prior to the hearing

[JAS21]

When ever the land office come to recheck on the boundary markers here they always seem to ask for ALL the land owner to be present and have to agree with the new markers was this done with you and if so did you agree to the new boundaries

The Land Office are coming to remark our next doors land this week and we have been notified that we have to be there at the time and the last time i had it checked all the owners of the land had to be present

Yes, my wife was there. She asked them to double check. They assured her that their measurements were correct.

Now concrete posts into the ground adjacent to the markersm