Boris backs out – Gove goes for it – May may have it as race for number 10 gets underway

[Caveat Emptor]

"The odds are starting to stack up in favour of Theresa May..."

Scary - I read an article last week which described her to be like 'Thatcher without the sympathy'...

I hope posters with better knowledge will put this right if I've got it wrong but I seem to remember Theresa May being involved in various controversies that she managed to wriggle out of mainly by blaming others.

There was one, I think, about people being allowed into Britain that should not have been resulting in a dispute as to why between the Head of the Border Agency and the Home Secy with the Agency Chief losing out.

Can anyone help ?

[dick dasterdly]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

Question about this....based upon what I've read the past few days, Farage doesn't seem to have a very good relationship with the EU leaders/MEPs. The BBC's take is that Theresa May would be welcomed by that same group. Wouldn't it be better from a negotiating standpoint to have someone who has a good working relationship with the EU as the leader of the withdrawal and its related negotiations? (I'm not from the UK so I don't pretend to know all of the intricacies of your politics.)

I will act like a Politician and throw that right back at you

Who would you rather have negotiating ? Someone who has intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the EU or someone who has been sitting on the outside but has a good relationship with the EU ?

To answer your question. I believe that Farage would drive a deal with no thoughts for his own Political life and which was done in the best interest of the UK.

I cannot say that any of the current cutting crew would do the same.

You are joking right? Farage would ignore his own interests?

He rubs the EU politicians, bureaucrats, and many others up the wrong way. Sure people like are sometimes needed but as a negotiator or leader?

I agree with the emboldened part, but if the UK is going to leave the EU the last thing we need is someone who supports the EU!

[SgtRock]

"The odds are starting to stack up in favour of Theresa May..."

Scary - I read an article last week which described her to be like 'Thatcher without the sympathy'...

I hope posters with better knowledge will put this right if I've got it wrong but I seem to remember Theresa May being involved in various controversies that she managed to wriggle out of mainly by blaming others.

There was one, I think, about people being allowed into Britain that should not have been resulting in a dispute as to why between the Head of the Border Agency and the Home Secy with the Agency Chief losing out.

Can anyone help ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-accused-of-appalling-incompetence-over-fiona-woolf-affair-9832114.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8876640/Theresa-May-refuses-to-resign-over-border-checks-scandal.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-faces-parliamentary-investigation-over-flimsy-basis-for-student-deportations-a6948796.html

This Theresa May you mean.

Incompetence personified.

[ilostmypassword]

"The odds are starting to stack up in favour of Theresa May..."

Scary - I read an article last week which described her to be like 'Thatcher without the sympathy'...

I hope posters with better knowledge will put this right if I've got it wrong but I seem to remember Theresa May being involved in various controversies that she managed to wriggle out of mainly by blaming others.

There was one, I think, about people being allowed into Britain that should not have been resulting in a dispute as to why between the Head of the Border Agency and the Home Secy with the Agency Chief losing out.

Can anyone help ?

Google is your friend: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8876640/Theresa-May-refuses-to-resign-over-border-checks-scandal.html

There's also this: http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/theresa-may-wrongly-deported-48000-students-after-bbc-panorama-exposes-toeic-scam-a6958286.html

[Caveat Emptor]

"The odds are starting to stack up in favour of Theresa May..."

Scary - I read an article last week which described her to be like 'Thatcher without the sympathy'...

I hope posters with better knowledge will put this right if I've got it wrong but I seem to remember Theresa May being involved in various controversies that she managed to wriggle out of mainly by blaming others.

There was one, I think, about people being allowed into Britain that should not have been resulting in a dispute as to why between the Head of the Border Agency and the Home Secy with the Agency Chief losing out.

Can anyone help ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-accused-of-appalling-incompetence-over-fiona-woolf-affair-9832114.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8876640/Theresa-May-refuses-to-resign-over-border-checks-scandal.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-faces-parliamentary-investigation-over-flimsy-basis-for-student-deportations-a6948796.html

This Theresa May you mean.

Incompetence personified.

A shoe in for PM then ?

[SgtRock]

"The odds are starting to stack up in favour of Theresa May..."

Scary - I read an article last week which described her to be like 'Thatcher without the sympathy'...

I hope posters with better knowledge will put this right if I've got it wrong but I seem to remember Theresa May being involved in various controversies that she managed to wriggle out of mainly by blaming others.

There was one, I think, about people being allowed into Britain that should not have been resulting in a dispute as to why between the Head of the Border Agency and the Home Secy with the Agency Chief losing out.

Can anyone help ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-accused-of-appalling-incompetence-over-fiona-woolf-affair-9832114.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8876640/Theresa-May-refuses-to-resign-over-border-checks-scandal.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-faces-parliamentary-investigation-over-flimsy-basis-for-student-deportations-a6948796.html

This Theresa May you mean.

Incompetence personified.

A shoe in for PM then ?

Probably

[Caveat Emptor]

#36

I read your aversion to seeing the words politician and leaders in the same sentence and can understand why.

[Jip99]

You are peeing in the wind, friend, and are as green as most other remainers. There will be no back-tracking on the popular vote, lest you want angry people in the streets and decades of turmoil. The race for PM is all about how best to move forward (not some lame plan to stop exit), and neither the uncharismatic Gove nor snarky May are up to it... the latter will deliver more of the 'established' same. You won't like this, but the only kind of person to move Britain on is Farage... a straight-talker that knows business and has worked the financial world, is actually proud to be British and understands how much of an abortion the EU is.

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

[Eclipse]

You are joking right? Farage would ignore his own interests?

He rubs the EU politicians, bureaucrats, and many others up the wrong way. Sure people like are sometimes needed but as a negotiator or leader?

Yep. After watching his cringeworthy performance in the European Parliament a couple of days ago we can only conclude the odious little turd is a total embarrassment to himself and his country.

An obnoxious clown on the same level as Johnson.

As for Cameron? He has sailed his country right down the river. That is his legacy.

Nothing cringeworthy about it at all in my opinion.

He has been telling Herr Junker, Tusk and the rest of the EU beaurocrats exactly what he thinks of them and their anti democratic ambitions for a USSR type dictatorship for nearly twenty years.

Brilliant speech once again stating Britain will be by no means the last to leave.

I laughed when he told them that very few of them have ever had a proper job or were involved in trade or business,

He had his moment of triumph and I for one applaud him

If you think that standing up and making an arse of your self is brilliant then I seriously worry about things.

[SgtRock]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

[bkkcanuck8]

There's an irony in Boris failing to clean up his own mess, despite being the candidate to most resemble a mop.

@chrisspresswell

Edited July 1, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[Bunnychow]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

[pitrevie]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

[Bunnychow]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

You do know farage and B liar are not the same person dont you ?...well obviously you dont...

[dick dasterdly]

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

And yet the electorate agreed with the policy to leave the EU.

[dick dasterdly]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

You do know farage and B liar are not the same person dont you ?...well obviously you dont...

Quite. Blair was far more of a liar than Farage.

[SgtRock]

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

At the very least the negotiations team will consist of MP's, Civil Servants and Legal representatives. It would be idiotic not to have MEP's as part of that negotiation team.

[Morch]

You are joking right? Farage would ignore his own interests?

He rubs the EU politicians, bureaucrats, and many others up the wrong way. Sure people like are sometimes needed but as a negotiator or leader?

Yep. After watching his cringeworthy performance in the European Parliament a couple of days ago we can only conclude the odious little turd is a total embarrassment to himself and his country.

An obnoxious clown on the same level as Johnson.

As for Cameron? He has sailed his country right down the river. That is his legacy.

Nothing cringeworthy about it at all in my opinion.

He has been telling Herr Junker, Tusk and the rest of the EU beaurocrats exactly what he thinks of them and their anti democratic ambitions for a USSR type dictatorship for nearly twenty years.

Brilliant speech once again stating Britain will be by no means the last to leave.

I laughed when he told them that very few of them have ever had a proper job or were involved in trade or business,

He had his moment of triumph and I for one applaud him

I laughed when he told them that very few of them have ever had a proper job or were involved in trade or business

And it was a factually incorrect statement.

Farage himself is pretty much a career politician. Not like he was working pro bono all them touted 17 years.

[pitrevie]

As much as I do not have much time for Farage or UKIP.

I tend to agree with you. The current bunch of useless jellyfish are not the answer to taking the UK forward.

Farage would certainly have a better attempt at it than any of the fools that are currently busy backstabbing and cutting each others throat.

I would actually tend to agree with Diplomatico's post in which he suggests that May could be a better 'fit' with the EU (and therefore more acceptable to the institutions etc).

I think May has the balls for the job and her credibility might be higher as she was not part of the Brexit campaign.

I disagree with you. I am not really a '' who is the best fit '' or '' who is more acceptable '' to the institutions guy.

I want someone to get a job done.

On her record as Home Secretary I would say that she is not the person to get that job done.

Farage is not the correct person either, but to me, sadly, he looks the most capable out of the rest of the motley crew that are currently acting like snakes in the grass.

I have no problem that you disagree, it is about opinions.

As much as I would like to see Farage involved I don't think the main player can afford to be too bombastic.

Firm, certainly, in protecting the UK's position but they should also seek to avoid confrontation. We don't want this to become a battle - but I do agree that there is risk that the likes of May could dilute the outcome. Nigel Farage would certainly not do that but this is not the time to seek (personal) revenge or rub Eurocrats noses in it.

I think there needs to be a considered and sensitive approach to the way forward and only a fool would ignore the need to be aware of the institutions (without pandering to them).

Immigration is a classic. I believe we need to reassure existing British expats in Europe, and European immigrants in the UK, that they will not be forcibly repatriated. However, the criteria for future immigration also needs to change - I don't think that subject can be handled with a baseball bat.

Of course, nothing wrong with differing opinions and even robust discussion, providing it remains civil.

I would also point out that we are largely on the same side just approaching from different directions.

It will take a team of negotiators, not an individual to enter talks with the EU. Farage should be part of that team, if for no other reason he is probably more aware than most to the weaknesses of the EU, and would know which strings to pull and tweak.

Dealing with the immigration issue is quite forward if you remove politicians from the equation. issue a date at least 2 years down the line when a new UK immigration policy will take effect. At the same time new NHS and Welfare policies will be introduced.

That gives you at least 12 months to work out the fine detail, a further 12 months to get ready to implement those policies.

The downside is that you will probably have a spike in immigration before the policy is enacted, the upside is that it will cause a natural reduction in immigration after implementation.

For those that are currently in the UK legally, grandfather rights would / will apply.

B liar appears to be nominating himself to be part of the negotiation team, i think a jail cell for him would be more approprate...

There is just one snag, Farage has attempted five times to get into Parliament as an MP and each time the British electorate has rejected him. I do hope that nobody is suggesting we override the wishes of the British people as expressed in each of those elections. I believe his best result was 8% and that was where he attempted to run in a constituency which previously had voted in a very right wing Tory MP. It appears that even they couldn't stomach him.

You do know farage and B liar are not the same person dont you ?...well obviously you dont...

Well since I didn't mention the latter I guess I do. However would you like me to give you a few quotes by the former that have turned out to be lies. The biggest porky being the one about a second referendum should the difference be less than 4%. Let me know if you need a few more examples.

[SgtRock]

Here is one of the front runners for the keys to No 10.

Dr Liam Fox, who in 2011.

Dr Fox became the first Tory Cabinet minister in David Cameron’s government to stand down, after more than a week of revelations about his relationship with his best man, Adam Werritty.

Because

Cabinet officials are thought to have been alarmed by the information that has been uncovered, suggesting multiple breaches of Whitehall rules.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8828141/Liam-Fox-resigns-following-Adam-Werritty-revelations.html

He was up to his neck in backdoor. dodgy dealings.

When will we ever < > learn.

[awayego]

You are delusional.

Fortunately, democracy allows you to keep on dreaming.

You are peeing in the wind, friend, and are as green as most other remainers. There will be no back-tracking on the popular vote, lest you want angry people in the streets and decades of turmoil. The race for PM is all about how best to move forward (not some lame plan to stop exit), and neither the uncharismatic Gove nor snarky May are up to it... the latter will deliver more of the 'established' same. You won't like this, but the only kind of person to move Britain on is Farage... a straight-talker that knows business and has worked the financial world, is actually proud to be British and understands how much of an abortion the EU is.

Personal insults aside, I will happily admit that I was wrong if this charade is voted through Parliament and goes all the way.

Perhaps I am naive to think that common sense will prevail and a majority of MP's, across all parties will vote it down.

There are a number of scenarios possible when it is put before Parliament:

1. The PM, whether May or some other, will ensure the Tory Whip is applied to its fullest. In which case, possibly, some committed Tory Remainers might still abstain.

2. The Tory Whip might be brandished but not cracked, thus allowing some Tory Remainers to abstain or even vote against.

3. The PM might allow a free vote (highly unlikely).

4. There may well be all sorts of negotiations behind closed doors that could affect the voting in Parliament.

5. There may yet be a constitutional ruling that the Scottish Parliament will have to approve 'Brexit' and, if so, it might result in a veto.

6. 'Brexit' is approved by a majority of MP's.

And other possible scenarios that others may add.

What I am suggesting, and why I am not convinced of an assumed 'Brexit' certainty, is that there are still a number of unknowns and areas which, due to the uniqueness of this event, have yet to be tested.

My vote to Remain was based more on economic reasons, rather than transitory frustrations such as immigration, given my education (I majored in Economics) and my experiences working in banking (six years), building industry management (six years) and in further education and industrial training courses in business studies and financial management (twenty five years).

I am the first to admit that my background does not make me an expert in this matter by any means but it did help me in making an informed decision to vote to Remain in the EU.

Time will tell whether or not 'Brexit' will go through and I will readily admit that I was wrong if it does. On the other hand, I will very happily say "I told you so" if it does not!

In the meantime my critics can say what they like, but my optimism Remains!

[ilostmypassword]

Strange how the world seems to be taking it for granted that Brexit is now a foregone conclusion – it certainly is not.

As a Remain voter, and pro-European, the pessimism felt in the immediate aftermath of the referendum result is steadily giving way to optimism, particularly when hearing of the withdrawal from the Tory leadership/PM race by BJ (now there's an unfortunate double entendre!).

Also pleasing to see the misinformation and lies peddled by Farage and his ilk being shown to be exactly that as reality dawns on many of the misguided Leavers.

I now have little doubt that Brexit will be voted down in Parliament and this whole sad, sorry and superfluous misadventure into pseudo-democracy will be swept under the carpet where it belongs. We elect MP's to Parliament to make informed decisions about serious, often very complex, matters on our behalf. Cameron abrogated that responsibility by handing such a critical decision over to a largely uninformed electorate, easily swayed by emotive and sensationalised arguments, often devoid of both facts and humanity, from a bunch of power-hungry political opportunists who served no-one's interests but their own.

Best case scenario, for Remainers at least, would be Theresa May as PM pushing Parliament to vote down Brexit, in which case she would show more balls than Cameron (bloody appeasing wimp!).

How wonderful would be the Brexiters' reaction to winning the battle but losing the war! That would certainly wipe the smug, gloating smirk off the Farage visage!

You are peeing in the wind, friend, and are as green as most other remainers. There will be no back-tracking on the popular vote, lest you want angry people in the streets and decades of turmoil. The race for PM is all about how best to move forward (not some lame plan to stop exit), and neither the uncharismatic Gove nor snarky May are up to it... the latter will deliver more of the 'established' same. You won't like this, but the only kind of person to move Britain on is Farage... a straight-talker that knows business and has worked the financial world, is actually proud to be British and understands how much of an abortion the EU is.

You mean the Nigel Farage who said that a 52 to 48 vote against Brexit shouldn't be conclusive?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[dick dasterdly]

You are delusional.

Fortunately, democracy allows you to keep on dreaming.

Personal insults aside, I will happily admit that I was wrong if this charade is voted through Parliament and goes all the way.

Perhaps I am naive to think that common sense will prevail and a majority of MP's, across all parties will vote it down.

There are a number of scenarios possible when it is put before Parliament:

1. The PM, whether May or some other, will ensure the Tory Whip is applied to its fullest. In which case, possibly, some committed Tory Remainers might still abstain.

2. The Tory Whip might be brandished but not cracked, thus allowing some Tory Remainers to abstain or even vote against.

3. The PM might allow a free vote (highly unlikely).

4. There may well be all sorts of negotiations behind closed doors that could affect the voting in Parliament.

5. There may yet be a constitutional ruling that the Scottish Parliament will have to approve 'Brexit' and, if so, it might result in a veto.

6. 'Brexit' is approved by a majority of MP's.

And other possible scenarios that others may add.

What I am suggesting, and why I am not convinced of an assumed 'Brexit' certainty, is that there are still a number of unknowns and areas which, due to the uniqueness of this event, have yet to be tested.

My vote to Remain was based more on economic reasons, rather than transitory frustrations such as immigration, given my education (I majored in Economics) and my experiences working in banking (six years), building industry management (six years) and in further education and industrial training courses in business studies and financial management (twenty five years).

I am the first to admit that my background does not make me an expert in this matter by any means but it did help me in making an informed decision to vote to Remain in the EU.

Time will tell whether or not 'Brexit' will go through and I will readily admit that I was wrong if it does. On the other hand, I will very happily say "I told you so" if it does not!

In the meantime my critics can say what they like, but my optimism Remains!

Quite right, the electorate should be ignored and politicians opinion plus legal opinion should carry the day.

The electorate will not be happy about this, but if the referendum was divisive - ignoring the decision will be even more divisive as it will prove that democracy means nothing.

[ilostmypassword]

Personal insults aside, I will happily admit that I was wrong if this charade is voted through Parliament and goes all the way.

Perhaps I am naive to think that common sense will prevail and a majority of MP's, across all parties will vote it down.

There are a number of scenarios possible when it is put before Parliament:

1. The PM, whether May or some other, will ensure the Tory Whip is applied to its fullest. In which case, possibly, some committed Tory Remainers might still abstain.

2. The Tory Whip might be brandished but not cracked, thus allowing some Tory Remainers to abstain or even vote against.

3. The PM might allow a free vote (highly unlikely).

4. There may well be all sorts of negotiations behind closed doors that could affect the voting in Parliament.

5. There may yet be a constitutional ruling that the Scottish Parliament will have to approve 'Brexit' and, if so, it might result in a veto.

6. 'Brexit' is approved by a majority of MP's.

And other possible scenarios that others may add.

What I am suggesting, and why I am not convinced of an assumed 'Brexit' certainty, is that there are still a number of unknowns and areas which, due to the uniqueness of this event, have yet to be tested.

My vote to Remain was based more on economic reasons, rather than transitory frustrations such as immigration, given my education (I majored in Economics) and my experiences working in banking (six years), building industry management (six years) and in further education and industrial training courses in business studies and financial management (twenty five years).

I am the first to admit that my background does not make me an expert in this matter by any means but it did help me in making an informed decision to vote to Remain in the EU.

Time will tell whether or not 'Brexit' will go through and I will readily admit that I was wrong if it does. On the other hand, I will very happily say "I told you so" if it does not!

In the meantime my critics can say what they like, but my optimism Remains!

Quite right, the electorate should be ignored and politicians opinion plus legal opinion should carry the day.

The electorate will not be happy about this, but if the referendum was divisive - ignoring the decision will be even more divisive as it will prove that democracy means nothing.

No, because presumably enough of those MPs who voted against Brexit will lose their seats to those who supported it and Brexit will eventually pass. Unless of course a significant portion of the electorate changes its mind.

[dunroaming]

Politics is all about dark deals done behind closed doors.It will be Gove versus May and the other runners know they will not win. However eventually they will stand down one by one after being promosed a position in government by one candidate or the other if they support them. This is what always happens and is part of the game. So much for democracy.

[nauseus]

Dastardly and Awayego et al

How would you know if a significant proportion of the electorate had changed their minds? Oh yeah, another referendum! Brilliant! Best out of 5 maybe??

And why would anyone expect the immigration issue to be a "transitory frustration"? It seems obvious that deep-rooted frustration is growing. Cameron failed to regulate it after empty promises of <100k/year. With the recent arrival of millions (mainly young males) into Europe via the Mediterranean, the pressure on the UK to take even more would be immense, if a member of the EU. \

Any opinion just based on economics has to be just selfishness and not genuine patriotism.