Thai navy seeks approval to buy first submarines in 65 years

[robblok]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

"To think that one is better than the other is crazy."

No. To say that the US is no better than China is crazy speak by someone brought up in a democracy.

My point is totally different.. that they are both out for their own interest and not for Thai interests. So from that point of view they are both equally bad. Now I was not discussing the political system of both countries. Also if we were to look who has invaded the most countries .. guess who looks worse then.

But the point is that neither of those countries has Thailands best interest in mind but their own.. so they are equally bad.

[smutcakes]

Why did they not build the sub base on the andaman coast. If the subs are to be used in the andaman where the sea is deeper enough to use them, they would need to make a 2000 km round trip to get their and back before actually doing anything.

I presume the Navy top brass prefer the location and proximity to Bangkok and the golf courses, rather than having something on the other coast down south.

[Junkyarddog]

The Navy first starting wanting subs 25 years ago. Ive been here for 30 years. The first request did not go far. The country basically just starting laughing. The standing joke became the thai navy was planning an attack on Laos. Thiscomes up again about every 5 years.Knowing the Thai mindset as I do and I am not trying to be funny here. They will probably decide its to dangerous under water because they might run into something. Thetefore Thai Sub policy will be not to submerge and stay on the surface. They will have no torpedos. If they do it will be the ones that came with the boat. They are two expensive to practise with so the original torpedos will be kept forever. So since this submarine does not fire torpedos anyway there is really no reason to submerge.Easy to see on the surface.

If you think this scenerio sounds impossible,I should probably tell you how they use their F16's

[Somtamnication]

Better hurry up! Those pesky Burmese with their longtail boats have long been a threat to the region.

[Hawk]

This illegal government can do as they please as there is no accountability, only section 44. They have already purchased the 3 submarines which will remain in dry dock, along with the aircraft carrier. These items go well with the non flyable blimp and the Gt200 that could only sniff out money.

[Reigntax]

Subs from China, trains from China, focused on attracting Chinese backpackers (tourists).

Why not just merge the country with China.

I almost forgot, the PM is already trying his best to.

[jamesbrock]

The logic probably goes something like this,

• If I purchase something I can divert a proportion of the price into my own bank account
• If that something is really expensive, I get more money.
• My mate Prayuth is in charge for the foreseeable future so I don't really need work hard to justify my purchase and am unlikely to be answerable for it in the foreseeable future if it all goes pear shaped.
• Its the Navy's turn at the trough, if I don't spend the money on something boaty then it will be used to buy airplanes or tanks.
• I already benefited from the building of the submarine base so why not some submarines to go with it?
• If I buy these submarines from China, I can get them on-line from AliBaba.com They do a really good deal on bulk purchases and there is free delivery.
• Also if I buy from China, they really understand corruption so there is no need to explain it all to them, Germans etc. can be really dense about this.
• We are not at war with any other country, only with ourselves, so the submarines don't really need to work very well, if at all.
• If we keep them at Sattahip they won't have to go deep and they can run on the surface most of the time, or just be parked up next to the aircraft carrier.
• I am too old and too fat to ever need to go in a submarine myself, so that also means their reliability is unimportant.
• With the flooding in Bangkok only likely to get worse in the future, the wife can use the submarines for the school run when they are not required by the Navy.

Unassailable Thainess and logic.

On points 1 & 2, it is widely acknowledged outside of Thailand that commission/finders fees/brokerage/theft—whatever term one wants to use—leads to, under the Junta, "a significant increase in cost to the procurement process of up to 30-40%" [source: Transparency International, http://government.defenceindex.org/generate-report.php?country_id=5652]

So let's use 35% - that means USD$350 million (12.4 billion baht) is going to enrich some (presumably) already rich individuals.

Imagine what that kind of money could be spent on!

[Sawan Chan 7]

The logic probably goes something like this,

• If I purchase something I can divert a proportion of the price into my own bank account
• If that something is really expensive, I get more money.
• My mate Prayuth is in charge for the foreseeable future so I don't really need work hard to justify my purchase and am unlikely to be answerable for it in the foreseeable future if it all goes pear shaped.
• Its the Navy's turn at the trough, if I don't spend the money on something boaty then it will be used to buy airplanes or tanks.
• I already benefited from the building of the submarine base so why not some submarines to go with it?
• If I buy these submarines from China, I can get them on-line from AliBaba.com They do a really good deal on bulk purchases and there is free delivery.
• Also if I buy from China, they really understand corruption so there is no need to explain it all to them, Germans etc. can be really dense about this.
• We are not at war with any other country, only with ourselves, so the submarines don't really need to work very well, if at all.
• If we keep them at Sattahip they won't have to go deep and they can run on the surface most of the time, or just be parked up next to the aircraft carrier.
• I am too old and too fat to ever need to go in a submarine myself, so that also means their reliability is unimportant.
• With the flooding in Bangkok only likely to get worse in the future, the wife can use the submarines for the school run when they are not required by the Navy.

Unassailable Thainess and logic.

Please don't use the word "Thainess" when you obviously don't know what it means.

Otherwise, a good post!

[Tonawatchee]

The subs could be useful for fighting off pink Giant Squids when not chasing illegal fishing boats and or possibly thwarting Spectre from smuggling nuclear devices out of sunken military aircraft.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

What with the Banana boats and other speed boats,and the amount of water they have around them.Whats the betting that if they launch all 3 together,2 of them will still bump into each other?

[JAG]

Will the military's amnesty in the Constitution cover all the corruption, negligence and wasted monies in all these procurement projects?

I should imagine so, it covers just about everything else doesn't it?

[JAG]

Does this have anything to do with a report by the Government,

that reserves had just increased by Billions of THB, a week or

two ago,now the Navy will not take the excuse there's no money

for this.we want the Subs........now!

regards Worgeordie

I expect that they will be paid for out of the Sinking Fund.

[Caveat Emptor]

What's going to happen when members of the Submarine Squadron are found to be unsuitable for their duties etc.

Will the No Fail policy be extended to them as they been waiting so long for this to happen and it would be major loss of face to be rejected ?

[chainarong]

Un- Elected DMP Pawtwit is in here somewhere, I can tell it would be either one of his wasteful idea's or he endorses such a stupid purchase ,with Pawtwit in the Mix , basically it is doomed from the start , Thailand has no need for Submarines, not unless China has applied pressure and that would be for their own ends not for the benefit to Thailand , a point I make, you may have the Andaman Sea to protect. but where did you say your Sub base was? ..........................

[Sawan Chan 7]

The logic probably goes something like this,

• If I purchase something I can divert a proportion of the price into my own bank account
• If that something is really expensive, I get more money.
• My mate Prayuth is in charge for the foreseeable future so I don't really need work hard to justify my purchase and am unlikely to be answerable for it in the foreseeable future if it all goes pear shaped.
• Its the Navy's turn at the trough, if I don't spend the money on something boaty then it will be used to buy airplanes or tanks.
• I already benefited from the building of the submarine base so why not some submarines to go with it?
• If I buy these submarines from China, I can get them on-line from AliBaba.com They do a really good deal on bulk purchases and there is free delivery.
• Also if I buy from China, they really understand corruption so there is no need to explain it all to them, Germans etc. can be really dense about this.
• We are not at war with any other country, only with ourselves, so the submarines don't really need to work very well, if at all.
• If we keep them at Sattahip they won't have to go deep and they can run on the surface most of the time, or just be parked up next to the aircraft carrier.
• I am too old and too fat to ever need to go in a submarine myself, so that also means their reliability is unimportant.
• With the flooding in Bangkok only likely to get worse in the future, the wife can use the submarines for the school run when they are not required by the Navy.

Unassailable Thainess and logic.

Please don't use the word "Thainess" when you obviously don't know what it means.

Otherwise, a good post!

Does anyone know what "Thainess" really means? To me it means Thai HiSo like behaviour as portrayed by a hundred Ch3 and Ch7 soaps.

To others it means following the "12 core values" (many of which are mainly notable for their absence from Thai politics and culture).

To this "Diplomat" writer it means using female objectification to mask authoritarian rule "A closer look at the gendered identity of state-created “Thainess.” " http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/selling-thailand-gender-tourism-and-female-objectification/

It is a made up word implying Thais have a common cultural heritage which is patently not true so I suggest everyone is free to interpret it as any behaviour which is exhibited by a significant section of the Thai population, from corruption to scams, to careless driving to great cooking to hospitality to love of slapstick humour to reverence of the royal family to tendency to perpetrate military coups to lousy education to .......etc.

Please enlighten everyone as to your definition as "obviously" you have one.

Sorry tuanku, you are wrong here.

There's a big difference to what farang think Thainess is than what Thais know Thainess is.

It is not a made up word, as such. if you spoke, Thai, you would know it means "kwam bpen Thai", sorry no Thai writing allowed. You could then stick that in your google and read about it.

I'm confused, you watch a hundred Thai soaps, or did someone tell you that?

It most certainly isn't corruption or scams.

Here's my translation of what Thainess actually is

Thainess:-

- Refers to things that indicate the nature of the Thai people, art, culture, customs and traditions of the Thai.

- Those who proudly love Thainess, appreciate, praise, and protect by their conduct, the continuation and propagation of Thai people’s attributes along with Art, Culture, Customs and Traditions

Good characteristics of a Thai(Ethics, Gratitude, Benevolence, Sacrifice)

Thai ethics

- Showing respect

- Speech

- Dress conduct

- deference

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[somo]

36 billion baht !

Just imagine if was thrown into healt, education etc how many people would actually benefit .

But no here we have an illegal military regime tightening the noose on its own people while squandering away money on useless projects. With no mandate and obviously no one even near qualified to make important decisions when it comes to the big picture.

Yes.. and how about the 500 billion from the rice program ? (just to put it in perspective)

Sure its wasteful. the 500 billion was just criminal.

The rice program was an ill concieved attempt to help the poor. Some, not all, of the money was diverted by the rich into their own pockets. Many of those rich now run the country. However none of the money was lost. It remained in Thailand and was recirculated.

Buying useless equipment from another country because some of the rulers want new toys is indeed a total loss to Thailand as the money goes abroad and is not recirculated and guess who has to fund it. The poor!

Once they realize they don't know how to drive the stupid things they will probably end up patrolling the klongs in Bangkok on the lookout for subversive elements determined to wear the colour red and reading banned books.

[Enoon]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

The US hasn't alienated Thailand at all.

It's only put the the illegal military government on notice that they are not swallowing all their bullsh*t. The way you have.

As soon as the people throw out these morons and get back to a democracy you will see the US back in a big way.

And the people, I mean the millions of ordinary Thais, have plenty of respect for the USA, unlike their feelings for the Chinese.

The first time that I saw a look of disgust and disapproval on the face of a Thai person (and heard that any people were "no good") was when I mentioned the Chinese.

That was 8 years ago, before Sino-tourist "incidents" began making the news.

[Enoon]

36 billion baht !

Just imagine if was thrown into healt, education etc how many people would actually benefit .

But no here we have an illegal military regime tightening the noose on its own people while squandering away money on useless projects. With no mandate and obviously no one even near qualified to make important decisions when it comes to the big picture.

Yes.. and how about the 500 billion from the rice program ? (just to put it in perspective)

Sure its wasteful. the 500 billion was just criminal.

What rice program was that?

I don't think I've heard of it.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Enoon

[dcnx]

Countdown to the first submarine crash.

[Basil B]

Q1. What is the average height of a submarine, Keel to top of the conning tower?

Q2. What is the average depth of the waters the Subs will be patrolling?

A. If Q1 > Q2 then

[Kiwiken]

Countdown to the first submarine crash.

No crash most likely engines will be removed to run pumps to drain Bangkok in wet season so that beloved Capital does not become Submarine.

[jaiyen]

If Thailand hasnt had a sub for 65 years, then that means that there are no submariners or anyone capable of being captain or crew of the useless Chines subs. First problem.....all the signs and labels are in Chinese. A Thai would never find the start button !

So the subs will sit and rust away just like the aircraft carrier with no planes.

[ratcatcher]

Q1. What is the average height of a submarine, Keel to top of the conning tower?

Q2. What is the average depth of the waters the Subs will be patrolling?

A. If Q1 > Q2 then

The subs will be based in Sattahip naval base, but the minister said they were needed to patrol the deeper waters of the Andaman Sea. Perhaps they will build another sub base in Phuket or simply acquire another set of subs for the Andaman. Money is obviously no object here.

http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2015/06/chinese-yuan-submarines-for-thailand.html

ype: SSK Displacement: 3,600 t (3,500 long tons) (submerged) Length: 77.6 m (254 ft 7 in)^[3] Beam: 8.4 meters^[3] Draft: 6.7 meter square.^[3] Propulsion: Diesel-electric, 1 shaft, AIP Speed: 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) Test depth: 400 m Complement: 38 Armament: 6 × 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes, Anti-Ship missiles

• Royal Thai Navy - On 2 July 2015, The Royal Thai Navy (RTN) has formally selected China's Yuan-class (Type 041) platform to meet a requirement for three submarines, the RTN's procurement committee voted unanimously in favour of purchasing the submarine, which has been designated S26T (Thailand): a reference to a modified export version of the Yuan-class.^[15] On 1 Jul 2016, The Royal Thai navy has submitted a funding plan for its 36 billion baht submarine procurement project to the cabinet for consideration with the tied-over budget for the subs to be spread over 11 years, a navy source says. The source said Thursday that if the cabinet approves the funding plan, the first submarine will be bought at a cost of 13 billion baht between fiscal years 2017-2021. The second and third submarines will be purchased under the tied-over budget during the remainder of the 11-year period, the source added.^[16]

Wikipedia.

[Rhys]

Oh come on, let them float the sub on the royal barges up the river,and sell souvenirs, surely this can pay for the sub, double price for the westerners of course.

[Scotwight]

Chinese Engineering is terrible.

Thais are terrible mechanics.

Yeah, this will do a lot od sea time.

Three Gorges Dam (Sandouping, Hubei, China)

Record it breaks: The world’s largest hydroelectric power station and world’s largest concrete structure.

Let me spell it out for you: out of five Shuttles–Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavor—two met a disastrous and fiery fate. That’s a 40% vehicular failure rate (updated) and a flight failure rate of 1.5%.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/04/18/5-horrifying-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-space-shuttle/#4a24c1e567b9

Edited July 2, 2016 by Scotwight

[BSJ]

Chinese Engineering is terrible.

Thais are terrible mechanics.

Yeah, this will do a lot od sea time.

Three Gorges Dam (Sandouping, Hubei, China)

Record it breaks: The world’s largest hydroelectric power station and world’s largest concrete structure.

Let me spell it out for you: out of five Shuttles–Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavor—two met a disastrous and fiery fate. That’s a 40% vehicular failure rate (updated) and a flight failure rate of 1.5%.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/04/18/5-horrifying-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-space-shuttle/#4a24c1e567b9

I get your point....but there is a big difference pouring concrete and sending rockets out into space!

[Scotwight]

Chinese Engineering is terrible.

Thais are terrible mechanics.

Yeah, this will do a lot od sea time.

Three Gorges Dam (Sandouping, Hubei, China)

Record it breaks: The world’s largest hydroelectric power station and world’s largest concrete structure.

Let me spell it out for you: out of five Shuttles–Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavor—two met a disastrous and fiery fate. That’s a 40% vehicular failure rate (updated) and a flight failure rate of 1.5%.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/04/18/5-horrifying-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-space-shuttle/#4a24c1e567b9

I get your point....but there is a big difference pouring concrete and sending rockets out into space!

I get tired of the anti Asian racism here. The Asian kids in American schools are always at the top of the class academically.

[eddie61]

The fact that the gulf of Thailand is too shallow should not stand in the way of this purchase. The entire gulf could be dredged to a depth of 100 meters to allow submarines to operate effectively.

The dredged silt could be dumped in Bangkok to stop the city from being inundated in the next 50 years.

The governor of BKK would agree, as then, instead of Bangkokians moving to the mountain, the mountain would move to Bangkok.

The Chinese could manage the project, ensuring the future of their territorial ambitions.

An all round perfect solution!

Edited July 2, 2016 by eddie61

[Thechook]

Why don't they get that rusting aircraft carrier they had to have going first.

[lvr181]

No reasoned valid argument will ever outweigh the lust for power and or money. And yet again, the average Thai citizen will "pay" dearly for the whims of the rich and powerful.