‘Do you think we’ll pay for bad things we’ve done?’ Revelations of Aussie sex tourists in Thailand

[GAZZPA]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Never got to see it, wish I had. But seen a few interviews with "ex prostitutes" and the theme is basically the same.

It is not hard for a sensible person to understand that a woman does not really want to have multiples of guys relieving themselves on them 2 or 3 times a night. At least not a stretch for me and I hope most other people to understand.

I do accept that many chose to do this but it's not really choice if they have no real opportunities in the employment market to make decent money. And once there, they get trapped very quickly. And of course many do not chose.

However, there are die hard prostitute fans on here that will never consider anything except their own views that it is normal, helps the economy, helps the women and many other points that I personally don't buy. I suspect mostly because they are frequent users of prostitutes and they have to fight the corner and convince themselves it's all for a good cause.

I wonder if they would feel the same if it was their daughter that chose prostitution, or maybe for some their grand daughter or how about wife or girlfriend? If the profession is ok then it's ok right, so surely it would be acceptable for their wives / girlfriends to go and earn a decent living selling herself?

Won't say anymore, there is not much point. Many have made their points to death (including me) and people will chose to accept and believe whatever they chose.

[Winniedapu]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

[Sawan Chan 7]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

[Winniedapu]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Never got to see it, wish I had. But seen a few interviews with "ex prostitutes" and the theme is basically the same.

It is not hard for a sensible person to understand that a woman does not really want to have multiples of guys relieving themselves on them 2 or 3 times a night. At least not a stretch for me and I hope most other people to understand.

I do accept that many chose to do this but it's not really choice if they have no real opportunities in the employment market to make decent money. And once there, they get trapped very quickly. And of course many do not chose.

However, there are die hard prostitute fans on here that will never consider anything except their own views that it is normal, helps the economy, helps the women and many other points that I personally don't buy. I suspect mostly because they are frequent users of prostitutes and they have to fight the corner and convince themselves it's all for a good cause.

I wonder if they would feel the same if it was their daughter that chose prostitution, or maybe for some their grand daughter or how about wife or girlfriend? If the profession is ok then it's ok right, so surely it would be acceptable for their wives / girlfriends to go and earn a decent living selling herself?

Won't say anymore, there is not much point. Many have made their points to death (including me) and people will chose to accept and believe whatever they chose.

"However, there are die hard prostitute fans on here that will never consider anything except their own views that it is normal, helps the economy, helps the women and many other points that I personally don't buy. I suspect mostly because they are frequent users of prostitutes and they have to fight the corner and convince themselves it's all for a good cause."

IMHO, it isn't that. IMHO, the (mainly men) people who defend prostitution in the terms you describe, know they are behaving according to their basest instincts but can't control it and likely feel ashamed of it (though they would as soon pluck out an eye and hand it to you as admit that). So they try to pretend (to themselves primarily, though they may be talking to someone else as well), that since the service is being voluntarily offered, they are less animalistic for accepting it that they might otherwise feel.

It's self deception at it's finest, but it serves the purpose of helping them to feel good about themselves, and these people always seem to spend a good proportion of their time doing just that in one way or another.

Wouldn't suit me at all, but many of them seem to be successful in their quest for additional self-esteem.

And there is a point. You writing and someone else reading and trying to understand, has an effect on you and on them. Every exchange of views is a buy/sell transaction. This is a known equation, otherwise you wouldn't feel drawn to express your views on TV, so don't stop doing that...

Winnie

[GAZZPA]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Never got to see it, wish I had. But seen a few interviews with "ex prostitutes" and the theme is basically the same.

It is not hard for a sensible person to understand that a woman does not really want to have multiples of guys relieving themselves on them 2 or 3 times a night. At least not a stretch for me and I hope most other people to understand.

I do accept that many chose to do this but it's not really choice if they have no real opportunities in the employment market to make decent money. And once there, they get trapped very quickly. And of course many do not chose.

However, there are die hard prostitute fans on here that will never consider anything except their own views that it is normal, helps the economy, helps the women and many other points that I personally don't buy. I suspect mostly because they are frequent users of prostitutes and they have to fight the corner and convince themselves it's all for a good cause.

I wonder if they would feel the same if it was their daughter that chose prostitution, or maybe for some their grand daughter or how about wife or girlfriend? If the profession is ok then it's ok right, so surely it would be acceptable for their wives / girlfriends to go and earn a decent living selling herself?

Won't say anymore, there is not much point. Many have made their points to death (including me) and people will chose to accept and believe whatever they chose.

"However, there are die hard prostitute fans on here that will never consider anything except their own views that it is normal, helps the economy, helps the women and many other points that I personally don't buy. I suspect mostly because they are frequent users of prostitutes and they have to fight the corner and convince themselves it's all for a good cause."

IMHO, it isn't that. IMHO, the (mainly men) people who defend prostitution in the terms you describe, know they are behaving according to their basest instincts but can't control it and likely feel ashamed of it (though they would as soon pluck out an eye and hand it to you as admit that). So they try to pretend (to themselves primarily, though they may be talking to someone else as well), that since the service is being voluntarily offered, they are less animalistic for accepting it that they might otherwise feel.

It's self deception at it's finest, but it serves the purpose of helping them to feel good about themselves, and these people always seem to spend a good proportion of their time doing just that in one way or another.

Wouldn't suit me at all, but many of them seem to be successful in their quest for additional self-esteem.

And there is a point. You writing and someone else reading and trying to understand, has an effect on you and on them. Every exchange of views is a buy/sell transaction. This is a known equation, otherwise you wouldn't feel drawn to express your views on TV, so don't stop doing that...

Winnie

Good post sensible views, thank you.

True, we all feel compelled to say what we feel, it's especially true in the case of this topic. Widely varying views always makes for interesting debate and I do agree with your point that views are a buy and exchange process. I won't stop making my points, despite the barage of attacks accusing me of being multiples of things, only a decent argument and a solid justification could ever make me change my mind, and I have have seen none of those.

I can only hope that someone reading this who does frequently use prostitutes may read the views against and think twice about taking that next girl home, even if they don't admit it on here.

[slipperylobster]

Do you think we will pay for bad things we have done?

Sure. If I have to pay for the bad sex I dish out.....then why not the rest?

[haroldc]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

[Johnniey]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

I read the link too and feel that it applies to all sex workers.

Do you ever give these friends money?

Christ, many prostitutes even many their clients but they don't actually like them! The are good actors.

BTW Harold, I've been in Thailand over 30 years and known many sex workers, ex-sex workers, sex-worker wives, and may ex-sex-worker wives and husbands too.

[cumgranosalum]

It's interesting to note that whilst the OP is largely about the MEN involved those trying to justify their behaviour have concentrated on the WOMEN - using quasi sociological and economical terms and constructs with a sprinkling of misogyny, presumably in a desperate hope to divert the discussion from the uncomfortable truths about themselves?

Edited July 7, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[haroldc]

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

I read the link too and feel that it applies to all sex workers.

Do you ever give these friends money?

Christ, many prostitutes even many their clients but they don't actually like them! The are good actors.

BTW Harold, I've been in Thailand over 30 years and known many sex workers, ex-sex workers, sex-worker wives, and may ex-sex-worker wives and husbands too.

Of course I gave them money when they were working and when I was a client. But that aspects of my relationship with them ended quite some time ago. Sometimes they lend me some some money when my pension payment arrives late.

[Johnniey]

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

I read the link too and feel that it applies to all sex workers.

Do you ever give these friends money?

Christ, many prostitutes even many their clients but they don't actually like them! The are good actors.

BTW Harold, I've been in Thailand over 30 years and known many sex workers, ex-sex workers, sex-worker wives, and may ex-sex-worker wives and husbands too.

Of course I gave them money when they were working and when I was a client. But that aspects of my relationship with them ended quite some time ago. Sometimes they lend me some some money when my pension payment arrives late.

The question was, "do you ever give them money?" as in now.

[GAZZPA]

It's interesting to note that whilst the OP is largely about the MEN involved those trying to justify their behaviour have concentrated on the WOMEN - using quasi sociological and economical terms and constructs with a sprinkling of misogyny, presumably in a desperate hope to divert the discussion from the uncomfortable truths about themselves?

I suspect more then a sprinkling of misogyny. My impression is that many of the men come from broken relationships, perhaps where the wife has ended up with the house or a lot of money.

I think using prostitutes is driven by a false belief that the sex is better practiced as a detached, unemotional affair and in no way is a commitment to a relationship necessary to fulfil the basic human needs. Also kidding themselves that the prostitutes are "enjoying" the practice of multiplies of partners each night and going home blissfully happy after being paid for multiples of orgasms kindly provided by the said men.

I have seen the word "feminazi" I think and quotations that Western women effectively take, take, take and then have sex making them no different from a prostitute. I think women (not just Western) may have something to say about that and I would not want to be the one to tell them.

So, yes it would make sense, some very uncomfortable truths.

[GAZZPA]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

Just read it. Do you think all those men on this forum will re think about their claims that the women are happy and enjoy their profession after reading this? Many on here truly believe what the prostitutes tell them, and that they chose to do it and enjoy earning the money,,, I think most sensible people are not so naive.

I wonder if it will even be given consideration by the advocates, whether they will at least start to question their own beliefs, I hope so but I am doubtful.

[haroldc]

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

I read the link too and feel that it applies to all sex workers.

Do you ever give these friends money?

Christ, many prostitutes even many their clients but they don't actually like them! The are good actors.

BTW Harold, I've been in Thailand over 30 years and known many sex workers, ex-sex workers, sex-worker wives, and may ex-sex-worker wives and husbands too.

Of course I gave them money when they were working and when I was a client. But that aspects of my relationship with them ended quite some time ago. Sometimes they lend me some some money when my pension payment arrives late.

The question was, "do you ever give them money?" as in now.

Sometimes I give them money to buy food for us to eat together. Sometimes I lend them 500-1000 baht just like they sometimes lend me 500-1000 baht.

[GAZZPA]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

"some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice they have made, and some enjoy it."

Come on fella, what will it take for you to even consider, just to consider that by and large women are not happy selling their bodies at all? And that they really do not open up to clients about their true feelings, even older clients.

And surely you must concede that it is their job to lie to punters or potential punters.

So many naive men, I can't believe they really believe what they are saying. Just because you talk to them does not mean you understand. There are many times i have been approached by prostitutes, here, in Hong Kong, China and also Eastern Europe. I have had fairly lengthy conversations, almost all of it nonsense and I didn't believe a word coming out of their mouths.

I am getting into the frustrated mindset again,,,,

[GAZZPA]

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

I read the link too and feel that it applies to all sex workers.

Do you ever give these friends money?

Christ, many prostitutes even many their clients but they don't actually like them! The are good actors.

BTW Harold, I've been in Thailand over 30 years and known many sex workers, ex-sex workers, sex-worker wives, and may ex-sex-worker wives and husbands too.

Of course I gave them money when they were working and when I was a client. But that aspects of my relationship with them ended quite some time ago. Sometimes they lend me some some money when my pension payment arrives late.

The question was, "do you ever give them money?" as in now.

Sometimes I give them money to buy food for us to eat together. Sometimes I lend them 500-1000 baht just like they sometimes lend me 500-1000 baht.

I think the point is you have stopped giving them money now you are no longer having sex with them.

So, their financial well being is not something that you consider now there is nothing in it for you.

[daoyai]

Brother Gazzy , I appreciate you are starting to open up and reveal some of your inner demons. you are really getting it when you say by and large, women are not happy selling their bodies but that leaves a tiny minority that ARE happy selling their bodies OR think of it as well paying employment. a tiny minority ... wild girls, and they do ok. ... You see bro Gazz, you and jonny, deal in absolutes, the world doesn't work that way.

[haroldc]

Of course I gave them money when they were working and when I was a client. But that aspects of my relationship with them ended quite some time ago. Sometimes they lend me some some money when my pension payment arrives late.

The question was, "do you ever give them money?" as in now.

Sometimes I give them money to buy food for us to eat together. Sometimes I lend them 500-1000 baht just like they sometimes lend me 500-1000 baht.

I think the point is you have stopped giving them money now you are no longer having sex with them.

So, their financial well being is not something that you consider now there is nothing in it for you.

I feel sorry for you. Can you not imagine a close friendship relationship that doesn't involve money? My sex worker and ex-sex worker friends are intelligent, good-hearted people. We spend hours talking (I am fluent in Thai) and laughing together. Just like with my non-sex worker friends, no difference whatsoever.

Edited July 7, 2016 by haroldc

[eldragon]

‘if your daughter ended up in Thailand and didn’t have any way to make money, and she was working in one of these bars, would you mind if I went and had sex with her? Would you see that as me helping her?’

What if one of your close female friends decides she wants to be a hooker so she can make some extra money and is totally okay with renting time between her legs? Are you really helping her by trying to rescue her?

[jak2002003]

If all parties are legal age and consenting there is no problem. If the sex industry was legalised it would only be a positive thing, for the people in this kind of work.

I personally I don't like prostitution, and I have low opinions of the kind of people who frequent these places, but that is my personal view, for my personal lifestyle. I have no right to tell consenting adults what they can and can't do with their lives.

I don't like it even more when Christian freaks start interfering with things they have no understand about.. and they have their own twisted agenda for 'helping' their 'poor innocent delicate abused women'. Same reason they have to helping the hill tribe 'orphans' and trying to get Thais to attend the local Church and give up they religion.

I am not ashamed to say I have several good friends who work in the sex industry. I can assure you they were never being exploited, in fact they do at great job of exploiting their unsuspecting customers. And there are many well qualified sex workers too, but they choose to do their current job, rather than a lower paying or more boring or time consuming 'normal' job. Its not only women that do these jobs, there are many men, straight and gay, but these are not 'helped and rescued' by the kind Christian folk... as they are not as pretty I suspect.

This is a difficult and dangerous kind of job for anyone to do. It can be the ruin of many peoples lives. But at the end of the day we all have the right to choose to live how we want. If they would rather work in the sex industry rather than in the supermarket, office, or on the farm, than that's the choice they make, and many make a very good living from it.

We have no right to tell people what they do is wrong or force them to do other jobs.

Each to his / her own.

Each to their own eh! Unless it comes to something you disagree with then they are "freaks",,, such as, well lets say religion as a wild guess to where your hypocrisy lies. Despite most of the world having one faith or another.

So you believe because most people believe in something or are doing something then that is right? Most people on this thread agree with prostitution, so should you should stop posting that it is wrong?

You know as well as I do I am talking about consenting adults here, people who are both into what they are doing, and don't harm the other.

Religious nutters always harm people, they twist and warp vulnerable peoples minds. They force their religious morals and views on the rest of society, and help grow hatred and persecution for minority groups, and any one in society who does not believe in what they dictate. Here in Thailand they take pride in destroying ethnic groups cultures and families.

[Winniedapu]

If all parties are legal age and consenting there is no problem. If the sex industry was legalised it would only be a positive thing, for the people in this kind of work.

I personally I don't like prostitution, and I have low opinions of the kind of people who frequent these places, but that is my personal view, for my personal lifestyle. I have no right to tell consenting adults what they can and can't do with their lives.

I don't like it even more when Christian freaks start interfering with things they have no understand about.. and they have their own twisted agenda for 'helping' their 'poor innocent delicate abused women'. Same reason they have to helping the hill tribe 'orphans' and trying to get Thais to attend the local Church and give up they religion.

I am not ashamed to say I have several good friends who work in the sex industry. I can assure you they were never being exploited, in fact they do at great job of exploiting their unsuspecting customers. And there are many well qualified sex workers too, but they choose to do their current job, rather than a lower paying or more boring or time consuming 'normal' job. Its not only women that do these jobs, there are many men, straight and gay, but these are not 'helped and rescued' by the kind Christian folk... as they are not as pretty I suspect.

This is a difficult and dangerous kind of job for anyone to do. It can be the ruin of many peoples lives. But at the end of the day we all have the right to choose to live how we want. If they would rather work in the sex industry rather than in the supermarket, office, or on the farm, than that's the choice they make, and many make a very good living from it.

We have no right to tell people what they do is wrong or force them to do other jobs.

Each to his / her own.

Each to their own eh! Unless it comes to something you disagree with then they are "freaks",,, such as, well lets say religion as a wild guess to where your hypocrisy lies. Despite most of the world having one faith or another.

So you believe because most people believe in something or are doing something then that is right? Most people on this thread agree with prostitution, so should you should stop posting that it is wrong?

You know as well as I do I am talking about consenting adults here, people who are both into what they are doing, and don't harm the other.

Religious nutters always harm people, they twist and warp vulnerable peoples minds. They force their religious morals and views on the rest of society, and help grow hatred and persecution for minority groups, and any one in society who does not believe in what they dictate. Here in Thailand they take pride in destroying ethnic groups cultures and families.

In my opinion, what you have written suggests a number of problems, which I believe would benefit from attention. Not a criticism, a suggestion; you probably know what I'm talking about.

Winnie

Edited July 7, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Plutojames88]

Alot of the narrative here is demonisation of the trade , and accusing other men unfairly.

I have personal reservations about the obvious moral questions.

Whilst I concede and highlight the dangerous , the agency of woman acting independent should be recognised as factual.

"Conceding choice is the first step in this argument .

The reality is a quarter of woman have jobs already when they switch or add this profession "

"" Give woman some free will in this debate instead of taking away their agency of choice and casting them as victims"

""How is society to respond to prostitution?

Is it a legitimate profession of choice?

Is there anything wrong with a woman using her sexual freedom in this way?

These questions are both for law makers and people to decide

People who are ok with it should not be demonised or accused of being users.

Elderly feminists now in some circles recognise the woman's choice.

What is so difficult to accept about the man who explicitly solicits sex? Is he less of a man? Is the prostitute dehumanized, i.e. less of a woman? What limits her agency within the structures she is a part of? Is it possible to be a sex worker and not a damaged, suffering woman in need of rescue?

Is it possible to be a man that travels to Thailand to buy sex and not be all that we think he is? Why dont men identify themselves as sex tourists? Why do we empathize with Good Girl of Bangkok, and project injury onto her?

Most literature on the prostitute is written through the lens of feminist theory, however the highly gendered nature of the work unfortunately serves to reinforce the very categories feminism hopes to deconstruct ""

The reality is these people selling their bodies exist in some instances happily.

They have modern day devices to screen and even choose who to go with.

The old worn out stereotype of 60 year old and 22 year old isn't always a fair observation.

Many girls freelance in discos and refuse men.

Choosing someone younger.

Making $250 USD for a night.

They turn up at their regular job next morning.

Some have websites.

Are these woman in need of rescue also?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Plutojames88

[cumgranosalum]

Shame that letter from a prostitute was deleted.

It said it all.

They hate their work and EVERY client they have.

That includes YOU MrX in Pattaya.

Why was it deleted? Who deleted it? Anyone know?

Winnie

The link was from a source not allowed on this forum.

However you can find it here, I assume this link is allowed.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/588738-former-prostitue-pens-sobering-message-to-clients/

Read the link already. Sad... But Nearlynam should have commented "She hated her work and EVERY client she had," and not have generalized it to all sex workers. I've been in Thailand for almost 30 years, have met many women doing this work, and some have become long-term friends. I can assure you that -- in Thailand, at least -- the majority of women sex workers do not feel as Ms. Rahm does. Some don't particularly like the work, most are comfortable with the choice that they have made, and some enjoy it. As for their feelings about clients, it depends on the client. I'm 69 and have terminal cancer, am no longer a client, and my sex worker friends still call me, visit me at home, and even accompany me when I go to the hospital.

"there's no fool like an old fool"

[Plutojames88]

""The other glaring audacity here is men believing they even have a judgemental right over the sex worker or user.""

""It's borderline dogmatic to see these transactions as always harmful""

Often these groups trying to protect woman ignore their rights.

Ironically, in CATWs efforts to protect women from subjugation by sex trafficking, protective legislations are established which arguably inhibit womens agency further

For by seeking protection from the very structures that restrict agency, the injured identity and patriarchal structures of dominance are reaffirmed a similar claim by saying, the argument that women require protection from and by men has been widely dismissed.

By identifying any woman as prostitute, we remove her identity as mother or daughter or friend.

It may also be noted that identity based on injury cannot let go of that injury without ceasing to exist

That is, without injury, the carefully constructed prostitute identity that activist groups rely on does not exist.

We see terminally ill posters here speaking of them as friends , whilst he is in need and this is refuted.

Prostitutes to these people can only exist as damaged victims.

The reality is many accumulate high incomes , some wouldn't wish to leave, others marry up, and some do retire with few regrets.

These are not opinions but facts.

No amount of arrogance or make believe or holier than thou can alter this simple truth that a proportion of sex workers are successful in achieving what they set out to do.

Damage in vice industry exists on both sides .

However , it's shallow to portray all woman in the sex trade as victims.

Even degrading to them and their choices.

[cumgranosalum]

""The other glaring audacity here is men believing they even have a judgemental right over the sex worker or user.""

""It's borderline dogmatic to see these transactions as always harmful""

Often these groups trying to protect woman ignore their rights.

Ironically, in CATWs efforts to protect women from subjugation by sex trafficking, protective legislations are established which arguably inhibit womens agency further

For by seeking protection from the very structures that restrict agency, the injured identity and patriarchal structures of dominance are reaffirmed a similar claim by saying, the argument that women require protection from and by men has been widely dismissed.

By identifying any woman as prostitute, we remove her identity as mother or daughter or friend.

It may also be noted that identity based on injury cannot let go of that injury without ceasing to exist

That is, without injury, the carefully constructed prostitute identity that activist groups rely on does not exist.

We see terminally ill posters here speaking of them as friends , whilst he is in need and this is refuted.

Prostitutes to these people can only exist as damaged victims.

The reality is many accumulate high incomes , some wouldn't wish to leave, others marry up, and some do retire with few regrets.

These are not opinions but facts.

No amount of arrogance or make believe or holier than thou can alter this simple truth that a proportion of sex workers are successful in achieving what they set out to do.

Damage in vice industry exists on both sides .

However , it's shallow to portray all woman in the sex trade as victims.

Even degrading to them and their choices.

Rather than focusing on you misplaced economic theories and schoolboy psychology, why not tell why you feel the need to use prostitutes? After all that is what the thread is about, in the end isn't it - as a large number are clearly customers trying to defend their vacuous lifestyle.

Edited July 8, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Plutojames88]

I don't ...again personal attacks ....no reasoning

[eldragon]

Alot of the narrative here is demonisation of the trade , and accusing other men unfairly.

I have personal reservations about the obvious moral questions.

Whilst I concede and highlight the dangerous , the agency of woman acting independent should be recognised as factual.

"Conceding choice is the first step in this argument .

The reality is a quarter of woman have jobs already when they switch or add this profession "

"" Give woman some free will in this debate instead of taking away their agency of choice and casting them as victims"

""How is society to respond to prostitution?

Is it a legitimate profession of choice?

Is there anything wrong with a woman using her sexual freedom in this way?

These questions are both for law makers and people to decide

People who are ok with it should not be demonised or accused of being users.

Elderly feminists now in some circles recognise the woman's choice.

What is so difficult to accept about the man who explicitly solicits sex? Is he less of a man? Is the prostitute dehumanized, i.e. less of a woman? What limits her agency within the structures she is a part of? Is it possible to be a sex worker and not a damaged, suffering woman in need of rescue?

Is it possible to be a man that travels to Thailand to buy sex and not be all that we think he is? Why dont men identify themselves as sex tourists? Why do we empathize with Good Girl of Bangkok, and project injury onto her?

Most literature on the prostitute is written through the lens of feminist theory, however the highly gendered nature of the work unfortunately serves to reinforce the very categories feminism hopes to deconstruct ""

The reality is these people selling their bodies exist in some instances happily.

They have modern day devices to screen and even choose who to go with.

The old worn out stereotype of 60 year old and 22 year old isn't always a fair observation.

Many girls freelance in discos and refuse men.

Choosing someone younger.

Making $250 USD for a night.

They turn up at their regular job next morning.

Some have websites.

Are these woman in need of rescue also?

The only real issue in this debate is choice. When there is none, it's wrong, same as the guys on the fishing boats. The feminist lens has been preaching a woman's right to choose for years with regards to abortion. It's ironic that many of those same feminists oppose willful prostitution.

[Johnniey]

Seem to gone off topic.

Will the Ozzie guys pay for the bad things they've done? This depends on whether you believe in Karma or not. What you reap is what you sow etc.

People in Pattaya will, for obvious reasons, not look introspectively. They are the laughing stock of most of the world yet have been struggling desperately to convince themselves that the girls there are not even prostitutes but willing bar-girls who enjoy having sex with them, which to any detached observer is plain ridiculous.

[daoyai]

Yes back on topic, it seems "Dan" went looking for underage, trafficed, enslaved girls in the tourist oriented bar scene. Not finding any he had to change his focus. Poor lad, if he went to where the real trafficers opperate he would not survive.