Bill On Computer Crimes And Penalties Approved In Principle

[Jai Dee]

THAILAND: NLA accepts for scrutiny bill on computer crimes and penalties

Assembly members raise concerns for individuals' rights

The National Legislative Assembly (NLA) yesterday approved in principle a bill which will allow the state to punish people responsible for computer-based crimes including data theft and the dissemination of pornographic materials. A vetting committee is set to scrutinise the bill in seven days.

The bill, accepted by the NLA in a 170 to 4 vote, is sponsored by the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Ministry. It seeks imprisonment and fines for those found guilty of crimes of theft and destruction of data, dissemination of falsified data, and of pornographic materials. For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law.

The bill will govern the use of not only computer-based communications but also devices capable of similar functions including mobile phones.

However, assembly members raised concerns that the legislation should also protect individuals' rights and curb the authority of officials who regulate communications.

Assemblyman Chalongphob Sussangkarn said the legislation should punish only those who intentionally commit an offence. The stipulated 30-day seizure of computers belonging to offenders, and confiscation of relevant equipment and data should also not be based on officials' judgement only, he said.

Another NLA member, Viriya Namsiripongpan, suggested officials be forced to seek a court warrant before making any seizures to prevent unfair treatment.

As the bill will tackle any content deemed as threatening to national security, NLA member Somkiart Onwimol warned that criticisms against the government should not be defined as "threatening content" or it could deprive people of their freedom of expression.

Assemblyman Borwornsak Uwanno suggested the bill be widened to cover "improper" content uploaded to overseas servers and the spread of internet messages originating from overseas-registered domains which offend the monarchial institution.

Another member, Kanchana Silpa-archa, said measures should be put in place to control internet cafes where users need not identify themselves.

ICT Minister Sitthichai Pokai-udom promised to consider the suggestions and reservations floated by the assembly members during the scrutiny process of the bill.

He said he received a number of complaints about the danger of hackers and the spread of pornography. He would propose separate bills in the future to specifically regulate internet cafes, electronic payment and the protection of personal data, he said.

Source: AsiaMedia - 16 November 2006

[Jai Dee]

NLA passes first reading of bill on computer crimes

The National Legislative Assembly (NLA) Wednesday ran a "quick and smooth" session to accept a draft bill on illegal acts concerning computer use into further consideration.

Debating less than two hours since early afternoon, the 242 member assembly had witnessed about 10 members raise their points over the first draft bill proposed by the government under Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont.

No war of words took place in the debate as there were neither government nor opposition parties in the assembly. All the NLA members were appointed by leaders of the September 19 coup.

The bill, which aims to punish computer hackers and Internet pornographic providers, passed with 170 members in support into the second step that an ad hoc panel could amend or change some of its contents.

Source: The Nation - 16 November 2006

[baabaabobo]

"For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law."

Surely this is the thin end of the wedge. Forwarding any email is a private affair and not subject to any laws. Taken to it's extreme sending a picture of a sexy girl to a friend abroad could land you with a prison sentence? Is this for real?

[ColPyat]

And yet another Thaksin policy is passed.

Particularly frightening are the parts that deal with "national security", especially when passed by a non-elected parliament appointed by a military junta.

[astral]

The next step will be to clearly define what the mean my pornographic.........

One man's art is another man/woman's porn.

[Thaddeus]

The next step will be to clearly define what the mean my pornographic.........

One man's art is another man/woman's porn.

Is this going to threaten one of my most beloved threads?

And I notice

For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law.

So, it's Ok to receive one then as long as you just keep/delete it.

[Old Man River]

The next step will be to clearly define what the mean my pornographic.........

One man's art is another man/woman's porn.

While I fully agree with your comments, ICT Minister Prof. Sitthichai said that even the most avid freedom of speech advocates would change their minds if they saw doctored pictures of their daughter's head on a naked body posted on the internet.

I have a daughter and he does have a point.

[Crossy]

While I fully agree with your comments, ......... the internet.

Obviously the example quoted is way over the line and should be punished to the full extent of whatever law we can use.

The problem is defining where the line goes. The US won't allow nipples to be shown on broadcast TV, The Netherlands allow just about anything after 9pm, certainly naked breasts at any time is ok, who is 'right'??

[womble]

The next step will be to clearly define what the mean my pornographic.........

One man's art is another man/woman's porn.

While I fully agree with your comments, ICT Minister Prof. Sitthichai said that even the most avid freedom of speech advocates would change their minds if they saw doctored pictures of their daughter's head on a naked body posted on the internet.

I have a daughter and he does have a point.

i hope the guy that did that goes to prison.

I'm sure that's what has brought about this new law.

[Steph1012]

While I fully agree with your comments, ......... the internet.

Obviously the example quoted is way over the line and should be punished to the full extent of whatever law we can use.

The problem is defining where the line goes. The US won't allow nipples to be shown on broadcast TV, The Netherlands allow just about anything after 9pm, certainly naked breasts at any time is ok, who is 'right'??

There are though, quite clear lines that shouldn't be crossed. These can be drawn up quickly and be subject to ammendment in the unlikely event that public opinoin swings behind sites depicting murder, child sex, torture, executions sadism etc.

I have seen site descriptions so vile I wonder about the human race and agree an effort has to be made, even if it subsequently fails. Too many people have crossed to many lines in the name of freedom of speech.

These vile sites depend on people being able to access them. People find and access them through search engines. You could therefore give Google, Yahoo and Ask an incrediblly large suspended fine for letting this stuff get on there in the first instance. They do a lot of it for China and thats totally down to money rather than ethics. A fine large enough to cripple the company would ensure they used all their best technology to filter this stuff before it gets on the net rather than trying to find it and remove it later.

You can't sit back and have a trendy debate about where it may or may not be drawn, sort out the serious stuff then have the debate.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Steph1012

[Jai Dee]

Speaking of crossing lines, is that you in your avatar womble?

[womble]

Speaking of crossing lines, is that you in your avatar womble?

Borat.

Pure genious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT3s_TpfTFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rVohkpMqC0

[Steph1012]

"For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law."

Surely this is the thin end of the wedge. Forwarding any email is a private affair and not subject to any laws. Taken to it's extreme sending a picture of a sexy girl to a friend abroad could land you with a prison sentence? Is this for real?

Yes it is for real, and people like you who are only concerned with being able to have a quick schoolboy perv, should't be shouting down a law designed to tackle some very serious issues.

They aren't going to be going after you lot snickering away at pictures of girls in magazines etc. They will be going after people who view and propogate the sites, espescially at the more extreme end. Do you and other paranoid "big brother" theorists, really believe that the powers that be would be interested in checking out your e-mail viewing if in only contained mild stuff like you suggest?

It may shock you to know that people have actually been filmed being killed on the internet, and if you had kids, you would not want them to come accross sites depicting this or depicting people being killed in the most grusome of accidents.

Perv in peace if you want, but don't encourage lax laws that let people literally get away with murder!

[Ijustwannateach]

Unfortunately, Steph, it's quite essential to have a discussion about exactly where lines should be drawn before they *are* invisibly drawn, *especially* in Thailand. There's nothing to guarantee the average citizen that those who will be assigned to implement the law don't have extremist conservative views, for example regarding the mailing of a message with a photo of a girl in a bikini as "perving."

Would it be "ludicrous" to consider that a punishable crime in Thailand? It all depends. A few years back, to save face in prosecuting an Australian national who ran a travel agency here and was accused of producing porn (incorrectly, with never a shred of evidence produced in court), a rather tame gay ad rag called "Thai Guys" was "deemed" pornographic by a big queen of a Thai judge, after looking at the swimsuit-clad models within (no nudity or sex). Since the defendant had distributed this tame publication (whose production he had nothing to do with), he was therefore guilty of "distributing pornography" and had to pay a fine.

It would be quite easy to imagine any Thai government using a law like this to effect intrusive searches against those it had special reason to attack and penalizing them very inconsistently and with prejudice for political ends. Even if one government behaved, subsequent governments could really abuse this law without clearly written specifications.

As a recent example of a similarly corrupt policy failure, take the choice of websites blocked in Thailand during the Thaksin regime- a combination of sex-related material (to please the prudes) and material politically disliked by the Thaksin regime.

"Steven"

[Steph1012]

Unfortunately, Steph, it's quite essential to have a discussion about exactly where lines should be drawn before they *are* invisibly drawn, *especially* in Thailand. There's nothing to guarantee the average citizen that those who will be assigned to implement the law don't have extremist conservative views, for example regarding the mailing of a message with a photo of a girl in a bikini as "perving."

Would it be "ludicrous" to consider that a punishable crime in Thailand? It all depends. A few years back, to save face in prosecuting an Australian national who ran a travel agency here and was accused of producing porn (incorrectly, with never a shred of evidence produced in court), a rather tame gay ad rag called "Thai Guys" was "deemed" pornographic by a big queen of a Thai judge, after looking at the swimsuit-clad models within (no nudity or sex). Since the defendant had distributed this tame publication (whose production he had nothing to do with), he was therefore guilty of "distributing pornography" and had to pay a fine.

It would be quite easy to imagine any Thai government using a law like this to effect intrusive searches against those it had special reason to attack and penalizing them very inconsistently and with prejudice for political ends. Even if one government behaved, subsequent governments could really abuse this law without clearly written specifications.

As a recent example of a similarly corrupt policy failure, take the choice of websites blocked in Thailand during the Thaksin regime- a combination of sex-related material (to please the prudes) and material politically disliked by the Thaksin regime.

"Steven"

You make very valid points.

What I am saying though is draw the line first where it will have no serious objectors. Murder, torture, terror, all these hand held cam shots of random attacks on bystanders, drive by shootings and the likes. I see people in offices in the UK watching this <deleted>, it does exist and it affects innocent people very seriously. More so than a few prudes trying to stop a bit of tittilation.

Then have the above debate! Governments and prudes will always try to over censor the net but the nearer they get to mainstream material, the harder it gets to have any effect on it. For one, there are millions of mainstream porn sites and that is never going to be tackled by anybody. Many people will contest unfair censorship and bring it to mainstream media attention.

Let that take its course, but don't wait to act on the really serious matters.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Steph1012

[cclub75]

The next step will be to clearly define what the mean my pornographic.........

Right. They're working very hard since a few month already to define the word "nominee"...

So you can expect that the profound concept of "pornography" should take at least 1 year to be properly defined.

Anyway, we can congratulate the National Legislative Assembly for its swift and decisive action on a very important matter.

At that point, I would like to summarize the work of the new thai authorities since 19/09 :

-booze and booze advertising

-coyotees

-computer crimes including pornographic contents

-and at the end of the list, several dozen committees, panels, sub committees, councils, boards, organizations and commissions, all dedicated to investigate and reveal the wrong doing of previous government led by Mister Thaksin.

It's a great achievement.

[Robski]

[ Do you and other paranoid "big brother" theorists, really believe that the powers that be would be interested in checking out your e-mail viewing if in only contained mild stuff like you suggest?

[astral]

It may shock you to know that people have actually been filmed being killed on the internet, and if you had kids, you would not want them to come accross sites depicting this or depicting people being killed in the most grusome of accidents.

I agree it would be shocking, but is it pornography??????????

Not in my book.

[ColPyat]

At that point, I would like to summarize the work of the new thai authorities since 19/09 :

-booze and booze advertising

-coyotees

-computer crimes including pornographic contents

-and at the end of the list, several dozen committees, panels, sub committees, councils, boards, organizations and commissions, all dedicated to investigate and reveal the wrong doing of previous government led by Mister Thaksin.

It's a great achievement.

You have forgotten several other very important results.

Such as passing laws to stiffen visa regulations, getting rid of rice subsidies which result in those filthy rich farmers getting paid less for their produce, expressing deep concern for flood victims and promising them the very generous compensation of 200 (400?) baht per Rai as opposed to the about 7000 per Rai they would have made if Bangkok would not have been protected by diverting the floodwater to their land.

Don't forget the revolutionary new national economic plan of "sufficiency economy", repeated ad absurdum every time you switch on the radio or TV news. This plan is so great that there even is no need to explain what it actually means.

[ColPyat]

And here we are back now again to lifting the martial law "within days", only 3 days after postponing a decision...

Martial law 'on its way out ' within days, says Thai FM

HANOI - Thai Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram said Friday that martial law, imposed after the kingdom's bloodless September 19 coup, was "on the way out" and could be lifted within days.

"Let me talk about this month as being a possible goal to achieve," Nitya said of lifting martial law, including restrictions on freedom of speech and assembly. "I think it is a matter of days rather than weeks."

Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont arrives in the Vietnamese capital Hanoi Friday for the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit, under the shadow of martial law and the recent putsch.

"People are concerned about what is happening in Thailand," Nitya told AFP of his meetings with fellow APEC foreign ministers in Hanoi.

"They want to know where we are going and how we are going to get there and when we are going back to full restoration of democracy."

Sunday marks the two-month anniversary of the overthrow of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and countries including the United States have slammed the crackdown on civil liberties following the putsch.

Defence Minister Boonrawd Somtas said last week that martial law would likely be lifted before Surayud arrived in Hanoi, with the goal of making Thailand's allies "more comfortable".

But security officials said Thursday that they postponed the decision over fears that anti-coup protests could break out.

They told AFP that the junta was concerned about Thaksin's recent trips around Asia. Thaksin was in New York when the coup happened, and then flew to self-imposed exile in London, where he keeps a home.

Agence France-Presse

[atlastaname]

Whilst i agree 100% with the banning of anything showing killings, torture , acts of extreme violence etc , i never cease to be amazed at the rubbish written and the prudish comments regarding pornography. If you don't like it don't look.

[Siripon]

And here we are back now again to lifting the martial law "within days", only 3 days after postponing a decision...

Martial law 'on its way out ' within days, says Thai FM

HANOI - Thai Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram said Friday that martial law, imposed after the kingdom's bloodless September 19 coup, was "on the way out" and could be lifted within days.

"Let me talk about this month as being a possible goal to achieve," Nitya said of lifting martial law, including restrictions on freedom of speech and assembly. "I think it is a matter of days rather than weeks."

Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont arrives in the Vietnamese capital Hanoi Friday for the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit, under the shadow of martial law and the recent putsch.

"People are concerned about what is happening in Thailand," Nitya told AFP of his meetings with fellow APEC foreign ministers in Hanoi.

"They want to know where we are going and how we are going to get there and when we are going back to full restoration of democracy."

Sunday marks the two-month anniversary of the overthrow of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and countries including the United States have slammed the crackdown on civil liberties following the putsch.

Defence Minister Boonrawd Somtas said last week that martial law would likely be lifted before Surayud arrived in Hanoi, with the goal of making Thailand's allies "more comfortable".

But security officials said Thursday that they postponed the decision over fears that anti-coup protests could break out.

They told AFP that the junta was concerned about Thaksin's recent trips around Asia. Thaksin was in New York when the coup happened, and then flew to self-imposed exile in London, where he keeps a home.

Agence France-Presse

What does the lifting of martial law have to do with the bill on computer crimes under discussion?

I suggest the colonel sticks to the topic in hand, as he himself likes to recommend.

[Tony Clifton]

The internet changes, evolves, the laws regulating it have to follow.

Is there a hurry in lifting the martial law? Doesn't feel like martial law, in life and online, unless you are an ex-member or Thai Rak Thai for whom everything must seem like walking in heavy fog .

Thai Rak Thai's website is still online, the internet suffers way less censorship than under Thaksin, political parties can meet, critics of the coup aren't whisked away and jailed, Pojaman goes shopping and abroad as she pleases, tv news announcers don't have that "guillotine above your head" feeling , tourists are still flying in. What's the rush?

Edited November 17, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[baabaabobo]

"For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law."

Surely this is the thin end of the wedge. Forwarding any email is a private affair and not subject to any laws. Taken to it's extreme sending a picture of a sexy girl to a friend abroad could land you with a prison sentence? Is this for real?

Yes it is for real, and people like you who are only concerned with being able to have a quick schoolboy perv, should't be shouting down a law designed to tackle some very serious issues.

They aren't going to be going after you lot snickering away at pictures of girls in magazines etc. They will be going after people who view and propogate the sites, espescially at the more extreme end. Do you and other paranoid "big brother" theorists, really believe that the powers that be would be interested in checking out your e-mail viewing if in only contained mild stuff like you suggest?

It may shock you to know that people have actually been filmed being killed on the internet, and if you had kids, you would not want them to come accross sites depicting this or depicting people being killed in the most grusome of accidents.

Perv in peace if you want, but don't encourage lax laws that let people literally get away with murder!

Where do you get off calling me a perv on a public forum?

I said that if forwarding a private e-mail (that contains an attachment that may be considered pornographic) could land someone in jail for three years then this is the thin end of the wedge.

I have lived under repressive regimes before and I kid you not this kind of bill passed by a non-elected junta should cause concern. I'm all for clamping down on real filth but when you start censoring people's e-mails then yes the big brother scenario is not far away. I think this new government has other more important issues to deal with than this.

And as for your "people like you" remarks....... get a life!

[Steph1012]

"For example, someone forwarding a pornographic email could be sentenced to up to three years in jail and fined up to 10,000 baht if found guilty under the new law."

Surely this is the thin end of the wedge. Forwarding any email is a private affair and not subject to any laws. Taken to it's extreme sending a picture of a sexy girl to a friend abroad could land you with a prison sentence? Is this for real?

Yes it is for real, and people like you who are only concerned with being able to have a quick schoolboy perv, should't be shouting down a law designed to tackle some very serious issues.

They aren't going to be going after you lot snickering away at pictures of girls in magazines etc. They will be going after people who view and propogate the sites, espescially at the more extreme end. Do you and other paranoid "big brother" theorists, really believe that the powers that be would be interested in checking out your e-mail viewing if in only contained mild stuff like you suggest?

It may shock you to know that people have actually been filmed being killed on the internet, and if you had kids, you would not want them to come accross sites depicting this or depicting people being killed in the most grusome of accidents.

Perv in peace if you want, but don't encourage lax laws that let people literally get away with murder!

Where do you get off calling me a perv on a public forum?

I said that if forwarding a private e-mail (that contains an attachment that may be considered pornographic) could land someone in jail for three years then this is the thin end of the wedge.

I have lived under repressive regimes before and I kid you not this kind of bill passed by a non-elected junta should cause concern. I'm all for clamping down on real filth but when you start censoring people's e-mails then yes the big brother scenario is not far away. I think this new government has other more important issues to deal with than this.

And as for your "people like you" remarks....... get a life!

Its all may if and what if isn't it with you.

You are suggesting that nothing should be done as somebody like you may just send something that may be considered pornographic.

My thrust was that they should concentrate on the real problem sites as they need to be tackled and leave the majority of sites alone.

Can't just leave all this <deleted> out there can they?