Shots fired at Dallas protest over fatal police shootings

[alanrchase]

OMGIminPattaya, on 09 Jul 2016 - 03:05, said:

It seems now there was only one shooter, an army reserve veteran, who had issues with the police, especially white ones. (So much for all the police triangulation theories and multiple shooters targeting them nonsense...bunch of tossers).

It's also now clear that the police murdered this shooter by blowing him up with their explosive robot toy. The police have allot to answer for another killing of a black American as he was clearly not an iminent threat to anyone at the time he was killed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dare anyone to protest that particular police killing.

Attitudes like this is what has made the police feel they have carte blanche to carry out their extra-judicial killings. Where do the police get off thinking it's ok to blow-up a suspect when he's been cornered and not an immediate threat. They obviously took it upon themselves to be judge and jury and administer their own justice on someone who may have killed some of their own.

I hope they were able to salvage the robot and put it back into service.

If not, it should be scrapped or cannibalized with full honors.

It sure beats losing a K-9 or anyone else to the assassin, who was apparently suicidal by his very acts.

Yes, the robot was very brave, as was the robot's controller. I expect both to get the highest awards ("piece of tin" ) that your country can give. Do your medals come with dicksplash and bar like mine?

I don't know, offhand. Tell you what!

Why don't you call the Dallas PD and ask them? - US 1-877-373-Tips

I'd wait a while, though. They are probably not in mood for crank calls these days.

No credit on my phone. What is your point?

[alanrchase]

I had read elsewhere he used an SKS which is 7.62X39 or an AR-15. Not the most powerful, same round as AK 47 and not very accurate, in either weapon. It's not the cartridge, it is the weapon. MOA anywhere from 2 to 4 inches at 100 meters. The one I brought back from VN was the same. I "hogged" most of the soft wood and fiberglass bedded it. Brought the MOA down to 1 inch, not a sniper's weapon but ok for battle and killing coyotes. So now I don't know what was used. .........Unfortunately this has been brewing for some time with the continued murder of black people by militarized white cops. Makes me ashamed to have been a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer. And so it starts, murder begets murder. It won't solve the problem. ............... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/opinion/sunday/what-white-america-fails-to-see.html

I believe the poularity of the AR15 is due to its reasonable price and options for customisation. As standard it is a crap gun. Spend a bit of money and transform it into a decent gun. Apparently you can customise it all the way up to 50 calibre.

[SABloke]

I just feel America feels that whites have monopoly on racism. What happened here today will be called what? Justice?

The root cause of this is the police gunning down black people.

Americans demand the right to carry a gun but when a black American carries a gun it is justification for the police to shoot him dead - dispite the fact he's not holding the gun and its still in his pocket.

Does anybody have any stats about how many non-threatening white people have been gunned down by police (I read somewhere that it's actually a higher number)

[alanrchase]

I just feel America feels that whites have monopoly on racism. What happened here today will be called what? Justice?

The root cause of this is the police gunning down black people.

Americans demand the right to carry a gun but when a black American carries a gun it is justification for the police to shoot him dead - dispite the fact he's not holding the gun and its still in his pocket.

Does anybody have any stats about how many non-threatening white people have been gunned down by police (I read somewhere that it's actually a higher number)

If true does it make everything alright? Not racist because we actually kill more whites? Are you not Americans? Seems not, attach a different land before America. Irish, Italian, Russian etc.

[Rancid]

Tragic events like this are often used by governments to increase their security powers and strip citizens of their rights claiming the need to protect them.

Not being American, I can't know what life is like over there. Purely though from observation from afar it seems a lot of the black crime is drug related in one way or another? Their percentage of the prison population is very high.

If so would not ending the completely unsuccessful "war on drugs" that just leads to violence and corruption then help change the paradigm?

What would happen in communities if there was no one profiting from drugs, those that want them just buy them from a government store cheaply including tax. Did drugs, turf wars etc using powerful weapons actually lead to the police militarization in response? How much of police time is taken up chasing drug related problems? Just a thought that getting to the root of the problem is always a better alternative than band aid fixes.

[Jingthing]

The Dallas police chief is very, very impressive. Their mayor on the other hand, seems like he comes out of central casting for stereotypical Texan characters. It's kind of odd this happened in Dallas which apparently doesn't have serious police brutality issues like so many other U.S. cities.

I hope this doesn't spark some kind of race war. I doubt it will, but if things aren't handled well, it could.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Jingthing

[mommysboy]

It's this unhealthy fixation with guns that seems to be the big problem.

I visited USA a couple of times. Obviously it's such a big country you can't generalise, but I did notice that where I did go, even in Virginia, there seemed to be disturbances. Sirens blaring far too often for my liking. I just chose not to go again.

Edited July 9, 2016 by mommysboy

[alanrchase]

Tragic events like this are often used by governments to increase their security powers and strip citizens of their rights claiming the need to protect them.

Not being American, I can't know what life is like over there. Purely though from observation from afar it seems a lot of the black crime is drug related in one way or another? Their percentage of the prison population is very high.

If so would not ending the completely unsuccessful "war on drugs" that just leads to violence and corruption then help change the paradigm?

What would happen in communities if there was no one profiting from drugs, those that want them just buy them from a government store cheaply including tax. Did drugs, turf wars etc using powerful weapons actually lead to the police militarization in response? How much of police time is taken up chasing drug related problems? Just a thought that getting to the root of the problem is always a better alternative than band aid fixes.

I have only been to the USA once. No fear, no problem. The taxi driver did tell me which areas to avoid. I asked why and he waffled a bit. The police seem to be a bit over zealous there, not my country. Have no need to go visit again, would choose not to. Not a reflection on violence there, just not interested.

[Galactus]

The poeple doing these shootings were clearly racist and singled out white cops. It's a shame when you have a Prsident who is so limited by his own prejudices and insecurities and cannot call a black man a racist. Racism goes both ways. If it is to be eliminated it must be confronted. Obama really is pathetic in many ways.

Oh really? Goes both ways?

So it was coloured people enslaved and ku klux klanned and pushed with no equality and discriminated whitees for centuries you say?

It is whitees need to eliminate racism before coloured people.

I think 'whitees' generally have; sadly some black people won't let it go and find it convenient to play the racism card. Anyway, afraid you've lost the argument with your comments, which are typical and not helping. This could go from bad to worse.

Generally have?

I believe you lost the arguement.

some trigger happy hate filled cops murdered some coloured people and that resulted on killing of policemen.

On top, you have to accept the fact that alleged racism going on in US for centuries. That helps if you and some accepts that fact instead of saying a poor 'we whitees let racism go' or 'they play the racism card' they play it bc there is racism!

[MaxYakov]

I don't know, offhand. Tell you what!

Why don't you call the Dallas PD and ask them? - US 1-877-373-Tips

I'd wait a while, though. They are probably not in mood for crank calls these days.

No credit on my phone. What is your point?

Just wanted to see if you could handle the excessively-nested quote blocks. I guess not.

Edited July 9, 2016 by MaxYakov

[alanrchase]

I don't know, offhand. Tell you what!

Why don't you call the Dallas PD and ask them? - US 1-877-373-Tips

I'd wait a while, though. They are probably not in mood for crank calls these days.

No credit on my phone. What is your point?

Just wanted to see if you could handle the excessively-nested quote blocks. I guess not.

Execessively nested? Well done. A+.

[morrobay]

I had read elsewhere he used an SKS which is 7.62X39 or an AR-15. Not the most powerful, same round as AK 47 and not very accurate, in either weapon. It's not the cartridge, it is the weapon. MOA anywhere from 2 to 4 inches at 100 meters. The one I brought back from VN was the same. I "hogged" most of the soft wood and fiberglass bedded it. Brought the MOA down to 1 inch, not a sniper's weapon but ok for battle and killing coyotes. So now I don't know what was used. .........Unfortunately this has been brewing for some time with the continued murder of black people by militarized white cops. Makes me ashamed to have been a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer. And so it starts, murder begets murder. It won't solve the problem. ............... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/opinion/sunday/what-white-america-fails-to-see.html

I believe the poularity of the AR15 is due to its reasonable price and options for customisation. As standard it is a crap gun. Spend a bit of money and transform it into a decent gun. Apparently you can customise it all the way up to 50 calibre.

Some reports say an AR 15 and others say SKS. Its the same round: 7.63 x 39 mm. ( also used in AK 47) The less powerfull of the .30 cal rounds

To put in perspective:

7.62 x 39, AR 15 Low power

7.62 x 51, .308 and [30 30 Winchester] Medium power

7.62 x 63,.30 -06 Springfield. Hunting rifle and same round as the old M1 used in WW2. High power

[alanrchase]

I had read elsewhere he used an SKS which is 7.62X39 or an AR-15. Not the most powerful, same round as AK 47 and not very accurate, in either weapon. It's not the cartridge, it is the weapon. MOA anywhere from 2 to 4 inches at 100 meters. The one I brought back from VN was the same. I "hogged" most of the soft wood and fiberglass bedded it. Brought the MOA down to 1 inch, not a sniper's weapon but ok for battle and killing coyotes. So now I don't know what was used. .........Unfortunately this has been brewing for some time with the continued murder of black people by militarized white cops. Makes me ashamed to have been a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer. And so it starts, murder begets murder. It won't solve the problem. ............... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/opinion/sunday/what-white-america-fails-to-see.html

I believe the poularity of the AR15 is due to its reasonable price and options for customisation. As standard it is a crap gun. Spend a bit of money and transform it into a decent gun. Apparently you can customise it all the way up to 50 calibre.

Some reports say an AR 15 and others say SKS. Its the same round: 7.63 x 39 mm. ( also used in AK 47) The less powerfull of the .30 cal rounds

To put in perspective:

7.62 x 39, AR 15 Low power

7.62 x 51, .308 and [30 30 Winchester] Medium power

7.62 x 63,.30 -06 Springfield. Hunting rifle and same round as the old M1 used in WW2. High power

An awfull lot of figures in your post. Bit simple myself. The AR 15 can be modified for various uses? Up to 50 caliber. True or false?

[sgtsabai]

False. But out of the box it is like it's military cousin, a piece of crap. I refused the issue and kept my M-14 until my "Freedom Flight". In fact I was not even allowed to be at the issuing of the 16 to my platoon at the time because I had testified to a Congressional investigator in the field about the piece of crap. The AR does have variations up to .308 or 7.62X51, same round, much better rifle. Here is but one, a good friend back in the states owns one, says it is damn good, and he has an arsenal much better than I ever had. The AR-15 and military variants are 5.56. The AR-10 was original in 7.62X51. Same caliber as the M-14, arguable the best battle rifle ever. There are plenty of 50 cal. on the market and that is what is used by many of coalition forces. Barret lite 50, one hell of a weapon. .............. What ever the sniper used, he very possibly killed cops that were not racist and certainly had nothing to do with the latest murder of black people.

[sgtsabai]

Damn, missed the link, sorry. http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/go-big-or-go-home-colt-le901-16s-review/. Very easy to customize and accurize.

[SABloke]

I just feel America feels that whites have monopoly on racism. What happened here today will be called what? Justice?

The root cause of this is the police gunning down black people.

Americans demand the right to carry a gun but when a black American carries a gun it is justification for the police to shoot him dead - dispite the fact he's not holding the gun and its still in his pocket.

Does anybody have any stats about how many non-threatening white people have been gunned down by police (I read somewhere that it's actually a higher number)

If true does it make everything alright? Not racist because we actually kill more whites? Are you not Americans? Seems not, attach a different land before America. Irish, Italian, Russian etc.

I didn't say it makes it ok. I just think tackling a false cause won't fix the problem: So if it's shown that cops are trigger happy in general then deal with that and don't make it a racial issue (unless it is one, hence my simple request for facts)

[losworld]

The poeple doing these shootings were clearly racist and singled out white cops. It's a shame when you have a Prsident who is so limited by his own prejudices and insecurities and cannot call a black man a racist. Racism goes both ways. If it is to be eliminated it must be confronted. Obama really is pathetic in many ways.

Oh really? Goes both ways?

So it was coloured people enslaved and ku klux klanned and pushed with no equality and discriminated whitees for centuries you say?

It is whitees need to eliminate racism before coloured people.

You need to study history a bit more. First the KK has always been aligned with the Democrats you likely support and they are now a very small fringe group and not representative of white America in the least bit. Secondly that was a long time ago and comparing past events with present is not accurate. Thirdly very few whites actually owned slaves and the slaves themselves were sold down the river by Tribal Chiefs in Africa. I hope we have progressed further than this in history. And fourth history unfortunately has always been one of subjugation of one group over another. Tribes in Africa fought for land and stole land as the victors and enslaved their victims and the same happened in American with the Natives so why is this now something particular to whites? To think only whites have done this is racist itself. And fifth two wrongs do not make a write.

Edited July 9, 2016 by losworld

[sgtsabai]

Jingthing, there has been a race war going on in this country since well before you or I were born, it's out in the open now. ............................

Please take into consideration the percentages, not just the total. Notice one of the highest percentages is Native America. The biggest problem is there is no real data base as police are not required to report homicides by police.

Also remember many of these were the killing of unarmed black people, suspicious deaths in jail, Sandra Bland comes to mind. These used to be covered up, they no longer can be.

Many years ago when I worked with the original Black Panthers they often said that living in a black neighborhood was like living in an occupied country, like me, many knew from Vietnam what that was. After Wounded Knee we lost many people, murdered with the complicity of the US government.

Again, murder begets murder.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/02/politics/kristoff-oreilly-police-shooting-numbers-fact-check/index.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/07/05/3794553/police-killings-2016/

[Donutz]

The shooter was a racist nutjob, you don't go shooting officers because the US police is a trigger happy and may very well have too many officers who look down upon black males or atleast fear they are more violent. With the silly gunlaws (way too liberal) officers may face russian roulette every day. But having to fear that a civilian that you stopped may be armed.. that's not right. Too many guns about, too many trigger happy cops/people, silly druglaws, too many bad neighbourhoods, the division of classes, the poor staying poor and the rich richer with disproportionally too many minority groups being poor, the f* up prison system. So many things that are badly wrong with the US. Injustice, unequality and segregation. Thinking along coloured lines rather then class. And rather then working together things only seem to get more divided. The land of oppertunity but only for those who started with a golden spoon in their mouth. Fixing things would take decades and not going ape shit screaming 'Communism!' when social reforms are suggested. By European standards Berny Sanders (D) and partiee such as the Green Party are very much moderate, but on a US politcal scale they are the left flanks. Without adressing the income gap, access to education (uni) , healthcare and so on you will be stuck in a divided nation pathetically stuck thinking in colour and racism and hate from the various groups. And things like this (trigger happy cops included) will keep on happening. I find that worrying and sad, the US could be a beautiful country and mosts if it's people are fine people (as most people on this planet are), but all that is currently being wasted. A real shame. All this not needed ti happen if they fixed the damn country that is failing in so many areas.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Donutz

[Jingthing]

The poeple doing these shootings were clearly racist and singled out white cops. It's a shame when you have a Prsident who is so limited by his own prejudices and insecurities and cannot call a black man a racist. Racism goes both ways. If it is to be eliminated it must be confronted. Obama really is pathetic in many ways.

Oh really? Goes both ways?

So it was coloured people enslaved and ku klux klanned and pushed with no equality and discriminated whitees for centuries you say?

It is whitees need to eliminate racism before coloured people.

You need to study history a bit more. First the KK has always been aligned with the Democrats you likely support and they are now a very small fringe group and not representative of white America in the least bit. Secondly that was a long time ago and comparing past events with present is not accurate. Thirdly very few whites actually owned slaves and the slaves themselves were sold down the river by Tribal Chiefs in Africa. I hope we have progressed further than this in history. And fourth history unfortunately has always been one of subjugation of one group over another. Tribes in Africa fought for land and stole land as the victors and enslaved their victims and the same happened in American with the Natives so why is this now something particular to whites? To think only whites have done this is racist itself. And fifth two wrongs do not make a write.

It is true historically racist southern whites including the KKK were aligned with the democrats. HOWEVER, several DECADES ago there was a major shift in the south, the south became overwhelmingly REPUBLICAN and included racist whites and KKK types. You won't find KKK types TODAY and in anything remotely resembling the RECENT past aligned with the DEMOCRATIC party.

Suggesting modern people supporting democrats are supporting the KKK is kind of like republicans today absurdly taking any credit for probably our greatest president, the iconic ABRAHAM LINCOLN. Today's republicans have NOTHING in common with him.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Jingthing

[JHolmesJr]

Some random points that occur to me:

1. The irony that this is happening during a black presidents term is mind boggling.

2. US cops are completely racist….if the idea is to defend themselves and prevent a black man from drawing a gun, shoot him in the arm or leg for chrissakes….arent they taught how to aim?

3. The media are shameless….saw that pasty face Chris Cuomo from CNN effectively interrogating that poor fiancee of the killed man…."tell me what happened before you started filming?"….is there any need to do this when she is clearly distraught….investigators are gonna ask her that anyway.

Edited July 9, 2016 by JHolmesJr

[AZBill]

I seriously do not know what is happening to my country. Such hatred and division being caused by rhetoric of our corrupt politicians and media.

[Kiwiken]

Some random points that occur to me:

1. The irony that this is happening during a black presidents term is mind boggling.

2. US cops are completely racist….if the idea is to defend themselves and prevent a black man from drawing a gun, shoot him in the arm or leg for chrissakes….arent they taught how to aim?

3. The media are shameless….saw that pasty face Chris Cuomo from CNN effectively interrogating that poor fiancee of the killed man…."tell me what happened before you started filming?"….is there any need to do this when she is clearly distraught….investigators are gonna ask her that anyway.

1/. Random Acts of violence happen at any time

2/. So all US cops are Racist by your view. This must include the Black and Asian and other ethnicity Cops too. A sweeping and unprovable statement

3/. That News reporting is insensitive , intrusive and sensationalized is not disputed. At the end of the day they all want the ratings - it is about money

[AZBill]

I hate to say it but Rome is beginning it's great fall. We have learned nothing over 240 years. If we have proven anything it's that humans are not responsible, tolerant or evolved enough to handle too much freedom and that diversity, while great in principle, is the great divider amongst such an immature species. Perhaps the Thais know something we don't and it's the reason they have survived as a country so long.

[Donutz]

Some random points that occur to me:

1. The irony that this is happening during a black presidents term is mind boggling.

Obama is not black, he's half white half black. I still can't get my head around it and the "one drop" rule. It's both silly and very worrysome that there is such an focus on colour. Sure it's nice to have diversity so after enless presidents with very simular background (white, male, family generally doing pretty well, good education etc) it makes complete sense that a change from that is a nice bonus. But except for the few who some how expected miracles, it's nothing more than that. Just as Hillary in the white house won't really change much for females or people in general.

I do think though that a truely non-white, especially black, president would not have happend and is unlikely to occur in the near future. The US seems too obsessed with colour, too many racists about (of various colours). If you have a country with no-go areas where people of race X can't go because the people there are all race Y and hostile to X, you know you got yourselves a messed up country.

2. US cops are completely racist.if the idea is to defend themselves and prevent a black man from drawing a gun, shoot him in the arm or leg for chrissakes.arent they taught how to aim?

Aren't US cops trained to incapacitate 'threats' with deadly force be shooting at the torso? Rather then trying to incapacitate by going for the limbs (harder to hit, less likely to have a result if the threat is actually intended on cauding you or others harm etc), doubt that there are special instructions based on skin colour. They will shoot you in the torso if they think you are armed and dangerous no matter what tone your skin has. Having sad that, US cops seem too trigger happy. In there defense: they are much more likely to encounter an armed civilian than in most other (western) nations and they do want to go home at the end of their shifts. That the police force does not seem to be a good representatation of society (race, class, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on) works heavily against them, you don't want such poor representation. Not sure about how much more racists the police has on the force then the amount out there in society as a whole. I can't tell if those two cops who killer that CD salesman earlier this week are racists or too trigger happy after hearing 'gun!' . They are f* up though with there BS excuses about body cam falling of and failing to record anything. No doubt they handled the situation extremely poorly if not being outright negligent. Same with the guy who got shot after saying he had a gun (why carry a gun when you go out, especially when you are with your family?). That cop seems to have been in complete fear. You'd expect him NOT to get all worked up if a civilian says he has a gun, a civy who intends to harm you will surely not inform you about a gun. A civy with good intentions may tell you about being armed so that you don't go apeshit if you spot a gun. I don't understand why the guy brought a gun, i understand why he informed the cop, i don't understand why the cop shot (are they not trained how to deal with this? Especially if a law abiding civy may not keep the hands on the steering wheel -a very American thing, never heard European cops telling people to sit tight with hands on the wheel, i blame liberal gun laws/access) or why he did not call for an ambulance but kept pointing his gun while the poor guy was bleading out and the cop shitting his pants. Edited July 9, 2016 by Donutz

[alanrchase]

False. But out of the box it is like it's military cousin, a piece of crap. I refused the issue and kept my M-14 until my "Freedom Flight". In fact I was not even allowed to be at the issuing of the 16 to my platoon at the time because I had testified to a Congressional investigator in the field about the piece of crap. The AR does have variations up to .308 or 7.62X51, same round, much better rifle. Here is but one, a good friend back in the states owns one, says it is damn good, and he has an arsenal much better than I ever had. The AR-15 and military variants are 5.56. The AR-10 was original in 7.62X51. Same caliber as the M-14, arguable the best battle rifle ever. There are plenty of 50 cal. on the market and that is what is used by many of coalition forces. Barret lite 50, one hell of a weapon. .............. What ever the sniper used, he very possibly killed cops that were not racist and certainly had nothing to do with the latest murder of black people.

Crap. The internet lies.

[Jingthing]

I seriously do not know what is happening to my country. Such hatred and division being caused by rhetoric of our corrupt politicians and media.

Like this is anything new. Remember the riots in the 60s? Washington D.C. under martial law.

[JHolmesJr]

new videos and evidence collected off the fiancees facebook page show a woman who was perhaps not the best mother...smoking weed in front of her little girl in an enclosed space etc...now im wondering if shes telling the entire truth

[Kiwiken]

new videos and evidence collected off the fiancees facebook page show a woman who was perhaps not the best mother...smoking weed in front of her little girl in an enclosed space etc...now im wondering if shes telling the entire truth

Latest reports on this incident say the Police officer is saying the Guy was holding a gun. So when the truth comes out. And I hope it is the truth. Then let the recriminations begin where they deserve to be. We only have fragments of a story. The whole picture could be something quite different

[alanrchase]

new videos and evidence collected off the fiancees facebook page show a woman who was perhaps not the best mother...smoking weed in front of her little girl in an enclosed space etc...now im wondering if shes telling the entire truth

Did she not hand the spliff round? Selfish b.