visa problems for my girlfriend

[mike1983]

my girlfriend wants to come and visit me in the uk for 6 months but has had 2 applications already refused because they don't believe she will go back, she is a thai national and it is proving very hard to prove she will go back, of coarse she will have no job to return to as no one would give 6 months leave, but she does own land and a motorbike in thailand, but that doesn't seam to be sufficient proof to return. we plan on marriage in future but want to do everything right, by that I mean she comes for 6 months meets my family and friends and learn more about the uk, then she will return to thailand then we plan to apply for a fiance visa for when we plan to marry, then she will return to thailand again and then we would apply for a settlement visa, as all this is the correct way to do things but it's proving difficult to prove her return. that is our new plan as she has now quit her job.the main problem is she planned to come to the uk in may as she could have 7 days off work and was using her brother as a gaurentee, she was going to stay on London and not see me as I could get time off work so she didn't mention me in that application, however since that was failed she was able to a month off work in July and I was also able to get time off so we planned that visa as me being the sponsor and her coming stay with me and visit London together, now on the refused application they want to know why I was part of the 1st visa form but now I am on the 2nd one.

any help or advice will be greatly apprieciated

[rasg]

That is a difficult one. It would be very handy when you post next if you could paragraph it. It's very difficult to read.

Asking for six months was too long imho. The changing of sponsors, not a good idea. What sort of proof of relationship did you provide. How long have you been together? Why did you change sponsors in the first place?

Really useful if you could post the two refusal notices.

[mike1983]

the first one was refused as she has previously been to the uk before as her brother as a sponsor to visit her boyfriend at the time 6 years ago, however once in the uk she stayed for 5 months as her boyfriend sponsored the rest of her stay, she returned within 6 months so didn't think it would be a problem, there was also problems with translation on bank statementstatement for that one.

the second refusal is as follows

you state you are applying to visit your boyfriend for one month. I note that in support of you application you have submitted a copy of his passport a letter of support from your sponsor and copies of his funds however I also need to consider your current circumstances in thailand as part of an overall assessment of your application and intentions in the uk

I am aware that you was recently refused a visa in the second category however whilst every application is assessed on its ownwrits any previous application will be taken into consideration as an overall assessment of your circumstances and your intentions in the uk

on your previous application the entry officer raised concerns about your employment I note that you have submitted a letter from your employer but this does not state you have been given leave for one month to visit the uk I also note that you have not submitted evidence that your earn your stated income the above all raise doubts about your personal circstances in thailand.

on your previous application you stated your brother will fund this trip and the eco raised concerns that there was no evidance of his funds I note you have not chosen to address this issue in this application and now state your sponsor will pay for this trip I also not that you did not mention your boyfriend on your previous application. you state you had no intention to meet him during this visit and intended to to stay in a hotel but I note his letter of support states you became boyfriend and girlfriend during his visit in december 2015 and this raises doubts about your intentions in the uk.

in support of your application you have provided a bank staements with a closing balance of xxxxx I note that the statemental includes a credit of 50000tbh based on the documents you have submitted the source of these funds is not clear and I am not therefore satisfied that the bank statement accurately reflects your current financial circumstances and that the funds shown are genuinely available to you for your exclusive use

given the above I am not satisfied you are a genuine visitor and you on rent to leave the uk at the end of your visit your application is refused under paragraph v4.2 a and c of appendix v.

she didn't intent to visit me on the first application as she could only get 7 days off work in may and knew that I couldn't have time off to see her, so she didn't mention me however I was able to get time of from July onwards and she was able to get a futher month off work that is why I would of sponsored that trip. we have been together since December where I spent a solid month with her and since my return have kept in daily contact via text and fb video calls, i have booked flights to meet her again in december this year and spend another month with her and plan to try for a visa for her again, the money deposited in her account was by her brother as her gives her support sometimes.

[mike1983]

sorry I didn't paragraph again in new to this

[mike1983]

I obviously don't to have her get in trouble for deception as that would lead to a ban, so going to write a statement on her behalf if that is allowed and not use an agency, it would go along the lines of

i didnt mention my boyfriend on my first application as I didn't intend to meet him as I new he couldn't get time off work at the same time as I could however since in the time of my previous application I was able to get leave from work for a futher month in July and at that time I knew my boyfriend could also get time off work and that is why he was mentioned on my second application and he was going to sponsor my visit,

the money deposited into my account was put there by my brother as he gives me money to help me sometimes. (I will get her brother to do a statement to confirm this)

I have since stopped working for my previous company as I would like to visit you boyfriend in the uk for uk to 6 month as he is going to sponsor me for this period

I would like to go for 6 month to get a idea of his life in the uk and visit places with him on his days off work I would also like to meet his daughter who I speak with on Skype every week and also other members of his family and friends as we plan to eventually live together as a married couple,

also when in the uk we plan on going to london together as this is somewhere I have always wanted to visit and that is where I planned to go fory 7 day visa that was refused.

I will leave the uk at the end of the visa and continue to remain in daily contact with my boyfriend when I return to thailand, i also have land in thailand and a motorbike, I also plan to find a new job when I return.

I fully understand the rules for the visit visa and would not be working or claiming any money whilst I am holiday as my boyfriend will be supporting me and my needs. also I would not like to ruin the chance of futher visa application as this would not be good for my plans of marriage to him.

something along those lines thinking would cover the queries they may have

what are your thoughts on that?

[rasg]

Is this letter from you as her sponsor or a letter from her? A few spelling mistakes and I think it needs to be worded a lot better. You don't need a visa agent and I have no doubt that others on here will help.

You will also need proof of relationship. Very good proof of relationship. Flight tickets together. Hotel bookings together. Photos. Anything that shows you together. With her family. Maybe skype logs, whatsapp logs. Etc etc.

Edited July 9, 2016 by rasg

[mike1983]

yeah it is a letter I was going to do on her behalf, the spelling is bad because I'm typing on my phone, it's only a brief example of what I plan to write on her behalf but thought I would post it to get some judgment, she used an agent on the previous 2 application against my wishes and they have caused the problems, when I return in december I am going to do all the application with her if this is aloud?

[Tony M]

It's often difficult to overcome reasons for refusal. In this case there is the possibility of deception in the ECO's mind. In addition to the fact that the applicant didn't mention seeing you while she was in the UK, there is a specific question on the application form which asks the applicant if he/she has any (other) friends or family in the UK. If your girlfriend answered "no" to that questions, then the obvious question in the ECO's mind is why. Okay, you may not have been able to meet up during her 7 days in the UK, but there is no reason why she should not have mentioned your existence. The question begs only a yes or no answer on the form (even though she would have been asked to provide details in a sub-menu). Answering "no" would obviously now lead the ECO to doubt her credibility. If she answered "yes" to the question, then it might be possible to argue that there never was any attempt at deception ( whether there was or not). It's not easy to retrieve the situation now.

[rasg]

No reason why you can't do almost all of it. I was editing my previous post!

[mike1983]

yes I sent all the relative information in my sponsorship ie call records pictures my house details bank details payslips everything I could given the short time we have known each other even my flight details for my flight coming up in december this year.

as regards to deception that is why I think it important that I help her with some kind of letter to explain the problems caused by the mistakes in the previous application.

as regarda to the friends or family question, the embassy called her to ask many questions about me and our relationship which she answered correct as there is nothing to hide, they also asked what she said no to knowing friends or family in the uk to which she replied simply it's because it said friends or family and nothing about boyfriend, I assume that they will put that down to a simple mistake as on the refusal letter it wasn't brought up and nor was anything regarding deception.

[mike1983]

futher more to writing a statement on my girlfriends behalf can someone please advise if I would then have to get her to write the statement in Thai script and sign it and then get a professional translator to revert it back to English with official stamps? or would the statement I create and print off for her be sufficient?

also I would like to get the visa application form for her to start going over the questions with her properly over the next few months as we plan to send in the application in dec/Jan when I will be with her. I'm unsure of the correct way to do this as the previous 2 applications were created by visa agents.

[theoldgit]

If I were in your position I would draft her letter for you, as was pointed out it could do with some redrafting to make it shorter, easier to read and to the point.

I would add something along the lines of "whilst this is my statement, my written English isn't too good so it has been dictated to and written by xxxx" she would need to be aware of the contents in case she receives another call.

I think she's going to struggle to get a visa, her motorcycle wont be taken into to account, and she would need to expand on her land, given she talks about only trying to find a job on her return, she's going to struggle to satisfy the ECO of her reasons to return.

[mike1983]

thank you for the reply, I know it's going to be difficult to get her a visa on the next attempt but hoping the statement she does clears up all the problems of the previous two failed attempts and creates a clean sheet so to speak, im finding it difficult to shorten as I think alot of explanation is needed to cover the issues. I'm aware that people have got visa whilst having no job so would just not mentioning anything regarding work be worthwhile? I'm really struggling to think of reasons to return for her even though she fully intends to. any ideas or further adevice will be most welcome.

[IMA_FARANG]

thank you for the reply, I know it's going to be difficult to get her a visa on the next attempt but hoping the statement she does clears up all the problems of the previous two failed attempts and creates a clean sheet so to speak, im finding it difficult to shorten as I think alot of explanation is needed to cover the issues. I'm aware that people have got visa whilst having no job so would just not mentioning anything regarding work be worthwhile? I'm really struggling to think of reasons to return for her even though she fully intends to. any ideas or further adevice will be most welcome.

------------------------------

What's fair for the Gose should be fair for the Gander.so let's see every Brit who plans to come to Thailand to for a 6 month visit be required to prove they plan to return to the U.k. before they are allowed to enter Thailand.

[theoldgit]

Let's not go there, please stick to the actual topic.

[mike1983]

I know you said shorten it and make it to the point but I think there's too much that needs explaining to avoid them bringing it up again if the next visa is refused, im hoping it would just set the record straight on the previous failures and start a clean sheet so to speak I've tried another statement as follows

on my first application to the uk my brother sponsored my trip for 45 days as planned.

however once in the uk my then boyfriend agreed to support me for a futher 4 months, I did not break any visa rules to fund my longer stay and returned within the dates of my 6 month visa

it was also refused because I did not show funds of my brothers salary to support him being my sponsor for my then planned trip to London for seven days, planned for may 26th as this was the only time I could have off work.

my second visa was refused because I stated that in my first application that my brother would be my sponsor for 7 days, but now my boyfriend is going to be my sponsor for a period of one month.

my boyfriend was not mentioned in my previous application because I could not plan to be with him as he could not get time off work until july and my planned visit was for may.

since that first application was refused I have since been able to have another holiday from my job from the end off July for the period of one month and knowing that my boyfriend now had holidays available from work he agreed to be my sponsor so that we could spend a month together and go to London during this period aswell as meeting his family and friends as we continue to build our relationship until his return to thailand in december

any thoughts or ideas will be apprieciated

[oxo1947]

Mike1983----that's nothing, compared with here---just ask half the guys on Thai Visa...(the whining half) ..we have to pop into the office every 3 months.....(or do it by internet) and once a year.....Yes once every single year Mike we have to renew our Visa.....dam its a tough life for a white feller here......

[mike1983]

I can imagine, my dad lives in Thailand half the year...and he moans about that.

but that really doesn't assist the problem me and my girlfriend face now, as we try to build a future together

[rasg]

You need it to be as long as it needs to be to explain the situation. I am happy to keep things short and to the point but all three of my sponsor letters have been three pages of A4 because that is how long they needed to be. Each visa was successful.

[rasg]

I would also suggest that you write the letter as part of your sponsor letter. How long have you been together? A seven day trip to the UK is very short with such a long flight at either end. IMHO it needs completely rewording because, to me, at least it's not that clear. Better if she doesn't write anything in Thai either, It complicates things.

Edited July 10, 2016 by rasg

[mike1983]

You need it to be as long as it needs to be to explain the situation. I am happy to keep things short and to the point but all three of my sponsor letters have been three pages of A4 because that is how long they needed to be. Each visa was successful.

[mike1983]

thanks for the reply, do you not think this will create a bigger Web to escape from? the chap on the thailanday life website is suggesting I will need a lawyer to get out of this mess but that obviously gunna cost a fortune that I don't have, and even then she could still get banned for deception I'm guessing.

it just seams impossible to be able to get out of this situation but I'm not just going to give up on my girlfriend as hard as the challenge ahead is going to be

I've got 5 months to sort this problem out as that is when I'll be seeing her again and plans to apply in that time.

[mike1983]

we started dating in december 2015, short time I know but we've commutation pretty much every hour of the day since I left and have daily video calls for sometimes hours every day.

[mike1983]

the trip to London was during her birthday so I could throw that in there i guess

[mike1983]

this was his reply.....

Hi Mike,

The biggest problem you have is that your GF has lost all trust from the UKBA. They see a clear pattern of lying and therefore do not trust that she has good intentions in the UK, and indeed that she will leave the UK once her trip has finished. The agency has really messed this up for you.

In this case, honesty is the best policy. The only hope you have is to tell them on your next application that your GF was ill-advised by the agency. You can say that you had nothing to do with it and that they directed and dealt with it for her on the promise that this was the best way to do it because her brother was the sponsor for her very first visit (before she met you). The agency should know that it doesnt matter who sponsored her first trip, because every visa application is judged on its individual merit.

But heres the thing: even if you explain everything about the agency and how everything got in a mess, etc., they may accept this, but because your GF effectively lied on her application, they may say that on those grounds they cannot issue her a visa. It is illegal to lie on a visa about your intention or status.

They are waiting for you to reapply and address the reasons for the refusal. But doing so means admitting lying, and I personally think they will just say, right, so you lied then? Well, sorry, we cant issue a visa on that basis. Regardless of whether she has land and a genuine relationship with you, they will focus on the fact that she initially lied about who her sponsor was and who she was going to see and for how long.

In my opinion, her now not having a job and wanting to come to the UK for 6 months, and given the history of the refusals, means its highly unlikely they will grant her that.

The only way I see out of this is to get the agency to write a letter admitting they ill-advised her and made a huge mistake and that the buck stops with them. With this proof, I would then hire a lawyer with experience in difficult visa cases to help you reapply. I am pretty sure that doing it alone will only result in a another refusal. You need a lawyer who knows UK visa law inside out and can help you explain the previous mistakes and find legal grounds as to why your GF should be allowed to visit the UK. Personally I would try first for a shorter period than 6 months, as the trust factor is currently very low. I would also suggest your GF gets a job in the meantime and begins receiving a regular salary, as this will go in her favour and provide a good reason in the eyes of the UKBA to return to Thailand once her visit is over.

One thing is for sure, you need professional advice and a professional to help you reapply. Use a lawyer, never one of these agencies. It seems really negative right now, but with the right lawyer this can be turned around. Keep the

[rasg]

Somebody on here in the last week charged them a £1000 for a visa and it was still rejected because the lawyer gave poor advice and things as basic as bank statements were missing from the application.

Hell will probably freeze over before a visa company will admit to making a mistake and giving false information.

What is it that has been said that means that she lied? I honestly believe that it's possible to put a decent application together that will be granted without spending an arm and a leg with a lawyer. My GF and I had only been together for 14 weeks when we applied for her first visit visa and it was approved without a problem.

To me your letter in post 5 is not that clear at all. Were you with her when she originally applied to come to the UK for the first time? If I have this right I dont understand why she would apply for a visa to come to the UK for 7 days. And applying for six months is way too long. We originally for one month and the, then GF stayed for 14 weeks, but I explained why in my next sponsor letter and a second VV for two years went through without a problem.

[mike1983]

no the visa was applied for when I was back in the uk, on the second application with me as the sponsor she did say she would be coming for only a month (in my sponsorship letter I said I would support her for upto 6 month) but like I say she only applied for a month, this visa was for travel in July.

the first rejected visa was to travel in may.

regarding the lying I'm saying that because the embassy are thinking that because I the first one it was for 7 days and sponsored by her brother.

and no mention of me.

then a month later she's applied again for July and to come for a month with me as her sponsor, I stated we have been in a relationship since December in my supporting statement.

also in the original application she stated she had no friend or family in the application, but obviously she knew me, they contacted her about this and she said it didn't say anything about boyfriends so I'm hoping they judge that as a simple mistake.

so in this latest rejection the officer wants to know why on the first one it was for 7 days and sponsored by her brother and why there was no mention of me even though I put iny statement we've been together since december, and now all of a sudden she's applied for a month and having me as her sponsor.

[Rob180]

Mike,, you don't have to prove she will go back. Realistically nobody can really prove that.... unless the person owned some significant business/land and/ or had a highly paid job in Thailand which would make it highly likely she would want to go back. What raises concerns is when people submit applications like your girlfriends where there are clear red flags the person may not go back, IE: her not telling them about you in Application 1.

Also what do you think an ECO thinks when an applicant is coming to the UK on a 14,000 mile round trip and you cannot manage to meet her? They are looking for applicants making applications on the basis of ungenuine relationships. Unfortunately you appear to have basically fuelled grounds for a refusal.

Using a lawyer will cost you a fortune. Trying to do the application yourself will be extremely problematic given the history.

You obviously used a cowboy visa agent who didn't know what he was doing. Personally I would recommend you pass all this to a Visa Agent who actually does know what he is doing and may be able to sort this mess out. Most visa agents in Thailand are not registered with any governing body, hence the industry is full of cowboys. I know of only ONE who for sure knows what he's doing and is also approved by the British Government to provide immigration advice. If you want to know who to contact send me a private message.

Getting a visa for 6 months is not actually that difficult if the application is completed correctly and provides the information needed to make it likely to be granted and does not contain 'red flags' which raise suspicion and are likely to lead to a refusal.

If the application meets these 5 points below it is likely to be granted:

1/ It is honest and accurate regarding circumstances and past immigration history.

2/ The relationship is genuine and you provide ample evidence of this.

3/ You meet the criteria for sponsoring her regarding your character, finances and accommodation.

4/ The reason for her coming is to spend time with you, as you are in a genuine relationship.

5/ You can prove you have known each other for a reasonable amount of time and have met in person. The amount of time is not specified as far as I am aware, but it's not rocket science to work out that if you have known each other 1 month it is likely to be refused and if it is 4-6 months or more it is far more likely to be approved.

Hope that helps a little.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Rob180

[mike1983]

thanks for the reply, I fully understand all the problems created by the refused applications, and why all the doubt is there now.

it's overhauling these problems that is my concern and how to go about it without digging a deeper hole.

[theoldgit]

You need it to be as long as it needs to be to explain the situation. I am happy to keep things short and to the point but all three of my sponsor letters have been three pages of A4 because that is how long they needed to be. Each visa was successful.

Yes of course a letter needs to be as long as it means to be, but keep in mind that the decision maker has a very short time to consider the application and if to issue a visa if not, if not then they also have to draft a refusal notice.

The job of the applicant is to make the job easier for them and, dare I say, almost make the decision for them.

The ECO doesn't want to read through reams of sponsorship letters, they want the facts that will enable to make a decision easily, whilst your three pages of A4 were successful in your case, I suspect the visas were issued despite the long stories rather than because of them.