Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[MissAndry]

I did not say hundreds of Brits had caught HIV here. The last time I visited an STD clinic in the uk there was a poster on the wall stating that 40% of cases were caught abroad on holiday. I am not a girl and knew the Idiot Nigel when he worked at Tesco here.

I'm surprised the number isn't much higher, seeing most British ladies don't do sex (while in the UK).

Edited July 19, 2016 by MissAndry

[thaibeachlovers]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

I disagree. If "hundreds" of British men were contracting HIV in Thailand, the nanny state would be advertising about it and warning everyone on all planes to Bkk to avoid Thai prostitutes. That they do NOT, means the number contracting it is insignificant.

I can only assume that you know people that refuse to wear condoms when engaging in risky sex. I don't, and I don't know anyone that has HIV.

Four out of millions does not a plague make.

John Holmes died of it too, but they didn't ban the porn industry.

How would a nice girl like you know about "street meat" anyway .

I did not say hundreds of Brits had caught HIV here. The last time I visited an STD clinic in the uk there was a poster on the wall stating that 40% of cases were caught abroad on holiday. I am not a girl and knew the Idiot Nigel when he worked at Tesco here.

I don't know how many UK men have HIV, but "overseas" is a broad term, and given that hundreds of thousands of young people go to Spain to shag their brains out, no doubt not using condoms ( because youth is convinced nothing bad will ever happen to them ), you will have to do better to convince me that HIV is any sort of real problem in Thailand for men using condoms.

[PaullyW]

Of course, we all know it will not disappear, regardless of how misguided this current tourism minister is. She will be gone soon enough, and for some of us that cannot happen fast enough. Her background was completely, and utterly inappropriate for the portfolio position of tourism and sports minister. She could not possibly be more out of her element. As usual, with the little man, she was not picked for her talent in the tourism area. No merit in his administration is ever considered. Her studies and experience are as follows:

Fine Arts, Wellesley College, US; degree in Architecture, Rhode Island School of Design, US. Former Assistant to Project Manager, MahBoonKrong Center Co., for the interior design of the largest shopping complex in Bangkok. Joined Toshiba Thailand Co. as Advertising Manager; successive promotions leading up to post as Chairperson. These are not qualifications to lead the country into a new era of tourism, and certainly not the proper qualification to lead the sports ministry. Just the fact that the two departments are combined shows such a dramatic lack of wisdom, vision, and clarity of mission.

For her to even hint that they are looking at high quality tourists is beyond disingenuous. At a time when they have boosted the Chinese tourism up to 35% of the nation's total, when they are one of the lowest quality tourists to be found anywhere on the planet (in terms of spending per person) she has demonstrated, and continues to demonstrate her complete incompetence, at her job. I believe this swing toward the Chinese tourists will go down in history, as one of the greatest blunders of the Thai tourism industry. They cannot be considered a substitute for western tourists, who spend far more per day, than these tours, who book hotels at perhaps 40% of the rack rate, require massive discounts in restaurants, and do not stimulate the overall economy. Her utter lack of vision when it comes to developing the market is becoming legendary.

As for her sports ministry position. What can one say? She does not have her hands full enough as it is? Or is this just a way of the government telling all the nation's athletes, you just do not matter. You are not significant for us to devote a department to you. We could not find someone with a background in sports. We found a fine arts graduate, who has a small amount of design experience. You just do not matter. Sorry. We had to combine the departments to save some money.

She went to RISD? The Rhode Island School of Design? Being a Rhode Island native I am surprised that she found her way to that little place. It is an interesting institution and I guess if one were in the North East USA and interested in architecture it is understandable.

9 out of 10 Thais who attend schools abroad (mostly fairly middle of the road schools) care not so much about the actual school itself but more so of the fact that it is a school not in Thailand. The goal of most of the kids is not education perse but rather status. They already know that their success is no way dependent upon their knowledge or skills...

[anotheruser]

Let them replace it all with shopping malls and McDonald's and Starbucks. We were discussing this awhile back, soon we will all be sharing pointers about what our favorite mall is to drink in. Thailand seems to be able to imagine little else these days. You want to improve a place like Pattaya simply clean up the garbage and fix the sewer systems if possible. Once the beach and the water gets clean enough to swim in then watch the numbers of 'regular' tourists increase.

Give it a few years and keep the revenue coming in from everybody and then if it is attracting the sort of people you want rezone an area away from the seaside where you let some of the entertainment zones exist. Happy families, happy mongers, happy merchants, cleaner ocean, no loss of revenue. Let the mongers themselves pay for the gentrification of the area.

In order to replace the revenue from the sex industry they would have to come up with a serious plan to replace it. I suppose you could just legalize gambling and call it a day. That's one way to keep the money flowing with no need to do anything that would improve the place. But if they are going to just let places like Patong and Pattaya be the toilets they are with out the hookers this will achieve nothing positive for Thailand.

Bulldoze the beer bars and anything that is like that and make it into park land. A little vision and you could literally work miracles in these places in a relatively short period of time. Basically move the sex places somewhere out of site and let them exist and use that revenue to revitalize the beach area. I think this would be a great compromise. Although we all know whatever direction they go greenery and clean water won't be on the agenda. So what is their vision when they get their wish?

Thailand can live without the sex industry as any country can but they would need a solid 20 year plan to do so and they would have to start yesterday.

[SoiBiker]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

[thaibeachlovers]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

WOW, you actually wrote something I agree with, LOL.

Actually, Pattaya WAS the place out in the sticks back in the 70s when it all started. However, it's popularity with the mongers soon brought the greedies wanting to exploit them with more expensive accomodation etc and the rest is history.

Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

[DrTuner]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

Epic idea. Since there are at least 100k bars and karaokes to be moved, I suggest moving back to the roots and designating all of Isaan the new Mongerland.

[thai3]

Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

Not to be recommended then as it is one of the most unattractive and badly planned places in the country

[anotheruser]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

WOW, you actually wrote something I agree with, LOL.

Actually, Pattaya WAS the place out in the sticks back in the 70s when it all started. However, it's popularity with the mongers soon brought the greedies wanting to exploit them with more expensive accomodation etc and the rest is history.

Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

I am also shocked to see any agreement on this subject. However why not do it that way? I guess current day Angeles city is somewhat like this. Nobody goes up there unless you really want to see that scene. During the relocation would give a chance to register and count the numbers properly and make it easier to tax. The tax could theoretically be used to improve the seaside and the places they have vacated. It could also be possible to make sure there are no under age girls or guys if that's what they want to do.

[thaibeachlovers]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

WOW, you actually wrote something I agree with, LOL.

Actually, Pattaya WAS the place out in the sticks back in the 70s when it all started. However, it's popularity with the mongers soon brought the greedies wanting to exploit them with more expensive accomodation etc and the rest is history.

Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

I am also shocked to see any agreement on this subject. However why not do it that way? I guess current day Angeles city is somewhat like this. Nobody goes up there unless you really want to see that scene. During the relocation would give a chance to register and count the numbers properly and make it easier to tax. The tax could theoretically be used to improve the seaside and the places they have vacated. It could also be possible to make sure there are no under age girls or guys if that's what they want to do.

Tax? Thou jest.

The girls will never pay tax as it's all off the books except for the miniscule wage they earn in the bar, and the bars probably operate at a loss according to the books.

Pattaya would become just another crappy concrete town with golf courses and ferries to the islands. The nightlife is what makes Pattaya popular.

[Lupatria]

they even pixelate out Rubens type paintings in a film, as well as the slightest hint of cleavage, guns knives, drinks and cigs on TV? There is a real move against the sex industry now, and about time.

Yeah, what's the need to pixelate guns while every Tom, Dick, and Harry has one under his motorbike seat, a knife in his jacket while driving drunk through the sois?

[Nasrullah]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

if you really want to talk about HIV problems,then focus on Vietnam.....

[anotheruser]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

WOW, you actually wrote something I agree with, LOL.

Actually, Pattaya WAS the place out in the sticks back in the 70s when it all started. However, it's popularity with the mongers soon brought the greedies wanting to exploit them with more expensive accomodation etc and the rest is history.

Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

I am also shocked to see any agreement on this subject. However why not do it that way? I guess current day Angeles city is somewhat like this. Nobody goes up there unless you really want to see that scene. During the relocation would give a chance to register and count the numbers properly and make it easier to tax. The tax could theoretically be used to improve the seaside and the places they have vacated. It could also be possible to make sure there are no under age girls or guys if that's what they want to do.

Tax? Thou jest.

The girls will never pay tax as it's all off the books except for the miniscule wage they earn in the bar, and the bars probably operate at a loss according to the books.

Pattaya would become just another crappy concrete town with golf courses and ferries to the islands. The nightlife is what makes Pattaya popular.

Obviously my post was a tad bit idealistic and not likely to ever happen. It still isn't a bad idea though. As one poster said Pattaya used to be the place out in the sticks and then grew into what it is now. So in theory if you took some rice fields a short drive out of Pattaya and made the red light zone there you would produce some high value real estate out of pretty much thin air.

LOL At the guy comparing decent zoning laws to the racism that is apartheid. How delusional do you have to be to come up with such a comment?

[slippery snake]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

then, my self-righteous friend, don't go there!

reminds me of the anti-abortion zealots in the USA where I saw one pro-protester (a woman) with a placard that read

"don't believe in abortion? FINE don't have one"

you need to think about adopting this yourself and live and let live

Ok, how about a deal? Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy. But in return, sex tourists stop shopping for dildos and Viagra on the main drag of Sukhumvit, and stop parading around Terminal 21 with a hooker on their arm?

Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy

You have come up with many erroneous comments on threads like this, but this one is a classic .

'Normal folk' don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy ???? So what do you think is normal folk ? please explain ?

someone that is married with 3 kids ?

someone that is God fearing and goes to church every week ?

someone that does not like sex or anyone that does ?

I consider myself normal, I was married for 27 years and had 3 kids, worked hard for a good life for my family and did quite well over 30 years,

and never chased other woman, didn't drink much and don't smoke or do drugs.

Do you consider me normal ?

Then my wife ran off very suddenly, after that I later found out she had been screwing more guys, for years, than most of these bar girls do ?

I had a hard time dealing with all that, now I live here and don't want to be married again in a hurry. I still enjoy sex with a nice bar girl that I pay for,

so now have I become 'not normal' ?

[anotheruser]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

I always get a laugh at that one..........Pattaya a beach resort?.....One who seeks a beach resort would normally like to swim in the water

Pattaya a bar resort would be a better description......

Oops sorry i forgot.........you've never been to pattaya!

But what if it was redone and you could swim in the water? I would trade the old Pattaya for a place close to Bangkok you could swim. As I was saying earlier you could set up beer bar shacks and get some girls/guys just about anywhere you wanted to. Why not claim back some prime real estate? It would take anybody with half a brain about a day to set up a beer bar.

Pattaya would be obviously a long term goal to do this, Patong Beach would be much easier.

Anyway these are just thoughts and ideas it isn't like anybody at the top is reading this and wondering what the farang would do.

Ideally you could also eliminate the police shake downs in the new place. So the mongers get a better experience, you could even build the beer bars so there are trees and a more pleasant environment. Will this happen no it won't but there is really no need to get worked up about some ideas that are never going to come into fruition anyway. If you don't like any of my ideas so be it, but you aren't going to like the reality of the situation which is coming any better.

[SoiBiker]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

WOW, you actually wrote something I agree with, LOL.

Actually, Pattaya WAS the place out in the sticks back in the 70s when it all started. However, it's popularity with the mongers soon brought the greedies wanting to exploit them with more expensive accomodation etc and the rest is history.
Pattaya as we know it today was built on the backs of girls on their backs.

I am also shocked to see any agreement on this subject. However why not do it that way? I guess current day Angeles city is somewhat like this. Nobody goes up there unless you really want to see that scene. During the relocation would give a chance to register and count the numbers properly and make it easier to tax. The tax could theoretically be used to improve the seaside and the places they have vacated. It could also be possible to make sure there are no under age girls or guys if that's what they want to do.

Tax? Thou jest.
The girls will never pay tax as it's all off the books except for the miniscule wage they earn in the bar, and the bars probably operate at a loss according to the books.

Pattaya would become just another crappy concrete town with golf courses and ferries to the islands. The nightlife is what makes Pattaya popular.

Obviously my post was a tad bit idealistic and not likely to ever happen. It still isn't a bad idea though. As one poster said Pattaya used to be the place out in the sticks and then grew into what it is now. So in theory if you took some rice fields a short drive out of Pattaya and made the red light zone there you would produce some high value real estate out of pretty much thin air.

LOL At the guy comparing decent zoning laws to the racism that is apartheid. How delusional do you have to be to come up with such a comment?

He just like to take a shot at me for some reason.

Sure, it would develop as you say, but at least it wouldn't be a blight on what could otherwise be a major tourist selling point - a decent beach resort close to Bangkok.

[anotheruser]

That was precisely my point. We agree.

[Nasrullah]

I think relocation is an interesting idea. It seems like most sex tourists are only interested in girls and beer, so there's no need for them to be at a beach resort or on prime downtown Bangkok real estate. Set up a bar zone for them out in the sticks somewhere where nobody else need go, and let them get on with it.

I always get a laugh at that one..........Pattaya a beach resort?.....One who seeks a beach resort would normally like to swim in the water

Pattaya a bar resort would be a better description......

Oops sorry i forgot.........you've never been to pattaya!

But what if it was redone and you could swim in the water? I would trade the old Pattaya for a place close to Bangkok you could swim. As I was saying earlier you could set up beer bar shacks and get some girls/guys just about anywhere you wanted to. Why not claim back some prime real estate? It would take anybody with half a brain about a day to set up a beer bar.

Pattaya would be obviously a long term goal to do this, Patong Beach would be much easier.

Anyway these are just thoughts and ideas it isn't like anybody at the top is reading this and wondering what the farang would do.

Ideally you could also eliminate the police shake downs in the new place. So the mongers get a better experience, you could even build the beer bars so there are trees and a more pleasant environment. Will this happen no it won't but there is really no need to get worked up about some ideas that are never going to come into fruition anyway. If you don't like any of my ideas so be it, but you aren't going to like the reality of the situation which is coming any better.

Out of my control what happens in the future to Patts.......don't worry about something you can't control

but let me tell you something that will not come to fruition.....Pattaya becoming a popular family resort!

It is what it is and would require huge dollars and a massive mind-set change from the thais(which i think is near impossible)

if the place didn't have girls you wouldn't even stop for a sleep-over to your destination!!

[SoiBiker]

I'd probably have visited by now if it was a regular resort.

[anotheruser]

I also agree with you on this. The current admin doesn't have the will to do what would be needed. As I said my ideas are mere pipe dreams. If they close down the red lights with no other plan they will cause a lot of harm. the place will like much worse if everything is emptied and abandoned. Although last time I was in Jomtien I did see families and couples on vacation there. I was somewhat bemused as to why they would come here? Taking prostitution out of Pattaya is about the same as taking gambling out of Vegas. Yes people go for the shows and the food etc. but the place only survives because of one thing

[micmichd]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

I disagree. If "hundreds" of British men were contracting HIV in Thailand, the nanny state would be advertising about it and warning everyone on all planes to Bkk to avoid Thai prostitutes. That they do NOT, means the number contracting it is insignificant.

I can only assume that you know people that refuse to wear condoms when engaging in risky sex. I don't, and I don't know anyone that has HIV.

Four out of millions does not a plague make.

John Holmes died of it too, but they didn't ban the porn industry.

How would a nice girl like you know about "street meat" anyway .

I did not say hundreds of Brits had caught HIV here. The last time I visited an STD clinic in the uk there was a poster on the wall stating that 40% of cases were caught abroad on holiday. I am not a girl and knew the Idiot Nigel when he worked at Tesco here.

I don't know how many UK men have HIV, but "overseas" is a broad term, and given that hundreds of thousands of young people go to Spain to shag their brains out, no doubt not using condoms ( because youth is convinced nothing bad will ever happen to them ), you will have to do better to convince me that HIV is any sort of real problem in Thailand for men using condoms.

So, HIV is imported into UK, spread out there (because it's endemic), and then re-imported to Thailand by sex tourists? Nice to hear a European disease is imported here. Thailand for sure can live without such imports.

Of course, poor Brits, you try to screw poor bar girls on Pattaya Beach Road, and you don't have the bread then for condoms. You ruin the country by doing so, and, being delusional, you probably don't even realise what danger you are.

You probably even don't realise that you could make babies by having unprotected sex with Thai ladies. And you probably think it's fun for young mothers to feed their child while you lay down in bed, drunk like he'll, and not being aware that sex work is meant to be hourly paid work. In bars you're ready to pay more for a beer than to a nice Thai lady. Go, try that at home, Farang women might kill you. Oh, I forgot you don't have sex in your country, and hardly your women have any. So, you could simply fade away back home, and no one would care.

[Nasrullah]

I also agree with you on this. The current admin doesn't have the will to do what would be needed. As I said my ideas are mere pipe dreams. If they close down the red lights with no other plan they will cause a lot of harm. the place will like much worse if everything is emptied and abandoned. Although last time I was in Jomtien I did see families and couples on vacation there. I was somewhat bemused as to why they would come here? Taking prostitution out of Pattaya is about the same as taking gambling out of Vegas. Yes people go for the shows and the food etc. but the place only survives because of one thing

I only have two words for ya.......Ghost town!!

[SoiBiker]

I think a cleaned-up Pattaya would prove popular with tourists. I often hear people complain about the need for a long journey or a flight to go between Bangkok and the beach, and I know it puts people off Thailand if they only have limited time - if you're here for a week you don't want to lose two days traveling to the islands and back.

[anotheruser]

It would be great for us Bangkok residents as well. Pattaya has a lot of great accommodation for really reasonable prices. However I guess we are going off topic. The thread is how they are going to destroy the sex industry and they haven't made any comment about improving the beach. They will ultimately destroy Pattaya no improve it. The red zones in Bangkok don't matter that much, Bangkok will always be about the same.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'd probably have visited by now if it was a regular resort.

Pattaya and particularly Jomtien are very popular with Bangkok Thais, as the horrendous traffic on weekends and holidays shows.

It's really quite easy to avoid the sleaze.

[micmichd]

I'd probably have visited by now if it was a regular resort.

Pattaya and particularly Jomtien are very popular with Bangkok Thais, as the horrendous traffic on weekends and holidays shows.

It's really quite easy to avoid the sleaze.

Fortunately Pattaya and Jomtien are crowded by Thais from Bangkok on weekends, so you can meet some interesting people there - not only bored-out Farangs.

[DrTuner]

I'd probably have visited by now if it was a regular resort.

Pattaya and particularly Jomtien are very popular with Bangkok Thais, as the horrendous traffic on weekends and holidays shows.

It's really quite easy to avoid the sleaze.

Yeah, but unfortunately nigh impossible to avoid the BKK hordes. Shoo, shoo, keep where you are, it's horrible, sleaze, full of zombies and ladyboys ready to eat you.

EDIT: BTW the beaches are crap. Pattaya beach is a few meter of steep slope into a cesspit and Jomthien, while it actually does have sand, is dirty as well. First water you might want to swim in is in Sattahip.

Edited July 19, 2016 by DrTuner

[drgoon]

Anything that is banned goes underground, which creates demand, which empowers the local mafia / criminal element, which ups the risk of violence and crime, which makes it worse for everyone.

Common sense.

Most will freelance... it will becme the norm. How the bars make money out of it ???.. Quite a few will fall I think.

The internet and freelancing will be one of the main media for connecting.

[DrTuner]

The internet and freelancing will be one of the main media for connecting.

Internet has a serious downside, you won't be able to check the goods before purchase, open air markets excel in that regard. Freelancing has time honored traditions already.

[micmichd]

I'd probably have visited by now if it was a regular resort.

Soi Biker,

excuse me if I'm curious. Is your name your name or a hobby?