Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[thaibeachlovers]

Look beyond the surface and the status quo. A country or empire built on or having slipped into corruption and depravity has never prospered in the long run. Normalization of a sex industry negatively impacts a country in many ways.

That would be every country in the world. There isn't a single country that doesn't have its elements of corrution and depravity, INCLUDING YOURS.

[thaibeachlovers]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

then, my self-righteous friend, don't go there!

reminds me of the anti-abortion zealots in the USA where I saw one pro-protester (a woman) with a placard that read

"don't believe in abortion? FINE don't have one"

you need to think about adopting this yourself and live and let live

Ok, how about a deal? Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy. But in return, sex tourists stop shopping for dildos and Viagra on the main drag of Sukhumvit, and stop parading around Terminal 21 with a hooker on their arm?

Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy

You have come up with many erroneous comments on threads like this, but this one is a classic .

[thaibeachlovers]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

Just wondering.

Where would you advise us to go?

Angeles city, like Pattaya but without the sea

Sorry, there's too many Cities of Angels. Do you mean Los Angeles, Krung Thep, or the one in the Philippines?

Love the sea, though.

He doesn't say City of Angels.

[SoiBiker]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

then, my self-righteous friend, don't go there!

reminds me of the anti-abortion zealots in the USA where I saw one pro-protester (a woman) with a placard that read

"don't believe in abortion? FINE don't have one"

you need to think about adopting this yourself and live and let live

Ok, how about a deal? Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy. But in return, sex tourists stop shopping for dildos and Viagra on the main drag of Sukhumvit, and stop parading around Terminal 21 with a hooker on their arm?

Normal folk don't enter Nana or Soi Cowboy

You have come up with many erroneous comments on threads like this, but this one is a classic .

Try reading my post again. Slower, this time.

[thaibeachlovers]

I wish all those that are so set against the farang scene would go to Walking St and try and "rescue" the women working there instead of railing against it from the anonymity of their armchairs. I reckon they'd be heading home with tails between legs in short order though.

Even better, go home and rescue the poor and exploited there.

[SoiBiker]

I wish all those that are so set against the farang scene would go to Walking St and try and "rescue" the women working there instead of railing against it from the anonymity of their armchairs. I reckon they'd be heading home with tails between legs in short order though.

Even better, go home and rescue the poor and exploited there.

The sex tourists seem quite keen to 'rescue' them already - then build them a nice house up in Isaan somewhere.

[brewsterbudgen]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

On the contrary the refurbishment of Nana Plaza and the reorganisation of the central bars greatly improved the look of the place. Similar to Soi Cowboy, it has managed to reduce the sleaziness and attract regular customers including western couples and curious western women to the open bars. Much to the horror of the hardcore mongers!

[SoiBiker]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

On the contrary the refurbishment of Nana Plaza and the reorganisation of the central bars greatly improved the look of the place. Similar to Soi Cowboy, it has managed to reduce the sleaziness and attract regular customers including western couples and curious western women to the open bars. Much to the horror of the hardcore mongers!

Ha. Farang women are like kryptonite to some of these guys it seems.

[spidermike007]

As a percentage of population Thailand apparently actually rates much lower than Germany for sex workers. But I guess that in Thailand that vetishism of a sort other than bdsm has appeal.

To me it is strange that Thailand continues to consider prostitution illegal while unofficially officially has provided "special " status for Pattaya in avoiding

real attempts to curtail it and yet now suggests to censure it in Bangkok!

Perhaps this is a politically correct announcement ?

In view of the fact that as one of the worlds oldest forms of business no society has effectively ever curtailed it it might be better and healthier for Thailand to consider regulating it?

Either way I doubt it will have any impact on numbers involved.

That is true for many countries. The number of sex workers, and people employed by the sex industry is far higher in the US, than in Thailand. But, it is so far underground. most do not see it, and many Americans are in complete denial about the size of the industry. All making something illegal does, is push it underground. Sex is one of the biggest urges the human being has. You cannot make it go away, by wishing it away, by making it illegal, by claiming it is immoral, or by demonizing it, as has been the case in the US, to an extreme degree. Like so many other American policies, it has failed dismally. About the only other American policy that has failed worse, is the war on drugs. Go on wasting your time fighting the war on sex and drugs. You are doomed to failure.

[thaibeachlovers]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

On the contrary the refurbishment of Nana Plaza and the reorganisation of the central bars greatly improved the look of the place. Similar to Soi Cowboy, it has managed to reduce the sleaziness and attract regular customers including western couples and curious western women to the open bars. Much to the horror of the hardcore mongers!

To the contrary, western couples and curious western women have been going into Nana for decades. Back in '96 I enjoyed the spectacle of a western wife stripped to her underwear dancing in Hollwood Royale ( that was a really great gogo aand open every night till well after dawn- shame it came under new management/ name ) while her husband sat in the crowd.

I also immensly enjoyed seeing single farang women come in determined to be offended and by the time they left being "converted" to enthusiasts. Not to forget those that came looking for a nice young lady for a takeaway.

The Nana of today, unfortunately, is but a shadow of the great mid 90s, before Purachai wreaked havoc.

[thai3]

seen this many a time, fly thousands of miles to sit on their own. Then play the HIV lottery and spend the next few weeks worrying themselves sick, looks like loads of fun.

Edited July 19, 2016 by thai3

[SoiBiker]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

On the contrary the refurbishment of Nana Plaza and the reorganisation of the central bars greatly improved the look of the place. Similar to Soi Cowboy, it has managed to reduce the sleaziness and attract regular customers including western couples and curious western women to the open bars. Much to the horror of the hardcore mongers!

To the contrary, western couples and curious western women have been going into Nana for decades. Back in '96 I enjoyed the spectacle of a western wife stripped to her underwear dancing in Hollwood Royale ( that was a really great gogo aand open every night till well after dawn- shame it came under new management/ name ) while her husband sat in the crowd.

I also immensly enjoyed seeing single farang women come in determined to be offended and by the time they left being "converted" to enthusiasts. Not to forget those that came looking for a nice young lady for a takeaway.

The Nana of today, unfortunately, is but a shadow of the great mid 90s, before Purachai wreaked havoc.

How do you know they were 'determined to be offended?' Sounds like you were just protecting your assumptions onto them.

[spidermike007]

Prostitution exists worldwide, even in the most puritanical of countries ( or should I say especially ). Sex tourism exists where the sex is cheap. It's that simple.

I'm not sure how the Minister proposes to make sex more expensive in Thailand. Perhaps she has a cure for poverty, or the Thai male penchant for leaving their women literally holding the baby.

This minister has no solutions, no cures for society, no way to help the women in the industry, no job substitutes for better employment, no job development programs or plans, and no insights into the driving forces behind the industry. In general, she is in completely over her head, having come from a business and design background. She is wholly, and absolutely unqualified to be leading either the tourism nor the sports ministry, much less both.

She is simply yielding to US pressure to clean things up, more than likely. Too many people are having too much fun. And that must be discouraged at all costs.

[spidermike007]

I have always thought that Thailand is a great example for the rest of the world regarding sex work. Technically, as I understand, prostitution is illegal but the operation of entertainment venues (places understood to have prostitution) are legally licensed. It is a sad commentary on the way women are treated. But the result has been de facto decriminalization. In that regard it works quite well. Worldwide there is huge exaggeration about violence and it is simply not true. Abuse of of "children" is another inaccurate narrative used by those who wish to oppressive women over the oppressor's sex values. But the numbers of those under 18 is usually shown to be very small when we hear reports of raids. Those "children" are almost always 16 and 17 year olds with children of their own. They are desperate to do what their older sisters do to feed those kids. In example after example there is shown to be a struggle of those who want to attack prostitution for moralistic and idealogical reasons and those who recognize that feminism is about the right for women to do what they wish under these difficult economic times. How many people stop to ask how much those workers in 7/11 are paid and how much sometimes quite attractive women working at heavy labor on construction sights are paid? Sex work is one job that pays more than any other option and the work is easier in most cases. The narrative that sex workers are anxiously waiting to be "rescued" is silly for those of us with any first hand knowledge of this issue. The USA has been on a rampage for 15 years to market their extreme conservative sex culture and it needs to be resisted. Thailand has great potential to be a good example by decriminalizing sex work as Amnesty International, the World Health Organization and many other respected group suggest is the best way to change the narrative that powers this social panic called trafficking.

Wow, John Kane comes to the rescue, with a voice of reason, crying in the wilderness. It is amazing how emotional many of the really pure guys and gals get, when this subject comes up. All have an opinion. And unlike this post, few are based on facts, but rather moral high horse, unbelievably self righteous, puritanical, and religious dribble. I am going to venture to guess most of that is covering something up. Some lack of comfort on some level, somewhere in the past. Come on. Sex is the greatest desire most people have. By making it illegal, or closing these venues, all you are accomplishing is to drive it underground. Who benefits from that?

And yes, I agree the single biggest culprit in all of this is the USA, and their ridiculous NGO's. That does need to be resisted, with every ounce of our strength. Wrong is wrong. False puritanism, absolute BS, and false morality stinks. The stench of it can be detected miles away, even oceans away. Resist it. Deny it. Do not allow it. Big brother will not be tolerated!

[SoiBiker]

Dude, nobody's making sex illegal.

[brewsterbudgen]

Come off it Nana is a cesspit that has gotten worse year on year, nothing nice about the place at all, it has become a noisy classless open air slum brothel. If the govt want it to go the same was as SOi Zero, Asoke corner, Suk Square, Clinton Plaza and the other eye sores around there then go it will.

On the contrary the refurbishment of Nana Plaza and the reorganisation of the central bars greatly improved the look of the place. Similar to Soi Cowboy, it has managed to reduce the sleaziness and attract regular customers including western couples and curious western women to the open bars. Much to the horror of the hardcore mongers!

Ha. Farang women are like kryptonite to some of these guys it seems.

Very true!!

[spidermike007]

Record number of tourists, wow well done as the numbers just seem to go up and up. However after living in Phuket for many years when I arrived the bars were thriving with truly an international clientele of foreigners. Now many of the bars are closed whole street are closed and in many of the few bars there are a few depressed looking ladies staring into their phones. Agreed Phuket is not all about bars but apart from groups of loud, spitting Chinese being shuffled around in 60 seat buses pumping out acrid black smoke where have all the other tourist gone and why are Thais saying the economy is bad. Zero Baht tourists is a name often referred to about Chinese tourists, they do not venture out fro their group and every thing is pre-planned. I have left Phuket but did have a great time there but numbers do not mean everything. Thailand should be actively promoting Europeans to return but I never really see much advertising say like Indonesia does.

Good observations. What you are seeing is the absolute lack of progressive policy, and thinking on the part of this administration. The lack of innovation is mind boggling. Indonesia is so far ahead of Thailand on so many levels. The decline continues. Right now, the country is at #29 in the world. Ten years ago its was knocking on #21. Good job guys. My forecast is that Thailand will drop from #2 within ASEAN to #6, within 10-15 years.

Now, they want to kill yet another industry. I sort of agree it is already dying a slow death. Samui and Phuket are both a pale shadow of what they once were. Bars are closing left and right. The country is actively attracting zero baht tourism. And this tourism minister thinks that is a good thing for the future of the nation. Lets substitute really high quality western tourists, who spend alot of money, with bus loads of tourists who spend next to nothing, and see how that works out in the long run.

At the very least, the TAT can keep bragging about the numbers of arrivals.

[thaibeachlovers]

seen this many a time, fly thousands of miles to sit on their own. Then play the HIV lottery and spend the next few weeks worrying themselves sick, looks like loads of fun.

Then play the HIV lottery

Oh puleeeze. If you are going to comment on here at least stop with the misinformation. HIV hasn't been a problem in the farang scene since Meechai. If it were, the number of HIV positive men in the west would be several millions more than it is.

[thai3]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

Edited July 19, 2016 by thai3

[willfreeman]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

risk of contracting HIV from vaginal intercourse with a female is ridiculously low, chance of catching HIV from sex with a man or ladyboy is the real risk,

[thai3]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

risk of contracting HIV from vaginal intercourse with a female is ridiculously low, chance of catching HIV from sex with a man or ladyboy is the real risk,

of course it is thats why millions have died from it and millions have it, ignorance does not help

• Format: Abstract

Send to

Int J STD AIDS. 2013 Jan;24(1):34-8. doi: 10.1177/0956462412472300. Epub 2013 May 6.

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.

Manopaiboon C1, Prybylski D, Subhachaturas W, Tanpradech S, Suksripanich O, Siangphoe U, Johnston LG, Akarasewi P, Anand A, Fox KK, Whitehead SJ.

Author information

Abstract

The pattern of sex work in Thailand has shifted substantially over the last two decades from direct commercial establishments to indirect venues and non-venue-based settings. This respondent-driven sampling survey was conducted in Bangkok in 2007 among female sex workers (FSW) in non-venue-based settings to pilot a new approach to surveillance among this hidden population. Fifteen initial participants recruited 707 consenting participants who completed a behavioural questionnaire, and provided oral fluid for HIV testing, and urine for sexually transmitted infection (STI) testing. Overall HIV prevalence was 20.2% (95% confidence interval [CI] 16.3-24.7). Three-quarters of women were street-based (75.8%, 95% CI 69.9-81.1) who had an especially high HIV prevalence (22.7%, 95% CI 18.2-28.4); about 10 times higher than that found in routine sentinel surveillance among venue-based FSW (2.5%). STI prevalence (Chlamydia trachomatis and Neisseria gonorrhoeae) was 8.7% (95% CI 6.4-10.8) and 1.0% (95% CI 0.2-1.9), respectively. Lower price per sex act and a current STI infection were independently associated with HIV infection (P < 0.05). High HIV prevalence found among FSW participating in the survey, particularly non-venue-based FSW, identifies need for further prevention efforts. In addition, it identifies a higher-risk segment of FSW not reached through routine sentinel surveillance but accessible through this survey method.

Edited July 19, 2016 by thai3

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic posts, flames, and subsequent replies have been removed from this thread.

[DrTuner]

I'm not sure how the Minister proposes to make sex more expensive in Thailand.

Feminism has a good set of tools for that, especially using sex as a tool for extortion. Works if you can turn off the supply, ie. brainwash the female population.

Of course if the men have access to a country with cheaper sex, then they'll go there. You'll also need to close borders or aim for world domination. I think Kobkarn has joined some feminist coalition and Samarn is in cohorts.

[willfreeman]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

risk of contracting HIV from vaginal intercourse with a female is ridiculously low, chance of catching HIV from sex with a man or ladyboy is the real risk,

of course it is thats why millions have died from it and millions have it, ignorance does not help

• Format: Abstract

Send to

Int J STD AIDS. 2013 Jan;24(1):34-8. doi: 10.1177/0956462412472300. Epub 2013 May 6.

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.

Manopaiboon C1, Prybylski D, Subhachaturas W, Tanpradech S, Suksripanich O, Siangphoe U, Johnston LG, Akarasewi P, Anand A, Fox KK, Whitehead SJ.

Author information

Abstract

The pattern of sex work in Thailand has shifted substantially over the last two decades from direct commercial establishments to indirect venues and non-venue-based settings. This respondent-driven sampling survey was conducted in Bangkok in 2007 among female sex workers (FSW) in non-venue-based settings to pilot a new approach to surveillance among this hidden population. Fifteen initial participants recruited 707 consenting participants who completed a behavioural questionnaire, and provided oral fluid for HIV testing, and urine for sexually transmitted infection (STI) testing. Overall HIV prevalence was 20.2% (95% confidence interval [CI] 16.3-24.7). Three-quarters of women were street-based (75.8%, 95% CI 69.9-81.1) who had an especially high HIV prevalence (22.7%, 95% CI 18.2-28.4); about 10 times higher than that found in routine sentinel surveillance among venue-based FSW (2.5%). STI prevalence (Chlamydia trachomatis and Neisseria gonorrhoeae) was 8.7% (95% CI 6.4-10.8) and 1.0% (95% CI 0.2-1.9), respectively. Lower price per sex act and a current STI infection were independently associated with HIV infection (P < 0.05). High HIV prevalence found among FSW participating in the survey, particularly non-venue-based FSW, identifies need for further prevention efforts. In addition, it identifies a higher-risk segment of FSW not reached through routine sentinel surveillance but accessible through this survey method.

who completed a behavioural questionnaire, and provided oral fluid for HIV testing,

​have you ever wondered why they give people taking test for a blood borne illness a behavioral questionnaire?

oral fluid hiv test = rapid tests, which are a joke

[thaibeachlovers]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

I disagree. If "hundreds" of British men were contracting HIV in Thailand, the nanny state would be advertising about it and warning everyone on all planes to Bkk to avoid Thai prostitutes. That they do NOT, means the number contracting it is insignificant.

I can only assume that you know people that refuse to wear condoms when engaging in risky sex. I don't, and I don't know anyone that has HIV.

Four out of millions does not a plague make.

John Holmes died of it too, but they didn't ban the porn industry.

How would a nice girl like you know about "street meat" anyway .

[thai3]

​have you ever wondered why they give people taking test for a blood borne illness a behavioral questionnaire?

oral fluid hiv test = rapid tests, which are a joke

They used to say blood testing was a joke and that HIV was a myth, oral testing is actually very acurate

[Rhys]

MICK at 72 still does it.. then so can you..

[thai3]

I know of four falangs that caught HIV from Thai prostitutes, so the total must be hundreds at least. Did not 'naughty Nigel' from that disgusting Asia street meat site die from it in his 30's?

I disagree. If "hundreds" of British men were contracting HIV in Thailand, the nanny state would be advertising about it and warning everyone on all planes to Bkk to avoid Thai prostitutes. That they do NOT, means the number contracting it is insignificant.

I can only assume that you know people that refuse to wear condoms when engaging in risky sex. I don't, and I don't know anyone that has HIV.

Four out of millions does not a plague make.

John Holmes died of it too, but they didn't ban the porn industry.

How would a nice girl like you know about "street meat" anyway .

I did not say hundreds of Brits had caught HIV here. The last time I visited an STD clinic in the uk there was a poster on the wall stating that 40% of cases were caught abroad on holiday. I am not a girl and knew the Idiot Nigel when he worked at Tesco here.

[willfreeman]

​have you ever wondered why they give people taking test for a blood borne illness a behavioral questionnaire?

oral fluid hiv test = rapid tests, which are a joke

They used to say blood testing was a joke and that HIV was a myth, oral testing is actually very acurate

ive never been administered a rapid test in australia by my docotor

perhaps you should google the bangui criteria that they still use in africa to diagnose hiv, no blood test necessary

[thaibeachlovers]

Record number of tourists, wow well done as the numbers just seem to go up and up. However after living in Phuket for many years when I arrived the bars were thriving with truly an international clientele of foreigners. Now many of the bars are closed whole street are closed and in many of the few bars there are a few depressed looking ladies staring into their phones. Agreed Phuket is not all about bars but apart from groups of loud, spitting Chinese being shuffled around in 60 seat buses pumping out acrid black smoke where have all the other tourist gone and why are Thais saying the economy is bad. Zero Baht tourists is a name often referred to about Chinese tourists, they do not venture out fro their group and every thing is pre-planned. I have left Phuket but did have a great time there but numbers do not mean everything. Thailand should be actively promoting Europeans to return but I never really see much advertising say like Indonesia does.

While package tourist numbers are probably up, I reckon the mongers are way down in arrivals.

I'd venture that they are very cost concious and stay in cheap places. I don't know about Phuket, refusing to go there anymore due to cost, but in Pattaya most cheap places have gone, replaced with expensive ones. While mongers can take cheap flights and eat cheaply, accomodation is probably the biggest expense after the takeaways, and they have simply been priced out of the market. Especially now that the quid has fallen, it is only to be expected that bars will have fewer customers.