200 Bhat ATM Fee ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No, I don't expect it for free...

But I also don't expect the foreign card transaction fees in Thailand to be vastly higher than both:

a) the domestic ATM use fees, and

b] the comparable foreign transaction fees charged by other countries banking systems around the world.

Thailand, now at about $5.70 U.S. per foreign card ATM withdrawal, has one of the highest foreign card ATM withdrawal fees of any country's banking system in the world, and the costs of running/maintaining that system here in Thailand certainly are not accordingly high. By comparison, the average U.S. ATM fee for using a foreign bank card in the U.S. is about half the cost of the Thai foreign card fee.

[And in fact, U.S. banks don't discriminate against foreign card users the way Thai banks do. In the U.S. a foreign card user (someone using a card from a bank other than the U.S.) would typically pay exactly the same ATM fee as a U.S. citizen/resident using their U.S. bank card at a U.S. bank ATM belonging to any other U.S. bank than their own.

All of the above only leaves one answer and result: the Thai government and the Thai banking industry are using the ATM fee as a kind of extortionate tax on tourists and expats, probably figuring that tourists are an easy mark because they won't really closely watch too much how they spend their money on a week or two-long vacation. And they don't have to worry about any industry competitive forces, because the Thai banks act in collusion on their fees with, at least, no objection or argument from the government.

It's the same kind of ripoff mentality that pervades much of the tourist services industry here. Most folks posting here probably would not object if the Thai banks set and kept a reasonable ATM fee that's in line with similar fees in other countries. It's the fact that Thailand's ATM fee is so out of line with the ATM fees in other countries -- without any valid reason for being that way -- that raises people's hackles.

Edited July 21, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[natway09]

Methinks you non Thai Bank A/C ATM users protest just too much

SEA & the Pacific recommended ATM off shore usage rate 200 Bht (or equivalent) rising as we speak to 250 Bht for those banks not increased already.

In last 2 months using Aussie card & Thai card the above is true.

I can speak of NZ, Australia, Malaysia & Indonesia only. Minimum withdraw fee 200 Bht. Oz card equivalent of 260 Bht

[natway09]

I would be very interested to hear from anybody who has withdrawn cash in the UK or US using a Thai ATM card

Less than 200 Bht I do not think so

[Pib]

According to the Bankrate 2015 Survey on ATM Use Fee across America, the average fee was $2.88 (approx Bt100). This fee applies to all cards, domestic or foreign. Keep in mind this is the "non-customer" ATM Use Fee like when you stick a foreign card into a Thai bank ATM; it not one of the additional possible fees your card issuing bank may add-on for a using a non-network ATM, doing a foreign transaction, etc.

Now I feel 100% sure U.S. banks are smiling all the way to the bank in getting a Bt100/$2.88 fee to fill their pockets to maintain & refill ATMs..and provide profit.

Oh, yea, that Bt100/$2.88 fee is on top of the interchange fee they already get to maintain, refill, and provide profit.

You know what is better than one fee to a bankster? Ans: another add-on fee to inflate their profit even more. Airlines pretty much follow the same line of thought now also. Fees, fees, fees, as so many people just seem to accept them without a complaint.

Withdrawing money from an ATM outside your bank's network got even pricier over the past year. In our 2015 study, ATMs charge an average of $2.88 to let non-customers withdraw money -- up 4% since last year.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/checking/record-setting-year-for-checking-account-fees-3.aspx

[Pib]

I would be very interested to hear from anybody who has withdrawn cash in the UK or US using a Thai ATM card

Less than 200 Bht I do not think so

I have used my Bangkok Bank debit card in U.S. ATMs; exact same ATM User Fee as if I insert one of my U.S. bank cards in a non-network ATM. Depending on the bank, it's around $3 or Bt100 to Bt105 using the current exchange rate.

[Thaidream]

As several of the posters stated a 200Baht fee is excessive and above the World average. It is pure greed and another example of how Thailand is double pricing thinking that foreigners will continue to pay the freight of a system that is fraught with greed and corruption. As much as I like Thailand, I am very disappointed at the continual excessive fees that are charged. Another example is traveler's Checks. The fee for cashing a Traveler's check used to be 33 Baht per check, It was raised to 151 Baht per check a few years ago. The TC rates of exchange are higher but when you figure in the fee for cashing the TC you are probably losing money. I keep wondering why the Government Regulators keep allowing banks to become as one poster said banksters. In addition, banks Worldwide were responsible for the economic meltdown of 2008 as well as the Thai meltdown of 1997. How many bankers went to jail?

[ChrisKC]

A nostalgic and ironic note:

Remember the days, not much more than 20 years ago when everyone had to go into the bank for any kind of transaction and only in banking hours? it was mainly free. When ATM's were introduced there were massive savings from reduced labour costs. But gradually, for reasons I am not sure of, ATMS cost a lot more for transactions than labour!

ATM's are fantastically convenient and I now take them for granted and accept the costs.

I have yet to meet a Thai person who knows what the letters ATM represent in words. Is it important? No, of course not, just a curio!

[Lee4Life]

And yet you keep coming back...maybe why it keeps going up. It's a one-percent charge on a 20k withdrawal (even less if you use an ATM that allows a 25k draw). It's seems reasonable to me.

Actually most bank cards from the States will limit your withdrawal transactions to much less than 20,000 baht. They are not like the Thai bank cards, so the percentage you quoted is not really accurate for everyone.

[bazza40]

They fall over themselves to be nice to you, usually offering you a glass of water or tea. You always get the best exchange rate and NO FEES TO PAY.

The banks in Thailand have a spread of 0.6 baht on the buy and sell exchange rates. The competing money exchangers have a spread of 0.2 baht.

Best exchange rate?

It's no wonder they are offering you water and tea. You are manna from heaven.

[bazza40]

If I use an ATM, I am charged 200 baht. My credit union in Australia charges another 100 baht for each ATM withdrawal. So my debit cards are used for an ATM withdrawal for emergencies only.

I withdraw cash from my Thai savings account, virtually total security. Cards at ATM's can be skimmed.

[Ulic]

Banks pay a lot of money to install atms and the associated network infrastructure. They pay for the electricity. Maintenance. Secure cash replenishment.

All of this costs money, which banks earn from their own customers who deposit money in bank accounts and who buy financial products from them.

It sounds like you do none of this, but complain because you are being charged too much.

I bet you also get offended by signs that say "Toilets are for our customers only".

What a bunch of horse manure. The local charge is 15 baht. The 200 baht charge is

nothing more than a Farang tax.

[The manic]

PayPal is the easiest way to tranfser money to another country.

Their charges are very reasonable, don't know about the receiving bank's though.

BUT boy is it easy nowadays.

One minute job.

This sounds a good idea but once I put the money in my PP account how do I get it out I'm Thailand?

[The manic]

I just do on line Swift transfers every couple of months

[bazza40]

Banks pay a lot of money to install atms and the associated network infrastructure. They pay for the electricity. Maintenance. Secure cash replenishment.

All of this costs money, which banks earn from their own customers who deposit money in bank accounts and who buy financial products from them.

It sounds like you do none of this, but complain because you are being charged too much.

I bet you also get offended by signs that say "Toilets are for our customers only".

What a bunch of horse manure. The local charge is 15 baht. The 200 baht charge is

nothing more than a Farang tax.

Agree. It's a lot cheaper for a bank to have Automatic Teller Machines than it is to employ bank tellers, and the ATM's don't knock off at 5 pm or have holidays.

It would be interesting to see the profit margin on ATM operation after amortizing their capital cost, and running cost. Not that you would ever discover that in a bank's annual report.

Think of it as a variation of poker machines. In the gambling industry, a poker machine is supposed to recover its capital cost ( about $30,000 ) inside two months of operation. I'd suggest bank ATM fees are probably set with a similar cost recovery target in mind. After that, it is pure gravy.

[Genericnic]

And yet you keep coming back...maybe why it keeps going up. It's a one-percent charge on a 20k withdrawal (even less if you use an ATM that allows a 25k draw). It's seems reasonable to me.

Some might think it reasonable however I am currently traveling in Japan and I can walk into any 7-11 I the country and draw out 50,000 yen (roughly US$500) from the 7 Bank ATM with no fee at all.

David

[wump]

Open a Thai bank A/C if you visit on a regular basis.

That's kind of missing the point, if a person's income/funds are originating outside of Thailand --- as they typically do for most tourists and many expats as well, who receive pensions and other income from their home country.

You can have all the Thai bank accounts in the world, and many of us do. But if one's funds are originating outside of Thailand, you still have to get those non-Thai based funds into Thailand for local access in one way or another. Using Thai ATMs with one's home country bank cards is a typical way of accomplishing that, especially for those who don't feel very comfortable carrying around/traveling with large wads of cash.

So you feel it's incumbent on Thai banks to allow you to access their money transfer networks for free because you have elected to live in Thailand and maintain your banking relationships outside of Thailand. I don't understand this logic that I hear in all these "ATM fee" threads that regularly pop-up on T-V. The hundreds of millions or billions of bant that Thai banks have spent to set-up, maintain, and administer their ATM and other cash handling channels are supposed to be offered to people who don't maintain deposits at these banks for free...WTH!

What you don't seem to understand is that the banks are already getting paid... read about network fees on page #2.

Their surcharge is really only a ripoff and - just like DCC - any extra surcharge should have never been allowed by the credit card companies. They're getting out of hand all over the world (but in Thailand they are the worst).

As mentioned by other posters, even relatively richer countries don't feel the need for any ATM surcharges (I repeat again: ATM owners are already getting paid by VISA/MasterCard, the surcharge is an unjustified extra fee!). Why is that in your opinion? Do you think they are making a loss over there?

What's your stance on cartels in general? Do you think they are nothing to worry or complain about?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Methinks you non Thai Bank A/C ATM users protest just too much

SEA & the Pacific recommended ATM off shore usage rate 200 Bht (or equivalent) rising as we speak to 250 Bht for those banks not increased already.

In last 2 months using Aussie card & Thai card the above is true.

I can speak of NZ, Australia, Malaysia & Indonesia only. Minimum withdraw fee 200 Bht. Oz card equivalent of 260 Bht

I was recently in Malaysia and Australia. No ATM fees whatsoever. Some banks charge, not all. In Oz, I didn't find a single on that charged. In Malaysia, no charge for me either. Can't speak for NZ or Indo.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I would be very interested to hear from anybody who has withdrawn cash in the UK or US using a Thai ATM card

Less than 200 Bht I do not think so

The only charge they would suffer in the UK would be from the Thai bank. No ATM fee levied. From the US, it would depend on the bank. In New York for instance, using TD Bank, no charge.

Clearly you know nothing at all. Slinging mud and hoping it will stick?

[dutchdog3000]

200 Bhat ATM Fee ?

Every time I come back here the "gouge" is worse.

And exactly what bank is now charging 200 THB ATM fee or are you just guessing ?

K-Bank, Bangkok Bank Siam Bank TMB are all charging 200baht and have been doing so for quite some time.

[dutchdog3000]

And yet you keep coming back...maybe why it keeps going up. It's a one-percent charge on a 20k withdrawal (even less if you use an ATM that allows a 25k draw). It's seems reasonable to me.

Some might think it reasonable however I am currently traveling in Japan and I can walk into any 7-11 I the country and draw out 50,000 yen (roughly US$500) from the 7 Bank ATM with no fee at all.

David

well put David, its not a reasonable fee and will never be. its just a thai bank rip-off

[Carib]

Methinks you non Thai Bank A/C ATM users protest just too much

SEA & the Pacific recommended ATM off shore usage rate 200 Bht (or equivalent) rising as we speak to 250 Bht for those banks not increased already.

In last 2 months using Aussie card & Thai card the above is true.

I can speak of NZ, Australia, Malaysia & Indonesia only. Minimum withdraw fee 200 Bht. Oz card equivalent of 260 Bht

I was recently in Malaysia and Australia. No ATM fees whatsoever. Some banks charge, not all. In Oz, I didn't find a single on that charged. In Malaysia, no charge for me either. Can't speak for NZ or Indo.

Don't worry, they will start charging some day just like banks all over the world are already doing.

[rickudon]

Yes, there are a lot of ways for the 'costs' to accumulate. Sometimes it is not easy to find out what you are being charged, but these days most banks will detail their charges. But it is VERY important to find out what exchange rate you will get, and this can impact on the best way to get your money. From the UK, because of Brexit, last time i looked before getting cash over the Thai banks were offering very poor exchange rates (perish the thought that they might loose money on an exchange!), But Mastercard rate was a good 0.8 baht higher - it was cheaper to use my fee free credit card AND pay the ATM fee than do an online transfer, and that was without taking into account the SWIFT fees. I reckon my card costs me barely more than 1.2% of the international forex rates, including ATM fee, as long as i get out 20,000 baht at a time. Of course, some cards will cost you about 4-5%, Research, research.

I remember when i paid no bank fees and there was no ATM charge 8 years ago when i first came. And Travelers cheques were still an option. Just have to grin and bear it, but be smart.

[dutchdog3000]

Open a Thai bank A/C if you visit on a regular basis.

That's kind of missing the point, if a person's income/funds are originating outside of Thailand --- as they typically do for most tourists and many expats as well, who receive pensions and other income from their home country.

You can have all the Thai bank accounts in the world, and many of us do. But if one's funds are originating outside of Thailand, you still have to get those non-Thai based funds into Thailand for local access in one way or another. Using Thai ATMs with one's home country bank cards is a typical way of accomplishing that, especially for those who don't feel very comfortable carrying around/traveling with large wads of cash.

well stated that's exactly my situation and I can imagine a lot of others as well.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Open a Thai bank A/C if you visit on a regular basis.

That's kind of missing the point, if a person's income/funds are originating outside of Thailand --- as they typically do for most tourists and many expats as well, who receive pensions and other income from their home country.

You can have all the Thai bank accounts in the world, and many of us do. But if one's funds are originating outside of Thailand, you still have to get those non-Thai based funds into Thailand for local access in one way or another. Using Thai ATMs with one's home country bank cards is a typical way of accomplishing that, especially for those who don't feel very comfortable carrying around/traveling with large wads of cash.

So you feel it's incumbent on Thai banks to allow you to access their money transfer networks for free because you have elected to live in Thailand and maintain your banking relationships outside of Thailand. I don't understand this logic that I hear in all these "ATM fee" threads that regularly pop-up on T-V. The hundreds of millions or billions of bant that Thai banks have spent to set-up, maintain, and administer their ATM and other cash handling channels are supposed to be offered to people who don't maintain deposits at these banks for free...WTH!

What you don't seem to understand is that the banks are already getting paid... read about network fees on page #2.

Their surcharge is really only a ripoff and - just like DCC - any extra surcharge should have never been allowed by the credit card companies. They're getting out of hand all over the world (but in Thailand they are the worst).

As mentioned by other posters, even relatively richer countries don't feel the need for any ATM surcharges (I repeat again: ATM owners are already getting paid by VISA/MasterCard, the surcharge is an unjustified extra fee!). Why is that in your opinion? Do you think they are making a loss over there?

What's your stance on cartels in general? Do you think they are nothing to worry or complain about?

Well I think you still haven't really answered the question. So Thai banks are getting paid a network fee from the major credit card networks...what of it? Obviously they're allowed by these networks to to add on additional fees and have chosen to do so. These credit card networks don't build, maintain, and service bank ATM networks so why should they have any say on what bank can charge to use them? If they did, banks might just drop out of the networks and then where would you be? Sure it would be nice if they didn't but that's not the case; and what's our choice as consumers...it's to choose to use the service or not. Tbere are many ways to obtain local currency when traveling or living abroad and using bank ATMs is only one of them.

The banking practices and regulations of other countries have nothing to do with Thailand's so your comparison there is meaningless. Laws, regulations, and business practices differ in all manner of respects between countries and arguing they should be the same makes no sense.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a free-market anti-cartel type of person. However, I'm also a lawyer (in a previous existence) and to my knowledge, there is no Somchai Antitrust Act in Thailand and that business competition law in general in under-developed in Thailand; so that many monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices that would be illegal in other countries are allowed here. It's another add-on cost to living/visiting "paradise" and if one doesn't want to pay it one is free to move along.

[bazza40]

Open a Thai bank A/C if you visit on a regular basis.

That's kind of missing the point, if a person's income/funds are originating outside of Thailand --- as they typically do for most tourists and many expats as well, who receive pensions and other income from their home country.

You can have all the Thai bank accounts in the world, and many of us do. But if one's funds are originating outside of Thailand, you still have to get those non-Thai based funds into Thailand for local access in one way or another. Using Thai ATMs with one's home country bank cards is a typical way of accomplishing that, especially for those who don't feel very comfortable carrying around/traveling with large wads of cash.

well stated that's exactly my situation and I can imagine a lot of others as well.

Depends on what you define as a large wad of cash. It makes sense to withdraw the maximum from an ATM to lower the cost ratio of the fee. So the difference between withdrawing 25000 baht from an ATM, and withdrawing the same amount with a savings passbook is, there is no fee with a passbook in the city of origin, and it can't be skimmed.

[lopburi3]

There is no fee using an ATM to withdraw money from your account if in same area - and you can even use another banks ATM up to 4 times a month free of change. And today we have the option to use chip cards at no extra cost to avoid normal skimming (although common sense would protect most).

[theguyfromanotherforum]

And today we have the option to use chip cards at no extra cost to avoid normal skimming

Got my chipped ATM card skimmed in Canada.

They introduced chip cards because it puts less liability on financial institutions, specifically credit cards regarding unauthorized purchases.

Anyhoo, I don't know why Donald Trump there is defending the high fees. They are utterly outrageous and with a recent tank in currencies they are indeed a robbery.

[Pib]

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a free-market anti-cartel type of person. However, I'm also a lawyer (in a previous existence) and to my knowledge, there is no Somchai Antitrust Act in Thailand and that business competition law in general in under-developed in Thailand; so that many monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices that would be illegal in other countries are allowed here. It's another add-on cost to living/visiting "paradise" and if one doesn't want to pay it one is free to move along.

The Thai Bankers Association thanks you for your understanding...they too believe it's just the price a farang needs to pay when living in Thailand.

But they would like to see if they could change your mind on that free-market, anti-cartel line of thought because that is not a "happy" thought to them.

[OMGImInPattaya]

There is no fee using an ATM to withdraw money from your account if in same area - and you can even use another banks ATM up to 4 times a month free of change. And today we have the option to use chip cards at no extra cost to avoid normal skimming (although common sense would protect most).

Some Thai banks also have ATM card products that allow free-fee withdrawals from any bank ATM throughout the country.

[OMGImInPattaya]

And today we have the option to use chip cards at no extra cost to avoid normal skimming

Got my chipped ATM card skimmed in Canada.

They introduced chip cards because it puts less liability on financial institutions, specifically credit cards regarding unauthorized purchases.

Anyhoo, I don't know why Donald Trump there is defending the high fees. They are utterly outrageous and with a recent tank in currencies they are indeed a robbery.

So now Thai banks are supposed to make up the currency losses of foreigners due to the bad decisions of their governments or peoples