Thaksin Accused Of Giving The License To Kill

[Briggsy]

I will repeat myself, but I think one should look at precedents established during Rwanda trials, not Saddam Hussein's.

Some radio broadcasters and newspaper editors there were convicted for incitement to genocide among other charges.

They, for example, published blacklists with names of people who were later killed by militias.

I agree one should look at the precedents. I also think the people at the top will do everything possible to avoid any form of trial.

[Hermano Lobo]

CASE 1: KILLED IN COFFIN SHOP

A man was shot point-blank in the head and arm at 6pm on February 11 at a coffin shop in Trang province's central market. Shot in front of many witnesses, two kilometres from home and just 300 metres from the police station, he died later at hospital.

The killing was reported as being related to drug trafficking, but the commission learned that no drugs were found on the man's body or at the scene.

Police detectives did not bother to check evidence or even collect the spent cartridges, which were eventually picked up and turned in to police by bystanders.

Despite the number of eyewitnesses, the investigation has made absolutely no progress. The commission said police had blacklisted the victim and his family as drug traffickers and searched their home six times before the shooting, but found no drugs or anything illegal and did not have enough evidence to prosecute the man on drug charges.

CASE 2: SHOT IN FRONT OF WIFE

Three bullets to the head and body left another man dead at 1pm on February 27 next to a central market in a southern province.

He was shot in front of his wife and other family members while he was fixing his motorcycle.

The killing reportedly sprang from conflicts over drug trafficking, but the commission learned that no drugs were found on the deceased or at the scene.

Again, the shooting took place in a crowded area.

District officials and police confirmed that the man had been blacklisted as a trafficker, but authorities were unable to gather enough evidence to prosecute.

Police investigations into that killing and three others in the same area - all said to be related to drugs - went nowhere. Assets seized in this case were later released to the family by the Anti-Money Laundering Office.

CASE 3: GUNNED DOWN AT HOME

A shirtless man was shot five times in the neck and body at 6pm on April 9 while sitting at his desk in the front room of his residential compound. Several neighbours were inside his house and witnessed the killing. Police said the murder was the result of drug conflicts and the victim had earlier been blacklisted.

Detectives and doctors sent to the scene removed his trousers and sent the body to a hospital for an autopsy and X-rays to seek ballistic traces.

The body was transferred to the hospital's morgue, where his underwear was removed and folded before being dumped into a garbage bin.

The whole process was witnessed by relatives and several hospital officials.

Police asked the relatives to leave the room, then summoned them back to tell them that they found more than 100 methamphetamine pills in a small plastic bag the same size as medicine packets used in hospitals.

They accused the relatives of trying to destroy evidence and claimed they were the ones who removed the trousers and underwear.

Doctors who took part in the autopsy testified, however, that police officers had taken off the trousers, while the underwear was removed by the hospital official who cleaned the body. The victim's relatives only assisted him, they said, adding that nothing had been found inside the underwear.

The X-rays, covering all parts of his body, found no trace of a drug packet.

Police have made no progress in investigating this or several other killings in the same district.

Police searched the house of the dead man but found nothing illegal.

They made a list of the man's property and asked the Anti-Money Laundering Office to conduct a probe of the assets.

CASE 4: SHOT WHILE DRIVING

On February 19, a man driving home from a district office was shot twice - once in the right shin and the other in the right side of the neck - just 500 metres from the district office. He was rushed to a nearby hospital while his car was towed to the district police station.

Police and an assistant district chief searched the car and claimed they found speed pills hidden in a hat inside the car. The search was carried out without the dead man's relatives present, even though police knew his family well.

Newspapers reported that he was killed because of drug conflicts.

The commission found that the man and his family had been included on the police blacklist of suspected drug traffickers. Police had earlier searched the man's car several times but always came up empty-handed.

When the government declared the war on drugs, senior district officials asked the man to leave his job with a local administrative organisation, but he refused.

The man said he used to take drugs but had been clean for a long time. He signed a document stating that he was a former drug user. A week before his death, district officials admitted that they lacked evidence to prosecute the man for trafficking.

The killing took place the day the man was summoned to meet district officials. He was shot after leaving the district office. His relatives and district officials said the man had never been seen with the hat containing the drugs.

Police said no progress had been made in their investigation, or in two similar killings in the same district.

CASE 5: HUSBAND, WIFE DEAD

A man and wife were killed in their car in a northeastern province at 4:30am on March 28 after buying goods to sell at their rural home. After shooting the couple dead, the gunman kicked their neighbour, who was accompanying them, and chased him from the car. Newspapers reported that the couple were killed because of conflicts in drug trafficking.

With no relatives present, police searched the car and found 17 ya ba pills hidden behind the driver's seat.

Later that day, they searched the victims' house and seized assets.

The commission found that the couple had been blacklisted, but then told police that they had become suddenly rich from winning first prize in the government lottery. The police did not believe them.

They later travelled to Bangkok to obtain a certificate from the Government Lottery Office proving that they had won Bt6 million in 2000.

The police refused to believe them and argued that they used money from drug trafficking to buy the winning lottery ticket from the real winner.

The two had extended their remote home without telling neighbours that they had won the lottery for fear of being robbed.

Transaction records showed that the victims' account was only credited once with the lottery winnings, and since then they had withdrawn money from the account until only Bt2 million was left.

The commission also found that police searched the couple's house on March 14 but found nothing illegal. Police have made no progress in the investigation into the killings.

- The Nation

==============================================

“Washing your hands when you become very rich doesn’t mean you will be let off hook – the government is after you,” Thaksin warned.

- The Nation

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He was talking about those allegedly involved in drugs in the above comment in 2003... but it would certainly provide a nice self-assessment today. The main difference is that he's unlikely to be gunned down in a tea shop.

I have had a few Thais tell me, "Thaksin good, get rid of drug!"

Much else besides?

The thread reads like a Bond book - Thaksin Accused Of Giving The License To Kill

I think Thaksin is more like Ernst Stavro Blofeld,"Come here pussy" - miaow.

[Briggsy]

I'm sorry I do not follow your post.

[Tony Clifton]

What 's all this about finding proof? He clearly stated his stance on the killings in front of the media numerous times. The media will happily receive subpoenas and provide the footage. G_U_I_L_T_Y.

[ColPyat]

What 's all this about finding proof? He clearly stated his stance on the killings in front of the media numerous times. The media will happily receive subpoenas and provide the footage. G_U_I_L_T_Y.

What he stated was that the killings were inter gang killings, and silencing killings within drug gangs, and had nothing to do with the police.

Just because some internet goofs have only a very nebulous idea of due process, does not mean that there is proof of his guilt that would stand up in any court.

[Tony Clifton]

What 's all this about finding proof? He clearly stated his stance on the killings in front of the media numerous times. The media will happily receive subpoenas and provide the footage. G_U_I_L_T_Y.

What he stated was that the killings were inter gang killings, and silencing killings within drug gangs, and had nothing to do with the police. That sounds like something he would have said AFTER the killings.

Just because some internet goofs have only a very nebulous idea of due process, does not mean that there is proof of his guilt that would stand up in any court.

Well, I'll be damned if ex-PM , Dr. , Pol. Lt. Col. Shinawatra wasn't involved.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[ColPyat]

Well, I'll be damned if ex-PM , Dr. , Pol. Lt. Col. Shinawatra wasn't involved.

I might be a futile exercise to explain you the meaning of due process, but i'll try nevertheless.

Nobody really cares if you think Thaksin was guilty or not. It is completely irrelevant what you, or i think about Thaksin's guilt.

What matters is that the prosecution will find enough evidence to link Thaksin personally to the killings in order to go to trial, and can sustain that evidence in a trial, leading then, if he is found giulty to a conviction. Thaksin will have access to the best defense he can afford, and of course, if found guilty, has the possibility to appeal, until the trial reaches the highest court.

So far there are accusations, circumstantial evidence, speculation, but no proof whatsoever. So far, more than two months after the coup, Thaksin has not been brought to court in a single charge, and not on the drugwar killings either.

It is very interesting that the recently published white paper of the government contained nothing more than the same accusations they have made two months ago, albeit in a more orderly fashion now. Yet, no substantiated accusations that might lead to a trial.

Now, either they have not enough evidence (yet?), or they prefer to accuse but not go to trial (why could that be? ). Or, maybe there is nothing there to link him personally to what he is accused of and the reasons given to us for the coup were based on rumor, and some other reasons not permitted to talk about were behind it.

Or the truth is somewhere in between.

[Briggsy]

Once again, I reiterate that this is all theoretical as I firmly believe there will be no trial for the reasons I have already stated in this post.

I hope I am proved wrong.

[hammered]

Well, I'll be damned if ex-PM , Dr. , Pol. Lt. Col. Shinawatra wasn't involved.

I might be a futile exercise to explain you the meaning of due process, but i'll try nevertheless.

Nobody really cares if you think Thaksin was guilty or not. It is completely irrelevant what you, or i think about Thaksin's guilt.

What matters is that the prosecution will find enough evidence to link Thaksin personally to the killings in order to go to trial, and can sustain that evidence in a trial, leading then, if he is found giulty to a conviction. Thaksin will have access to the best defense he can afford, and of course, if found guilty, has the possibility to appeal, until the trial reaches the highest court.

So far there are accusations, circumstantial evidence, speculation, but no proof whatsoever. So far, more than two months after the coup, Thaksin has not been brought to court in a single charge, and not on the drugwar killings either.

It is very interesting that the recently published white paper of the government contained nothing more than the same accusations they have made two months ago, albeit in a more orderly fashion now. Yet, no substantiated accusations that might lead to a trial.

Now, either they have not enough evidence (yet?), or they prefer to accuse but not go to trial (why could that be? ). Or, maybe there is nothing there to link him personally to what he is accused of and the reasons given to us for the coup were based on rumor, and some other reasons not permitted to talk about were behind it.

Or the truth is somewhere in between.

This is all hypothetical, but the charges if brought in Thailand or in the Hague would almost certainly be incitement charges, which do not require proof of a direct link to the actual event.

The reality is Mr. Thaksin's reputation internationally is being even further damaged, and it wasnt very high to start with. By concentrating on human rights abuses by his government that have been frequently mentioned by human rights organizations even without trial a lot sticks internationally. Back in Thailand it is all about PR. There are Mr. T and his supporters who definitely manipulated the supply of information in at least 2 large regions during the past 5 years who are trying to keep up the image and there is the current government who are trying to play catch up in distributing a different picture in these areas while preaching to an already converted audience in certain other areas who want instant action while also trying to win the PR war with the very large "not saying or doing anything" group. This is politics and is about perceptions and image not about what can or cannot be proved in a court or any concept of innocent until proven guilty, which is a tenuous supposition even in so called developed countries to be honest.

[Briggsy]

Thank you Hammered. It's all about image.

The time-honoured way of dealing with influential people is by sidelining them. Cut them off from their source of income and the levers of power.

Is General Suchinda in prison?

[Plus]

The UN and the whole world have been waiting for Khmer Rouge trials for how long exactly?

Justice system and courts are not designed to work on powerful people like Thaksin or the generals. Domestically they have never had enough authority and internationally there are usually courts and tribunal set up to deal with specific cases. Maybe Thailand can manage to drag Thaksin all the way to Hague but even that court doesn't enjoy a sterling reputation and is not recognised by the US, for example. Will Thaksin be scared for his personal well being? I doubt it, but he will surely be finished politically.

[younghusband]

Thank you Hammered. It's all about image.

The time-honoured way of dealing with influential people is by sidelining them. Cut them off from their source of income and the levers of power.

Is General Suchinda in prison?

The answer to your question is that Suchinda is very definitely not in prison, moves around hiso Bangkok freely, plays golf and frequents the RBSC.Why you may ask is this mass murderer on the lam? Could it be that it is because he didn't threaten the power elite? Indeed I strongly suspected they supported him until annoying mass action by the people made it impossible.

[Briggsy]

Thank you for the reply, Younghusband.

As I am sure you appreciated, it was a rhetorical question to highlight the fact that you can indeed order a large number of your compatriots killed and still waltz around Bangkok enjoying your freedom and the fruits of your spoils. I had no idea he frequented the RSBC though.

There are precedents closer to home than those suggested earlier in the thread (Rwanda/Iraq). The Shinawatras/Dammapongs will not be sweating too much yet.