Is not returning a wai an insult?

[joeyg]

Wai ing is just supporting the hierarchical and outdated social structure, OK if Thais want to do it but i'd rather not be part of it myself. These days I hold a hand up in recognition but do not wai and never a public servant. All this feudal kow towing should not be encouraged and I try to stop Thai kids doing it to me at least. I like people to be treated as equals and not upper and lower class just cos they are older, richer or have some 'respectable' job.

Sort of like our out dated hand shakes. I was raised to shake a mans hand when I meet or greet them.

I'm often surprised that most people don't extend their hand to my hand shake or there is an obvious, uncomfortable pause while I'm waiting for the gesture to register though the cob webs.

Just poor or lack of training from parents from parents I guess.

[joeyg]

A biannual wai topic.

Maybe a biannual enema is more indicated.

[joeyg]

I don't do it at all, it's not my wai.

Neither do I bow in Japan, nor doff my cap in the UK.

You would not shake my hand if offered...?

I find many falangs are surprised, dazed and confused when I offer a hand shake. I think just not raised with good manners or alcohol damaged brains.

[joeyg]

Ok my God I read the first almost 2 pages!!!

[Gecko123]

Reciprocating common courtesies and respecting local customs is always advisable. The goodwill generated will always outweigh the occasional social gaffe which might arise.

Wai am I not surprised that there are many here advocating otherwise?

Edited July 29, 2016 by Gecko123

[MissAndry]

I don't do it at all, it's not my wai.

Neither do I bow in Japan, nor doff my cap in the UK.

You would not shake my hand if offered...?

I find many falangs are surprised, dazed and confused when I offer a hand shake. I think just not raised with good manners or alcohol damaged brains.

So you wouldn't offer a hand shake to a black man? Whites only?

Edited July 29, 2016 by MissAndry

[GOLDBUGGY]

I don't think that not returning as Wai is an insult to a Thai when you are a foreigner. I also don't think it is expected of you from Thais anymore than it is expected you know the Thai Language. I leave that sort of thing up to my Thai Wife to do, who does this much better than I do. I find that a smile and a "Thank You" works far better for me as I always get at least a smile back.

Besides all that a "Wai" is not the same as a "Thank You" in our language and when you expect a return "You are Welcome". In Thai Tradition a "Wai" is more of a show of a sign of respect for the person they are dealing with. So a lot depends on who they are, as well as who you are, age, and where you might fall into rank in the system or family. When two people may be considered at the same rank, then no "Wai" is given by either party. Ever see a Thai Husband give his wife a "Wai" or visa versa? But yet they both will to a Monk.

On the other hand Thai Children are taught to respect their elders. On many occasions you will see them give a "Wai" to you or an Elder (not their parents), a Monk, or even a Teacher. Rarely, if ever, do they get a "Wai" back. Their rank is very low in this system, so just watch them closely the next time and see for yourself.

So when you give a "Wai" to a young salesgirl who just sold you something, and she smiles and laughs at you, but doesn't return this, it is not because she is trying to insult you. It may be because you weren't supposed to give her one in the first place, although she should have given you one. Unless of course if you are not a child.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The closest I can find to a wai is calling someone "sir" in a USA/UK context.

You would not call the young waiter "sir" if you are much older, unless you were being ironic. In the same way, I would not return the wai from a greeter in a restaurant or from the cashier, which sometimes occurs in the better class of hotel after you have settled your bill.

In the case of ANY official in a uniform in ANY country where you are a mere civilian, you always call him sir or her ma'am (or Ms in the UK as Madam can sound strange) - in the UK, you can always call them by their title, Constable, Sergeant etc. Especially if I think that I will ever see an immigration officer or policeman every again, I will always continue to call him sir. So I would continue to wai the Thai immigration officer every time. It means that they cannot say afterwards that you disrespected them or the uniform or whatever.

I think your comparison of "Wai" and "Sir" is a very good one. A very good guild-line to follow, if you are going to do this sort of thing.

I only differ with you on "The Man in Uniform" as in my country they address you as "Sir". Of course one should never argue with a Man in Uniform, and showing respect helps, but addressing him as Constable is also fine. If you ask him his name he will tell you "Constable So & So". So obviously the correct way to address him as well.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Wai ing is just supporting the hierarchical and outdated social structure, OK if Thais want to do it but i'd rather not be part of it myself. These days I hold a hand up in recognition but do not wai and never a public servant. All this feudal kow towing should not be encouraged and I try to stop Thai kids doing it to me at least. I like people to be treated as equals and not upper and lower class just cos they are older, richer or have some 'respectable' job.

It is never out of style or old fashioned to show good manners in any culture. I am sure you were taught when you were young to be polite to. True that many people don't say "Please" or "Thank you" for anything, or say "Sir", to anybody. But to me this only shows how uncultured they are, and not some hidden strength.

True that most Farangs shouldn't do the "Wai", as they don't know how to use this properly, but Thai Kids do. So stopping them from doing this is just another example of being uncultured, or ignorant. It is also never out of style or old fashioned to show respect to ones elders. We probably need more of this and not less.

[joeyg]

I don't do it at all, it's not my wai.

Neither do I bow in Japan, nor doff my cap in the UK.

You would not shake my hand if offered...?

I find many falangs are surprised, dazed and confused when I offer a hand shake. I think just not raised with good manners or alcohol damaged brains.

So you wouldn't offer a hand shake to a black man? Whites only?

Don't understand the White Black reference.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I am a foreigner, an American, and 70 years old.

I wai whoever I feel it is appropriate to wai .

That might be a taxi driver who goes out of his or her way to drive me under the entrance way roof during the rainy season so I won't get wet.

And if that same taxi driver gives me a wai when I pay him or her It's my choice to return it or not.

Then why not Salute the Taxi Drivers and call him "Sir" instead. At least then you are making a mockery out of your own culture, and not somebody else's. You might even get as laugh or two by doing so. Which I am sure you get later anyway after you do your Wai and they talk about it behind your back.

The best advice here so far has been that if you don't know what you are doing, as in your case, you are better off not doing anything at all. You talk like being 70 years old gives you special rights to do what you want. That being an America and 70 years old gives you double those rights. The truth is no man is an island here. When you do something stupid you make us all look stupid. You should know by now that nobody respects somebody else for being stupid, even when he smiles collecting your money.

[joeyg]

Maybe we can learn from Thais?

[joeyg]

[joeyg]

I am a foreigner, an American, and 70 years old.

I wai whoever I feel it is appropriate to wai .

That might be a taxi driver who goes out of his or her way to drive me under the entrance way roof during the rainy season so I won't get wet.

And if that same taxi driver gives me a wai when I pay him or her It's my choice to return it or not.

Then why not Salute the Taxi Drivers and call him "Sir" instead. At least then you are making a mockery out of your own culture, and not somebody else's. You might even get as laugh or two by doing so. Which I am sure you get later anyway after you do your Wai and they talk about it behind your back.

The best advice here so far has been that if you don't know what you are doing, as in your case, you are better off not doing anything at all. You talk like being 70 years old gives you special rights to do what you want. That being an America and 70 years old gives you double those rights. The truth is no man is an island here. When you do something stupid you make us all look stupid. You should know by now that nobody respects somebody else for being stupid, even when he smiles collecting your money.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Edited July 29, 2016 by joeyg

[Mousehound]

Wai ing is just supporting the hierarchical and outdated social structure, OK if Thais want to do it but i'd rather not be part of it myself. These days I hold a hand up in recognition but do not wai and never a public servant. All this feudal kow towing should not be encouraged and I try to stop Thai kids doing it to me at least. I like people to be treated as equals and not upper and lower class just cos they are older, richer or have some 'respectable' job.

Well people are not all equals. I object to young kids pushing in front of me and I don't like to see young people take a seat when there are old, infirm or pregnant women standing. It really comes down to common courtesy. If you mean that everyone should be courteous regardless of age or status I would agree. Personally I rather like the Wai. We don't all have to end up with every culture ignoring its heritage.

[oldies1]

i usually just smile and nod and that is fine

I also smile and nod friendly because it's better to return a greeting by doing this because few farang can do a proper wai (so I have seen) and look ridiculous

Edited July 29, 2016 by oldies1

[Tchooptip]

To Wai or not to Wai that is the question

[fey]

In a social scene like that where people are watching I just play it safe and say "thanks". Not worth it to me to "try to be thai" and do something weird or wrong.

I do find foreigners going over board on the Thai stuff a bit annoying, you have to strike a balance there.

I never wai men, but I do like getting and returning them from females. Most thai men I meet are beneath me in social status and make their living sitting on the corner all day on these adult tricycles looking foolish. Why don't they get jobs and support their families?

Why can't they wipe their own arse? Why do they think it's funny that they can't?

Edited July 29, 2016 by fey

[berybert]

i dont wai anyone and would hope no one would ever wai me.

In the UK where I'm from I also never call anyone Sir or Madam.

I work in a type of service industry whereby people will tell you their name as soon as you meet them and I will then tell them my name and exchange a hand shake. Because I have such a bad memory I normally forget the name as soon as I've been told it. I then refer to them by the title of 'excuse me' whenever I need to speak to them.

[DrTuner]

Wai is a quaint remnant of Sakdina. Thais have however evolved and now it's the usual snarl or "hey you". I prefer it.