Is not returning a wai an insult?

[Suradit69]

A biannual wai topic.

Famously dealt with at great length by Stickman in 2005 http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Weekly/weekly220.htm

[Enoon]

Who, in Thailand, never has to wai first, to anyone?

(Maybe not who you think.)

[richard_smith237]

My take on this:

Yes, the Immigration officer was impolite by not returning your Wai... he should have, but chose not to.

That said, there really was no reason to Wai him in the first place.

With Immigration Officers (and anyone in similar positions) I find it unnecessary to Wai, however, I'll always nod and say thank you (in English).

As a general rule of Thumb, I Wai when I would use a handshake, in such situations I often go 'dual-cultural' and when I Wai I follow it up with a handshake.

----

Wai'ing is not that tricky... The who, where and how of Wai'ing all vary... the simple rule is 'It's ok to return a Wai'.... Or if Introduced by a Thai to and older Thai then offering a Wai is appropriate and it 'should' be returned.

----

Years ago an ex girlfriends Mother didn't return my Wai (her father, about 40 years my elder, did return the Wai).

... afterwards I commented to my ex that I'm not going to Wai her mother again if she's not polite enough to return it, this was passed on to her father who's response was along the lines of 'I don't blame him, she was impolite!'...

[tifino]

from someone, like a public srvnt, who is unknown to you, don't expect a Wai, and it will if ever, only happen if he/she is younger than you

all us falangs look alike, so , not receiving a Wai can also be if he wants to pretend he ahd no idea you were older than him - i.e. gigyat

Best only Wai someone first:

• if you believe he/she is older than you,
• or he/she's a monk/nun/temple elder respectively,
• or a policeman about to write you a ticket

[Thunderbirds20]

There is a pecking order starting with monks, professionals, authority figures, as well as age. I am 69 years old and no Thai ever wais me first. Also the higher the hands are held the greater the respect, ...... evidently, this does not apply to foreigners. The Land of Smiles is losing it's identity as a gentle nation, .... disrespect is rampant and violent attacks on the rise. No wonder Thailand made it in the top ten most dangerous places to visit!

It has certainly changed in the 11 years I have been here. Now I am afraid to go out at night alone. As an elderly person, I am an easy target for Thai Thugs that roam in gangs looking for someone like me.

[thai3]

Why would you wai someone when it's alien to your culture?

Because it's an essential part of the culture in which you're living? Try holding down a job here, putting kids through local schools, etc. without wai-ing. You'll do about as well as say, a Chinese guy in the UK who refuses to shake an outstretched hand because it's 'alien to his culture'. If you're just a tourist (even a multi-year one), not really participating in local life, then of course, ignore the whole custom if you like. I mean, why even try to adapt to your surroundings?

To the OP: your 'thank-you' wai was polite but optional, as was a wai in response. If you watch Thais at restaurants, for example, they usually return the 'greeting" wai when they enter, but often don't return the 'thank-you' one given when they walk out. So do it if you feel like it, or not. The only common situation I can think of in which initiating a wai isn't optional is when you enter someone's house. Thais cut farang a lot of slack on wai-ing, but most would find that a little weird and impolite.

You could say the same for wearing amulets, believing in ghosts, driving while drunk and cheating on the mrs, all part of the culture. Thing is not all aspects of a culture deserve respect and grovelling, which i consider wai ing to be neither deserves to be respected or followed. Not the same as shaking hands at all, wai ing denotes superiority and inferiority, and that is bad.

[MissAndry]

I don't do it at all, it's not my wai.

Neither do I bow in Japan, nor doff my cap in the UK.

Edited July 28, 2016 by MissAndry

[gandalf12]

There is also the status regarding wai's. The lower ranked person would Wai the higher ranked but the higher does not need to reply with a wai. You normally consider persons of lower status wai you and it is up to you if you return the wai.

If you met someone of higher status than you, you would wai and the other person may or may not respond accordingly. In you case the Immigration officer would hold a higher status than you hold so it was right you wai'd him but he doesn't need to respond with a wai. It isn't considered an insult it is just the class system at work

[MissAndry]

I don't do it at all, it's not my wai.

Neither do I bow in Japan, nor doff my cap in the UK.

You would not shake my hand if offered...?

Probably not.

[Scotwight]

Why would you wai someone when it's alien to your culture?

Because it's an essential part of the culture in which you're living? Try holding down a job here, putting kids through local schools, etc. without wai-ing. You'll do about as well as say, a Chinese guy in the UK who refuses to shake an outstretched hand because it's 'alien to his culture'. If you're just a tourist (even a multi-year one), not really participating in local life, then of course, ignore the whole custom if you like. I mean, why even try to adapt to your surroundings?

To the OP: your 'thank-you' wai was polite but optional, as was a wai in response. If you watch Thais at restaurants, for example, they usually return the 'greeting" wai when they enter, but often don't return the 'thank-you' one given when they walk out. So do it if you feel like it, or not. The only common situation I can think of in which initiating a wai isn't optional is when you enter someone's house. Thais cut farang a lot of slack on wai-ing, but most would find that a little weird and impolite.

You could say the same for wearing amulets, believing in ghosts, driving while drunk and cheating on the mrs, all part of the culture. Thing is not all aspects of a culture deserve respect and grovelling, which i consider wai ing to be neither deserves to be respected or followed. Not the same as shaking hands at all, wai ing denotes superiority and inferiority, and that is bad.

Long term resident and cultural expert - it is a sign of courtesy and respect. People who don't wai are usually Western women or uniformed male hooligans.

[catman20]

Personally I think your being over sensitive, most times l ' wai ' back if they ' wai ' me but l am English.

i do the same im English also

[bazza40]

You would not shake my hand if offered...?

Probably not.

Why...?

Because some people are miserable human beings.

[DrTuner]

Since you were speaking to an officeeerh, do a proper salute:

Gotta respect that authtaritaaah.

[Mrjlh]

I have been told by Thais the older person does not need to return a Wai. Just a nod of the head is sufficient. However most do it out of courtesy. So was he older than you? Also if the person has a higher position in life than you, such as an Immigration Officer who thinks they are, they do not necessarily wai back.

Other than that your skin is too thin. Let it go.

[tifino]

...maybe just be satisfied with a whispered "sabtu sabtu", if anything at all...

[Chapelroad]

I do what I do, but I was brought up polite.

Whether anybody else thinks I am correct in doing so, or not, I really could not care.

As long as I feel comfortable about it, I am happy within myself.

[georgemandm]

Why would you wai someone when it's alien to your culture? A smile and a nod of the head is quite sufficient.

And anyway, wai-ing is related to social status. As an outsider you have no social status in Thailand, so are not worthy of a wai. The officer would no more wai you than he would wai a whore.

Very , very true

I don't wai Thais that much just say thank you in thai

[Rod Gold]

As a foreigner, why wai, unless the Thai person first acknowledges your presence with a wai of their own?

Stick to being a happy smiling farang, no drama please...

[Thingamabob]

You should not, repeat not, be waing this guy. It will not be appreciated, and can be interpreted as lampooning Thai culture. Just say thank you in Thai or English and move on.

[Inyourendo]

Love the suck ups that wai to everything that moves.

[citzofwrld]

Or maybe the guy was just full of himself. A uniform tends to give some people a big head.

Mostly 'poor' people. Having a uniform, badge, gun, they think, means they are more important then you, so deserve respect. The rich, use their money/power, to get respect. Not working so well for them today as it has in the past because most people now have had their fill of arrogant rich people throwing their weight around. Those in uniform are starting to get the same treatment for the same reason. I give respect to those that respect me. Its earned, not granted upon demand.

[IMA_FARANG]

I am a foreigner, an American, and 70 years old.

I wai whoever I feel it is appropriate to wai .

That might be a taxi driver who goes out of his or her way to drive me under the entrance way roof during the rainy season so I won't get wet.

And if that same taxi driver gives me a wai when I pay him or her It's my choice to return it or not.

[zeichen]

Learn the proper way to wai and who to wai to; which it seems most on this site don't know.

first of all, you shouldn't have given him the wai as you are older than he is. It is kind of like you saying excuse me sir to a younger person, just makes us feel uncomfortable.

Second, it isn't uncommon for government workers to just move to the next person. They are busy and probably wasn't even thinking. It wasn't a disrespect to you at all. You don't matter and are irrelevant. Unless perhaps you think that you are a movie start or that your 50k baht a month pension demands all Thais prostrate themselves before you.

Third, you are a foreigner and many Thais that deal with a lot of foreigners don't use Thai expressions or customs with them. If you were in your country working with Japanese all day would you shake their hand or bow to them? Most would eventually bow with them even though it isn't your custom, you would follow the custom of the people you deal with the most.

[sawadeeken]

Are you asking about waing a Thai person or waing somebody working in a governmental position? And it is you who is the farang that is offering the first wai? You must remember that Thais working in governmental positions consider themselves as 'gods' and they feel no need to respond. Some government office workers do respond just out of appreciation that YOU are trying to be polite. My basic understanding is that a wai is a show of respect between Thais. Lower rank wai higher rank ( as a common citizen will wai a police). Farangs are not really included in the custom although are appreciated usually for their desire to 'fit in'.

Outside of your concern about waing are other Thai customs that farangs commonly 'offend' and are forgiven because they are farang and ignorant of the customs. Examples of this are that a younger person never touches the head of an older (or superior) person of any age. You never use your foot or allow your foot to point directly at a person, especially an older or superior person (and especially Buddha or a Buddha image), when sitting or gesturing. You do not place socks and underware above anything of Thai (or Buddha) value, Such as a buddhist amulet on a gold chain or even food items. When clothes are hung out to dry the socks and underware are always placed at a level below other garments - the feet are considered dirty as are sox and underware and are not to be allowed to soil or be placed above anything of Thai 'value'. Also a lady never touches a Buddhist Monk. Some Farang ladie sometime touch a Monk as in taking a photo together and although usually avoided by the Monk the farang ladies are not scolded as a Thai lady might be, because they are farang (and ignorant of the custom). That is why you see Buddhist Monks on public busses seated with men and often in 'front seats'............

As farangs, we are usually excused normally when we 'compromise' any of these customs and just considered stupid or ignorant of 'Thai (Buddhist) Custom'...........................

Forget the guy at Immigration.........................

[blackcab]

And anyway, wai-ing is related to social status. As an outsider you have no social status in Thailand, so are not worthy of a wai. The officer would no more wai you than he would wai a whore.

I've found that my status is a result of the status my wife and her family receive.

If I'm out with the wife (or her family) and she gets respect for whatever reason, I seem to be included. For example if someone fetches her a glass of water I get a glass of water too.

By myself I would still be thirsty.

[cyberfarang]

Not waiing back is a terrible insult. It means the immigration officer hates the OP with every fiber of his being. Happened to me once and had to spend 6 months in counseling and even now still having the nightmares.

But although still suffering the terrible affects from my ordeal, I would never make a thread about it because I have a life and worse things to worry about.

[Mooner]

I never Wai anyone apart from the family and anybody in introduced to who is obviously older than me.

You don't need to do it to service staff or immigration unless they have helped you out in a sticky situation maybe.

Cracks me up farang wai'ng restaurant staff and even worse Farang wai'ng over Farang. ?

[bubba1]

You did it all wrong.

Before you go to Immigration visit an Indian tailor and get a brown 3 piece suit made. Bring a silk tie from HK or your home country.

Get your suit on and head to Immigration with a leather briefcase. Wai everyone you see and tip everyone in uniform 100 baht. Walk out like a superstar and catch the baht bus home. Crank up some George Jones at the house and have a few light ales. No worries in the world.

[tifino]

the bottom lines is that:

to Wai, or not - an insult isn't going to result in your death, as an Infidel

[joeyg]

Why would you wai someone when it's alien to your culture? A smile and a nod of the head is quite sufficient.

And anyway, wai-ing is related to social status. As an outsider you have no social status in Thailand, so are not worthy of a wai. The officer would no more wai you than he would wai a whore.

110% wrong.

Waing rules.

1 Always! Wai to a monk or person older than yourself when greeting them. Shows respect. Generally they won't wai back.

2 Do not initiate a wai to other people especially to children or any younger person. They think your stupid.

3 The higher the hands are raised the more respect intended.

4 When encountering a group of Thai friends at a party or meal, if someone wais to you give a quick wai, even if they're younger, no higher than chest high and say krup. Standard most will return wai, some will not. It's normal.

5 Except for a monk or older person always respond to wais with a deliberate nod of the head and a long drawn out melodious krup. Thais seem to like this. And it makes them smile.

This is what I've learned here since 1971 anyway.