Buying A Shop Unit In Bkk

[tk47]

If I wanted to buy / lease one of those small 'workshop' type units that are about the size of a double garage..... Hope this Q is not too generalised ....

Who do you see about it?

Can I convert it to any use - within reason - say a shop, a salon, ice house etc.

Any idea on costs involved - rent, rates, taxes etc.

Can a farang on retirement visa get one?

Does the accomodation above the shop usually come with a unit?

I do realise a Lawyer would be involved and wonder what sort of expenses they would charge.

And any other useful information would be a great help.

Thx.

[Cyberstar]

If you're a foreigner on your own (meaning lease or ownership has to be in your name) there'll be some more hurdlles to surmount, than I've had to deal with. But here's my learning from a single experience of doing something similar to what you're outlining. (I'm Chiang Mai located, where prices are a bit lower than BKK, but the basics can't be much different):

If I wanted to buy / lease one of those small 'workshop' type units that are about the size of a double garage..... Hope this Q is not too generalised ....

Who do you see about it?

We (wife and I) cruised the city streets looking for closed shops with for lease/sale signs with phonenumbers to the landlord. Called a few numbers until some landlord gave us a reply we liked. Hired a lawyer (5000 Baht) to secure a 3-year lease for a four story shophouse. No business brokers or real estate agents involved.

Can I convert it to any use - within reason - say a shop, a salon, ice house etc.

The landlord granted us permission to make any kind of shop - except a restaurent (probably because his brother had one next door).

Can a farang on retirement visa get one?

Sure, he can both rent and buy one - but does he want to work in it?

Does the accomodation above the shop usually come with a unit?

In many cases yes. If not for other reasons, then because entrance to the upper floors often is through the shop ... but I have seen rentals for the shop only.

I do realise a Lawyer would be involved and wonder what sort of expenses they would charge.

Generally, it would be a bad idea to rent or buy a shophouse without the assistance of a reliable lawyer (yours). However, technically he isn't a law determined requirement (as in my homecountry) ... We later bought the shophouse without any lawyer .. . But we had come to know the landlord as a decent, straight forward guy. Besides, we've got a mortgage (Bangkok Bank) with the chanote as security ... I can assure you, the staff member from the bank, participating in the process at the land office, was uttermost careful that the chanote was properly signed over to my wife, before handing over the banks money to the seller.

[tk47]

Interesting. Thanks for that.

[simcity]

I will give you some info’s about shophouse , some are freehold / some are temple land , and some are on king land !

The price vary greatly if it is a freehold or not ! and the position commercial !

Boyfriend ‘s father was selling one of his ( temple land ) and the shop house was already on the name of my friend , I bought it about 9 years ago , for under one million , spend 400000 baht to add new bathrooms one the terrace upstairs, one downstairs / new windows all length of the wall , partition , ceiling , air-conditioned , change the stair position , all new lighting / plumbing , new garage door , plus other !

I will said the rental in the street is about 8000 baht perhaps bit more .

Every three year a contract have to be sign with the temple , who own all the shops houses in the soi , the cost is one ( three year period ) 5000 baht , the other ( three year period ) 50000 baht ! total for 6 years for 55000 baht .

Every years I paid them a sum of 11000 baht for tax / insurance and a kind of rent .

I done the total sum , the cost is 1650 baht a month include the contract cost !

I did ask them if they will accept a form of company seal for signing the contract , they said no problem ! Remember I do not own the land, but I do not want to worry with that as it will be a present for my friend !

I am looking long term with it , the shop house did increase a bit , said 20 % the last 8 years, I am not here to make money , but I have a place and a area I like to live in, no body corporate fees and problems, calm neighbor , plus a dog !

The shophouse is over 40 years old and as been with the same temple ! Everyone paid the same in all the street !

You can do any sort of businesses if I wish too , but I just live there , three stories .

Some temple charge less, my friend around Sanamlung paid 500 baht a month , no cost for contract but shophouse is about 3-4 million and the rental higher ( Pra Chan road ) and it is only commercial !

I presume you read the Bangkok post article this morning on shophouse in Pra Atit and Pra Samsen road , I can assure you the rental there is very high , my friend wanting to open a restaurant look at few buildings !

Look a small soi for a better deal , ask around .

[Nawtilus]

Shop houses in the good locations are between 10mil and 20 mil.

Shophouses in smaller sois out in the burbs are 1 to 2 mil, probably even cheaper but I would not want one of those.

My friend and I looked at several last year, places we saw in small sois out in the burbs and they were 1.2/1.5 etc, but certainly nothing flash for that.

There is 3 shophouses in Suriwongsee currently for 30mil and there was one in Convent for rent for 50k per month. These are just the high profile ones, actuall the 50k was cheap considering, but if you look around you will find cheaper, but as with anything its the location that demands the price.

[tutsiwarrior]

for what the info is worth I bought two 3m x 10m side by side new built shop houses in a small town in southern Suphanburi for 1.4m baht...onna side street by the municipality premises, paved road with all amenities (drinkable tap water and daily rubbish collection) about 1.5 hours to the northern outskirts of BKK on rumbling public bus (one per hour). It's commutable and people do it. The houses were just shells and had to finish them with ceilings, kitchens, tile work and a nice western toilet/shower on the upper level for meself...spent about 800k baht. Piped water and power supply already installed...but the houses had to be wired for lights and power outlets.

One thing to watch, shop houses are basic, meaning they're just basically garages with no ceiling on the upper level and a squat hole-in-the-ground toilet and shitty wiring, if any. If you're gonna live there think about the extra dough to make the place livable.

We've since added a third house and a grand terrace to the rear which provides outside garden area that shop houses don't have...a world of difference...

just my 25 cents and Happy Thanksgiving...

Edited November 23, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[poorfarang]

Most shop houses are pretty bland, but I did see a few luxurious shop houses on the internet. Looks quite livable.

[tutsiwarrior]

Most shop houses are pretty bland, but I did see a few luxurious shop houses on the internet. Looks quite livable.

yeah...there's a lot of scope for improvisation with shophouses. On my side I removed a wall and made the entire upstairs open plan except for the toilet to the rear. With windows on two sides I got a nice setup from which to aggravate people on thai-visa. A balcony to the front and now with the back terrace that spans the three houses that we got in a row...with a magnificent view...something that Constable would have painted and entitled 'South East Asian Countryside'...

If you're in the market just use yer imagination...materials and builders are cheap...

Edited November 24, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Cyberstar]

Most shop houses are pretty bland, but I did see a few luxurious shop houses on the internet. Looks quite livable.

yeah...there's a lot of scope for improvisation with shophouses. On my side I removed a wall and made the entire upstairs open plan except for the toilet to the rear. With windows on two sides I got a nice setup from which to aggravate people on thai-visa. A balcony to the front and now with the back terrace that spans the three houses that we got in a row...with a magnificent view...something that Constable would have painted and entitled 'South East Asian Countryside'...

If you're in the market just use yer imagination...materials and builders are cheap...

Seconded ...

Buy a bland shophouse, spend an extra 1 - 1 1/2 mil baht and you can have a centrally located domicil of double the size and at half the price of nearby grade A condos with an interiour that easily matches these. No law requires you to run a business there if that's what you don't want, but as a fringe you'll be living a place that is legally valid as business/office address in case you're in need of such.

Some CM data - adjust as seems fit for BKK:

Recently bought a 4-story shophouse in the downtown area for 3 mil baht. It's located on a regular business street of the typical mixed kind. Not exactly main street, but walk-in trade does make the hassle worthwhile. On a scale from 1 (best) to 10, the location will probably be on level 3 1/2, small-scale business wise, looking at CM city as a whole. However, five minutes walk and you're right in the middle of the bright lighted turisty barscene/shopping/restaurent area.

Spent about 200 K to improve the interiour to our liking. Total costs 3.2 mil for 280 liveable sqm floors. Wouldn't want the interiour any other way than it is now, but let's face it: It'll take another million before it would appeal to yuppies.

Just today I saw a 150 sqm condo for sale at 6.0 mil baht. I think it's called "centrally located", but it'll take at least 45 minutes to walk to the bright light area.

Edited November 24, 2006 by Cyberstar

[The Skipper]

The nicest shophouse I ever saw was in Phuket.

The guy dug out the ground floor and had an indoor pool with a spiral staircase going upstairs.

He faced the building with marble tile, added teak doors and floors.

The place was DELUXE.

[redwood13]

I currently live in a shop house and did so previously and one major drawback is the poor sound proofing between adjacent units.

-redwood

[tutsiwarrior]

I currently live in a shop house and did so previously and one major drawback is the poor sound proofing between adjacent units.

-redwood

yeah, that's right...we now got electricians doing the wiring in the new house two doors down and the tap-tapping of their little hammers doing the little wall clips for the cabling sounds like it comes from downstairs instead...but we got common walls between the 3 houses so maybe a diff...I think twice now about listening to Jimi and Led Zep middle of the night at volume 10 when out of my gourd on whatever...

[TizMe]

I currently live in a shop house and did so previously and one major drawback is the poor sound proofing between adjacent units.

-redwood

yeah, that's right...we now got electricians doing the wiring in the new house two doors down and the tap-tapping of their little hammers doing the little wall clips for the cabling sounds like it comes from downstairs instead...but we got common walls between the 3 houses so maybe a diff...I think twice now about listening to Jimi and Led Zep middle of the night at volume 10 when out of my gourd on whatever...

That's interesting. We live in two side-by-side shop houses and I find the sound proofing is excellent. I can crank up Led Zep and next door it can't be heard unless you go out onto the balcony.

[Cyberstar]

I sort of believe its rather unimportant if it's a shophouse or something else. What makes the difference is whether walls are bare concrete with paint or bare concrete with soundproofing. A former neighbor had a professional soundstudio on the same floor as our bedroom. In the beginning we thought they never used it - total silence from that direction. It turned out that 2-4 people were working there making noises in a propfessional manner almost every night until long after midnight. I once was in there with closed doors in the middle of the day - THAT was silence! ...

So soundproofing a shophouse can be done --- Can't imagine it much different than soundproofing a condo, by the way. Never been in one in Thailand but I've heard that most of them basically are just cubes of concrete which share their walls with neighbor condoes - most of them even get "neighbor" generated noise through both floors and ceilings ... Can you imagine that?

[Farma]

I used staycool insulation on the ceiling and up the sides in the open ceiling area where our shophouse joined the others. That silenced the noise from the neighbours except when they slam doors or drill the walls.

[tk47]

Some very useful observations there. Especially about upgrading the living quarters of the shop/house. It is something I want to look further into and all the above information has been a great help.

My intention is to have the shop part run by a thai friend and to be able to live above the shop means not having to rent / buy a seperate place.

Now I'll copy and pase the replies to my computer and keep for reference.

Thanks again

[tutsiwarrior]

Some very useful observations there. Especially about upgrading the living quarters of the shop/house. It is something I want to look further into and all the above information has been a great help.

My intention is to have the shop part run by a thai friend and to be able to live above the shop means not having to rent / buy a seperate place.

Now I'll copy and pase the replies to my computer and keep for reference.

Thanks again

remember that the kitchen and toilet areas will be on the ground floor inless you make some major improvements...try to work that in with a functioning shop on the ground floor...

[TizMe]

remember that the kitchen and toilet areas will be on the ground floor inless you make some major improvements...try to work that in with a functioning shop on the ground floor...

We have toilets/bathrooms on all floors. I don't imagine that adding a kitchen would be too difficult.

[tutsiwarrior]

remember that the kitchen and toilet areas will be on the ground floor inless you make some major improvements...try to work that in with a functioning shop on the ground floor...

We have toilets/bathrooms on all floors. I don't imagine that adding a kitchen would be too difficult.

yeah...very possible to do but the 'as built' arrangement will have toilet and kitchen on the ground floor. In our house we got a big kitchen behind the stairs and a large bathroom/toilet above on the upper floor. Next door at mama's she has the original arrangement with the kitchen behind the stairs and the bath/toilet crammed in underneath the stairs. In the new one that we built that is attached we partitioned the area behind the stairs to have a small kitchen and a bath/toilet...a tidy arrangement.

If mains water pressure is unreliable best to note that if putting in plumbing at upper floors. Tanks, pumps, etc are available but messy...

[TizMe]

very possible to do but the 'as built' arrangement will have toilet and kitchen on the ground floor.

Our "as built" had toilet/bathroom on all floors. (not enough water pressure to reach the 3rd floor though) They have Thai toilets on ground floors under the stairs and Farang style loos on the 2nd and 3rd.

[backflip]

Shophouses come with the land attached and, with very few exceptions, a farang cannot own land in Thailand. You can form a company to own the shophouse and land.

[Nawtilus]

think you answered your own question.......but I have a question....what came first, the shophouse or the land ??

[quiksilva]

Shophouses come with the land attached and, with very few exceptions, a farang cannot own land in Thailand. You can form a company to own the shophouse and land.

The proposed changes to the FBA (Foreign Business Act) will close the company loophole (to land ownership) very shortly, unless you can prove that your Thai partner is a partner in a very real sense of the word, and even then it will not be easy.

Plus these ammendments could be applied rectroactively, so get yourself a savvy lawyer and discuss this matter with them thoroughly before leaping into any new project!

Edited January 15, 2007 by quiksilva

[tutsiwarrior]

very possible to do but the 'as built' arrangement will have toilet and kitchen on the ground floor.

Our "as built" had toilet/bathroom on all floors. (not enough water pressure to reach the 3rd floor though) They have Thai toilets on ground floors under the stairs and Farang style loos on the 2nd and 3rd.

yeah...gotta admit that I'm speaking from my own experience with just two floors...the shophouses near the center of town and by the bus station have got 3 floors. The 2 floor arrangement is designed for single family use, I believe, hence one toilet and one kitchen. A multistoried arrangement would be otherwise, I suppose...do the floors have individual entrances at your place, tiz? (common stairs but separate entrances?)

[TizMe]

No. They were all "as built" with only a single entrance through the roller door at the front and no rear entrance at all (there's a rear door, but no access to rear door from the street).

The stairs are at the rear of the building (internal) so there is no real practical way having multi occupants.

There is one owner that has installed a corridor to one side of the shop to achieve multi occupancy, but it makes the ground floor shop very small. Each floor is originally 4m x 12m but with the corridor added and stairs isolated the ground floor becomes approx 3m x 8m.

Edited January 17, 2007 by TizMe

[MaiChai]

My observation is that if you buy property that ordinary Thais live in, you can get the property for reasonable money. If you go the farang/foreigner route (ecsotic house/condo) then you will pay a 'premium'. If you stay here a long time, most likely you like the Thai way of life, so why not buy the Thai type property and integrate in a little Otherwise you will live a solitary existance (with your partner/family/farang friends) outside Thai society? Integrating in is more interesting and fun?

[Nawtilus]

It is also relative to the quality of the build hopefully.

Many thai style and particulalry older places are build cheap and nasty, whereas some of the foreigner influenced...not all...have a better quality of construction and design.

One easy example is to look at the wiring !