Fighting With Thai Men......

[John_Rambo]

Leftcross is spot on, and there are too many people proposing cowardly actions on this thread. I'm appalled at the number of people who are advocating not lifting a finger to save a small girl from being beaten to death by a vicious gang of adolescents.

Thank god that some people in this world have a bit more backbone.

As for this baloney about it always being better to wait for experts to arrive on the scene, as has been pointed out many times now, sometimes it is quite clear that that course of actions could result in the person losing there life.

If you're the one on the scene, and there's anything that you can do, then it's time to stand up and be counted. Act like a man. If you have a phone and you think the situation requires it, then of course make a quick call to the police, and then attempt an intervention. Sometimes you might not even have to get involved physically, just shouting and drawing attention to the felons may be enough to scare them away.

Edited December 1, 2006 by John_Rambo

[ColPyat]

i have been in similar situations. once i was ...

We have all be once young dumb and full of come, and oblivious to consequences.

As you said - they were your age. Ulysses is not the youngest, and him being beaten by some kids a lot younger could have easily had very bad consequences, in addition that it would have been no help to the girl in question. He is a foreigner as well, and that means that this is not his turf.

Additionally, it is more than well known here that young gang kids are more often than not armed here in Thailand, and have no qualms about using these arms (just look up in the news folder - a few days ago a gang stabbed a 14 year old kid to death because his girlfriend did not give them her phone number).

If you want to die early, than just go around and interfere in such situations. If you PM me, i can direct you to the areas of town where you can be sure to see such incidents every single night and have your brief career as hero.

[JimsKnight]

I'm with left cross on this one. If all we did was stand by and let bullies and scummy little gangs hurt people then the world would be a very dark and nasty place with cowardly people scurrying about.

Jumping in the sea to save someone is a brave and noble thing to do especially where all others had doubted him to this point. Forget professional mariners / rescuers etc. What needs doing in the flash of an eye needs to be done,

As a rescue volonteer, and once in a related field professionally, i can tell you that the biggest pain in the behind are the people who imagine themselves as doing something, but do something that is beyond their knowledge and abilities. They get in the way, and generally screw things up even worse.

No, what needs to be "in the flash of an eye" should not be just "done", but carefully analysed, and after carefully analysing the correct measure has to be taken. That is where training, experience and professionalism are important.

If you feel so strong about "bullies" and "scummy little gangs" then please, become a police officer, and receive your training. But my fear is that with your attitude you will not be accepted and end up as one of the many security guards who failed the psychological exam.

Oh don't make such pathetic insults and listen instead.

By the time 'Careful analysise etc' comes through its often too late.

Just because your a rescue worker doesn't mean you an expert in law enforcement and give you daft reasons to assume I should be.

Well the answer doesn't neccessarily lie with the police Mr rescue vol(u)onteer, if the situation calls for immediate action then it needs action! Because when you go running for mr policeman the person is still getting the living sht kicked out of them. So sometimes you need someone to use his initiative. This a recent 'thing' where it becomes a 'not my problem' walk away, walk away, stick your head in the sand.

Well Mr Rescue when someones kicking the living daylights out of you I'll be happy to 'stroll' on than try and help. I'll bring a policeman or perhaps a security guard to save the day for you. After he's done 'careful thinking' and spoken to a few rescue workers about the plan we'll no doubt return to find you're unfortunate carcass lying on the floor cause noone helped you sooner.

Policeman comes and has to deal with the mess. Yeah I wouldn't be a policeman, police deal with the sht and the bloody aftermath 9 times out of 10 and you can ask any policeman that and he will tell you this. There is no magic copper on every corner to save the day, sometimes people who are on the spot have to deal with the situation.

What I was saying was if you end up leaving it all to the 'experts' then you have it where everyone just lets the bullies rule over the weak and vunerable.

In Hua Hin, in a bar, a fight broke out, the bar manager called the police, the police took 1 HOUR to arrive from a police station only 500 meters away, in the end he had to throw them out of the bar himself. By the time the police arrived it was too late! The bar was trashed!

If you start thinking like a victim you already are one.

Get with the real world and not some black and white 'looks good on paper' beaurucratic mentality.

[John_Rambo]

Well said Jimsknight

[lannarebirth]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

With this attitude you will not find a job in any rescue service ever. As another poster has already stated here - there are clear regulations and directives in most western countries concerning those sort of actions, and here in Thailand there may be no such directives, but i have never heard any group leader advising anything else.

What you propose is the job of the police, who has the authority and the training for these situations. Not you.

I'm with left cross on this one. If all we did was stand by and let bullies and scummy little gangs hurt people then the world would be a very dark and nasty place with cowardly people scurrying about.

Jumping in the sea to save someone is a brave and noble thing to do especially where all others had doubted him to this point. Forget professional mariners / rescuers etc. What needs doing in the flash of an eye needs to be done, the opportunity of rescueship fell on Gyro and Gyro alone and he took up the mantle. It gives hope and courage to others who hear of the tale too. Its certainly better to say of someone dying trying to save anothers life than dying at the end of a boring life, in their bed!

However I don't think you can broadside Ulysees for not inteventing, his age and health alone spares him of that. Although, yeah ok maybe shouting may of had an impact on those little twts attacking the girl, but we'll never know that now will we.

I always shake my head when people talk of getting the police in or leaving it to the 'experts'. There isn't time in 90% of cases to do that! By the time those guys (or gals) get on the scene its too late! The damage is done and often the bad guys have gotten away. Even if the're caught later on they it still won't change what they've done will it!

You seemed to have missed the point. Whatever opportunity there was to rescue the poor fellow that went over the side was lost when the Darwin Award nominee "gyro" shirked his duty and decided to commit suicide by jumping off a ship steaming 20 knots away from him, in high seas, at night, in the North Atlantic. If gyro ever found the guy, he likely pulled him down to his watery grave.

[ColPyat]

Get with the real world and not some black and white 'looks good on paper' beaurucratic mentality.

Trying to ignore your misplaced flames, i can only tell you that i have to deal with similar situations in the real world on a regular base, and not just post adolescent fantasies of violence and "what would i do" scenarios on the net.

I do enjoy helping people, even if it was mostly their fault , or carelessnes to get into these situations, but i enjoy even more coming back home to my wife and my son.

[Jeff1]

You can say anything you want about me and it will not matter. The one percent would be when someone disrespects a loved one of mine.

What brand of beer is that?

Im not fussy. I love all beer.

[bkkmadness]

I wonder if Gyro jumped because of all his ship mates calling him a coward for not going out brawling at night? A tragic attempt at proving himself as brave to his peers? First thought that come to mind when I read that story.

[Boatabike]

Leftcross is spot on, and there are too many people proposing cowardly actions on this thread. I'm appalled at the number of people who are advocating not lifting a finger to save a small girl from being beaten to death by a vicious gang of adolescents.

Thank god that some people in this world have a bit more backbone.

As for this baloney about it always being better to wait for experts to arrive on the scene, as has been pointed out many times now, sometimes it is quite clear that that course of actions could result in the person losing there life.

If you're the one on the scene, and there's anything that you can do, then it's time to stand up and be counted. Act like a man. If you have a phone and you think the situation requires it, then of course make a quick call to the police, and then attempt an intervention. Sometimes you might not even have to get involved physically, just shouting and drawing attention to the felons may be enough to scare them away.

I don't think people have been advocating anything of the sort, they have simply been agreeing that an elderly man half crippled is not the person to go head on with a gang of thugs. You would jump in there, but you are not an elderly man with health issues, but you might go to the aid of an elderly man with health issues, so perhaps he should have got himself killed so that you could come to his aid? Come on nobody said you should not help a child in problems, he did what he was capable of doing, if more capable he may have done things differently but he did not walk away, he did not ignore it he acted as best he could.

Mr brave jump in the water to die, helped not at all, man overboard is dealt with in the way mariners the world over are trained to deal with it and it ain't by suicide!

[John_Rambo]

I don't think people have been advocating anything of the sort

If you read the whole thread, in particular the advice of Colpyat, you will find that not intervening in such a situation and looking after your own skin is indeed recommended, even if the probable end result is the loss of life of that child.

I know it's hard to believe what your eyes are reading at times, but it's there in black and white.

An attempt to intervene, if you are elderly and in poor health does not have to involve going head to head in a physical confrontation. Just making your presence known and shouting at them that you have called the police and they are on their way, may be enough to stop the adolescents onslaught. Of course, it might not, and you might be opening yourself up to a certain element of risk,but that's the chance you take to potentially save someones life.

[meemiathai]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

Go to iraq and stop the <removed> pain! Why the heck are u still here? What do u do on a daily basis?

If you saw someone shooting someone, what do u do?

how old r u?????????????

[meemiathai]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

you use your age as an excuse but perhaps your age would have been a help. thais respect their elders and seniority and the teenagers may have backed off.

it's not clever to use violence in the street, but you had the immediate chance to save someone from potential death and you skulked away 'to be a coward another day'

if it was a gang of men fighting then perhaps you would be justified, but a young girl????

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

one night we were in high seas near iceland and someone was washed over the side. without a thought for himself, gyro jumped into the seas to try and save him. it was suicide, but it was the bravest thing everyone who saw it said they had ever seen. that lad gave his life to try and help someone else. that is true bravery.

i'm sure the cowards among you will say 'live to be a coward another day' but the world has been shaped by people like gyro, who selflessly give their lives for another cause.

and you aren't even ashamed of telling us???????????

sorry, i am very honest, you look like a fool.

[endure]

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

When I was at sea I was that lad gyro. While everyone else went ashore drinking and fighting I went ashore and made friends. Everybody else spent the night in the local police cells while I spent my time

partying with the locals.

[Neeranam]

I tried to save a young woman getting hit by her husband repeatedly in the middle of my street. The woman then started to whack me while the guy stood back laughing his arse off.

Check out each situation carefully and go with your gut-feeling whether to intervene or not. When policemen/gangsters are involved don't even think about it if you value your life.

I'll never forget the time a taxi driver punched me in the face. I was so shocked(and drunk) that I hit him back. He then went to his car and took out a crowbar and came running towards me. I went into a low 'kung <deleted>' shouting 'haa saw', and he stopped right in front of me and turned and ran. It's all about showing no fear. When I drink I have no fear and consider myself very lucky to be alive after many confrontations with Thai men. I've been in many Bangkok hospitals with injuries.

I'm a coward and don't get involved now. I'm sure my family prefer it that way.

I've stopped fights by jumping in the middle and threatening to take them all on and other times I've been put in hospital for it. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Once I had no fear of death, but now I have so don't get involved.

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

By guessing the situation, I doubt if there's anything he could have done to prevent whatever was going to happen to the girl. Why risk your life for a 1% chance of a complete stanger who may deserve it anyway.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Neeranam

[London Crocodile]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

I agree, disgusting

[London Crocodile]

Go to iraq and stop the <removed> pain! Why the heck are u still here? What do u do on a daily basis?

If you saw someone shooting someone, what do u do?

how old r u?????????????

Go and save a chicken or something in the KFC thread.

You realy are a bore

[lamphun]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

I agree, disgusting

Well maybe understandable from someone here on a two week holiday who doesn't want to get involved in native customs, but not from someone who claims to be a long term resident.

[davidjtayler]

What you would plan to do and what actually happens in any hypothetical situation are usually 2 different things ... !

Ive been clobbered a few times helping people (and myself) in different scenarios and on assemment after the said situation have realised that any possible contingency plans I had in place went straight out of the window when the poo actually hit the fan....

Its very difficult to predict how one reacts to a given situation but I know from experience that I do react without thinking and this is impossible to control ... its a powerful thing instinct.

Its also reassuring to think that there may be a Rambo or a Lefty around if I get myself in a spot of bother and need a hand....

Possibly as you get older and less healthy (and slower) your reactions and instincts slow also and basic common sense overides your instinct ... I think its a tad unfair to chatsize Mr G without being in his shoes (without actually being him) ...

Note .. the majority of situations that I have reacted instinctively to have not involved alcohol on my part ...

[London Crocodile]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

I agree, disgusting

Well maybe understandable from someone here on a two week holiday who doesn't want to get involved in native customs, but not from someone who claims to be a long term resident.

Sorry lamphun, if you don't think not going to the aid of a small girl being beaten to death is disgusting.

What has the length of stay in Thailand got to do with anything?

Don't tell me you are another board member who seems to think Thai people hold some supernatural power where if they are challenged for any reason you are doomed to the black waters of some klong.

Between the Colnol Pyat coming to the aid of victims of the militia fighting the cival war in the industrial belt of Bangkok, the posters on here who would let people walk over them like a door mat so long as it avoids confontation and the people who say dont get involved if it's not your business i realy am at a loss what to think. I realy hope this is not an indicator of the type of foreigner living here, i think half of you are scared of your own shadows.

If i saw a young girl being beaten to death by a group of other 'boys and girls' i would get involved, place and time mean nothing and guess what, IT IS MY BUSINESS, it's your duty to the community and a small defensless girl, anyone who would not take on the responsibility through fear of getting hurt is a coward.

[ColPyat]

If i saw a young girl being beaten to death by a group of other 'boys and girls' i would get involved, place and time mean nothing and guess what, IT IS MY BUSINESS, it's your duty to the community and a small defensless girl, anyone who would not take on the responsibility through fear of getting hurt is a coward.

I believe there are countless police volonteer organisations here in Thailand, such as the "Damluat Chao Ban". Instead of posting all the 'what-if' scenarios here on an internet board you should then better think about volonteering, and doing "your duty to the community". If you PM me, i can give you details whom to approach.

[ColPyat]

And to add, another very real danger scenario in fighting here in Thailand is AIDS. Thailand has a very high infection rate, while fighting you do come generally in direct contact with blood of your opponent, that might easily lead to a transmission when for example you bust your knuckles on your opponent's teeth, or he on yours.

Edited December 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[Grover]

And to add, another very real danger scenario in fighting here in Thailand is AIDS. Thailand has a very high infection rate, while fighting you do come generally in direct contact with blood of your opponent, that might easily lead to a transmission when for example you bust your knuckles on your opponent's teeth.

ok, so now you are trying to tell us a tooth has aids ? huh?

[ColPyat]

And to add, another very real danger scenario in fighting here in Thailand is AIDS. Thailand has a very high infection rate, while fighting you do come generally in direct contact with blood of your opponent, that might easily lead to a transmission when for example you bust your knuckles on your opponent's teeth.

ok, so now you are trying to tell us a tooth has aids ? huh?

No, but the usually accompanying busted lip bleeds, and a busted knuckle bleeds as well. Simple - two open and bleeding sores come to contact with each other, and a transmission is possible.

[Grover]

ok.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Grover

[Mid]

And to add, another very real danger scenario in fighting here in Thailand is AIDS. Thailand has a very high infection rate, while fighting you do come generally in direct contact with blood of your opponent, that might easily lead to a transmission when for example you bust your knuckles on your opponent's teeth, or he on yours.

there you go again ...............

you don't catch AIDS ,

you become HIV positive ,

you can not catch AIDS ,

though you had some knowledge of this ?

****** flame deleted ******* , just to save the mod's the trouble

[ColPyat]

And to add, another very real danger scenario in fighting here in Thailand is AIDS. Thailand has a very high infection rate, while fighting you do come generally in direct contact with blood of your opponent, that might easily lead to a transmission when for example you bust your knuckles on your opponent's teeth, or he on yours.

there you go again ...............

you don't catch AIDS ,

you become HIV positive ,

you can not catch AIDS ,

though you had some knowledge of this ?

****** flame deleted ******* , just to save the mod's the trouble

Semantics.

HIV infection leads to AIDS if not caught in time and managed with antiretrovirals, unless you believe in the AIDS myth conspiracy theories.

So, yes, you are right, one runs the risk of HIV infection that will lead to AIDS. Happy?

Edited December 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[Mid]

Semantics.

HIV infection leads inevitably to AIDS, unless you believe in the AIDS myth conspiracy theories.

So, yes, you are right, one runs the risk of HIV infection that will lead to AIDS. Happy?

NO ,

there is no guarantee that being HIV positive ,

will lead to AIDS ............

of course the probability is high ,

for one who is advocating greater understanding ,

but then your own worlds were that you would rather be ..................

***** flame deleted *******

[Robski]

Its also reassuring to think that there may be a Rambo or a Lefty around if I get myself in a spot of bother and need a hand....

Let's hope you're not around when Leftcross and his goons come ashore looking for a fight, hardly a role model is he?

I realy hope this is not an indicator of the type of foreigner living here, i think half of you are scared of your own shadows.

Yes I guess that's why most of us have travelled half way around the world to live in a foreign country, because we're scared of our own shadows.

It's funny really LC that you have to pick a fight and then accuse other members of being unreasonable, simply because they don't agree with your viewpoint, and leftcross is the same.

When you read between the lines of your posts you come accross as unintelligent, judgemental and quick to anger, not a good combination really.

I haven't had any problems with Thai's, but I've had a few run ins with foreigners who think that they are hard as nails, but who are really just arrogant and unreasonable.

As for Rambo, well he's a fictional character in real life and full of macho gung-ho bs, so why would anyone take seriously anything he has to say, I mean if you think about it he's got troll written all over him, but the comic irony of it all is that he really does take himself seriously.

I expect you to condemn me for this post, probably call me one of those spineless jellyfish thingies, but what the hel_l you're just acting like a bunch of meatheads.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Robski

[Mid]

pity you couldn't edit fast enough kernal ...........

[ColPyat]

pity you couldn't edit fast enough kernal ...........

I am getting very tired of your attitude. I have edited my post to clarify my statement, and if you look at the time - before you posted your reply. Point is, i would suggest you do the same, and leave your constant provocations somewhere else.

I do not enjoy being stalked by yet another poster again with an unhealthy fixation on me.

Can we get back to the topic please, which is "fighting" i presume, and that does not mean between you and me.

Edited December 2, 2006 by ColPyat